Board of Selectmen Meeting

Speakers are labeled SPEAKER_N. This transcript is machine-generated.

Recording

I was wondering why the parking lot was so empty.
We can pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
I'll make a motion to accept the minutes of January 28th.
Do I have a second?
Second.
All in favor?
Aye.
Aye.
I'll make a motion to accept the minutes of February 2nd.
Do I have a second?
Second.
All in favor?
Aye.
Aye.
Make a motion to authorize the selectmen to sign the manifest and to order the treasurer to sign payroll.
Do you usually read all of that?
No.
Do I have a second?
Second.
All in favor?
Aye.
Aye.
It's usually accept the consent, accept the manifest.
Oh, sorry.
Okay.
Quality control.
Do I need it?
I don't know which one.
Oh, did I miss one?
Oh.
Thank you.
No problem.
Quality control.
Thank you.
So, let's just have you sneak this in, too.
This isn't on there, but you've already signed this.
This is the assessing with one.
because when Swansea was in here, the name Swansea was in here, so it's very fine.
We need sunglasses, that's why we find it.
It's underneath the yellow.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The treasurer position is up this year, and it reverts to being an appointed position instead of an elected position.
Our current treasurer is not going to stay on.
He's retiring.
So in order for the board to appoint someone, I wanted to make sure I knew what process you wanted to take.
I would recommend that we put out a request of interest.
We do have a deputy treasurer.
I think maybe the board should see if she's interested and speak with her, and then if she's interested in that, she's been a deputy for at least six years, I would think.
And then maybe appoint a deputy, but I wanted to find out what the board thought and how you wanted to.
We need to type something up, because there is the RSA that states what their duties are, but we want to make sure that we're able to meet with interested parties and talk about it and interview them and then do a background check, because that's one thing we couldn't do as an elected position.
But when somebody has access to that kind of money, you want to make sure that we're covered.
Yeah, I think we need to put it out there.
Yeah.
So we've got to put it out there.
Yeah.
And if she wants to apply, she can.
Yeah, I'm going to approach her with her interest, and I think that where she's been a deputy for a while.
As long as she realizes that some of the duties are going to change.
Right.
Right.
And they're going to have to have access to the computer, correct?
Isn't that how the statement is reconciled?
I have to sit with Laura Lee and Diane, but I think that if they're supplying printouts, because then they reconcile with Laura Lee and Diane.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know how it works.
Yeah.
I thought we always, you know, computer.
Yeah.
Something, yeah, if you could check that out.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm going to be meeting.
We're going to sit down together and pull all that together.
And then.
Okay.
So, okay.
Okay.
And then I just wanted to, before we get into the main part of the meeting and talk about a couple of the Warren articles that the board was, wasn't sure.
He wanted to see where the numbers fell.
The last time we met, the last time we met, I wasn't sure how we were going to do the financing of the heavy rescue.
And that's one word I had to change in article 20.
I have heavy equipment, but I should say heavy rescue.
But when we get to that article, I'll point that out to everyone here.
It's just, it's heavy rescue and slash pumper truck versus heavy equipment slash pumper truck.
But I did speak with the finance company, which I should have just called them to begin with.
Because I'm thinking, I, in my mind, I'm complicated.
I complicated things because I knew the department of revenue is very specific on things we can do.
But we're, you know, without a title, how is a finance company going to pay for something up front?
So I spoke with him and he goes, oh, we have to do that all the time now because this is a norm when you build big pieces of equipment.
It takes a couple of years to even get it.
Which we've, that's happened with our ambulance, but we've had that money in the Captain Reserve Fund for ambulances.
So what happens is they will prepay the vehicle, which will save us $70,000 or $80,000 because we're prepaying it.
And they will require the company to put up a performance bond, which guarantees delivery of this vehicle because they're prepaying it.
And we would start the payments right away.
So we're paying on the loan.
So by the time we get it, we've already had two or three payments.
But we're saving money for prepaying it, and we have a performance bond that requires them to make delivery.
And it's not a fly-by-night company by any means.
I mean, this is a company that does this type of equipment nationwide.
What's Santa's right there, John?
I think it's 5.29.
I'm assuming that's fixed for 10 years?
Yes.
Yeah.
And that's the same interest rate that we have for the sidewalk cloud.
So those were the two.
I wasn't sure if you wanted to just leave them in and see where things land, if you wanted to talk about taking them out.
So the numbers, you saw the numbers with them in, correct?
Mm-hmm.
Here's.
So about 1% of that changed in the budget.
I mean, that doesn't give you the estimated tax rate yet.
I need to figure that with the revenue.
I have to estimate the revenues in there.
That's with both of them in.
Oh.
So about 1% of that, maybe a little more than 1%, is that extra payroll week.
Yep.
So if it wasn't that, it'd be, if it wasn't for that extra payroll.
It'd be about 4.75.
No, I'm talking about the first page.
Oh, 2%.
2%, yeah.
See, I think 5.75 is too high.
I just think we're asking too much.
Because, I mean, if this was a normal tax year, I'd say, well, maybe.
But, I mean, we just got hammered.
The bucket of people got hammered on their tax rates.
It's just, this is just a lot to have.
I mean, we're not on a tax rate.
And I guess I, but the valuations is what you mean.
I mean, the valuations went up.
But the bottom line is, because most of us paid $800 to $800 more than we did.
Yes, we do.
Yes, we did.
I don't understand the bottom line discussion, because we've worked really hard at keeping that level on the town side.
But I also would like the board to consider having a discussion on the merits of each piece of equipment.
You know, is it needed?
Do you feel it's needed?
Do you feel it's necessary?
And is delaying it one or two years going to change that?
And what is that going to do in one or two years?
But that's a different question.
I have no doubt that we need the equipment.
Okay?
It's a question of when to get it.
Right.
Okay, and we're not operating in a vacuum.
I mean, there are things happening in the town, like the tax thing, and we have to take that into account.
I mean, based on the numbers that I have, let me hold on, hold on, hold on a second.
The number of properties where the taxes increase because of the re-evaluation is, based on the numbers that I have,
it was 2,637 people, or houses, or properties were affected negatively because their payments,
they owed much more than what they did prior.
And 1,191 went down.
So that tells me that the vast majority of the people in town were affected negatively by this re-evaluation.
Wait a minute, wait a minute, say that again.
2,637 people.
Right.
Their taxes went up because of the re-evaluation.
Irregardless of what the budget was between last year and this year.
And it did go up because of that as well.
But, 2,637 went up because of the re-evaluation.
And 1,191 went down.
Okay.
And how many pieces do we have in all?
Well, we had the two, so it would be almost...
No, because some people stayed the same.
Right?
Or they didn't.
Well, stayed the same, I would count as going down.
Oh, you counted it as going down?
I counted anything that didn't go up.
So if they stayed the same or they went down, I grouped it as not being affected by the re-evaluation.
So you said regardless of the budget, so did you figure what the tax rate would have been on the old valuation and what their taxes would be?
Yes, I did.
I didn't do it on all the houses because it was a fairly complicated valuation.
But I did do it on one house and the house was valued at...
The new valuation was $275,000.
The old valuation was $148,000.
Okay?
And the taxes went up just from spending.
$397.
So what tax rate did you use for the old?
Whatever the old was, that's what I used.
Okay.
Okay?
Because I had a spreadsheet from you that had all the old information, then I had a spreadsheet that I had all the new information.
So with the 2025 budget, so you were using...
No, because I would have estimated a higher valuation.
So it would have to be the 2025 budget based on the old valuation to get the new tax rate.
So if you used the 2024 tax rate and compared it to the 2025...
That's exactly what I did.
So that would not be accurate because you'd have to figure what the new 2025...
What you'd have to do is take your 2025 assessed valuation...
times the old times the old times the new...
I did that.
No, so you'd have to...
You'd have to...
I have a spreadsheet that I could just plug the numbers in, but I don't know.
The 2025 is...
The 2025 was the one that we just got.
Right, but in order to check to see what they would have gone up if we didn't have the reval...
Right.
You would have to refigure what the 2025 tax rate would be without the reval.
I did.
But you said you used the 2024 tax rate.
2024...
That was before.
No, but that's based on the 2024 budget, not the 2024 budget.
But I took the 2025 budget and I applied that to the 2024 tax rate.
Okay.
To see what our taxes would have been.
Oh, okay.
Okay?
So it wasn't just...
Those taxes would have gone up almost $400.
Okay.
That was, it turns out, for this particular house, the taxes went up $857.
Okay?
Which means that $460, that increase was due to the re-evaluation.
Yes, yes.
Okay.
When you said you were using the 2024 tax rate, we're looking at it.
Anyway, so...
Anyway, I just think that it's going to be a hard sell.
Another thing you could do is see who's here tonight and see, you know, have the discussions on those.
We haven't discussed it and then we can only take it out after.
Yeah, I don't have any problem.
I mean, but, I mean, right now we have the sidewalk plow
and the fire department for the equipment.
Right.
And both.
I think...
I'd like to see what people...
I agree with you now.
I'd like to see what they have to say about it after tonight.
I'd like to hear the input from tonight and then we can talk about it after the meeting or we can talk about it next week when Jim's here.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's fine.
I mean, we don't have to make a final decision tonight.
No.
We can just say, this is what we're presenting.
Presenting.
Okay.
We've had discussions about this and we...
We're waiting to see what...
Right.
Yeah.
How the public feels.
Yeah.
We can present it and see what happens.
That works too and then that helps to...
I mean, if there's three people here, then that's a little bit...
Then that's not going to help very much.
Yeah.
We'll have more interest.
So, yeah.
Are you in agreement to take the $10,000 out for Conservation Commission?
Yeah.
I don't have any problem with that.
I don't have any problem with that.
They said they have so much money in there.
$279.
That's a lot of money.
Yeah, $272 or something like that.
Yeah.
And...
Where Shea had asked for $3,500 for Shea, I'd like to make it $4.
I mean, if he's calculating that the number of hours he uses to do their work comes up to $4,000,
why are we paying him $35,000?
But he's the one who's leaving.
Well, he's not going to leave.
He'll stay.
He'll stay if we increase the...
Yes.
So, he does the trustee of trust funds.
Trustee of trust funds.
That's what he does.
Okay.
Yeah, I...
I'd like to make it $4.
We're going to pay him a fair wage.
Yeah.
If he says...
So, that's in the budget already.
Right.
The $4,000?
I added $3,500.
She added $3,500.
We were already paying him.
So, we're just going to increase it by two.
She's got enough in the budget.
So, you're going to increase it by $500?
No.
We'll pay him $4,000, which is already in the budget.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
That's fine.
Just so you know that.
Yeah.
So, I told you about the $15,000 I added in for Wentz-Wollen-Mill.
Mm-hmm.
That is already in these numbers.
Okay.
I'm not sure.
It looks like we're going to be short on that.
So, I made sure that was in there.
Okay.
The Warren article for the sidewalk project.
It has been a little frustrating trying to get nailed down exactly what it is we need to
make sure we've got put aside because there's like $107,000 in unknowns that would be 100% on the town.
So, it may be that we don't spend that money, but if we don't have it and we need it, and that
has to do with the existing water and sewer lines.
How deep are they?
We're assuming they're this deep, but if they're deeper, and that's not something that's covered by the
state under this LPA Monday.
So, I'm hoping we have more than we need in there.
That is taken into consideration that we are going to use what's in the sidewalk capital reserve fund.
The sidewalk capital reserve fund is something that is going to be taken out of if we need that money.
Right now, I'm figuring that we do need that money, but if we have some expenses that we don't have to pay, we'll leave that money in the capital reserve fund.
But we have, we just got the number for the construction engineer, and the engineer we've had that has done the design and everything, they stay on for a little while, so that's a little cost as well.
But all this coming in is like, okay, I need this piece, I need that piece, look at all the money that we've taken in, and I think we're good.
So, we have the money, we have that $225,000.
That's in that, oh, that's New Hampshire.
That's New Hampshire, okay.
That's the gap from Hillsborough.
The same with the Whittemore project, we have that $400,000.
Yeah, I mean, it's not a tax impact, but.
So, the, those columns that we have on this page right here, the $726,106, is that, is that net of the money that the revenue, the money that we have for the sidewalk and Whittemore, or is that after?
Because I didn't bother adding them up.
It seems that it would be.
So, the $639,237 is taking everything into consideration.
So, it's taking the, you see below the offsetting revenues?
Okay, so that's.
So, that's the $775, that's in that second column.
Okay.
Yeah.
So, it's going to cost us an extra $639,000 from last year.
That's with everything.
That's operating budget and this capital budget, page 1 and 2.
Why, why, why are we adding the Whittemore and the sidewalk project into this amount when they're going to be offset?
Because, because the offsetting amount is right here in the calculation.
So, then it.
Do you see that $775,000 under offsetting revenues?
Yes.
Right.
So, it's here.
So, this is added in here and then we take it away.
Oh, you took it out here.
Okay.
Yeah.
Oh, oh, oh, oh, okay.
Move it.
Yeah.
Six, seven, seven, seven, five.
Yeah, but it's not $775, it's only $675,000.
No, it's $400,000, $225,000 and $150,000, which is offsetting the capital reserve.
Oh, you're taking it.
Oh, that's right.
Because there was another article, you were taking $150,000 out of capital reserve.
Okay.
All right.
So, all the articles are only going to cost us $729,000, not the $775,000.
Oh, that doesn't include the honorary.
Right.
Not the $15,000.
So, if you look at the capital, the 2025, 2026 less 2025, that's that $639,000.
That's the net.
Right.
What I'm saying is your articles of equally $1,504,000 of that $775,000 that's coming out
of other places.
Right.
So, the total for the articles is actually $729,000.
Right.
And we don't, I don't have this for everyone because this is going to change.
Yes.
This does go in the town report?
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
All right.
So, if we approved everything on here, our budget would go up.
Either the money money that we need would go up by 5.75 percent.
So, what I'll do, if we have a work session next week so that you can make that decision, that's
okay, then I'll have that estimated tax rate.
Can I, can we talk about one other thing on this list?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
The grant of BNA.
Yeah.
If, if the citizen wants to have a warrant out call, they need 25 signatures.
We did not require the grant of BNA to get any signatures.
So, anyone can come to the board and request a warrant article we put on.
It's up to the board what, I mean, usually when health services, initially, we do a separate
warrant article if the board agrees to that.
We've done that for St. Joseph, which is Meals on Wheels.
We've done that for Grapevine.
And then they end up getting put in the budget after.
Okay.
So, this is, we're not setting a precedent by doing that.
No.
No, no.
We've done this in the past.
Yes.
Right.
But technically, a citizen or a group can come before the board and request to have something
on the warrant.
Without the 25 signatures.
If the board does not agree with it, then their option is to have a petition warrant article.
Okay.
Okay.
Is it snowing?
Yes.
It is?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is it snowing?
Yeah.
Okay.
I just, I thought about that after our meeting, that we just agreed.
Someone else asked me that, too.
What?
Someone else asked me.
Because Meals on Wheels and Grapevine are in the budget now, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
See, they're in the budget after, so, after years of asking.
Well, I got it.
Asking.
Yeah.
Well, one time.
I think one time.
Meals on Wheels has been in, that has been for a long time.
Grapevine.
I think this is the first time visiting nurses have asked me.
Now, they've submitted things before.
And part of that is when we were doing it, and they would submit it so early, it would get
lost in the shuffle on me with that.
But, um, it's, uh, this year, they, they, they were emailing me to keep in front of me.
That's a good thing.
Okay.
But they do have a couple of their employees that live in town that will be at town meeting
and talk to that answer.
From the BNA?
Yeah.
Okay.
No, it seemed like a good idea, and it still, but I just wondered about the president because,
you know, like I asked earlier, a citizen needs 25.
They don't, but.
Right, right.
They do, you know.
Because this is charitable, it's different.
Well, it's, you know, had you said that we,
you didn't, then I would let them know that they could get a petition article.
Yeah, okay.
So.
Okay.
The, um.
So tonight, oh, so the other thing is the, um, elderly exemption.
Yeah, I saw your.
So I have, I have a printout that I referred to based on what other towns do.
And some, oops, I don't have a printout that I've got the wrong sheet.
Um, so I, I took it kind of in the middle, but one of the things that we hear often enough
is that, you know, I don't have kids in school anymore.
And, and everyone, you know, when, when you did have kids, there were other people who were
paying who didn't have kids as well.
But, um, but, um, but they've got to qualify financially before they even get that assessment,
which we already have that, um, exemption.
If this is just bringing those up, we haven't done that since 2017.
We haven't made any changes.
And with cost of living going up, valuations going up, this, if they qualify financially,
it gives them...
Yeah, and you can really rate the qualifications very high.
No, I wanted it to...
$6,000, $3,000.
Um, and that...
$11,000 for the assets.
Yeah.
How much, how much of an exemption will they get?
$69.
It goes...
So, there's three different...
It goes from $34 to $69.
Okay, so...
$51 to $103,000 and then whatever that other number, $9,000.
There's some that do $200,000 and some like that.
Well, yeah, there's some that say anyone over $80,000 is free.
Can you imagine Dick Whittington with a $3,000?
Yeah.
Well, and that's why, you know, the asset and the income qualifications are important because...
How many people right now qualify for this?
Do we know?
So, we don't have any idea what this is going to cost us.
We do know...
I don't have it with me.
I apologize for that.
We can run a report on that.
Yeah.
Very easy.
It's the same thing with the veterans.
You know, once that changed to the all veterans versus...
having to be in more time, that went up.
The people who qualified went up.
But that was on the state level that it...
It's included.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can I change the subject?
How are we doing with the Water and Sewer office?
So, the guy from Sewer...
Do you know about that?
No, what about...
We had a...
They had a...
Piper for us at the Water and Sewer office.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Down just down at the corner?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Church?
Yeah.
And it was a heating pipe, so it was all hot water.
Oh.
So, pennies moved all their stuff.
I didn't know about that.
Yeah, this happened.
That's our building.
Yeah.
So, we're responsible for that?
Well, hopefully insurance will cover something.
Right.
So, it's an insurance claim, and I think that...
That's really up to the board is who pays the difference if they're...
I mean, it may just be $1,000 that it's covered by insurance.
So, the insurance company went in last week.
Oh, okay.
Jerry, the guy from ServPro, Jeremy couldn't get in touch with them, so they contacted the
supervisor, and they signed someone else, so Jeremy's meeting with them tomorrow.
Okay.
Because I went and saw Penny yesterday, and she called me because she's got bills to send
out.
She asked me to come talk to her, and I noticed her truck was there, but I had noticed it wasn't
there a lot.
Yeah.
So, I thought maybe it was her husband, because I know he had just had surgery.
So, and then I saw that her path wasn't...
I was going to go up the ramp, but it wasn't plopped, so I knocked on the door, and she let
me in, and I went, oh my God, her whole office has moved to the other side of the building.
Is that because of the cold?
It was...
I didn't realize it was a...
Jeremy called me the day I was on my guest.
Hello.
But, I didn't realize it was a heating pipe.
I don't understand how a heating pipe freezes.
So, it couldn't have been a freeze.
It had to have been a burst.
Well, it did.
It burst, but...
But not because it's frozen.
Well, she said that...
She said that she thinks the door at the top of the fire escape, that metal fire escape
on the side had been left open a little bit.
Who uses that?
Robin should be using that.
She shovels it.
I don't know.
I have no idea.
Somehow, it got cold, because it was all on that side of the building, because when she
came to go to work, she could see the ice around the door.
So, it was all near that door.
Now, down her downstairs door.
Right.
I don't...
I don't know.
It was speculation as to what happened.
But, for a pipe that has hot water running through it...
I know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know how it burst.
I have no idea.
Maybe it was weak in a burst.
I don't know.
Yeah.
So, they turned out the heat at night?
If they turned the heat down, then it's possible that it got so cold, especially if a door
was left ajar in a draft.
It was windy.
You would think that if the door, if it was from the pull there coming in, the heat would
tip on.
I don't know.
Even if it is straight.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Well, it depends on the way the thermostat is.
The thermostat is almost downstairs and the pipe is up.
Yeah, that's true.
It's possible.
I mean...
We'll get to the bottom of that.
Thank you.
And before Nick comes on...
Tommy, what is that?
Wee!
Hi, Gary.
Okay, that's looking down.
That's the room.
Right.
Yep.
Oh, that's neat.
I like that.
Hello, Mr. Taylor.
How are we doing?
I'm good.
How are you?
Our best time of the year, right?
Yeah, that's nice.
You want to live there.
That is nice.
Yeah, I like the sky.
I like that.
But...
She didn't find when it was what circa that was, but...
What, what?
Circa.
What year.
Oh, yeah.
You have to explain what circa means.
All right.
So do you want Nick to start with you?
Sure.
So...
Come on up.
Rich, this is Nick.
Okay.
So Nick is here to talk about the process and what they were going through and to find
out what the board is looking for, you know...
Values have doubled.
You know, it's all due to these sales.
We basically use the sales verification process.
So we...
Every year we equalize.
And in the old days, we've got below 85%.
The state required, asked you to redo a reval, but because it's just been so awful.
So now when we're going in, everybody's values are doubling.
I know there are some inconsistencies with some people that came into the hearings.
Well, why does my neighbor go up this much and I only went up this much?
And that...
I've asked that myself many times.
Not really gotten a straight answer because literally what we do is we go in and we reset
the square foot price.
And then when that comes up, and then we use an extraction method to get the land value.
You know, an example, all the new houses on Old Mill, they're selling for $500,000.
Well, if the houses are worth $350,000, where's the rest of the values in the land?
So that's kind of where those numbers come from.
Yeah, because up there, the land topography per lot, even the wetness is a lot different.
Yeah.
You know, it is slightly different.
And I've got a few abatements going now after this revalued neighbor.
It's curious to why, you know, his base rate is 118 and his neighbor's is 112.
So, Norm Bernays has taken over to oversee all this.
And we've already come...
We've already found some inconsistencies in that that we're going to go through.
Because literally, you should be, you know, your neighbor and you, especially those houses
are all pretty much identical.
You should be all within, you know, minus a finished basement or, you know, something like
that.
We should all be within a reasonable number of each other, you know.
And I know with some of the older houses in town, some of those numbers have skewed.
You'll see one house, you know, went up 78% and the other one up 58%.
And again, I would ask Dave about that and he never really gave me much of a straight answer.
So, I'm hoping that next time, not next time, but at some point, Norm can come in.
Norm's been doing this for 30 years, very well respected in the state.
And he can maybe, especially once he gets a chance to go into the system, he can pick
out maybe some of the reasons why these changes don't seem to, some of them don't seem to add
out, you know.
And it doesn't mean that they're incorrect.
It's just to be able to, because we did change and we are not working with Marisot anymore,
we are not reverting to him for this.
Norm will be, I scheduled this with Nick just to get in front of the board so that he can hear
what your questions are.
I know I told him that a lot of percentages were being thrown around, which is difficult,
because percentages, unless they're identical houses, like Old Mill Road,
this is new development, newer development.
So that's a lot easier to see where that inconsistency is, unless there is value in the lands,
because some of that is wet, or if there's different design or quality in those.
But some of the properties that have been talked about have a couple of the meetings,
the differences in percentages are established properties that have been there for a very long
time, and that takes more of a, to be able to explain that.
So Norm, when I set this up, Norm is, he's up north this week, but he said if there's questions
that the board has that Nick can't answer, then he would, we'll set up another meeting, or if you want to have a meeting that has some residents, we ask residents for questions, but they did meet with Nick, and you've had a couple of weeks since you came on board as our employee.
Yeah, well, the thing about being, I'm in there a couple of days a week now, and, you know, kind of, I'm trying to be very transparent with the taxpayers, you know, just to save everybody and try to explain it to them, the process, and I think it's, you know, it's working better that they can come in and get, and Diane does, it does a good job.
Yeah.
But sometimes it's nice to have someone else to, you know, to do this.
Yeah.
So Nick, that's 20 hours a week.
Oh, yeah.
When I looked at my assessed value, I couldn't understand why it went up so much, I'll be honest.
I just did not, didn't have a clue.
So I went, I got a spreadsheet, two spreadsheets from Laura, one from 2024 that has the old valuations, and then 2025 that had the new valuations.
I created a key for both spreadsheets so that I could match them both up, and then I tied them both together so I was able to compare the numbers and how they went up.
And then looking at the maps of Hillsborough, I could look at different regions to see how, what was happening within the regions.
And it seemed that the older houses, okay, in town and across the river got hit disproportionately higher than other regions.
For instance, you know, you have the Jefferson Drive, for instance.
You know, I was looking at stuff there, and it was like, okay, they went up 50%, 60% maybe.
But the overall value of the town went up 71%, okay, which means that if my value stayed, went up 71%, this re-evaluation would not have affected me at all.
But if my value went below 71%, it means that if my value went up 71%, it means that I actually have less of a property tax bill after the re-evaluation than before.
But if it was higher, then my bill went up, okay?
Simple math, okay?
And so then I started, again, the older districts of Hillsborough were 80%, 90% increases, okay?
And, again, I looked at Jefferson Drive.
I looked at Union Street across.
I looked at Bible Hill.
I looked at Emerald Lake.
I looked at the Loon Pond area, and consistently the older houses were getting clobbered.
I mean, they were just going up a lot, you know?
And then I looked at my neighbors, and I could see that, okay, like, there's a house next door to me that's almost, it's actually bigger than me.
So, they have a garage, they have, it's a full two-story house, same amount of rooms, one and a half baths, one has a tenth of an acre, the other house has three-tenths of an acre with a garage.
And the one with the, the bigger house is three-tenths of an acre with a garage, and the property value is actually lower.
And I just scratched my head saying, you know, and I'm hearing from other people in town that have the same issue.
And that house, do they all go up a certain percentage?
Because it doesn't appear that way.
They're all over the place.
And it just doesn't make sense to me on how this, and in a lot of people, it just, you know, I've heard complaints from other people as well.
No, and I do understand that, and that's, it's always kind of baffled me, and I did ask Dave about it multiple times, because I said, because you go in and you take $120, you know, dollars a square foot, you raise it to $160.
And so literally, if you do that at every house, you know, then it, that it all should go, it should go the same way.
And, and of course, you know, the tax rate's never going to, in a perfect world, if you go up 70% tax rate drop, I mean, fortunately, the town did drop considerably.
We did Hinsdale a few years ago, very similar town.
They went from 34 to 29, trusting people wanted to kill us, because then their tax, I would roll up people's houses, my taxes went up $2,500, you know.
And, you know, I was on the side of the car, there's a condition back just for the land, and there's neighborhood codes for the lands.
And that's what, that's what Norm and I have already discovered.
Some of those are very, especially in, you know, Farm Road, that they're inconsistent.
So, that's another thing that I need to look into and try to figure out why.
I just even had a woman higher than that neighborhood of yours.
That I don't know.
Yeah, see, and that's one, just off, you know, West Main Street, and in the neighborhoods you're talking about, Church Street and stuff.
And there was all, and a lot of sales in the ELBD, too, which is what really drove that land value and stuff there.
But there's people like, I got a quarter acre lot, and it's worth $280,000, you know, how is that?
And, again, it's all driven by these sales on people.
And I just, Deb just told me she saw one on Old Mill Farm Road, they're trying to sell for $900,000 now, whether they get it or not.
I mean, it's just.
But if you do that, if you look at the land price in Hillsboro, in Church Street, for instance, okay?
Like, I have one-tenth of an acre, okay?
And it's valued at $79,000, okay?
Which means that if I had a full acre, it would be worth almost a million dollars.
See, that's.
That's a Manhattan price.
That's not.
And improved law is an improved law, whether it's a tenth of an acre or three-quarters of an acre.
Or, in other parts of town, they've got a two-acre or three-acre minimum.
The improved law is the improved law.
And I had a guy come in and say, my house, my land's worth $400,000.
No, it's $80,000 on a quarter acre.
And I said, well, that's actually $20,000.
But that's not how you look at it.
Because once a lot is improved, which means there's a building on it, you know, and all that, it doesn't matter the size of it, okay?
So you can't do it that.
But how can you, if you have a one-tenth of an acre house, a one-tenth of an acre property, versus a three-tenth of an acre property, they're both improved.
The difference is only $1,500?
Yeah, if you're neighbors, they should be the same, you know, really, because the lot is the lot, okay?
And that's what I'm saying.
It doesn't matter the size of it.
And I know that that...
But how can that be, that a three-tenth of an acre lot and a one-tenth of an acre lot?
And I've looked at other areas, other houses on Church Street and Myrtle Street.
And, you know, because, like I said, I have the whole thing in front of me.
So I can look, and it's like, it just, to me, it doesn't make sense that a three-tenth of an acre lot versus a one-tenth of an acre lot, the price is only $1,500.
That, to me, maybe I, maybe I'm, but to me, it just doesn't make sense.
Right.
But the other thing that I found, and that I don't understand, is that the higher property-valued parcels of land in town did not go up proportionally than the smaller residents.
I'll give you examples.
Eversource, they're probably the biggest owner of land in Hillsborough, the town.
Their value went up from $37.8 to $40 million, a $5.8 increase, which means that taxes actually went down.
You get, like, Osram.
Again, this makes no sense to me.
Osram was valued at $1.9 million, and it went to $13 million.
$585 percent increase.
We're right across the street.
We have Shaw's.
They went $7.9 to $8.8, which is only a 10 percent increase.
It just, somebody, one of the taxpayers says, it's like they took a dartboard and just threw darts at these properties.
And just, you know, like, Aubuchons in town, they had a 14 percent increase.
A Chile, now it's not a Chile anymore.
It's another one, but another company.
They only went up by 44 percent.
No, I do understand what you're saying.
It's like.
And if it was only a couple percent either way, I would understand.
But, yeah, I see what you're saying.
But the utility thing is different because that's recalculated every year.
There's this whole set of rules with that with the state.
So that we couldn't really touch.
But the fact that Osram went up that much.
Shaw's, of course, fights every single year their value.
They do in every town.
They got the amount of spoilers.
But the fact that, you know, that Osram went, you said it went from 1.9 to 13.1.
Yeah.
I mean, that doesn't make any sense.
That's a huge increase.
1.9 only to 13.1.
Yeah.
Oh, God.
Unless I matched two different things.
Well, I'll look at that and it's like, if that doesn't, I mean, if that was the case,
I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't show up.
But anyway, those are just examples that I found that were just inconsistent.
And, you know, what I tried to do is once I could see that all these things,
I started looking at the higher valued properties to see how they were affected.
And it appears that for the most part, the higher affected properties were not as affected
by this re-evaluation as the little mom and Joe or the little mom and pop.
Well, they did bring the USPAD book.
And then there's a part of when we do the ratio called PRD.
It's price ratio differential.
And it should say the difference between the higher value and the lower value.
And there's a certain number that has to be hit on that.
So I started going through that today, but I didn't look at those numbers.
So I'll look at that PRD on those as well.
And going back to the land, so at some point, land, it's the base.
Some is two acres in town.
But they give a value to what that two acres is in.
And then beyond that, it's not every two acres that's value.
No.
Because you can't subdivide those lots.
So if you have three quarters of an acre versus a quarter, there's not the value that's not there for that other.
But I definitely will get on this and hopefully we can get just some clearer answers.
And I'm not, again, it's baffled me for five years, ten years.
And sometimes they would say, oh, maybe they were undervalued before, but that's what I'm saying.
I'm going to look back and say here's and see what your neighbor was and what you were or other ones where I see a disproportionate increase over one over the other
and see, well, was it already – because we did inherit data that's been here forever, but it doesn't mean that it shouldn't have been gone through
and looked at, you know, so.
Yeah.
I don't – my concern is, and how you said that, that it shouldn't have been.
It's just a matter of being able to explain that difference.
And you both find some that maybe – that's – you've signed off on a couple of meetings tonight.
But to be able to explain that so then we can – the use pack, the use pack.
It has those differences in their housing and housing.
Right. And that's in the welfare office. I got locked out.
That was the last man, so I had to leave.
Don't worry about it.
I brought it after reading it, so if you're looking for it.
But, yeah, but I started going through that.
You know, it's a lot of blah, blah, blah, and so I was trying to get to the nuts and bolts of it to figure out.
Because, again, I'm a taxpayer in New Hampshire myself, and I had a rebound in my town a couple of years ago, and the same thing.
You know, my land went from 40 to 80, and, you know, you couldn't do anything on it.
And I'm not trying to get my taxes decreased.
No.
And I'm not trying to get my neighbor's taxes increased.
Sure.
I just want to understand, because when people ask me why, I can't tell them.
Right. And that's why I know you get the questions being the slackman and stuff.
So that's why I'd like to give you an answer that you can at least give them something, whether they like it or not, at least an answer that makes sense.
Yep.
Thank you.
Okay.
Well, on the other note, we've got 250 permits and 14 brand-new houses.
I'm going to be measuring as soon as this weather clears up, so we're going to be bringing some more.
250?
There were 250 permits, and there's 14 brand-new houses in town.
I've been going through the permit.
That was just last year.
Wow.
So I've been going through them, and, you know, some are minimal things, but Mike and I spoke today, so we will be increasing the town's worth at the end of the year.
So hopefully we can keep this tax rate in somewhat reasonable words now.
Okay?
Mr. Tabor has a question.
Oh, sure.
And I appreciate your explanation, and I've picked up on several of it.
Many of us in here, all of us, are very knowledgeable of how to do a variety of formulas and everything else.
As you alluded to, it doesn't make sense as far as a formulation.
If I have some specific questions I can give to the board, can they get followed up with you to try and ask them specifically instead of tying up more time?
You can also call me, and he's in office.
I'm there Tuesday and Wednesday.
Nick, what's it called?
T-A-A-F-F-U.
My phone number is 603-903-7322, and I always have that phone with me, so you can call me.
I always answer.
Similar to the board, I'm one of the commissioners for the district, so we get a lot of questions as well.
Not necessarily tax-based, other than why it is going up, but trying to have that understanding for all of us, even yourself.
And the response is, we don't know 100% why this is doing it, so trying to really understand it, I think, can benefit all of us.
So I'll try and generate the specific questions and see if it drills in a little bit more.
Yeah.
Okay, thank you.
To go over to your neighbors and understand it a little bit better, put the cards right in front of you.
Thank you, Nick.
Okay.
See you.
It's all right.
It's all right.
See you.
Nobody's here.
So do we want to adjourn a minute?
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We're going to take a break.
This year the treasurer needs to be appointed rather than elected.
Okay.
So that salary will have to be tweaked.
The stipend will have to be tweaked a little bit.
And the treasurer for the trustees of trust funds has not received an increase for quite a while.
He calculated that his hours that he works on the trustees of trust funds is about $4,000 a year.
He was getting $2,000.
So we're going to increase that to $4,000.
And the health insurance along with a half year increase beginning in July as mentioned above.
Yep.
Health insurance premiums are going up 11% effective July 1st.
We're on a July 1st to June 30th time period.
So plus we had an employee opt into the insurance during 2025 that we didn't have in the budget.
So it was even more of an increase because we had to budget for that full year.
Okay.
It's still not clear I guess.
I'm thinking those are all part time positions and health insurance as usual.
No, they're all full time.
They're all full time.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Great.
Thanks.
All right.
Since we're here.
So Rache Colcom for the recording.
How much is budgeted for the charges position?
Is it a full time position?
Is it part time position?
What's the stipend there?
It's a stipend position.
Right now it's $2,000 and I put another $3,000 in.
So $5,000 total is what we're carrying.
Depending what the board decides.
But that's what we're carrying in the budget is $5,000 to stipend for the budget.
We're down to the revaluation.
That went down 32% because we just did the reval.
Right now it's $2,000 and I put another $3,000 in.
So $5,000 total is what we're carrying.
Depending what the board decides.
But that's what we're carrying in the budget is $5,000 to stipend for the budget.
So $5,000 total is what we're carrying.
So $5,000 total is what we're carrying.
Depending what the board decides.
But that's what we're carrying in the budget is $5,000 to stipend for the federal.
Okay.
We're down to the revaluation.
That went down 32% because we just did the reval.
So the money, we won't need as much money in there to go into next year.
And we now have an employee that comes in and we have hired a, the assessor that was working
for us has been hired as a contracted service.
So, right?
Not Dave.
No?
No, not Dave.
We still have our utility assessor who's a specialized assessor.
in town.
We have utilities get assessed differently than properties.
And we have one part-time contractor who reviews things in order to sign off that gets submitted
to the Department of Revenue.
Got another question on that?
So what's the value in hiring this person part-time in addition to what we have or in place of using
the contracted services with the hired assessor?
Where's the value added in hiring him and having him part of our payroll?
Well, first of all, we're not having the contract that we had previously.
We are not renewing the contract with him.
We are hiring the person that is coming to the office from his company.
So, he's going to be here, what, twice a week?
Right.
He's going to be in the office a week.
More accessible.
More accessible to the public than they were previously by having him as a payroll employee.
And it's a non-benefit.
Yes.
He's only going to work in the office 20 hours.
He works for us 20 hours in the office, 16, out in the field or remote.
So, it won't be any benefits.
Okay.
Legal.
The legal line item went up 16%.
We're going to be doing union negotiations.
So, that's going to increase the legal fee.
Plus, we have several junkyards.
Code enforcement.
Code enforcement issues that are going to be coming up, are going to need legal issues.
And we've also added some money for trustees.
Oh, yes.
And trustees and trust fund asked to have legal fees added.
Any questions?
It's unlegal.
The next one is land use and economic development.
That one up 4%.
Master plan update.
Economic development committee meetings monthly.
And the application fees will land use for 2025 at 60.
2025 at $7,927.
Yeah.
Rache Colcombe again.
Can you explain why we have an increase under the economic development?
What are we adding in there?
And do we need to continue to keep the same amount of services, outside services in our meetings
going forward?
Yeah, but we haven't talked about that.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We should have.
We can't talk about that.
Yeah.
That was discussed by the economic development plan.
Right.
Right.
It's the economic development plan, working on the TIF plan, assistance for future gateway
zones, development for the economic development webpage.
There's promotion of the commercial, industrial tax exemption and the economic revitalization zones.
There's promotion of the commercial industrial tax exemption and the economic revitalization zones.
There's quite a bit of the commercial.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's a lot of the economic development plan.
There's promotion of the commercial industrial tax exemption and the economic revitalization zones.
There's quite a bit of work with the implementation of the economic development plan that needs to be done.
So that would require the services?
That's the Central New Hampshire Planning Commission.
So none of that's -- may I ask another question on that for clarification?
So none of that's covered under the original contract that we have with the Central Regional.
This is all above and beyond, and it's costing us more at the economic development level?
We've got the dues, which has been explained.
The dues that gives us the benefits of getting a good rate for contracted services through these projects.
And, you know, there's other benefits with the dues, but this is above the dues.
This is something that, if you were to hire a consultant, you'd be paying three times more.
I mean, it's -- you definitely get a lot for what we pay.
So that covers one employee, but right now it's capped because we were comparing to some other regions, some other communities that can do for pay scale.
But it's -- some of those have additional duties that we are not -- we don't have them.
We did raise her rate because she's taken on the whole GIS system and learning that and creating some layers to our maps that we would have to be hiring consultants to do.
So that's one person.
Yes.
So that's one person.
Yes.
Government -- general government buildings.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $15,000.
The Woodswood.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $15,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $15,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $16,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
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That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
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That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
That went up to $17,000.
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There is a school system.
Resource officer.
Prosecuting service groups.
Urbanized diversion programs.
Dispatch services.
And contract covering.
Deering revenues in 2025.
This service totals $422,328.85.
Computer system support.
Annual support contract has increased.
Contracted services for body cam has increased.
Equipment purchases increased for the body cam.
Increased for the portable and base radio.
Special legal.
This item covers our prosecutor and the increase is due to a new contract.
Vehicle repair cruises.
We now recover one new cruiser based on our rotation schedule.
In 2025 we purchased the new cruiser.
Plus we had to purchase a second one to replace one that was totaled in an accident.
And police station maintenance.
The reduction in this one is due to the ending of our cleaning contract and hiring a cleaner as an employee.
So those wages are included in the payroll line.
Any questions?
Tom McClure.
You say that we had to purchase a new cruiser.
Don't we have insurance on that?
Didn't we have insurance on it?
Yeah.
Didn't we have insurance on it?
Yeah.
We did but it's not, it's not replacement value.
Chris is gonna, I need to ask Chris this.
Chris is gonna, I need to ask Chris this.
How much did we get from insurance on that one?
$8,500.
Yeah.
The value was at $8,500.
And that was the cruiser that was totaled out in Emerald Lake when a plow truck backed
into the front of it.
Yeah.
So what, what was the cruiser?
What was the cruiser?
What was the cruiser?
What was the cruiser?
What was the cruiser that was totaled out in Emerald Lake when a plow truck backed into the
front of it?
Yeah.
So what was the cruiser worth?
That, that's what Primex told us.
Yeah.
We did but it's not, it's not, it's not, um, replacing value.
Chris is gonna, I need to ask Chris this.
Yeah.
Well, how much did we get from insurance on that one?
$8,500.
Yeah.
Is room insurance.
The value is at $8,500.
And that was the, that was the cruiser that was totaled out in Emerald Lake when a plow truck
backed into the front of it.
Yeah.
Okay.
So what, what was the cruiser worth?
That's what Primex told us.
Yeah.
That's our insurance company.
Was it a, what, what, what game was it?
Was it an old one or?
It was.
An older one.
So was it in fact probably worth $8,500?
Yeah.
Well, probably $9,500 because we have $1,000 of that for that.
Mm-hmm.
The University of Hillsborough, is that a, Hillsborough truck that backed into it?
No.
It was a private citizen.
Then why don't they pay for the new cruiser?
Okay.
So whatever the insurance settlement was, it's, they don't have to pay.
I mean, if somebody backed into your personal vehicle, you get the value of that vehicle.
They don't buy you a $40,000 car.
It's not, it's not, no difference with backing into our vehicle.
It's not replacing value.
Was something paid to the town for the damage to the vehicle?
$8,500.
By the other insurance company?
Yes.
We have a $1,000 deductible on ours.
Thank you.
We just, it wasn't clear that we were getting income for that.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Um, is there a line item for the insurance premiums for the, for the police station and the
vehicles?
It's under the insurance line.
Insurance?
Everybody, the whole town is under the same property and liability insurance.
What is that?
Same case vertical.
Oh, the general's got to be written in insurance.
Well, one, six, nine.
No.
One?
One, six, five.
One, six, five.
One, six, five.
One, six, five.
Yeah.
One, six, three through one, six, eight.
The little numbers on the left-hand side.
The little numbers on the left-hand side.
Going back to the insurance payment, if we were hit and we received money from the other
insurance company, how come our deductible kicked in?
Shouldn't we not have a deductible if we were hit and we were not at fault?
Shouldn't we get?
Yeah.
But, so when I, when I was explaining it, I was thinking of primates payment.
Yeah.
So our, so then it would have been, we have a thousand dollar deductible, which they wouldn't
do a town.
But, Lee made a good point that if they hit us, it just isn't their insurance company.
It was their insurance company.
So, that's why I mentioned the deductible.
Tammy McCaw, would you go back to the payroll?
Tell me, I was just, I just didn't hear you.
I'm so sorry.
I'm sorry.
You said it was taken out of something and then put into payroll instead.
Someone you moved.
It was just a move.
Oh, the cleaning?
The cleaning came out and that was, and his.
So, the reduction in the cleaning line or the maintenance line is due to the fact that
the cleaning contract expired and they hired an employee who was willing to come in and clean
the station.
And therefore, oh, a new employee.
I'm sorry.
And those wages were added to the payroll line.
But you don't get a clear indication of what you have for maintenance then, right?
What did you pay for?
Well, the maintenance line would go down and your payroll went up because you hired an
employee who maintained the building.
Non.
Non.
Non.
No.
Benefits?
Non-benefits.
Did you find your answer on the insurance?
Yeah, I was just thinking about it.
Your 2024 annual report says it doesn't report capital assets.
So, I'm wondering if you guys have done a review on the premiums paid.
For example, you know, I have an old vehicle.
An insurance company was actually looking for more in premiums than what it was worth.
So, I'm wondering if $123,000, I assume it's lower than the value of your assets, but covered.
Has anyone reviewed that?
So, we review the list every year.
Because we cycle off equipment, we cycle on new equipment.
This property and liability covers our buildings and our equipment.
So, that is based on the age when vehicles start getting older, the value comes down on our insurance.
As we have brand new equipment, the value goes up.
So, there you have the flexing in our coverage.
Fire carton.
Are we done with the...
I've got a question on the police department service that we're giving Dearing, selling a product to Dearing.
Is that something that we get to vote on whether we would like to accept that or not at a town meeting?
The town of Dearing has to vote on whether they want to accept Hillsborough to cover them.
I'm wondering why, as a taxpayer, we wouldn't get a chance at town meeting to say, "No, we don't want to do that."
So, Dearing is voting on a contract to pay Hillsborough.
The police chief has...
We had a contract already to help coverage in Dearing.
Without a contract, we are being called to do mutual aid, yet they have no one to send it to us.
They could call state police.
State police doesn't have the personnel, so they would be calling us to go over there.
Can I make a point there?
The town of Dearing is surrounded by six other communities.
Why would they have to call Hillsborough?
Why couldn't they call Ware, or Hanneker, or Antrim, or Bennington?
Okay, they don't call anybody.
They call state police.
Correct.
State police call Hillsborough.
We could not say to the state police, "I'm sorry, we do not have somebody available."
Call one of these other towns?
Why are we stuck in having to support Dearing?
I don't get that.
So, one of the issues we run into, we are one of the only 24-hour agencies in this area.
Louder.
Louder.
Louder.
Oh, sorry.
So, we are one of the 24-hour agencies in the area.
Obviously, Hanneker is 24 hours as well.
Andrew is one of the other ones.
However, they don't have, one thing is the manpower, but then the resources that Hillsborough
has, as well as the dispatch center.
People call, so for the call to go to state police, it then comes back to Hillsborough dispatch,
and that's when we get involved in those cases.
We're going to go, the problem that I have, and I get it, that we work for the town of Hillsborough.
But if somebody's getting assaulted, rigged over the town line, how can I tell my officers
to stay in Hillsborough and not go over and help them?
I understand that.
It just, it seems to me that because we are 24-hour coverage, and we have a dispatch center,
then we have to supply an officer to Deary, when Deary doesn't have to have a police department
at all.
What happens in Windsor?
We go to Windsor.
And do we get paid to go to Windsor?
There is a contract that we do get some payment for going to Windsor.
Just the whole thing doesn't sound quite great.
What is the supposed contract to Deary if they vote to have us covered?
$275,000 a year.
$275,000 the first year, $285,000 the second year, and $295,000 the third year.
Which, the big thing with going to Deary and stuff like that, we will assist state police
when they call us and say, "Hey, we have a domestic in Dearing.
Can you send somebody over to secure the scene until we show up?"
What happens is we show up, we secure the scene, we wait for state police, which may be
an hour of travel time.
Once, and it just happened just prior to December for the monthly contract that we're involved
in with Dearing right now is, prior to that, we helped state police with a domestic.
And then they're like, "Hey, we're going to arrest this person."
Then we went back to Hill Corpede.
And we, I don't want to say babysit, but we babysat the grouper while they process
because they can't get in and out of our building.
They can't get in the booking room, out of the booking room.
They get stuck in the booking room.
So it ties up our officer anyway.
And for that, we weren't getting paid for because that was considered mutual aid.
Okay.
So.
So, Rishai Kolkham.
So I met with one of the lieutenants at the State House to talk to him about this issue.
And come to find out, you know, this is not a unique issue.
This, because the state police are short-handed, this is something that other communities are also facing.
And he left me with the understanding, although I have not finished all of the conversations.
I haven't spoken with the major yet.
But he left me with the understanding that the town of Hillsborough can engage in an MOU
with the state police and possibly get compensated for these calls that we're covering on their behalf
because they know that they're short-handed.
They know that they can't respond to the calls.
And they acknowledge that we are not alone in our taxpayers funding something that they should be doing.
So, it would be great if the town can talk with them about maybe getting an MOU for responding to those calls
on behalf of the state police.
Because it's above and beyond the mutual aid contract.
They agreed on that.
They acknowledge that as well.
We don't have an issue yet right now because we have to contract with Antrim for paying for the coverage.
But, Dearing, that's correct.
And I know we don't do a lot with Windsor, but it would still cover us for Windsor and any of those other communities.
We just need to get involved in the conversation with them.
I can only take that conversation so far as a state rep.
I can't get into contracts with them.
To continue, what is this going to do with our vehicles, the cruises?
Is it going to add extra miles to it, traveling over to Dearing?
I know that this part of Dearing is really close with this part that isn't.
And also, the money that the town is receiving, does that go into the general fund?
All of it.
No?
No.
No?
No.
Not all of it.
So, well, the board hasn't decided yet.
The goal would be to put some of that money, not much of it, but maybe $2,000 a month into that special revolving fund that the PD has.
So if, at the end of the year, I know what my gas bill is every year.
Like, if you look at my gas line and my cruiser maintenance line, it's the same for the last, like, three or four years because we've maintained our equipment.
And we've switched to the hybrids, so it is saving money on gas.
At the end of the year, it would be nice to, if I'm over on those lines, then that's where that money comes from.
If they're contracting with the town of Hillsborough, it seems to me that all that money should go to the general fund.
If the police budget needs more money for a certain line item, then they should request that through the select room.
This money that we get from Deering should not go partially into the police department's fund.
I don't think.
It's a town fund.
The revolving fund is a town fund.
Who has control over it?
The town.
And the police department doesn't have any control over it?
Well, the police department has control of it, but it can only be used on cruisers.
Fine.
Do the taxpayers get to vote on the use of that money?
It doesn't go before a town vote.
No.
So the answer is no on that.
I think if we're selling a product to a neighboring town, that that money should all go into the general fund.
Before it can, we can decide to do that.
Well, whether it can or will.
Well, we can talk about it.
The thing is that if his budget in gas goes over by $10,000, wouldn't you rather have put a little bit of money in this maintenance fund to pay to offset that $10,000?
Not necessarily.
The police department budget is 30 some odd percent of the whole town budget.
And if we...
I understand your job.
And I'm not one that would be defund the police.
I think you're doing a fine job.
I like you as a person.
The problem is, I think, as a taxpayer, ride around on the roads that we have.
See how rough they are.
This town does not have a town hall.
We have to meet either here, the town office, or the police station.
If we weren't spending so much money on some services that some of us don't even use, I think we could make our town better.
And that's where my thought line is.
It's not in every year.
If you look from 2023 to this year, look at the increase we've had in the police department budget alone.
I looked at it earlier.
I think it's 30 percent.
And I always hear that we have a lot of problems in this town.
We have drug problems.
But it's like the school.
The kids aren't getting a good education, so we keep throwing money at it.
When we keep throwing money at this, is it getting better in this town, or is it the same?
I think it's getting better.
Well, and I hope it would, but you have to understand.
My new assessment, my taxes were up 2,400 bucks one year.
I now pay the town about $1,200 a month to live in my house.
And I think we have, for years, lived beyond our means.
And I think it's time that we start cutting and get down to something that we can afford
and not keep adding all these things in.
Later on in the budget, there's more things in it.
I'm sorry, but I just packed.
To follow up on that, the revolving fund brought in $61,000 last year and expended $49,000.
Is that $49,000 accounted for out of our general fund?
Do we transfer that from the general fund back into the revolving, or is that a separate checking account?
They write out their own checks, and it's not accounted for in any of our budget numbers here.
How do we see what that $49,000 was that was expended?
Or even the $61,000?
So, those funds, which we gave you copies of, have their own accounts.
They are in the town report every year.
If you want a breakdown as to what is spent on there, you can certainly get a breakdown.
Getting back to your question about Deering and paying Deering for this.
Deering paying us for police services.
The police chief came to us in either November or December and explained the situation in Deering
and said, "We have a short-term contract.
I believe it was four months for, I don't know, somewhere between $40,000 and $50,000."
We don't know what it's going to cost, you're right.
We don't know what it's going to cost us extra for gas, or wear and tear in the vehicles, or overtime.
But we said we're getting, sometimes between $40,000 and $50,000.
We said we would try it for three or four months until, I believe it's April 1st,
to see how the dollars and cents work out.
At this point, we don't know.
So at some point, we're expecting a report from the police chief to tell us how,
are we making money on this?
Are we losing money?
Because we don't want to lose money.
At best, we want to break even.
At worst, we want to break even.
But it would be nice if we could make some money on this as well.
But at this point, we just don't know.
We have the option, and I believe it's April 1st, once they vote,
we have to vote, the select people have to vote as well to get into this contract.
We'll wait and see what happens for these three or four months or five months
that we're in this short-term contract to see how we fare.
If we fare well, maybe we'll do it.
If we don't, maybe we won't.
But we won't know that until the end.
Does that make sense?
A little.
I'd like to know why the taxpayers, we are the ones that are going to, supporting this.
Originally, the money will come out of our pocket, then we'll be reimbursed.
Why the taxpayers couldn't vote and say either yes, and maybe the majority of the town would say yes,
or maybe the majority of the town would say no, we don't want to be involved in that.
Is there any explanation for what's going to happen to our liability insurance?
Because we'd be taking on more liability.
Is something going to happen to that?
We asked that question, and the answer was no, it's not going to increase.
That came from the insurance company?
The board asked at the meeting, and we were told that our liability insurance would not increase.
So the insurance company told you that?
No.
I don't remember.
Well, because right now we're covered for mutual aid.
So the fact that we're now going to be receiving funding for that revenue
doesn't change that we go into other communities and do police service.
It's the police service that comes with a value and an experience factor.
So we're assuming that it won't go up.
That's what I get out of this conversation.
It's no different than what we've been doing right along, and it hasn't gone up.
We've had a contrast with Deering previously.
To supplement.
Not to control it.
Right?
Well, this is a supplement.
We're not hiring officers just to work in Deering.
So it's not -- so our officers, whether they go there and we don't get paid, or they go there and Deering is giving us revenues for that, isn't any different in the light of our insurance.
Is Deering voting for the contract or to create their police department again?
Is it two things, or are they just --
I think they're only putting the -- so they put money in the police budget for contracted services or professional services.
Right.
So if that gets voted down, then the issue is null and void, and we're back to doing mutual aid for no money.
Right.
Or to bill the state.
It's a state contract.
They have it in their budget as contract or professional services, and then they have a warrant article for three years.
Right.
But what I'm saying is if it gets voted down, then we're back to trying to bill the state for mutual aid that we may or may not get.
Okay.
All right.
Brett Tabor.
So clarity for my part, whether it's mutual aid or it's contracted services where you're receiving revenue for a service, is the liability any different that you're responsible for?
Because now you're being paid for a service versus just doing a mutual aid.
So I didn't know if there was any liability differences there.
So we're being reimbursed for the time that we spend in the area.
You know, we also have contracts with Windsor.
We have contracts with other communities.
And it doesn't raise our rate for going into these communities.
And Brett Tabor.
Do those other revenue sources or contracts, do those come into general fund or are they into a flexible fund?
General fund.
It's $422,000.
Yep.
Okay.
And that's where it was my interpretation that all funds coming, all revenue sources coming into the town come into general or specific water or specific sewer.
And because we have a fixed budget, if the selectmen or whoever is in charge of those agencies need to adjust funds across the lines, they do that.
But you have to report the DRA if you go over your budget, unless it's specific to a capital reserve amount that you pulled in or anything else.
I wasn't sure how this revolving fund allows that flexibility.
So a revolving fund, we have one for parks as well, parks reservation.
You put money in to help fund programs or cruiser or something in our parks department, for example.
Those fees that we charge for all the programs, now those programs are self-sustaining because the money goes in, we're able to pay the bills that's coming out.
So what the chief was saying is if they, if the board enabled them to put $2,000 a month in the revolving fund, that could take care of any overages that we see that can, or if we get enough in there, we can purchase a cruiser from there.
So you're only allowed revolving funds in police, parks, and transportation.
Oh, so it's a statute that allows it. Okay. I wasn't aware of that one. Thank you.
And does it allow just the general flexibility or does it say, fine, you're going to put 5% against this expense, 10% against this expense?
So it's a fixed amount going into these potential overages?
No.
Okay.
It's flexible.
Nathaniel VanCamp. I have a more general question. Is there anybody or is there a process that is being used to explore ways to reduce some of these vendor costs?
It looks to me, I have quite a bit of experience with numbers, and it's just a constant increase.
I moved here about four years ago, and one of my first quotes to plow my driveway was about $250.
I've moved here four years now, and I know a few people, and now it's $75.
Four years later, you'd say, well, inflation should have made it more expensive, right?
But it's not. You can shop around. Is there a process in place, or is someone exploring that?
Are you talking about the police contracts?
All of your costs across the board. I mean, if you're looking at, I don't know, officer supplies, telephone.
My telephone is $15 a month. I used to pay $100. My wife pays $40. She has unlimited internet.
I don't. I get five gigs, and that's it.
She gave you a flip phone?
Nice at the budget. No, I'm willing to.
So, contracted services, a lot of the contracted services we have are specific to the vendors who we purchase the equipment from.
So we have software contracted services that we have to pay a fee each year, and that supplies updates to all our software products.
We have, like in the police department, the body cams.
That's a different contract in which they replace the body cams, so we're not buying them when they become obsolete.
Do you have a process in place to explore lowering costs?
So the chief can, we do, if we, we can't really buy, other than if we change our software, for example.
Then that new vendor will be our supplier we will pay an annual fee to, because they give us all the updates to that software.
But it's the leads going to a different software package, which I'm sure you know, that in itself is, can be $10,000.
And, but, support happens in all our budgets that we have the software products.
Our town clerk, our finance, our town office, our copiers, the police services.
The chief can explain, I think the body cam one is pretty...
Yeah, the body cam one, basically the cameras, the, after about two and a half years, the batteries die in them.
And they won't, they'll charge, they won't be active for your whole ship.
So you're going to have to go back, switch out cameras or switch out or put it on a charger or something like that.
So, because of the battery life in those cameras, the agreement that we're in with Axon is those cameras are refreshed every two and a half years.
And we'll get the, the, the newest camera out there, where the battery is usually a longer life, um, there's more technology in that new camera.
But they do look at services to see if there's another company that offers a better product or a better, um, service contract or replacement.
And luckily, you know, with other municipalities, we can send that information out, that question out.
What are you using?
What are you paying?
What, how many does this cover?
Um, so, but some of them are very specific to products that we use.
We're Shay Kolkum.
Um, so talking about the revenue and, and, uh, the revolving from the stuff, the insurance payment that we receive for that,
Cruiser.
I'm doing some searches through the detailed revenue and the trial balance and stuff.
I'm not finding that that was deposited in the general fund.
Did that refund get put into the revolving fund of the police department?
Or did the, did that insurance payment go into our general fund?
Do you know?
Um, they typically go into the general fund.
So I'm assuming that would have as well.
Any insurance reimbursements we get go into the general fund.
I'm not seeing it, but I'm doing searches by certain things, so.
Yeah, I can, um, check to see which account we got credited to and let you know.
Yeah.
I usually get tripped up when I'm on the phone with the Department of Revenue and talking about revenues and say,
and they'll say, well, what made up this line?
Yeah.
It's not obvious in the detailed revenues.
The other question I have, we talked about the Windsor contract.
Was the Windsor contract updated this year?
If not, when was the last time that Windsor contract was updated?
Um, it's a G plus.
It's a G plus.
It's a G plus.
It's a G plus.
So.
So as far as I know, our contracts will be the Department of Revenue.
It's together.
It's together.
It's together.
Okay.
So that was reviewed.
I know the board asked to review as far as what we're charging them this year.
I mean, we were just talking about it this morning, actually.
Yeah.
I mean.
Fire calls and between fire calls.
It's whenever they added the PD stipend to the total number is when we last time we had
to renegotiate it for lack of a better term, I guess.
So we don't know the specific date of when we negotiated that contract last.
It's been that long?
Well, he doesn't have to.
You don't have that.
Well, I mean, I don't remember the executive, but I mean, it was within the last five years.
I would say it was in the last five years, yes.
Any other questions?
Okay.
Fire department.
Fire department's budget was down 5%.
Offset by a total of $265,506.74 from revenue from the ambulance building.
And that revenue, just to know that's what we collected.
There is still some outstanding from 2005 that we will collect moving forward.
But this is just what we took in for revenue so far from 25.
Our contract at Capital Area Fire Compact is increasing.
Equipment purchase line decreased because the line of trucks have been paid off.
Fire payroll covers all firefighters, officers, stipends, fire fees, salary, and administrative assistant wages.
A portion of the increase is due to the call volume along with the applicable wage adjustments.
Tire increase is purchased for tires for our engine and ladder trucks.
And rescue payroll is increased mostly because of volume calls.
Currently, we have some dedicated per diem individuals to sign up for shifts to cover our ambulance.
However, we are anticipating that we will soon need to switch to full-time employees since it is harder to get
to where available and/or interested in this type of on-call employment.
This is something that is being experienced statewide and it's something that has been in our radar for the last four years.
I've got a question on that particular point.
There is an ambulance service that operates out of Hillsborough.
Instead of having full-time employees, additional full-time employees,
has there ever been any consideration about contacting them?
Maybe having them be the initial response?
If we need a second ambulance is needed, then the fire department would respond?
If there is an issue, and I think there has been an issue for a long time,
of having enough people interested in getting on the fire department.
And I think a lot of it is because of the training they have to go through.
And also, I think people don't get committed to their communities like they used to.
A lot of people are really, in my opinion, a transient society.
If they buy a house in a couple of years, they'll sell it and move on.
So it's hard to become a member of the community that way.
But I would think that there would be some consideration.
I don't know how the chief feels about that, but just talking with them and getting a price to see what would happen.
Ken, Chief, do you have any questions, comments?
Yeah, I mean, believe me, I think of this every day, Tom.
This is not something that we can take lightly.
It's one of those deals I 100% agree with you.
People don't do that anymore.
Back in the days when everyone wanted to volunteer, it is what it is.
Hiring a private ambulance service to augment you, you're going to give up a lot of money because you're doing a lot with billing.
That number that you just heard, 265,556, is probably going to swell by another $200,000 once we get all that money.
So we don't get that anymore.
Taxpayers do not get that money anymore.
That all goes to that private ambulance service.
The other thing is, too, the service that you get from a private ambulance service is not what you're going to get from your people.
It's not going to happen.
I don't know how to explain this being crass, but...
Well, I can handle that.
We look out when we hire people.
You know this.
We run this department before.
There has been quality people in this building or in these buildings for 200, 300 years, whatever it's been.
I don't know the exact date, but you're not going to get that from a private service.
You and I have had this discussion before.
You've got to remember you've given that revenue to them.
Plus, you're going to pay them to come in here.
So let's say they'll say, "Yeah, we'll do it for 100."
So you're going to give them 100 grams.
You're going to give them half a million dollars.
Is it cheaper?
I think we're far enough out.
Right now, you pretty much have 24-hour, seven-day coverage right now.
I have people in this building 24 hours, seven days a week.
It's working.
It could be a lot better.
We just picked up three new people this past couple of weeks.
So it's starting to get a little bit better.
Fireside, we're not picking up as many as we used to.
We still have a dedicated group of 20 of us that show up a lot.
Just a thought.
If you want my opinion as your fire chief, and you trust me as much as you say you do,
I think that's a road we shouldn't really venture down yet.
I don't think we're -- it's that detrimental yet.
And I think we're just shooting ourselves in the foot if we do that.
So I think that's a great segue into revisiting the Windsor contract
because I think from my recollection, I have the contract at home.
Unfortunately, I don't have it on my computer like I thought I did.
From my recollection, I think Windsor is paying us somewhere around $4,000.
And my other recollection is that it wasn't renewed since like 2010 or 2015.
I'm not saying that with absolute certainty.
But if it's going to cost us $200,000 to hire an outside source,
then why are we not increasing our costs to Windsor and taking advantage of some real revenue
that we should be getting for the ambulance and rescue services that we're providing?
Why are we giving that to a town that's only charging $10 per thousand in taxes
when we're being all taxed out of our homes because we're at $30 or we're not at $21,
but our property values have increased.
So why are we being so generous with our services to Windsor
when we're sitting here saying that to hire an outside company would cost X number of dollars?
Why aren't we comparable?
I don't believe your numbers are right.
Did you say $4,000?
I did.
I get $3,000 with that is police department.
So that would give us $1,000.
I don't think it's that.
I think it's higher than that.
I'm not confident with the number.
That's just what I recall, but that's not to say that's right.
I believe it's higher than that.
And no, like I said, it was like five years ago when we brought them on
because what was happening was -- now we're back to the state police and how good they are.
Our people were going to Windsor to a certain camp that's up there,
and we were putting our people's safety at risk
because we were waiting for state police for some, I don't know, violent kids.
We just used it like that.
So --
I don't think we're charging enough.
Our call volume in Windsor to that specific school has gone down this year.
And overall it's gone down.
I think we're giving away our services.
We're being generous.
I don't disagree with you.
I was just trying to say that the $4,000 might be a little --
But it's the task of the select board to be getting into those contracts.
And, you know, that's their job as the governing body of our town.
It's your job to get into those contracts and to know what we're charging.
You're not charging enough.
I'm not disputing.
I mean, we absolutely should be going.
We are the closest one, and we have the skill set to do so.
I just don't think that we're bringing in enough revenue
to offset what the taxpayers are paying for these services.
And Windsor, in the meantime, is getting a great deal.
Point taken.
We'll talk about it.
This is the second year we're talking about the same thing.
I know.
I know.
You're right.
You're right.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Just as a point of fact.
As a member of the planning board, I was involved in the permitting of that ambulance business on Hennica Street.
And their business model, they're primarily a transport service.
They're not an emergency services provider.
Now, that doesn't mean they couldn't change and do something different.
But primarily, they're just in the transport.
Can I interject?
I'm not trying to insult you or anything.
But then, transfer.
Transfer.
We are a transport service.
We transport from, we're a 911 service that goes from the scene to the Concord Hospital to an emergency service.
They're a transfer.
They get a nursing home transfer.
They do stuff like that.
Thank you.
That's correct.
I used transport last week.
Sorry.
Building inspector and health officer.
Went up 7%.
Building inspector services are covered under medical.
And 2025 expenses is low due to an unpaid medical LOA.
What's LOA?
Leave it back there.
Oh, leave it back there.
So that may have covered my question.
So that $21,000 that was under budget, you're anticipating this year's an increase, another $8,000 above last year's budget, plus the $21,000 delta?
Because you were underpaid seeing the leave of absence.
So he's not underpaid, unpaid.
Yes.
Okay.
Because there wasn't, that person didn't have enough earned time to pay while they were out.
So they're back, so that was their salary had they been paid for a year.
Understood.
So with the increase that, where did you get $21,000?
Oh, the delta.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So this year's budget from last year had they worked all last year and working all this year with all the lines is $8,000 increase for everything.
From last year's budget to this year's proposal.
Okay.
And the revenue for building and building department was $52,902.20.
As he just said, payroll was different because he was on unpaid leave.
So this person is our building inspector, code enforcement officer, health officer.
Forest fire, zero.
I like that one.
No, zero increase.
Emergency management is down 25% due to a discontinuation of code red.
I have a question.
I'm a ham operator.
Does the town have a program for the emergency services for this?
To contact us, do we have a program going for that?
Or if not, would you be opposed to having one without your operators?
Do we have something that replaced code red?
Yes, the genesis of that system.
Yeah, but I think, are you talking about the code red system or are you talking about our emergency management plan if that?
Yeah.
Okay.
I don't have any.
So there's nothing?
All right.
There's nothing in the plan, but that doesn't mean it can't be discussed.
Okay.
Well, wouldn't you use the denisement program if you had an emergency management plan?
So I think he's talking about if there's an emergency that is going on, we don't have anything, correct, Scott, in our emergency management plan that we have the resources that we list, you know, operators in town that we may be able to utilize for an emergency.
Correct?
That was your question?
Yes.
Would you be opposed if one would be implemented or try to be implemented?
I think it's definitely worth a discussion of how that could work because if lines go down, you know, we all think, well, we've got cell phones, we've got to not make sure.
I do believe that Concert Hospital has one because I was looking through their emergency, like their HICS, and they have applications for that.
So I know it's on their radar, you know, as a hospital.
Applications that people fill out to say they are home.
Yeah, to join their, you know, riggingly command, or if you will.
So just, it's a thought.
I mean, then obviously they're, you know, the middle of the spoke, and then they would have the hand radio operators all around.
Dispatch, up 60 cents.
Revenutes for dispatch are included in the $422,828.85, previously mentioned in the police department.
And increases in this department are basically medical insurance and payroll.
So I understand the revenue sources.
I'm just curious as to how the math got there.
The last three years, we've had a $21,000 plus surplus, $60,000, $120,000, and still this current year is an additional $49,000 increase from last year's budget.
So I'm just trying to understand where that is coming from.
Oh, so you mean we budgeted $782,000 last year and only spent $650,000?
Right.
And the year before that, you were budgeted?
$691,000 and only, right.
Yes, you had $60,000 on expended funds the year before that, $21,000.
So this year, still going up almost $50,000.
I'm just trying to understand where that comes from.
Well, the last two years, we were shorthanded in dispatch.
So you're back to full staff?
I just jinxed it.
I know.
You did.
Because the payroll line also includes two vacation buyouts this year.
Okay.
Because obviously we had the death of the dispatcher passed away, and then we have a retirement coming up too.
Okay.
Thank you.
Did we not carry – so we're short staffed, but did we not carry that into last year's $490,000?
Is that why we're short in payroll, $70,000?
Is it because we were short staffed and didn't fill all those positions?
Yeah, we couldn't find people.
To hire.
So – okay.
So then why would we add another $33,000 to that if we already have those two vacant positions in the 2025 budget and we're carrying it forward?
What's the additional $33,000 for?
No, we're full staffed right now.
Right.
We went part of last year down two dispatchers.
And now we're full staffed now and we're budgeting for one more dispatcher?
Partially?
No.
That just increases?
Yeah.
And that's the behavior bio.
Yeah.
We have a contract too, so pay off goes up over here.
Yeah.
We have a case on that.
Teen center, about seven percent.
There's membership for the chamber, includes assignments for the director of service.
Advertising this line item now includes Chamber of Commerce membership for the town and the portion of the increase in this line is for a stipend amount for the director to also serve as an assistant to the town administrator for an average of 10 hours per week to help with policy changes.
and miscellaneous projects.
Yes?
Yes?
Lee Bossey.
First of all, we could call Tom an old curmudgeon, except I'm the same age and we're classing.
He didn't complain of his class up.
Three things on this.
First, the minor one.
If the town wants to be a member of the Chamber of Commerce, that's fine.
This minor light item should be in the office.
The town office budget doesn't belong in one department.
More seriously, when did this town authorize the new position of assistant town administrator?
You're going to pay one.
You have to authorize it.
It's not it.
It's not.
He's already employed by the town.
It's just going to be added duties.
You can't create a new position out of thin air and decide to pay him 10 hours a week.
If he's not doing two hours a day as an assistant town administrator, he's taking it away from his time at the teen center.
And yet, you're giving him a raise there.
This is the slimiest thing I've ever seen.
If you need help in the town office, create the position and ask the voters to support it.
We do not see a full-time position of assistant town administrator.
I mean, some of you who have followed the town know that there's been additional projects and...
Irrelevant.
Excuse me.
Irrelevant.
No, no, you didn't answer.
Irrelevant.
If you're going to create a new position, the town only can do that.
You have, out of the boom, created a new position and funded it.
And I think that needs to be stripped.
Why wasn't it open for the public to apply for the position also?
I mean, you guys talked earlier about the treasurer position and putting the treasurer position open for the public to apply.
Why didn't the public have an opportunity to apply for this position?
Good point.
Well, then we would be paying this gentleman 40 hours a week and another person for 20 hours a week for 10 hours a week.
Why would you pay him 40 hours a week if he doesn't need to work?
Because he's already working 40 hours a week.
Because we've rearranged some things in the team center to allow for that.
Yeah.
And we have somebody who has the ability that's on our staff to assist with this, who already establishes policies to bring forward, who already has the experience in managing projects.
Why wouldn't we tap into someone we have on our staff instead of trying to search for somebody to average 10 hours a week?
And you're only talking about, I think, $5 an hour more.
I think it's more.
Or 10 hours a week.
But I think it's more a selectman position, right?
It's a selectman decision to make.
I mean, this was discussed at the selectman meeting.
Was it agreed upon by the selectman that we were going to add a position?
Was it agreed upon by the selectman that we weren't going to put this out for open applications like you guys discussed tonight with the treasurer position?
You know, you've got an application right now for the treasurer position.
I mean, are you going to consider that application that you already have on file?
Or are you going to ignore that and put it out for...
I can't ignore it.
Okay.
You are here to ignore this.
You didn't ask anyone.
You didn't ask us if we want an assistant town administrator.
Let's pass that over and get to the more serious aspect.
I'm referring to your line items here.
The teens on your line 376 to 403.
Follow me if you will.
The total budget asked is $344,608.60.
Yeah, that's the new budget proposed.
The proposed budget.
Of this, $291,222.60 is encumbered by salary and benefits.
84.5% of the entire budget in salary and benefits.
That leaves $53,386 or 15.49% for teen programs.
If you then subtract the $16,250 rent, the $2,500 for training and development, that leaves $34,636 or 10.05% for teen programming.
If you then subtract computer services, postage, telephone, office expense, and repairs, that leaves you with life skill programs of $12,000 and recreation programs of $3,000.
$15,000 in total programming or 4.35% of a $344,000 budget.
That, I suggest, is absolutely absurd.
This department needs to be scrapped and reformatted immediately and put more into teen services and less into imported salaries.
I want to go back to being able to answer the assistance and the fact that we offer programs that aren't, the expenses are no longer in this budget because they are self-sustaining now with the revenues.
So, this isn't just for the teen center, it's for, they also run, the director runs, manhand, son of camp.
There is a family line of manhand for the white stars and such as that.
But the programs that we've now offered to the public, many programs, under this director, within, JT, was it within the first year, became self-sustaining?
Yep.
And that deserves an applaud as well because now we are budgeting for things like that.
First of all, we've had a Manningham program for 50 years.
It has always been separately budgeted and paid for.
It is separately budgeted, but the director is not the person that organizes and advertises.
And we didn't need one before.
It was done through the town office or the...
Park board.
Park board.
Beyond that, where are the revenues?
I see no revenues from the teen center that are funding in.
If you've got all these extra programs, why aren't they in the here and showing us how much it's costing us to run it?
If you've got the proper way to do it, you show the revenues, you show the expenses.
That's what you do on everybody else, but there's none shown in this teen center.
We've had the same excellent program for years in the teen center under the prior director.
Well, teen center is not...
We do not charge individuals to come to our teen center.
So there is no revenues for the teen center.
There are recreational revenues that should get to that budget, as it's in the paperwork there.
We could certainly, if you'd like, a copy of the revolving fund that shows the revenue that's coming in and the expense is going out for the programs that we offer, the recreation programs.
And you can see that it's all sustained.
I just have a quick question, Kim Hanson.
We're still kind of new here.
So the teen center, is that, the teen, could that be brought into the school?
I'm just a little confused as why it's not part of the school.
Right.
So I'm going to have to direct this.
Yeah.
JT, you're the director of the youth center.
Yeah, so the school runs an after-school program for, it's K-5.
You can get it.
And then we run a 7th through 12th grade.
We are looking at running it to 6th grade.
We don't get a lot of 12th graders that don't.
So we are looking to open it up to 6th graders.
But we run that program.
So we are looking to open it up to 6th graders, we are looking to open it up to 6th graders, we are looking to open it up to 6th graders, and we are looking to open it up to 7th graders, we are looking to open it up to 6th graders, we are looking to open it up to 7th graders, we are looking to open it up to 7th graders, we are looking to open it up to 7th graders and we are looking to open it up to 7th graders, we are looking to open it up to 7th graders.
So we are looking to open it up to 6th graders, we are looking to open it up to 7th graders, we are looking to open it up to 7th graders, we are looking to open it up to 7th graders, we are looking to open it up to 7th graders, we are looking to open it up to 7th graders, we are looking to open it up to 7th graders, we are looking to open it up to 7th graders.
Thank you.
Thank you.