All towns · sunapee

Conservation Commission Meeting

Video

I haven't heard anything from him.
Cliff will not be making it.
He just emailed me a second ago and said he's unable to make it.
You're welcome.
You're the chair.
He's going to declare the meeting's open or not.
Let's open the meeting.
Here we go.
We'll accept.
Yes, we've got to go home for kickoff.
I agree.
Yes.
Yes.
Got to be ready for that.
All right.
All right.
All right, except the June minutes.
I would note that Barbara was listed as absent and a member, so maybe we should make that update.
Is she still listed on the town website?
Maybe that's why.
She is.
She is.
It hasn't updated.
I could do that.
I'm so sorry.
Oh, just another thing.
See, that one's an easy fix, so I can do that one right as we speak.
But that's probably why she was still listed as Beth listed our website and saw her.
So I will get that.
that removed. My apologies there.
I thought the minutes were good.
Yes?
Yeah, I thought they were okay.
I'd call Mr. Worries. So what the hell?
Never happened.
Never happens.
It's or adjustments just from an illustrative, big picture perspective that you're missing anything
or feel we need any more detail because Beth is always open to any edits.
And she said since it's her first time, she's happy to make any adjustments.
Didn't know any.
Yeah, that's great.
Wonderful.
Take a motion.
Motion to accept by Tim.
One favor say aye.
Aye.
Opposed?
Treasurer's report.
Okay, I handed out the report from our $5,300 operating budget.
We have only spent $400, which we spent back in January.
We have a lot of money floating around between bank accounts.
So I've written on the report what money is currently.
at Mascoma. We had a CD that matured in May, and that money was taken out of
Muscoma and moved to TB Bank. We still have a checking account at Muscoma, which has a balance
of $108,578.63. And we have one remaining CD there that matures in August, which had a value
as of the end of April of $106,746.98 cents.
On April 30th, $142,000 was moved from Muscoma to TD Bank.
And of that, $100,000 was put into a new CD that matures in May of 2027.
And then the mystery that we were just discussing a little bit is that there's $42,000 that's not appearing of Conservation Commission
and money that looks like it went out of a coma, but it's not showing up in what I see
from TD, so we're going to try to work that out. But we know it's somewhere.
It's not gone.
It's not gone.
It's not gone.
I just spoke with Shannon today because she was like, hey, I haven't caught up with you yet, but we are in the midst of getting this fixed and moved. So it is underway. She's fully aware of it.
It's just taking a bit longer of a process. And then once everything's in TD, as you mentioned,
it'll be invested.
Well, where's TD?
Td Bank. I don't know where they're...
The closest one? Well, there's one in Hillsborough, and then we have like a courier service that will come and pick things up.
Concord, yep.
The closest, I think.
Yeah, I think Hillsborough is probably the one that comes to mind for me.
So we have approximately $357,000 in multiple bank accounts and CDs as of the moment.
It's not, that's not exactly because bank statements are as of different dates, and so it's all a little moving around.
And then we still have these two Sugar River bank accounts.
I highlighted the Town Forest Fund because that's the one which we approved having those and invoice taken out of that account because of the warrant article.
I have no record whether that was done or not.
So that's one of my questions at the bottom of the page.
Yes, it is impressive.
I've given them the check request form to be charged to that. I think we're trying to figure out if it's a due to do-to, do-from situation of where it comes out of and then how we get the money from that fund to where it needs to go. So it's in process.
The forms from our side and the approvals have all been submitted to finance, so they are working on it.
Okay, so the finance people are aware that we intend to spend that money if possible this year.
Yep, absolutely.
Yeah, they know.
Okay.
Because I reference the one-time, it's not just a one-time thing.
Yeah.
I referenced the warrant article.
It's this was the first time of us doing it.
They're just trying to make sure how we're spending it.
If it is paid out of whether like the general fund and then it's reimbursed by that town forest fund, I'm not sure.
Okay.
And that's what they're working on currently.
But they have all the paperwork and it's in process.
Okay.
Thank you so much.
Yep.
Okay.
So I just had my two questions at the bottom were about the invoice from last month and then figuring out where
where the $42,000 went.
But that's my report.
Any questions?
Will the Mascoma accounts go away
after the CD matures in
August? So like by September
October, those will be
closed out. Everything will be at T.D.
Yep. Okay.
Yeah, and we'll have
a checking account at
TD. We just don't have that right now.
The checks are still coming out of
Muscoma if we write a check.
And then
I thought we paid some memberships before half a year.
We just paid the Conservation Commission,
State Conservation Commission, one in January.
That's the only one.
I haven't seen any other invoices.
We usually pay Osmond Sargent, I think, in the fall.
And then, yeah, I think in the summer and the fall.
And there's that training in the fall, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
For a society, we paid them at some point.
In November.
Later in the year.
Yep.
Yeah. Later in the year.
We certainly have, I think last year I had to chase after them to get,
but I said, you know.
But I think it was November when that, I finally left.
Okay.
Okay. Okay.
Any other questions about the treasurer's report?
A motion.
Wendy.
Okay.
Second.
Okay. All in favor say aye.
Aye.
Opposed.
And we have a treasure.
Correct. Good. Glad to see that this month.
Chasing the 42.
Yeah. Oh, don't worry.
Yeah. I can think so.
Chase it.
I have no invoices.
Okay.
Matthias, where's your invoice?
Sorry. Sorry, everybody.
I was away last week and I didn't get the invoice in time, information at time to January.
I'll keep her. So.
Good one for August.
The invoice next month.
We're trying to make sure that
We use the money from the warrant article, you know, that has to do with Wendomarsh and Dewey Meadow.
So if you can separate, there's other work that you do that's not related to those two projects.
Separate all the work outside of Dewey Woods and...
Didn't put in border, you know, marking the boundaries in the warrant article.
Marking boundaries is separate, too.
Assess the...
That will be billed in our regular budget on...
Do you want just that, like, kind of itemized and separated in the invoice so you could see, you know, what, you know, how it breaks down by property and by task?
Yeah, we need that and we need the amount as well.
You know, so usually, you know, there's just a top line and then you describe what work you've done.
Yep.
But, you know, we need to be able to separate it out for an audit or, you know...
I'll be sure to do that.
It's our visitor and we'll go through his...
report? Does that work?
Thias, your own. Make it bigger.
Can't hardly see you.
Yes, that is good.
Thanks, everybody. Hope everybody stay cool today and staying cool tomorrow.
Yeah, so I have a few items I wanted to update you all on.
I'll work at Wendell Marsh, along with the boundary assessment, updates around Wendell Marsh that we all
all walked and you kind of approve the extension for Banyan kind of first phase of that.
So the trail has been cleared, has been cleared of brush.
It closed really nicely.
Trail signs so I could send to Allison for updating the map.
Day out there clearing, clearing the trail, and it's in great, great shape right now.
So if anyone's interested in going out and taking a look at it, it's ready.
One area that I'd like to go back and address,
is when the trail crosses the power, I'd like to weed whack, or a brush saw and
weed whack, potentially, the trail corridor through there, just so it kind of is more visible and
clearly, you can clearly follow it, because it's mostly, it goes through like ferns and grasses
and raspberries, so it wasn't anything that we could do when we were out there with the
chainsaw and whoppers and all that. So it's more of a kind of a kind of
weed whacker program. So I can go back and do that unless there's any member of the
conservation commission that's looking for, you know, some trail experience. There's a section
there that needs some weed whacking. And I'll just pause in case anyone jumps on that.
Oh, we have a nice time with us.
Not great. Tools are not great for volunteers per the town. Oh. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay.
Very well. That's, that's all good. I'll get up there and we whack that little section when I go up and sign it. And that leads me to my next question is, one, do you have, does the conservation commission have any trail signs in, if there is one? And if not, would you like me to order some signs for the town?
I would say there are some signs in Barbara's garage.
somewhere, but we don't know where they are, and neither does she.
So we may want to have you sort of open up a way to consistently get trail markers and then
sort of have it in your court to make that happen.
Okay. Yeah, so I can...
Is that fair?
I think for past trails, we've worked with Voss Sides, and I've just ordered, you know, a bunch of, you know, a nice trail,
trail signs, trail marker signs, so I can order up some for that trail section. Does anyone
have a preference on style or color? Are these? Aren't we color coding them? The map is
color coded, so we have a blue trail and an orange and a yellow and I think we need to be sort of
consistent with that.
I spend a lot of time hiking on the Tin Mountain Conservation Center properties up in Jackson,
and they have very nice markers that are maybe inch and a half, two inch, round,
get a little picture of a hiker on them, and they're all color-coded.
So if you can order a box of blue, a box of red, a box of orange, yeah, check out Allison's map for the color.
that we're going to need, but I think that is the way to roll forward with this, because we're going to have some, you know, once we finish this, we're going to move on to the next one.
So I can order, I can look at the map, what we currently have for the color coding on those trails, and there's not currently any color signage on the Wendellmark.
the other one of the marsh trails, right?
No, there's not.
There are signs, but not color-coded.
Well, would you like you to have ordered the signage for those other trails like you're mentioning and get those all signed up?
Yep.
But you need to get the colors on Allison's map.
Yep.
So I have to update the map first.
I can forward you the draft one that I had.
This isn't like the up-to-date one, but the colors aren't changing.
So I will send that to you right now, Math.
So you have it?
Okay, great.
Yeah, and then we can go back and forth, and maybe we can find a lot as for the trail,
and then I can order those signs that we can zip around for me in the summer,
so he's perfect for this type of activity.
And the Jennings Trail I did is purple, but we can always change that if we need.
I know purple may not be an easy color to get.
Yeah, I can look at what you have, and then I can compare it to what is available.
that boss signs.
Great.
You know, look for something similar like you had mentioned from Tim Mountain there.
They've got something similar to that.
Contact Lori at Tin Mountain.
And she will, yeah, she will start you down the path to finding colored markers.
Tell her I say.
Okay.
Lori at Tin Mountain.
Great.
That's, yeah, so the trail is, I think, a really nice addition to that.
that network out there.
And for Wendle Marsh while we were working out there, I did have, I did look at some of the boundary
and I had my summer technician kind of review the whole boundary.
And he did send me kind of a write-up, and we have a map as well that's kind of annotated.
As we had mentioned, or we had mentioned, there was some potential issues along the Eastern.
He did see some signs that, you know,
there could be some refreshing of blazing and paint along some sections of the eastern boundary line.
In addition, he did note that he thought that there could be more town forest boundary signs
along most of the boundary.
You know, they're at kind of an inconsistent interval spaced out.
He also mentioned that there are small.
I mean, the current town boundary markers are fairly small, and some were not super visible to him, but, so that's maybe something to consider for the future.
Maybe when there comes in time to order another round of town forest boundary signs, maybe we can, you know, go for a little bit larger of a sign that's maybe a little bit more visible.
There's the eastern side mostly that can be a little bit more visible.
could use a little bit more of a refreshed blaze with some refreshed paint.
But you didn't note any, you know, major, like, very significant gaps across the whole boundary with relative ease.
I did see some areas that could use some touching up.
I can share the refreshing of the boundaries, do any brushwork you think is needed, and then paint them after, if you re-blaze, you know, paint them when they're dry,
fall or next spring, but I would think we'd want that up to date, up to speed, and sort of behind us.
Do we know if we have any town forest markers?
It's true.
I don't know where they are.
Where would they be?
No idea where they would be.
I think, I think Barbara had, she may have given me a, I think she gave me a, I think she gave me a few to add somewhere last year, but I think she had some.
If you're low on inventory or we don't know where they are,
it might be a good excuse to, you know, order some fresh town boundary signs.
And, you know, a good opportunity to make them just a little bit larger, too.
Just so people can recognize those town properties because they're pretty prominent and, you know,
visible from a lot of main roads.
Do they say son of being on them?
Yeah, they say Sonopetown Forest property or something like that.
They're green and white, right?
Sorry, I say that you, man.
They're green and white, maybe three inches, three inch round, four inch round.
Yep, if they have the town logo on it.
Yeah.
Should we have Allison reach out to Barbara and then get back to you for next month about what we have for inventory, what we might expect to be able to give you?
and then we'll talk about next month getting more if our inventory is very low.
And maybe think about it with the logo and...
I want to talk about moving.
I want to make sure we get this stuff.
I can send her an email, absolutely, or give her a call.
Okay.
So if you cover Windlemarsh, then we could consider those boundaries, up to speed, everything proper.
Okay.
Okay.
Great.
Any sign of trespass along the boundaries?
Any issues of debris accumulating?
Nothing that he noted, I can ask him again about if you noted any kind of, like, encroachment or any, has that been an issue in the past?
Yeah, if you could send us a little written report, that would be great just to have for a file as part of the record.
With kind of a few sections on the app to speak.
What did you find at Bartlett Tyler?
Have you done a whole prerequisite?
Let's see here. What do recommendations? Increasing signage along Garnet Hill and Joe's Creek, 150 feet.
Glazing along southeastern property edge, refreshing signage along interior, the edges, refreshed witness blazing on a couple corners, a few lot.
Was he able to walk these small out to Garnet Hill issues with in the past? There's a drive. Did he walk that?
He said, I have a little confused of what's going on here.
can we go back and look at this together?
I think you need to do that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a pin half in that right of way, too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Those two lots.
Yeah.
Boundaries I'll move to support with that then.
Been in contact with Tim O'Neill, and he said that they're still planning for
July to do the work at the entrance,
and he thought that towards the end of July
is when they can get over there to spend the day to kind of clean up that entrance.
And we're still in the meet in advance of them moving over to do kind of a final walkthrough.
I'm not doing.
We prepare just a simple contract.
We can get that contract 15, 20 days.
If he's coming at the end of the days, two weeks, and the insurance.
certificates that go with it.
Okay.
That sounds good.
Maybe Cliff isn't a automobile trail.
Hit out to the Stoneville Club.
It's in mowing.
You need to mow with a stoneville trail throughout the summer.
It would be also willing to maybe some of that.
I think it'd be a, okay, so it's a bigger number.
Yeah, it's a pretty big number.
Yeah.
It's a pretty big number.
Yeah.
It was less than that.
For something this small, you may be able just to directly reach out to them.
Okay.
And not do like a formal, you know, bid request.
But if you have names on a list that you're like, hey, I just want to drop a few lines to get a few options, that's perfectly fine.
Okay, so the minimum for the three bids is five plus, I believe it's $5,000.
Yeah, I can double check that, though.
Okay. Well, that's nice because. Yeah, I hear it was a little bit.
Yeah, right?
Yeah, a couple thousand.
I would say we get Tim in there maybe, you know, by the end of July, having to be. You know, by the end of July.
do the tree work. And if we're not seeing any activity or no follow-through from Cliff or
snowmobile club is not interested, then maybe we get somebody there in August, September.
Okay, that sounds good. So we'll just hold on that until a little bit later. Okay.
Allison, does the town use any mowing services?
Not necessarily. We have, like, seasonal help that help with mowing. They've been doing, like,
the cemeteries and things.
of that nature. We've previously done bids for mowing, and that was, I think, Breyer Patch was the one doing it.
But they did all over town, so it was a heavier amount, and that was a bid process that we did.
But we hire seasonal help, and I believe that's what Craig has right now.
And they're not set up the bush hog and field.
Not that I know of.
Yeah, they're more the...
Potentially, though.
Yeah. Okay.
Give me a long more.
Yeah.
And I'm thinking, you know, I think it would be nice to brush the whole field in the fall,
but to maintain, you know, a mode path that, you know, is done, you know, every month, you know, in the middle of summer.
So it's nice and walkable.
So there might be two different groups there, two different individuals there, but, but
we can a walk or something there in the fall, so maybe we need to time that the timing.
I was going to bring that up.
If you want to do like a ribbon-cutting type event there and like a walk around,
maybe time it with how it's mowed and when it's mowed so that it's kind of at a pristine point
and then walk through.
Yeah.
Looking trash.
Yeah.
And if you're going to mow, because I don't know if it was decided, if you mow both meadows at the same time,
or if you do like the upper and the lower on alternating schedules,
because I know we had talked about doing like every other year at one point for wildlife purposes or something,
and maybe that's like a teaching thing that you do is you have one field that's mode, one that's not,
and you say, okay, here's our path, and this is why we do it that way.
I don't know.
That sounds good.
I don't know, just things I know we've talked about in the past.
I don't know where we landed, but.
It's where we landed.
So are we talking about October?
Were you trying to get somebody?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We'll see if we're going to have that.
Any, on that note, any update on the kiosks for...
Especially if he could get some help from the town installing them.
Oh, cool.
Is he going to go to the bench, too, for the lookout?
No, no, no, we're going to buy Ben.
I think we have a guy who's not here.
Put on flip's plate while he's not.
Tony.
Clark, the neighbor, first driveway on your left, there's a log cabin.
We met briefly concerns, trees that are concerned about.
So what he invoiced to me is that out along the edge of the field near the Stonebill Trail,
that, you know, he's concerned may fall, runs on that on that.
For walking in the, uh, where we just, we just,
did kind of select to stay after, you know, quite a few trees were going to move along
that, that edge, including some of the trees that were previously.
Him or a previous owner, one large sugar maple tree that's right, kind of in that laying
in there that was topped at some point, kind of mentioned that to him, just I observed, observed
that, and, yeah, he didn't recall that, but, um, he didn't, but, um, he didn't, he didn't recall that, but,
There's a large sugar maple there, and then there's kind of a younger oak and, like, two smaller sugar maples.
So we looked at them and I didn't feel, I just said that, you know, I didn't feel like they were a major concern for me, just looking at them,
like, for potentially falling on the data lines or falling into the field.
and so, you know, that's, from, from my perspective, that I didn't, I didn't really see, you know, see that as a major concern.
You know, he, he basically was just saying that he, they were concerned to him, and he would offer to have them
removed when he was doing tree work on his side, you know, at his expense.
So that's, that's what he was, he was offering, you know, these trees, and, you know,
in, in your view shed, is that, is that, uh, another concern of, you know, he said that it's not a primary concern, concern of his, but, um, his upper deck, um, and he did look at, did look at the view, the base by boss, by the way up.
Oh, my God.
He was all good, but, um, yeah, I mean, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the four trees are, are in his view shed of the, of the lake. Um, I'm not sure. Um, um, I'm not sure if the, if the, the clearing,
that we did, um, you know, rabbi etch actually improved some of the view, um, because we didn't
move quite a few trees, tall trees that were right in that lane. Um, I did suggest, recommend that,
you know, he, he has a view and recommend that, you know, maybe he talked to someone that could, you know,
heavy bronto mow or, you know, cut and chip, um, you know, some of the younger trees that are growing up in
his, his view, um, and, you know, maybe, you know, maybe the town would consider doing a little
bit of pruning on, on some of those trees at his, you know, at his expense.
Um, from me, I think, you know, I just try to hear what he, what his concerns were and look at,
look at the trees.
Again, the concerns are kind of like safety and, um, at least his express concerns are like the,
the safety of, you know, people walking on the trail.
or snowmobiling and then the data line, um, which, you know, they're near, um, but I didn't
really see as kind of like an eminent, uh, for me and from my meeting with them.
And I spent, um, the edge of that field. So I think they stand. I think the safety and,
you know, data line thing is just fabricated in my mind. I think you did a good job. You met with
them. I think we stand pat and move on. Nice work. That's done. I'd like me to reach back out to
or Allison, do you want to, do you want to reconnect with him?
How do you want to do that?
Well, with I.
We're going to text me and I'm texting with him, so.
Well, if you're able to send an email saying, thanks for meeting me out there and, like, showing me the trees.
I brought all the information to the Conservation Commission.
They feel that the trees do not need to be removed based on our assessment of the health of the trees.
So it is at the time of the trees.
this meeting, the determination that they will not be removed.
Is that accurate to what we've talked about?
I think that's accurate.
I just think coming from you as you've met him and saw the trees, I just think that would be great.
Yep. And I did, I did share a contact for someone who might be able to help him with the trees on his property.
So, you know, maybe he can go that way. I get, I think just, I will do that for sure, and I'm just
I got to. I'm just given how he's
communicated in the past.
I might anticipate him coming, you know, coming back with, you know, some additional thoughts
or requests, but I will follow up with him.
Yeah, I think you want to email and you want to have a trail of kind of the decision-making process
and not sort of a personal text message back and forth to decide town business.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah, of course.
And then you can tell him in that direction.
direct email. Any further questions can be directed to me because then I will bring them
to the commission as they come because you don't speak on behalf of the commission.
You just work for and report back to if that sounds good.
And he should copy you on the email.
Yeah, yeah, please copy me. We have that email chain going, so if you're good with that,
that'd be great. Yes, I will respond in that email chain to him.
Perfect.
Okay. All right, well, that's all I had on my
My short list, is there any other items on your list that you wanted to check in about?
Have you laid out a Barbara's loop yet on the north side of Seven Hearts Lane?
The trail.
I think we're still on track. We're still on track to the Halloween opening.
Let's get a trail on the sugar bush through the sugar maple.
Yeah.
Out and around that little 10-acre parcel.
Yep, so we did, after, actually, when I went to me,
up with Tony. We did do a quick little scout, and then I had my summer person start to kind of look
at that area. He's got some good trail background, so he's pretty skilled with that. So, yeah,
we started looking at it and, you know, started kind of keying on a couple of neat features
for that trail.
And I think the old Route 11 is just such a nice feature, too.
It's such a cool section of that old road.
You know, it's paved, and there's, you know, the white birch,
paper birch is kind of leaning over it.
It's really, you know, a pretty stretch of that road.
So I think that would be kind of the spine of a trail.
You could walk down that and right off, dip into the woods and go through a loop.
and then come back to that, that Route 11.
So, yeah, the plan is to lay that out,
and we can get something sketched in that, you know,
our group that's interested could go walk and approve.
Yeah, put some flagging out.
Yep, we'll flag it out, and then you guys can walk it,
and once approved, we'll cut it, cut it out,
and get it all, sit through it.
Get your billing.
Nice.
Well, do.
Okay.
The mail.
So four DES permits, and this will tie into under new business, too.
We did have three shoreland permits by notification.
The first one is five homes lane, and that is where the Georgia's Mills pumping station is for New London.
They had a permit by notification for the replacement of a generator.
So 450 square feet is what they're looking at there.
For 102 Burma Road, they have also a shoreland PBN for 605 square feet of shoreland disturbance
to install a 20 by 23 foot pervious patio and a 25 foot by four foot pervious walkway.
This I haven't seen any plans for.
It would require local permits, so I'll be interested to see what comes next on.
this one, because we do regulations on patios, especially within the first 50 feet,
and they can't be more than 10 feet from a structure.
So just seeing 20 by 23 foot is a little curious to me.
And same with the pervious walkways.
We allow four-foot wide walkways, but the total length is limited by your amount of frontage.
So, again, I haven't seen the plans, so I'm just putting it out there, that stay tuned.
82 Woodland Road, also a permit by notification for 1,300 square feet impact of the shoreland
to provide maintenance to an existing drainage swale, apply new stone, regrade the adjacent area, and install plantings.
Again, local permits would be necessary.
I haven't seen this proposal as of yet, so we shall see what comes of that.
having a lot of fun with, especially permits my notification, because they seem to go very quickly with their approvals.
For example, one was submitted on the 19th and was approved by the 25th, so within the week.
And I didn't know it had even been submitted yet, so, yes.
And are a lot of these people doing the work without getting the local permit?
Not necessarily, because what I find, especially with permits,
Like, DES permits, they're good for so long.
I may not see them for a year or two.
Okay.
Yes.
It's tough to track.
It's also, I'm not at the point whenever I grow up big and strong, and, like, I have a good process.
I would love to be able to run these reports and then just send a quick letter of, hey, just so you know, we saw your DES permit, and there's local permits required.
I'm just not at that point yet, I'm having enough time, but I would love to do that one day.
The other one was a wetland permit by notification for 1090 Lake Ave up in Georgia's Mills, and that was for a dock replacement.
This one, I did see the property owner came in, submitted the plans, they gave me signed copies of the PBNs.
It was fantastic, so no concerns there.
The town doesn't really oversee the dock installation or concerns, but just things I continue to struggle with and other towns seem to be struggling with as well since I've reached out.
So we're not alone, but we're going to chat.
So what to do about the state?
They do send the town clerk certain notices when things are submitted and when things are approved.
It's just not consistent with what and when.
So, for example, especially for PBNs, they get submitted and approved in such a short amount of time.
I mean, we're seeing like a five-day turnaround time on most of these that will maybe get a notice.
that something's been approved, but not that it's been received, if that makes sense.
With the larger shoreland permits, the full shoreland permits, we'll get notification that things are received,
but then I still never receive a paper copy in the town office, which doesn't exactly make sense to me.
And I can't always track down the contractor, or I don't have a contact for the contractor to ask for them.
So I don't know what else I can do from the state perspective. I've left
messages, emails. I'm sure the state may be a little bit sick of me as of late.
And maybe there is. Yeah, but maybe my name's on a wall somewhere and they're like,
don't contact the town.
You're representative to the legislature.
Potentially.
Many hours and a day.
They don't have a pet with what they got from the state and haven't followed the town rules.
It's okay.
No, absolutely not. I mean, we have compliance for a reason, and there's been plenty of projects.
more so with tree cutting than I see with any of the other projects, that we have an after-the-fact
process and then replanting, if necessary, and a whole kind of line of events that need to happen.
For a lot of the shoreland permits, I'm less concerned about, I'm more hopeful that they will
come and get their local permits. That's more common just because these projects are more involved.
I'm more concerned about the fact that there are permits.
going out that this conservation commission isn't even being notified of. You don't have a chance to comment. You don't have a chance to look at them the way that you used to. And then also, whenever they are sending out a butter notices, on all of those abutter notices, they say there is a copy at the town office for you to review, and I do not have a copy at the town office. So I'm not sure what to tell abutters should they and when they have come to inspect those plans.
So I don't know if DES needs to review their rules and change how they're enforcing them or start to enforce them a bit more because they're just not being followed.
And I don't think it's anything intentional.
I think it's there's an online application now so people are just submitting and going through the steps, but maybe not checking all the boxes, if that makes sense.
So that is more so my concern.
Most of the time, knock on wood, we're getting local permits eventually.
It's just the commentary period is not available for us whenever they're submitted.
That's my takeaway.
If we want to jump down to that new business item, since we're talking about the ESS 7th.
Yeah, minimum impact.
Surprise to everything I just said.
I do have plans for this minimal impact wetlands permit.
It is for a boathouse proposal.
I sent you all.
There was a little write-up from the engineer, so hopefully you had a chance to review that.
I have the full application packet here.
There are, let's see, I believe two places for you all to sign.
Three, actually.
Whenever someone is putting in an expedited minimum impact for wetlands, it requires the town clerk's signature as well as the Conservation Commission signature,
once they've reviewed it and they feel okay with it.
I'm happy to review or answer any questions. One note I will make for this, permit
by notification. It, I believe, was rejected because there was concerns about expansion
of a non-conforming structure because they're looking to put a rooftop deck on a boat house.
So the permit by notification, I think, has been rejected and will need to be resubmitted with
elevation drawings because they didn't submit those. And I think that's where the confusion came.
So just so you're aware, I'm not sure where this wetlands permit is going to go.
When I look, scan through this, it seemed like they're putting a rooftop deck on top of a boathouse,
but they said they weren't going any higher.
There was no, so I was trying to conceptualize how does that work?
Well.
Building a flat surface and then making their sort of flat roof below the deck.
Exactly.
Yeah.
There's not like great photos of the boathouse that I can show, but maybe this is kind of the best one.
So there's a slight pitch to this roof. It's a little hard to tell. My assumption is they take the entire roof off and they lower it so that they can get a deck and flatten it out and a railing so that it does not exceed where that maximum pitch is, where that peak is.
That's my assumption, but again, I think because they didn't have elevation drawings of the existing version.
proposed. That's why DES also had a problem with it. That's my assumption. I don't know for sure.
So I think there's probably a little bit more information that may need to come from this. But I do have all of the applications,
the permit by notification application, and all of the plans for you to review, which worked because I had in a butter come in and inspect them today.
Oh, the system works.
It's very flat. Yeah, it's not heavily pitched.
Oh, I have to put a roof over the top of the deck.
Oh, my. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure.
So why do they can put a deck in top of a roof and you slow alone?
Yes. So again, I think there's more elevation drawings to come from a town perspective, like local regulations.
As of last year, I believe it was, this year. Yeah, this year, we, there was a vote.
on the ballot for a zoning amendment to define maximum height.
We had a definition, but there was recent cases where exactly this was happening as they were putting
on a rooftop deck, and the zoning board and planning board talked about is the top of the
railing the maximum height or as the bottom, like the deck portion?
The deck itself.
The maximum height.
And what was proposed and then voted on was that the top of the railing counts as your maximum height.
So from a town perspective, we would also expect that the top of that railing is no taller than what exists there today.
And that's what we would look for in elevation drawings.
So they're going to have very little clearance inside that boat house if you're calling the railing, the top of the structure.
Unless they get a variance from them. But I don't know if that would fly with...
It's a stairway.
I don't think the stairway would cause issues from a...
Well, that may be part of what's expanding their footprint.
But the town has a definition for a minimum, or sorry, a minor structure.
If it's a 32-square-foot platform and no taller than four feet for the steps to get up,
it's a minor structure and isn't considered as expansion of the structure.
So, and I think there's different avenues through the state that kind of follow that as well,
whenever we're talking about accessibility.
So if we sign, that means it moves on and then DES,
makes a determination. Yes, for the wetland permit.
For the wetlands permit. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Is the wetlands the link?
The wetlands is like that exact shoreline. It's whenever.
Yeah, that's the shoreline. There's no other wetlands on the property.
No, no, not like establish wetlands for what you're thinking of.
Whenever you think of wetlands, yes. Yeah, whenever you're directly on that shoreline and over the water,
that's a wetlands permit. And then any disturbance on the land piece is the shoreland.
I know it's confusing, but.
What's your thoughts, folks? Should I sign off and get this in front of the EF so they can then review and make the determination?
What we're signing off on is the well-ins. Yeah?
Not this one. No. The permit by notification, as I mentioned, I believe it just came in yesterday that it was denied, but I can double-check that.
So is well and paperwork in order? Everything is there?
Yeah. I mean, it's in order to the extent that
everything that I was looking for would expect is in there.
But I'm not sure if they're going to want those elevation drawings or not.
From a wetlands perspective, I'm not sure why they would, but I don't know.
Does wetlands talk to the people who denied this?
I mean, is there any conversation between...
I have no idea, truly.
My gut reaction is probably not, because I've definitely seen some permits get approved,
some get denied, but they're...
for the same project, but different...
Different permits.
Right.
So, I'm not sure.
I think in the past what we've done is signed off and say
DES is in charge of the next step and the enforcement body, not us.
Unless you want to go out and look at it, but we...
Authorize the sign?
No, I don't want to sign?
No, I don't want you.
Never.
Never.
You're signing.
I'm not authorized the chairman to sign the previous application.
Can I steal that pen back?
Oh, I'm sorry.
We get one pen in the whole group.
Sorry.
I'm going to have to restack my cup.
I used to have like a bunch of pens in there.
You can't be stealing them.
Probably.
Well, it won't be valid.
I should say it was a rejected shoreline permit by notification, not a denied, sorry,
because of the elevation.
Because of the elevation.
drawings.
So they have the option to resubmit.
Yeah.
And I don't think, I'll have to actually ask this question, but I think if you get denied a shoreland
permit, you can always reapply if you address their reasons for denial or reject.
Unlike the zoning board.
If the zoning board says no, then you can't come back unless it's a substantially different
project.
And that's for any new owners in the future too.
Yeah.
Nidju's decisions go with the land, like forever.
like forever.
It's a long time, you know.
It is a long time.
All right.
Thank you for that.
Okay.
Very good.
So peer review?
Yes.
There's no cases before the planning board, so I won't be too long-winded.
There are three cases before the zoning board.
First case is 27 Garnet Street is looking to add a deck on the front part of their property.
of their property.
So going down Garden Street, they're on the opposite side from the water.
The reason they need zoning board approval is because they're going to be potentially in the front setback
of the road.
It's a special exception and what they have to do is prove that within 500 feet of either side of the property,
that other properties also have a lesser front setback, so not meeting the 40 foot setback that's required.
So if this is required,
loads, I can show you that sketch.
I know.
It's a big agenda.
There's three cases.
I think that's why.
Let's see here.
If I can show you the sketch and give you an idea.
There we go.
So, for this drawing, this is the existing house.
This odd shape is the property line.
It's quite an odd, interesting shape.
It's quite an odd, interesting shape.
This house exists, and right to the edge of the house is 40 feet
from the center of the road.
road, so their deck, which is 8 feet in towards that setback from the road, would reduce it down to 32 feet.
It's in the shoreland, so it's within 250 feet of the lake, but it's on the opposite side of the road.
So it doesn't have all the same lake setbacks and whatnot, but it does have the lot coverage restriction,
no matter what.
Questions, comments, concerns on that one?
No?
The other two don't relate too much for conservation, so I'll be quick.
be quick. 247 Prospect Hill Road. This is where Prospect Hill Antiques was located.
They're asking for a special exception to use this space from the retail and this space from storage
as what's determined as a recreation facility. The way they came to the planning board as a consultation
is they had asked if they could have art classes, pottery classes, things of that nature,
where people come and do that at the property.
This is in the rural lands district, so it requires a special exception to allow a recreational
use where people are coming to do any type of activity like that, and that's in the zoning
ordinance. Question, comments, concerns on that one?
No? Okay. And my last one is 477 Edgemont Road. They are looking to have a short-term
rental in the rural residential district. I don't know if they have,
actual pictures of the house. I don't see them. That's their parking plan. But it's a two-bedroom home,
so that allows up to five occupants. And the biggest things that we look at from an
environmental standpoint, as the health officer, I look at their septic system. They had a state
approved septic system in 2020. We have the documentation from that, so that's kind of the big
environmental factor here. Anything? And they're the same guys as peer review. There's no
cases before the planning board this month. But last month, we were talking about the zoning
amendments. And the one amendment that I do want to keep in front of you guys and continue to talk to
you about is the wetlands amendment. So I've talked to you a couple months ago about the possibility
of amending our wetlands regulation in the zoning ordinance. For those of you who may not know,
if I can get our GIS to load two,
We currently use the NRCS database as our wetlands overlay.
And basically that tells us where there's poorly drained soils and very poorly drained soils.
And for the most part, it's not a terrible system that we use and process that we use.
However, what I find from an application standpoint, there are portions of these wetlands
that looking at, you know for a fact they are not wetlands.
And then there are portions whenever
I'm standing on a property looking at it saying, I know there's wetlands here, but
they're not on this map. So from an overlay standpoint, I can't require that 25 foot setback
from those areas. What the amendment is essentially proposing to do is instead of using
the NRCS data is to move to the NWI wetlands, so that's the National Wetlands Inventory
map, as the database that we're
regulating wetlands with. What this does, and it's a little bit hard to see, let me
turn off something so that it makes it a little bit easier. Here is the current overlay
that we use for wetlands is in the orange and kind of dark red, and what we would be
using is in the purple. What we found, and Michael and I have gone out to a lot of
these sites where we know there could be significant wetlands. We're not calling them
prime wetlands, we're calling them significant wetlands.
And we recognize that they align really directly with these maps and where it's showing us that our current NRCS data doesn't line up with.
So this addition to the NRCS data?
Is it going to be separate?
It'll be replacing the NRCS data. So we would remove the NRCS data and just use the NWI.
It is a lot more fine-tuned. It's a lot more exact.
It, the way we have it written right now, and we're going to deline
between significant wetlands, important wetlands, and then minor wetlands.
And the reason for that is whenever we see these beautiful, significant wetlands,
again, we're not using prime wetlands, but we're putting it kind of in that vein,
is there was a survey done by you all in 1993 of beautiful wetlands in town that should be protected.
With those wetlands, there would be a 50-foot buffer.
There are, I want to say nine different of those wetlands, and I can pull up the survey and we can look at them.
One that I looked at that I was so enthralled with was on the back of Sunny Lane.
If you go down there, you can see a beautiful wetland and it connects to,
we have that town land that comes off a trail hill road that protects a good portion of it,
but on Sunny Lane on the back end of those properties,
it's a stunning wetland with standing water all the time.
the time and we want to make sure that has that 50-foot setback because that's very important to protect.
Those are the types of wetlands that we want to make sure are very critical and are protected with a 50-foot buffer versus the 25-foot buffer.
Or in some cases where the NRCS data may not be vast enough to cover, it wouldn't have a buffer at all from a town perspective.
So how are you defining the three various wetlands?
What is the criteria for defining significant and important?
important ones, as mentioned, are from the 1993 survey that we have from the Conservation Commission.
The important is what's shown on the NWI map.
And the wetland has to be at least 5,000 square feet in area to fall in that category.
So what that does is we're getting larger stretches of land to protect as a wetland
versus these little pockets that we sometimes see that show up on our wetlands map.
So that would maintain, the important wetlands would maintain the 25 foot setback.
Again, using the purple that you see on this to define that 5,000 square foot of size and for the 25 foot buffer,
outside of those that are significant that have been surveyed and we have from 1993.
And then for the minor wetlands, these are deemed to be jurisdictional but don't reach that 5,000 square footlands.
square foot size. So we're not requiring a buffer, so similar to the state going up to the edge of those.
And the reason for that that we see is that they're not significant, they're not large in size from a protection standpoint,
restricting property owners from building within that area may not always be protecting what we're looking to truly protect and force on.
So questions, comments, concerns on this general outline that we've started.
started or feedback.
So your ground truth they know of the N-A-W-I, how accurate has it been, because they did
a lot of that with aerial photos?
Yeah.
So is it been accurate and what you observed on the ground?
Yes.
We've been going out and we've been checking on these sites specifically and it's been extremely
accurate, like impressively accurate to what we are seeing and comparing that with the NRCS data,
it's capturing more significant areas than what we may not have been captured.
may not have been capturing before.
Your photos, NRCS is just modeling of materials, basically.
Yep, and I have found in so many cases where you'll have a stretch of wetland for NRCS,
and it's actually shifted like 20 feet this way, and for a lot of properties that make such a difference.
And I sometimes, it's hard from an enforcement standpoint saying,
I need you to go get a wetland soil scientist to tell me that this isn't wetlands when I'm looking at it.
I recognize I'm not a wetland soil scientist, but you know,
It's not wetlands.
It doesn't have any of the vegetation, the soils, there's no standing water.
It just, so being able to field verify the NWI has definitely been reassuring from an enforcement standpoint that this is a much more accurate process.
And why are you avoiding using the term primary wellings?
So prime wetlands comes with a long list of criteria and requirements whenever we're talking about building and
talking about building and the setbacks from them are pretty intense.
So doesn't the town have to vote on a prime wetlands designation if you go down that road?
Exactly because there's federal requirements that trickle down if you want to enforce something like that.
So calling them significant wetlands again aligns with what the Conservation Commission back then has identified as these are important enough that we should be protecting.
So through the zoning ordinance amendment, that's what we can do.
The process with this, as I have time, I want to essentially run the overlay to see how many properties are affected by the NRCS and then how many properties are affected by the NWI, just for pure curiosity to see whenever we've implemented the NRCS data, how many properties was that impacting for a setback standard and then how many would this?
My gut reaction just based on looking at the maps and understanding where they lay out.
and even ground verifying.
There's going to be less properties affected by the wetlands overlay using the more accurate data.
But there may be a few more of those minor wetlands that maybe we weren't capturing before.
And it's just going to be more fine-tuned.
So I think overall it's going to be a net to maybe a positive increase of those not affected.
Does that make sense?
So are you picking up streams through this or is
just the wetlands there?
Just for the wetlands, we're just picking that up.
Whenever we talk about the streams and everything,
it's in the master plan that over the next two to three years,
we want to update what our water bodies and streams and all the orders of streams,
how they have setbacks associated with them.
So that is in the next few years we want to start with wetlands
because it's one that we just find so much contingency with.
contingency with currently and one that is applied a lot that isn't always accurate and it's very tough to enforce.
So we wanted to start there and then do all the streams. So that's our next step, probably next year, if not the year after.
There's been discussion about buffers and what's permitted in the buffers or not permitting the buffers?
Yeah, so as we have it right now, there's a 25-foot setback from the NRCS data unless it's delineated and told elsewise that there's not
not a wetland there.
And so for the significant, it's a 50 foot setback.
There's nothing allowed in that 50 foot setback.
Same with the important ones that are 5,000 square feet,
but not recognized as the significant from the Conservation Commission.
Those ones require that 25 foot setback and nothing's permitted in that 25 foot setback.
So the folks who own that land are going to have a surprise.
Well, we hope that we can communicate this out and this is well established and
Everyone's part of the conversation for zoning amendments.
But, yes.
I mean, as of right now, I know for the one on Sunny Lane, if I go up,
you see, I know it's a little bit tough to see with all the overlays,
but this is essentially the edge of what the NRCS data is,
and this is now proposed for the NWI.
So there is a bit of a difference.
The biggest difference that the people would see here is that 50 foot step back potentially.
potentially versus what we currently had.
But the other flip side of that, these folks here for this leg of it,
we also include for the 25 foot setback.
That 25 foot setback would go away and come back to where the actual wetland is.
So that's downland anyways.
Yeah.
Yeah, but even through here, from a development standpoint and residential standpoint, right?
standpoint, right, if we're looking at any housing or anything back there.
And the same goes for in this area, right?
That would be.
And same with here and even up.
These legs that we get up here, that takes that away.
So that's a beaver swamp.
It's been there for a while.
They periodically, has an AWI updated that?
Are you just going to, as a beaver swamp changes, is not that?
So, hold on, let me turn this off quickly.
Because looking at this, this was all created just from beavers?
Yeah, there was a dam down in there.
You can see the old trees mixed in there.
The beavers, it was a wetland, but the beavers expanded it.
Okay.
Yeah.
Which they will do.
They will, yes.
So from the NWI standpoint, I mean, if I turn that back on,
now that you see the visual, I mean, you can see the visual, I mean, you can see
see where it lies in the different designations, but from even the
the 1993 survey, this was on it, and about this size.
Yeah, so it was between our own survey and just being out there,
this is what would be enforced.
So under the previous, under the RCS, like 9-7-96 in Fieldstone,
those would be almost unbuildable law.
unbuildable lots.
It would be tough.
They'd probably have to get potentially a wetlands crossing from the state,
and then would have to build back here, whereas now this one, this one,
and all four of those would be...
Now they're built.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
No problem with the change that's not taking without conversation or anything.
What do you mean?
Well, you're creating a zone then that these people can't.
it building that wasn't there before?
So essentially, if there's an existing structure in that setback,
that's pre-existing non-conforming, essentially, because whenever we adopt these ordinances,
they come into effect for that year and then for future building.
So I'm not going to these people and saying, you have to move your house 50 feet that way.
That's not what applies, but for any future building, they would have to meet the zoning ordinance.
So that would make it not.
they would just have to conform from that.
Yeah, yeah.
So for example, if these ones came to meet today as the ordinances,
I have a 25 foot setback unless they have it delineated
from the edge of these wetlands for all of these properties.
What it would be, should this move forward and be approved by the voters,
these lots wouldn't have to meet the standard of what on the flip side,
these lots would need to meet for a building perspective.
Does that make sense?
No.
So there's definitely give and take and we recognize that.
The NRCS data, whenever we adopted it for the wetlands regulation, was in 2020.
And I think we've just kind of learned and seen from the applicability of it.
It's not accurate enough that it's helping residents and it's not helping wetlands either from a protection standpoint.
Well, a lot of that's forced with wetland.
Yep.
Yeah.
Apple Hill is like a good example of a lot of
is the wetland up there.
And some of it, yes, you could definitely recognize,
and then other portions of it if it's pockets in there,
the protection of it kind of dwindles.
So this is the intent is to put this on the Warner or March?
Yeah, so the planning board's talking about it right now,
and I just wanted to keep you all aware.
Last month was the first kind of rendition of this is what we're thinking
after we've worked.
It was Michael.
and then we were working with Aaron Darrow from right angle engineering.
She was helping out.
We went through, we had a couple different wetlands reports from the town
that were done between the 1990s and early 2000s.
And then looking at the survey from the conservation
and actually going out there to say, okay, is this here, is it not?
Does this make sense? Does it not?
And that's where we landed.
So planning board will continue to take it.
board will continue to talk about this because they don't have cases next week.
This will be their only kind of topic of discussion will be the amendments.
And then there's a few others.
None that I think affect from a conservation commission perspective, any of you as of yet.
But I wanted to keep you all apprised of the wetlands.
Okay.
The wetlands is much better, but you're losing the forest of wetlands
and get away with the NRCS data.
But it's more vivid.
visible with N-A-I and N-E-WI.
That would be a beautiful.
Take a walk out there when it's frozen.
I was just, like, shocked because you drive right by there all the time and you don't see it.
And then you finally kind of take a minute down Sunny Lane, and I'm like, wait a minute.
And it's just, I mean, I think it's gorgeous.
And there was another one up, um, off a Perkins Pond Road way back there.
I don't think I ever would have thought to look back there, and it's stunning.
So, it's certain areas like that that were like, wow, these would be very impactful if all of a sudden we're building in these areas.
And Eversource is working in that one, too.
Yes, yeah, and that's where they're putting all their mats and everything.
Yeah. All right.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Yes.
If there's any more questions or concerns about it, please let me know,
but would love for you all to be included in that conversation because I think it's important.
Trail mapping.
Yes, Cliff never sent me the ledge pond.
So I will get the updates from Matthias and we'll work on the color coding, and then we should be all set for Wendomarsh, at least.
And kiosks are in the works, and the bench is in the works.
Yes.
I think for the bench, the one thing, so you've all approved, $690, $590.
Did he ever come get a check and give it to stock?
No, so that was my question is, I need to know the exact purpose.
price, like whatever that is, and then I need a mailing address technically for Stalker,
like the name, who we're putting it to, so then I can put in a check request to then get
the check cut.
My plan was then once the check is cut, I will ask for it back before it gets mailed because
then maybe we can just deliver it because I know they don't hold or do anything like that.
So I just wanted to take it to them rather than putting it in the mail and waiting.
Cliff said he was going to go back and check to see that the same thing.
bench was still there.
Okay.
And then there was also questions for the granite blocks up at Highway, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mike said they're not for anything in particular.
So if there's a granite block that you want, I did ask him.
And he said, yeah, they're just in the pit.
And I was like, they have to live in the pit.
And he said, no, do you could take whatever you want.
I say that cautiously.
But if there's something up there that you wanted, potentially, that would be an option.
And then I asked about.
a post hole digger.
He's not sure how Craig did it, so potentially they could dig the holes, and that wouldn't be a problem.
And then weren't we going to ask them about, could they install the bench?
I don't believe they do.
I don't think you'd find the stock.
Oh, Mike would.
Mike is for, if they would, if they would move it, I think move it, and then install it.
Well, I know Cliff had said he could put it on his truck or something like that, but then getting it out
to the field was the question. I'm not sure.
Yeah. If I have the information, I'm happy to ask Mike and be a bit more direct,
but sometimes I go to him and then I ask him these questions, and he's like, well, what about this?
And I'm like, you have no idea.
All right. Do you mind reaching out to Cliff and just say, and where do you think we're at with this bench?
Yep.
What's his bench?
I will reach out to him for the trail mapping and the bench.
Okay.
Any other business has happened?
time approaches. Oh, my gosh,
already. Can I
just say one quick thing? New business.
I got a very nice letter from
Tony Dolan,
the chairman of the select board,
about the Japanese
Notweed Task Force,
thanking us for doing that
and taking their project on.
So I sent it out to the 20
or so people that work on me, and they
were all very pleased to get that,
so I just wanted to report that.
Very nice. And your project in front of
the library is...
Kind of moving along. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. We're working on part of the hill,
not all the hill, because we just
don't have the volunteers
of the strength to do it.
But we started planting some native plants.
We tried some smothering techniques.
We've tried some hardware cloths.
So I've had a few people out to look at it.
And, you know, they say, oh,
well, let us know how this works.
You're very experimental.
Are you doing the work by the Riverwalk
and the old livery?
Yeah. It's kind of part of that, but it's not
my particular project.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, they're having some issues with the...
It looks like it, like a lot of materials
moving off their tires.
Yeah, it's a steep slope,
and they're intending to
create a tier system.
Yeah, well, you guys were involved in that, yeah.
But I don't know the timing of when that happens.
So, in the meantime, things are kind of
sliding down the hill a bit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you're coordinating with that, but it's not your project.
Well, it's kind of under the umbrella, but it's not
what I particularly work on.
We have the same problem with the library because of the slope, you know,
up the hill and so forth.
So, yeah, it's tricky.
Okay.
Okay.
I think we can adjourn.
Okay.
Oh, it's good.
I don't have to watch the soccer.