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CIP Committee Meeting 9/09/2026

Video

We're at the uh CIP committee meeting
September 9.
Let's get started here with uh some
attendance.
Okay, we have Mr. Johnston here
and Mr. Milligan here. We got Mr. Percy
is here. So, we have all of the
committee members. Bob Henry and you
weatherbeby and Jack Wmack and Monica.
Okay. All right. So, um let's see if we
can get to this guy.
So, this is um Sal's attempt at minutes,
which is
ridiculous. Of course,
>> now
>> Mr. Mr. Yes,
>> you you So, if you record this and
transcript it, that will help.
>> I did. We do that all. That's how I got
this.
>> Okay. All right.
>> That's how you
>> I finally got Monica. We finally got
together and got it up.
>> Oh, good.
>> When was it?
>> Yesterday sometime. In the afternoon.
Yeah. We finally got the recording up so
I can actually go in and do it,
>> you know. And then I took Mr. Milligan's
advice, which is and Mr. Roger Law's
advice, which is to not say too much in
these things. Let the videos speak for
themselves.
>> I move to prove the minutes without
reading.
I'll second it. Wave the reading.
>> Yeah, I move to wave the reading and
approve the minutes.
>> All right. So, there's nothing
>> second buried in there.
>> Discussion. Yes.
>> All right. Is there any uh discussion
about it?
>> There is one one area I'd like to
discuss.
>> Sure.
>> It's like in the middle it says it was
agreed that we should carry that we
should add
>> Yeah.
>> cemetery and buildings and grounds
equipment needs to scope.
>> Yes. Well, to my recollection, taking
each of those one at a time,
>> the
buildings and grounds,
um, there is no buildings and grounds
CIP category. There's a buildings
category. And I think all I recollect we
discussed was moving the one pickup
truck from highway department
>> to the buildings, the existing buildings
account.
Just a move of one truck. We did not
talk about adding any other buildings
and grounds equipment to the CIP plan.
That's that's my recollection.
>> We'll talk about cemetery in a minute.
What does everybody else think?
>> Is that the only piece of equipment they
have?
>> It would meet the requirement for your
CC and your 10 grand.
>> So, as far as buildings is concerned,
yeah, the pickup truck was the only
thing we talked about moving it from one
to another. We didn't talk about adding
anything to the plan
>> and then the zero turn was above that.
That should have been the ground. If I
if I may.
>> Um Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought that was
cemetery. I'm mistaken. Um, so we didn't
talk about adding anything to CIP plan.
We just talked about move from highway
two buildings. I think that should be uh
reflected that way as a as a
>> change of category.
>> The only other cemeteries does have
>> Oh, we'll get cemetery. I didn't get I
didn't I'm sorry. I was just for a
minute. It does have the Ford tractor up
there which would be in excess of
$10,000.
>> So I wanted to discuss cemetery though
separately. We don't have a current
cemetery CIP category.
>> Correct.
>> Now I agree. You're right Scott. There
was at least one piece of equipment
there that's over $10,000. We talked
about the mowers cemetery and we said
they were quite a bit less than $10,000.
>> So there was no need to worry about the
mowers. We thought, but there was the
tractor. Now, the question on the table,
I'm not sure we agreed, is do we need a
cemetery category,
but that's easy to but we don't have a
se a cemetery capital reserve bank
account. So, what good would it do?
>> Not sure you actually need it.
>> That's what I don't think we actually
need it either for that reason.
>> Think if you just keep it in public
works, you know, you this equipment is
kind of funible. We're going to use it
anywhere we need it.
>> Yeah. and and with the cemetery trustees
recently reconstituted, we don't
actually know what that pattern of
expense maintenance and planning is
going to look like,
>> right?
>> So, I don't think it would be a bad
thing to wait a couple of years and see
because
>> I don't think so either, but I was just
trying to get the minutes correct.
>> It's still town equipment. it's paid for
by the taxpayers and and and I think if
you have if there's a more broad
equipment category for that sort of
stuff, I think it it allows that
flexibility and that fungeability. I
think the last thing you want to do
right now is is is get department
administrators to think that it's that
they own that this is theirs and nobody
else's.
>> And we want to share everything we buy
because we don't want to be be buying
duplicates of everything if we don't
need you. So very respectfully, if I
may, all I'm trying to do at the moment
is get the minutes from last time. Yeah.
>> A little more accurate.
>> I didn't think we we agreed to add
>> new stuff to the scope. I think we just
talked about transferring
>> uh existing equipment to other
categories
>> is what I thought. And Jack, I totally
agree with you, but that's a whole
another discussion. It's not the
minutes.
>> So how should the minutes read?
>> Um
it was agreed that to move film
equipment for cemetery and building and
buildings and and buildings
um to their to appropriate categories.
That's all we talked about doing is
moving stuff. We didn't talk about
adding anything to the plant, right?
>> Cemetery buildings and grounds equipment
needs to other departments to other
departments
>> to to existing categories or
departments. I don't care. Departments
is fine. to existing departments.
Period.
>> Sorry, but that's all I had.
>> Is that it?
>> Yeah, that's it.
>> You don't have to be sorry. That's all
you had.
>> No, no, I'm I mean I'm sorry spend time
on that.
>> Okay. So, uh can I get a motion to
accept as amended?
>> So move. So move.
>> Second.
There's lots of people saying things
somebody would second.
>> All those approved.
>> I Good. Thank you very much. Okay, we're
done with that guy.
>> I will uh I'll post this.
>> Don't worry about take care of it. Post
it somewhere.
>> Just for thought on that.
>> Don't forget to remove the word draft at
the top. Tell me you do that right.
>> You think I should?
>> I got spanked for that the other day.
What? Just for thought, what we did end
up doing in Enfield is all the equipment
in these categories, it's all listed as
say public works
and some of it will say like water and
sewer.
We don't even list one as cemeteries.
It's all all the equipment is all listed
under public works because we got into
that territorial
problem. Yeah.
>> So, I I totally agree, Scott. I think
there's no harm in having all the trucks
in one department. Yeah. And they get
a little bit here and there.
>> That's fine. That's what I think we
should do.
>> Yeah. Because we put
>> like public works. Yeah.
>> And then underneath it might say water
department or water,
>> whatever. Yeah.
>> Or highway.
>> But when you do budgeting,
>> keep them all in one place and
maintenance. When you go to mechan
most of them. Yeah.
>> All right. Um, that being done, does the
town minister have any comments that he
wants to add to the Frey amendment?
>> Um, no, I don't think so.
>> Okay.
>> I know we're still struggling with
updating some things.
>> Yeah.
>> And I'm I'm still work we're we're Steve
and I are still working on that. And
>> you know, I think let's just talk about
that at the moment real quick if you
like. Um, to me it seems like the only
possible I'm sorry I missed that
meeting. I got stuck at the hospital.
Sorry. Sorry. Claude did a great job the
way was supposed to do.
>> Claude did fine. He was reluctant to go
without, but we forced him into it.
>> Good. I have every confidence that
Claude was capable of doing.
>> He's good. We know Claude.
>> Yeah. Um, but at any rate, uh, so and
you saw our comment recently. We wrote
back about why it might not work, blah,
blah, blah. So I think the in my mind at
this moment what we need is someone who
does who can manage that Excel
spreadsheet
>> make the changes.
>> How about Aiden?
>> Well, he's at school.
>> I know he's at school, but you have to
ask.
>> It wouldn't take him more than, you
know, an hour or so to do the whole
thing because he knows how to do it.
>> No, I wouldn't object to that. We just
pay him on the side when he's at school
if you want a little work. Uh the I I
guess I was thinking and I don't know
because I don't know those formulas.
>> Yeah, me either. Um he didn't understand
them quite
>> on that point if I may.
>> I used to use formulas in Excel a lot. I
looked at those formulas. They're way
over my head.
>> Okay. It was I wasn't sure of that
either because you had more experience.
>> Yeah. I didn't get to say because he car
together. She might be willing to find a
few minutes to help him figure it out.
That's my thought.
>> Yeah. Um
Yeah. Okay. But we're running out of
time.
>> I understand.
>> We are. If I made one more comment, you
based on something you said a few
minutes ago about the recordings here
that they would help through email
traffic. I mean, I agree that's okay if
somebody could listen to recordings
tomorrow or or this week, but to wait
till December
puts us way way way
too late. We need to do something
quickly. I'm picking up most of them. I
can assume that the recordings in
December,
>> you are keeping track of the changes
that are made.
>> I have them. I'm ready to do more. You
know, I'll get to them over the rest of
this week. I'll actually write up the
rest of them last prior meetings after,
you know, and then do today's
>> Yeah. if there's anything to be changed,
but I don't think there's going to be
anything in the CIP plan and that tool
that is going to be affected today. But
I can do that and I'm happy to do that.
>> Yeah,
>> I've already
>> We certainly want to keep track of them
because at some point
>> I got them and I'll, you know,
I have to do um write up government
buildings, bridges, and culverts and
highway.
>> Y
>> that's all the rest of them are all done
already and been sent out. So been sent
out.
>> Maybe.
>> Yeah,
>> maybe. You commented on it at one point.
>> I saw one talk and check with just on
the side.
>> Yeah, I'm sure.
>> True. Do you want me to do minutes or
no?
>> That you have ability to get hold of us.
>> Yeah. Unfortunately,
>> you want them.
>> It's like a bad penny.
>> Well,
not clear on what's going on.
>> Well, what what I think what you would
do is somehow you'd get the transcript.
>> Oh, sorry. and and then you could kind
of call it or review it or whatever I
guess if that's I mean the idea that
Garyianne suggested and and then I and
I'm going to
>> pretend to understand that whole
integration but was that you'd get a
transcript of the meeting which would
record the decisions made and then you
could extract from there rather than
keeping a manual list.
>> Right. Yeah. But there are no there are
no votes that were made.
>> Okay.
>> Right. There's no voting going on. So,
she's going to use AI to search for
vote,
>> you know.
>> Yeah. Okay. That that won't work because
it'll have to really
>> Yeah.
>> parse the point of order only. May I
take a minute to summarize because I can
see what Tom said. He wasn't here at the
last meeting and I can understand why
none of this will make any sense.
>> Sure. Go ahead.
>> This this this discussion could be
summarized in like one sentence. It was
a discussion of how how and who to
update
ex the spreadsheet planning tool. That's
what we're talking about. How do we get
that thing updated? It hasn't been
updated yet. Here we are into September.
There are there's no new information in
there. So, this one was a discussion
about who and how can we get that
updated.
>> All right.
>> And and the answer is
>> Jack's still working on it.
>> At one point I was told not to put so
much detail in the minutes. We don't
need that detail. Don't put it in there.
>> Now you're changing your mind.
>> No, no, no, no, no. All you'd have to do
is write what I just said, which is
there was a discussion about I'll update
the spreadsheet. The answer is Jack's
working on it. It's all we have today.
>> I think what Tom is trying to figure out
is should he put more detail into the
minutes or continue to do what he's been
doing. I think the answer is continue to
do what you've been doing.
>> Yes.
>> Well, then are we over are we doing it
twice then by putting the detail in
another somewhere else?
>> Oh, no. Those are numbers. What I talk
about is the numbers, the actual
yearby-year numbers that all get added
up to bottom line totals and compared to
bank account balances, the project of
future balance in each account, all that
stuff. That's that has never ever even
with you ever been in the minutes. Those
are financial numbers.
>> So
what's the point then of waiting taken a
transcript off of the meeting?
that person would that person might
>> maybe there is there may not be any
because just based on what Sal just said
with respect to the method or the manner
in which the decisions are made they're
more fluid and
they kind of just flow into the
dialogue. So I'm not sure AI could pluck
them out. I I had my doubts about that
too, but
>> yeah. Um, so the answer is probably
nothing.
>> So take the minutes and
>> the way you've been taking
>> or later,
>> okay?
>> And we'll be fine. Rest of this will
work out. What I have to do is I have to
write up now. Um, normally what would
have happened is when Chuck was here,
he would have taken the changes and made
them to the spreadsheet right then and
there. Now someone has to tell somebody
these are the changes to be made. Okay.
>> Right. So, I go through I've been doing
it. I can do it. I I go back and like
you said, I'll go back to the thing and
go through and make sure I get all the
numbers right and everything right that
was discussed. But then I write
something up
that details.
Change this, delete that, change this
number, blah blah blah blah blah.
>> Force somebody to update the
>> somebody to actually update the
spreadsheet.
Okay.
>> Yeah. Yep. All right.
But but I agree that the easiest way
might be to simplify the formulas in a
typical Excel spreadsheet that is more
pedestrian able
something like that. I don't know what
that is yet.
>> Well, I tried that in the past. Where I
failed was on inflation. Couldn't figure
out how to do the inflation. Well, it
wasn't just it's also, you know, we used
to do so really should get through this
quickly, but the um well, what happened
is that uh in the old days when Mike
Samson had his spreadsheet, right, is uh
he would then do it and we would look at
the projected numbers that we needed for
each year and it was not uh evenly
spread out. It would be, oh, this year
we need 500,000, next year we need
100,000, the next year we need 250,000
versus
200 200 200 kind of thing. You know what
I mean? So
>> the new spreadsheet tool actually does
that. It evens out and makes sure that
your square business,
>> right?
>> And and those are really policy
decisions. Do you want to follow the
demand or or level fund it and then make
your adjustments to the structure of it
within this the standing finance
package?
>> Right.
>> If I could my opinion on I think that
the spreadsheet as Kianne fixed it and
gave and turned it over to us on June
30th is a good tool.
>> Yes.
>> It's very fancy. It's very complicated.
It's over my head. But that doesn't make
it bad.
>> That's right.
>> I think it's a good tool. It does the
leveling. It does the recommended
appropriations. It handles inflation.
>> It handles tradeins. It's a good tool.
And don't get me wrong, I'm not
criticizing that tool. My only reason
why I ever suggested the old basic Mike
Hampton type tool was for this year
because we're up against it.
>> But that's a good tool if we can find a
way to make that work. Get somebody like
Aiden. Yeah. or that other outside
person we talked to to that can handle
that with a little bit of advice from
Kianne maybe.
>> Um because what I think she left us on
June 30th is a really good tool.
>> Don't disagree.
>> I I don't want to be misinterpreted as
as as
um denigrating that tool. It's a good
one.
>> No, I understand.
>> But but none of us can handle it.
>> All right. So, um review of the transfer
station requirements. Let's move on to
there anything in the CIP that we need
to include in the transfer station. We
normally have uh commented on the
transfer station.
>> So in the past we did include it in CIB
plan things like the compactor and all
that they were way more than the
threshold.
>> So we have included them in the past.
Whether you want to continue to include
them right now given that
>> I don't think they'll be
>> the whole operation might get upended I
don't know that's up to
>> I don't think there'll be a dramatic
uh evolution in the transfer station
given all the other projects are going
on I I can only handle so many projects
at one time but ultimately I do want us
to tee up a
I'll say a fairly significant
redevelopment of the transfer station
operation
That's going to take people that know
more about landfill operation, the
transfer stations operation than I do,
and that's going to take some months to
put together. And that ultimately will
be something that Ryan will probably
pick up and we'll walk down the road.
So,
>> I I wouldn't see a CIP impact until
2027.
And that'll not only give us a chance to
scope out what the operation ought to
look like, but see what sort of money
might be available to help fund it. Mhm.
>> So
>> yeah,
>> I think the only thing to consider in 20
27 would be um would be operational.
>> So it's it be premature to put anything
in for the transfer station at this
point.
>> Well, from a capital point of view, I
I'm open to Bob's thoughts, but um
I'm I'm I don't know.
So we actually have a meeting tomorrow
with
the mechanical the ones that were in our
trans our compactors originally.
>> Okay.
>> And just did the new one. Went to Kuso
is a guy is coming meet with us tomorrow
morning about
I could see it be the cheapest quickest
way is just lowering that existing
compactor so we can use
cans.
getting the price on that, getting a
price on replacing those open tops with
a couple compactor cans and going from
there because we're already paying can't
just get different ones. Just lowering
that, leaving it where it is, build a
deeper hopper would be all it. Um
because coming in winter the mol
everything's gonna freeze everything
full of snow and so we got to do
something and that would my thinking is
going to be the cheapest way probably
just longer wires longer hoses just
getting it down. So I'll we'll have more
information and I meeting with him
tomorrow at 6:30 in the morning. So at
least we'll have he'll give us an idea
what what that's going to cost and if
it's feasible. And he's another one.
They they build these things all over.
So he sees a lot of them. I mean, yes.
Is the layout still funky? Yes. But
that'll get us through the winter
and get where we can actually use our
compactors.
>> Yeah.
>> So for a little perspective, two things.
Number one that we do not have a bank
account bank account for transfer
station.
>> Correct.
>> What one thing Jack maybe you want to
talk to selection? I don't know. Maybe
one should be created this year with,
you know, through the March ballot.
Maybe you want to have a capital reserve
bank account
>> to fund future transportation upgrades.
I don't know. You'd have to get the
voters to agree to create it in the
first place because it doesn't exist.
>> But I Yeah, I don't disagree, but I
think it would be appropriate for me to
tell them what the plan is first.
>> Well, okay. I think we have to know what
we're appropriating for. And then my one
other comment is in past years we looked
at some of the big equipment like the
compactors and the tractor trailer that
was used all the trailers you know and
looked at the future and said gee we
need to we're going to need to replace
that tractor trailer you know six years
from now and it's going to cost big
monies. So we we I don't think we want
to lose sight of equipment.
>> I'll be back and sit in our meeting.
>> What's that?
>> You should start coming our meeting. I
don't think you want to hear that stuff.
>> All right. So, for the um transfer
station,
all we did was a little blurb that says
no additional expenditure is planned at
this time other than the replacement of
two small buildings,
>> you know, and then yet there select
board is undertaking a comprehensive
review blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah. So, we don't really put any
numbers or anything in.
>> And I think that's what we're saying
this year is that for the transfer
station, we're going to say basically
the same thing. I'm going to get rid of
the replacement business about two small
buildings. But the select board is
undertaking comprehensive review all the
options available for rep use, including
possible outside contractors. If the
select board review concludes that major
equipment will be needed, that equipment
will be included in the highway
department CIP reserve plan. That's what
we said last year. So, I think that's
what we're going to be basically
>> and that's where we're still at.
>> Thank you. Okay, good. No objection
there, are there?
>> Did anybody ever look at that trailer to
see if it was repairable or
>> We're all good with that.
>> We haven't got to that. Yeah, it's Oh,
it's repairable, but it's going to cost
a lot.
>> Well, that's what I'm just
>> Yeah, that's on our list for guy to get
in the the heavy trailer.
>> Is that a compact or is that just a
hauling trailer?
>> No, no, no. The highway
equipment.
>> No, I was talking about the compact
trailer.
>> Oh, the compact trailer.
>> No, I don't. That's
>> We got the signed off. That's going on
the auction block Wednesday.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, it was going to be Yeah. more
than we get. That was where the fix the
whole
>> Does that mean we need to buy a new one
or just live without one for a while?
>> That's why we're kind of looking at
going this other route right now to
temporarily
>> figure out what they're going
>> temporarily how to live without it.
>> Yeah. And I mean, is that what you're
saying?
>> The only reason I ask you right is, you
know, we get numbers on what it will
cost to temporarily go to boxes. You add
the hauling fee to it. Mhm.
>> Are we looking at, you know, a
significant savings over just replacing
that trailer at this point?
>> Yeah. Well, we'll know those. I mean, I
don't know what a box cost compared to
the open tops because we're renting
those now.
>> Yeah, they're hauling.
>> Anywhere from about six to 10 grand
where you're getting them and the
quality of them on a 40 yard
>> to buy to buy.
>> I'm talking about rent to sell
>> right now.
>> That's what I'm saying. as far as
there's an outfit uh down outside of uh
Lebanon, New York
>> that manufactures.
>> Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, we can. I mean,
that was our next
>> Yes. I tell him back because I got one
out of there before
>> because I knew about him in New York.
>> Once we get a idea from Winter, you
know, the compact go and I was going to
work on
>> see what it is to either rent or
>> replace and then they'll still have to
haul it for now, but that's fine. But I
mean, they haul it now. So,
>> well, that's the only thing I say ask is
that where we're at on that. I don't
know if guy got hard numbers, but I mean
that whole frame being aluminum, it was
just gone, you know? It's just
>> that acid just eats trash acid corroded
and leaned out.
>> And I know that any welding we tried to
do on that trailer in the past.
>> Yeah.
>> It's hard because on the molecular
level, it's just into the metal so much
that it hits and it just
>> doesn't weld. Yeah.
>> Can't get a good weld on it. Okay.
>> Yeah.
I used to repair uh do the welding on
rubbish trucks,
>> putting new floors in.
>> That's a challenge, right?
>> It is getting them clean enough.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. The the
contamination that you just talked about
acids that actually impregnate,
>> right?
>> Because aluminum is even worse than
steel for being porous.
>> Is it really? Wow.
>> I mean, the other thing we got to factor
in that too is availability. basically
drivers and stuff keep going that same
way versus
>> there's a lot of variables in it right
now. So
>> that's for sure.
So that's transfer station. We're done.
Next would be
>> sewer and water.
Just again
really do much other than comment on it,
>> right?
>> Yep.
>> Yeah. It's not NCIP directly.
>> We basically say it's funded by use of
fees grants, not tax revenues and it's
being managed directly by the town's
administration.
The only thing it is right now it is
being funded by user grants and
taxpayer
monies
but that ultimately is yes that's true
but uh that money needs to be repaid
back at some point in time. Is that
correct? So it's more like a loan than
it is a actual cost
>> in in theory. That's exactly how it's
supposed to work.
>> How far out is it?
>> The other thing is
>> 2121.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, yeah. You know what I'm saying? I
mean that's I don't know if that's you
know
>> and what I can also tell you at these
it's what it's whatever the town decides
because the last project that I worked
on
was a one-third grant money one-third
user money
>> one-third town money
and when this system was originally put
in
>> the federal guidelines were that the
town was responsible
for the infrastructure
and uh users were responsible for the
operations.
But it can it's left up to the
municipalities
as to how they want to set that up. But
when it was originally put in because
that was all paid for through bonds and
stuff which was and grants which was
taxpayer money and federal grants.
So, it's whatever the town's people and
the town decides what level of funding
those.
>> If I could ask one question,
>> um, little background, I believe at some
point a long quite a while ago, like 20
or 30 years ago, the town decided to
fund this entire system through grants
and user fees alone.
But my question is before we made a
decision, which might be the right one,
to use to truly use taxpayer money to
pay for a portion of this,
would we need to go to town meeting with
a with a um what do you call those
ballot initiative? You know, uh
>> I'm not we need a warrant.
>> Let me help you out. All right. The end,
the last line in our comment on this,
the town administrator is developing a
long-term capital plan to establish an
enterprise reserve fund to support
future replacements.
So, what we were saying last year was we
know we got big expenses coming up,
right? We knew it. We said this $300,000
is one of them in here
>> and that uh there was a plan to be um
put forward in the context you're
talking about. to establish a reserve.
>> Not quite. There's a different There's a
difference. I understand that.
>> Okay.
>> And I've seen there's a newsletter that
goes out every week with a flashy mail,
which is that the town administrator's
current plan to increase user fees and
so on to better support the system.
That's not my question. I don't think I
made my question clear enough. before a
decision is made to use taxpayer money
pay for a portion of the water and sewer
system. Will we need a warrant article
for the voters to approve that?
>> And the answer is obviously yes.
>> That's Oh, you say obviously. I didn't
know. It wasn't obvious.
>> Well, we just did it last year with the
EMS credit.
>> Okay.
>> Right. As we established the reserve
fund for them. Do you remember the extra
$250,000
or whatever?
>> Yeah.
>> Right. So the town approved last year
establishing a uh EMS reserve account.
>> So it's going to have to approve
establishing water and sewer.
>> I would imagine it usually
remember
EMS your water sewer any enterprise fund
is has its own accounting and supposed
to have its own revenues right through
fees or whatever help. But ultimately
they're still owned by
>> still the town.
>> The town.
>> Yes.
>> As taxpayers. So, and this is where
we're at. We are currently as of last
week to bring water and sewer in
compliance.
$261,000.
That does not include
the upgrades of the wet well. Mhm.
>> So that we're in the situation
dees wants redundancy in the upgrades,
fail safes. That's probably going to
raise that replacement another$100,000.
>> Wow.
>> So when we're all said and done, we're
looking at up around probably 600 to
$700,000
just to get everything back operating
and in compliance,
>> right? Ultimately
that's taxpayer money that's paying that
because
you would bankrupt the users to put it
all on them.
>> Understood. But that's
>> we are looking at going for the state
revolving grant now for the uh the wet
well
simply because of the time factor
permitting and design approvals through
through dees. We're looking it'll be
after the first year before we see any
of that. So we might just well go for
the revolving
funding because those are decided early
spring is when they
>> Yeah. So,
>> so I think the point is that what we
were saying here in what we were trying
to say here I guess is that uh you know
the town at various points in time may
be stuck with a bill.
>> Mhm.
>> And we should have some kind of an
accounts that
>> Well, we brought this up last year that
there is no
no CIP reserves to even look at,
>> right?
We've got over 200 tanks out there that
all have lifespans.
>> Yeah.
>> We're finding some of them are under
roadways that are currently being driven
on.
>> How many more years of abuse is it going
to take are they going to take? Were
they H20 load rated tanks that went in
there? We don't know.
>> We're trying to get that all
established.
>> Yeah. Right. So, what I'm saying is that
at some point in time, right, you may
want to go to the town and say we should
establish a uh it's here
>> um an enterprise reserve fund for the
water and sewer.
>> And we should because we're also looking
at the fact the last figures that I see
and I don't know what they've come up
with now, the sewer treatment plant was
only operating at about 42% capacity.
We already know that we're nowhere's
near the capacity of what Kanan Street
Lake can provide us for water.
>> So, we really need to be looking at an
enterprise fund because both of these
systems can be expanded which adding
more users makes it more affordable to
operate
>> because more people are helping.
>> Right. Well, that's why you and John
were looking at bringing the water up to
Kanan Street and bringing it out to the
Dollar General, right? I mean, that was
the thought process.
>> Yes. Yes.
>> Yeah. And the other thing is, you know,
that the economic development committee
has recommended that, you know, wants to
work to try to figure out how to help
get people in,
>> right? And we're fortunate in that we
now have somebody who's uh Did you guys
accept the um bid from uh Muskoma
Preservation Valley on the project? We
have not uh we have not finalized that
yet.
>> Okay. And uh you know that you and Satie
gave Jack and I the go ahead on moving
forward with Gary Anderson on the
Wildcat.
>> He's ready to do that deal. Uh Jack sent
me a note. Um I mean Gary Anderson,
>> he's ready to do that deal in a
heartbeat, by the way. He's he's
chomping at the bit. Um
Jack sent me uh today
text me or did he No, it was an email.
Um
the issue at the moment um
was uh okay.
So, uh, Christina and Donna have to
rumage through the documents in the
attic to find the taxdeed info, and
Christina needs an avatar technical
assistance
to look at records from 2014. Jack's
checking on the status, working as best
as they can given the staffing
constraints. Um my last conversation
with uh Gary
was what triggered that was I said Gary
called me last Monday. We spoke about
the log cabin property. He's only
interested in exactly what we want him
to be interested in which is the
property 15A-32 which is the cabin and
the one acre.
>> That's all he wants.
>> Love that plan. Um let's see. He had
Mary his, you know, helper. Mary who's u
who's a son to daughter there runs the
you know helps out. She did an
assessment. Uh the back building will
support a second story in their opinion
at the moment. Um and that's what
they're going to use for apartments. The
back building, the front building would
have to be completely redone in order to
do apartments on top. So they're mostly
going to leave that as a one floor.
That's their current plan. He's already
researching title issues. So, he's been
doing that on his own.
>> Yeah. The the biggest thing we're still
going to have to do.
>> So, we got another user maybe.
>> Yes. Biggest thing we've got to do still
>> is we've got to get an exact number of
what it's owed to the town.
>> That's what they're trying to
>> Yeah. Because we also had the problem
that was taken and contested.
>> Right. So you also have those legal fees
and everything that can be added into
Yeah. But this is also a prime example
of the changing occupancies that are
affecting these both of these systems in
town that we either need to get a review
on it from when it comes across to the
building inspector because if you take a
place and you put three or four
apartments into it and it was a single
family home with two bedrooms that
changes the whole bedroom thing. Now
it's dumping onto our septic system.
It's like all right so what are we doing
here? you don't have to look at this.
>> See, that's why I'm bringing it up.
>> Especially the way our system works
because
>> it isn't like you just flush a toilet
and everything goes up there.
>> You know, it's only a gray water system.
>> State
and state septic is up to three bedrooms
with a 1250 tank. But when you start
>> like we did on Kanan Street, the one
building has five apartments in it,
still one tank.
So the only the only thing you can do
there is you have to increase the
frequency of pumping
>> or increase the tank which the tank
should have been addressed when the
approval was given. And the this is this
should be brought to the attention of
the planning board for when these plans
come in to make sure that they planning
board never ever gets to vote on a
structure like that. covering up a
building. That's that's the building
inspector.
>> Now, the PL plane board looks at land.
You move the lot line. If you combine
lots, you know, land allocation, but
never the structure.
>> That's that's building inspector
>> only.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I've been on board for over
10 years now.
>> Never ever don't we don't have the
jurisdiction. Let me put it that way.
Playing board does not have jurisdiction
to tell
to weigh in on how a structure is is um
is configured. That's a building
inspector thing.
>> And that's good to know though because
they used to overstep their bounds then.
>> Maybe they used to but we haven't
through it.
>> Yeah, I've been on here 10 years. We
have not dealt with building needs to be
>> addressed as capacities for
>> my guess was John Bjon. But yeah,
>> that's my my everything I've ever seen
is the planning board looks at land
allocation and land use but not the
structure itself.
>> So the same same situation that's right.
You turn the back of that building into
apartments.
>> Yeah.
>> The front of it turns into a retail
restaurant. There better be a grease
truck going in that thing. There should
be but again it's not a planning board
thing.
>> Yeah I'm not saying plot but I'm saying
the planning
>> I agree with you totally right
>> that needs to be part
of the certificy going on
>> and see this is this is where the
building inspector
fortunately he's up for the challenge
because there's been a lot of comments
out there about look at what I have to
fill out to build my house. It's not.
The comment was Kaan does not have
zoning. No, it's not anything to do with
zoning. It's state and federal building
codes.
>> Building codes and all that. Yeah.
Absolutely.
>> Yeah. And Yeah. And those are the
jurisdiction of the building inspector
>> and Ted's done a good job as far as
bringing people getting the attention
out there that this isn't the wild west.
that when you build a place and plan on
selling it, it had or living in it, it
had better be needing building coats.
>> Correct. Building coats. A wide variety
of Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, in any event, in terms
of this guy here, uh, you know, he's
willing to start moving forward. So, we
just got to get him some about the
purchase price. All these other issues
can be discussed if he agrees that
that's a fair number, you know.
>> Yeah. Because what we had talked about
was where the town can only recover what
is actually owed to the town.
>> Yeah. And that's all we need.
>> Then
maybe we can do it as a contractual sale
to him that this is what we expect.
>> Yes.
>> From this break in price.
>> Right. Absolutely.
You know, and I think that that's
something that Well, I'm telling you
what he's his thoughts are currently. It
seems reasonable.
>> Yes.
>> I mean, obviously he needs to comply
with any building codes, building
things, whatever, you know,
but I think he knows that. I don't think
that's uh
>> and Parker Steel property has been
officially sold.
>> Yeah, I saw them working around. What
are they putting in there? I have not
had a chance to actually get.
>> So,
>> I was out there today making an
appointment,
>> but Todd was in and out. Tommy was
nowhere to be found at that point. He
was out and busy. So,
>> yeah. I'm just curious what they're
going to do there.
>> But they're doing a pretty healthy
cleanup of the site.
>> Well, I would have I would imagine,
right?
So, that's good.
>> He's got something in mind.
>> Yeah, I bet. Oh yeah. At one point, why
would he buy it, you know?
>> No, I'm saying cuz he before they had
even when it came up that they were
moving
and uh
>> yeah, they were going to sell the
property, he had already been up there
and made him an offer.
>> Well, he's smart. It's business. Yeah.
Know what he's going to do. Okay. So,
from a uh water and sewer perspective,
what um the lang what language we use in
here? By the way, it said the sewer pump
station needs some meaty repairs, 10
grand. The entire unit will be need to
be replaced in the near future, 6 months
to two years at a cost of around
300,000. So, we already knew that there
was a $300,000 ticket showing up last
year,
>> right?
>> And we didn't know half of it.
>> We knew half of it. That's exactly
right. But
>> that's as much as we knew a year ago.
That's just a wet well.
>> I'm just I'm just saying that 300 just a
wet well
>> and we're coming up on that figure
because of dees's redundancy
requirements.
>> Yeah.
>> Which wasn't mentioned in the meeting
which wasn't mentioned in the meeting
with the state.
>> You just use the same language but leave
out the dollar mouse.
>> Yeah. What I'll do is I'll draft
something, you know, and then I'll get
uh Jack to, you know, run it by
everybody and say, "Is this the language
we want to use?"
>> I think Tom's wondering for minutes of
what he what he's going to write down
about this
>> for minutes, not your final report.
>> I understand. So I think for minutes I
think what we would say is uh that South
draft something
>> and pass it by the number
>> administrator for
>> regarding the water and sewer
capital
>> requirements. So we're really writing
the annual report then on that.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. Because that's all we do is just
do a little blurb that's in there that
talks about it. We don't actually do
anything yet.
So, whatever the plan wants to be, we'll
I'll work the language and that's what
we'll ultimately wind up in. But we're
not whether or not the select board
wants to bring to the town creating a
reserve account for, you know, water and
sewer. That's up to them. Okay. It's not
something
>> So, I have a question. I mean, I don't
know if CIP because um water sewer does
have their own equipment like they have
a vehicle.
>> Yeah. They have four pieces of mobile
equipment. Right. Right.
>> They have the the pump truck. They have
the uh Kabota tractor which is kind of a
frontline rig and it like needs to be
replaced. So how where did that did so
did that money come from the enterprise
fund originally or how would we go about
how would I go about getting that
replaced?
>> I don't
>> because it's like the and the direction
it seems like we're going is we want to
put all this stuff under public works,
right? So what's the step to make that
happen?
>> Right of
>> So there probably wasn't John told me
not to but John said that oh that's
doomed for a replacement but I don't
understand where he see that because
it's not in a CIP the tractor you know.
So I was like
>> well that's why when when we created
this uh new version of the mechanics
report we tried to get all the equipment
that we have everywhere.
>> Right. Right.
>> In this document so at least we know it
exists.
>> Right. Right. you know, we know it
exists, but I guess my question is how
how do I get it replaced?
>> My recommendation, and we might have to
go through, you'll probably have to go
through the board to get it,
>> is to have
these piece of equipment because that
Kabota is used for a lot more than just
>> Yeah, that's a frontline rig. Yeah.
My my recommendation is that all of this
equipment
become public works equipment
>> and then it can
be used where it's needed.
>> That Ford tractor and the pump truck
were bought under the grant for that uh
sewer plant.
I have no idea if there was any writing
in that
when the monies came that they must be
maintained and replaced specifically for
that.
>> Well, it's been 30 years.
>> What's that?
>> The Ford tractor.
>> What did the Kabota tractor replace the
Ford and then the Ford got repurposed to
the cemetery?
>> Correct. Because the Ford the pump truck
came obviously to pump the paint.
>> Right. Right. Yep. And that Ford tractor
came for mowing maintenance later.
>> Yep.
>> Right. Which I didn't realize that
>> by way we need to replace that.
>> I just don't know how to go about it.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> I do not know
>> of the original.
>> Well, that's what I want. Yeah. I don't
want to get
>> it could be somewhere in that office.
>> Okay.
>> So, but a short and simple answer to
part of your question
>> y
>> is that up until now
>> no equipment for water and sewer has
been bought with any CIP money at all.
>> It's either come from grants or user
fees or whatever
>> which is what I zero has come from CIP
money up until now. I'm not saying that
won't change in the future.
>> All right. Yeah. Yeah. But until now, we
have not bought any of those any of that
equipment.
>> My suspicions are
>> that Kabota was bought through highway.
>> I'm guessing
>> it might have been fun years ago. Yeah.
>> But that would have been nice to know
because we would have just added it.
>> But we were always told it was
>> we were always told it was wooas and I
didn't even realize it wasn't the CI.
>> Right. So, I think that what you guys
are all kind of heading for is with this
new public works thing is all of this
equipment that's currently not been
>> CIP dollars, if you will.
>> If you put it under something called
public works and now it becomes CIP
>> public works part of the CIP plan.
>> Yeah.
>> If you will, then we can roll all of
these things in there. Okay.
>> And make, you know, the appropriate
reserve accounts for it. Now the
question then becomes if it becomes a
water and sewer piece of vehicle, if
you're going to use it specifically for
water and sewer,
>> right? Does the money get reimbured from
the water and sewer folks?
>> Right. That's one of my questions too,
right? Yeah.
>> Right. To replenish the funds.
>> Yeah.
>> See, I do know there were pieces of
equipment
that were bought with the highway block
grant money.
>> Mhm. which is legal to do as long as
that equipment
was bought for highway purposes
exclusively.
>> Mhm.
>> Which we also know even if they you uh
that excavator
>> that 160 excavator was bought with
highway block grant money
>> rather than put the money into the
roads. So, so theoretically, if you buy
a piece of equipment for highway use,
you say it's for highway use, and then
ultimately you sell it, if you will, to
the water and sewer fund, enterprise
fund, you know, that might be a way to
do it.
>> Yeah. I'm just saying that highway block
grant that year there was $96,000
withdrawn
>> from highway block grant bought that big
excavator, that 160 excavator. So that's
$96,000 that did not go into
materials that should have been for a
highway. It was a legitimate, but if
somebody wanted to keep track of it
because it was bought with highway block
grant money.
>> Technically, you can't use that. We are
to change
>> like we are now. That's ripping off the
water lines that we correct.
>> You can't use it on water or sewer. You
can't use it. You could if you sold it
to them.
>> Yeah, but then you have to show that as
a reimbursement, a revenue going to the
to the block.
>> I see.
Interesting.
>> You want to add another piece of
equipment on there since you're sitting
down?
>> I got a pontoon boat. I'll get you some
more information.
>> Yes.
>> So, unfortunately,
it's a gift
>> left up into the field and and very
nasty condition, but
it's a piece that they're going to have
to use because they got to get out there
and do their movies, check the intakes
and all that stuff. And it was gifted by
somebody in town and
and supposedly all the paperwork, the
title for that, everything are up down.
>> I just have not chased it yet. I mean,
they told me that she did all the paper.
>> Yeah. And it should be it shouldn't have
went to the sewer. It should have went
up down.
>> Yes.
>> She said it should left town. So, we're
all covered on this information.
>> Does it have oral lock so you guys can
look like a Viking ship getting up there
to put the movies out?
>> A bunch of guys would do that.
>> Unfortunately, I am very embarrassed
when I made that phone call to her last
week.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. So, um S will draft something
for this and then pass it by you guys
and then we can, you know, go from
there. So, that that's all we're going
to do on uh
water and sewer,
>> you know. Yeah. And, you know, kind of
looking at this back to the transfer
station and stuff, you know, the skid
steer. Well, we've got the Mac sitting
over there that was slid underneath and
that's not on the list right now, but
you know,
there may be other plans coming with
that here in the near future if we're
not going to haul it.
>> Excuse me. What
>> the truck that we just purchased to
replace?
>> Oh, the tractor trailer for hauling.
Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, I remember Excuse me. So, the skid
kit was bought with CIP money a few
years ago, I think, couple years ago,
right? 2024.
>> Yeah,
>> something like that. I think that was
CIP money. I remember that one.
>> But I don't remember CIP money to buy
the tractor trailer, the the tractor.
>> I don't think you guys money last year.
>> No, we did not use it because that was
an emergency purchase purchase,
>> right? Yeah. Interesting. I didn't know
that.
>> It's an asset piece of equipment. So,
that's another thing
>> that that needs
>> that I'm looking at is kind of comes
under public works everything and
>> Yeah, it does. Yeah, you're right. you
know, we're kind of redeveloping this as
we go, right? Yeah. So, it's
>> Yes. Exactly.
>> Yeah. And I think that
>> which is the way we've been trying to
head for the last couple years, but it I
think it needs to move faster as far as
being considered public works, you know,
one big and then you have your little
subdivisions, you know, but
>> Right. Well, that's a that's a
reorganization issue that really
>> right. But I mean board and that doesn't
have
>> I think it cleans it up for everybody.
It's not something that has to go to for
voter approval.
>> That's an in-house issue that I
>> we dealt I was involved with that
>> on the receiving end
>> that
>> that truck's water sewer. You can't take
it.
>> Well, I'm going out to fix your line.
Well, it it really gives
in and to prevent some of the stuff that
was happening in the past a lot more
oversight on some of this equipment and
vehicles and stuff, too. I mean, we've
gone to just change attachments on stuff
and then having to rebuild like full
attachment systems on rear tractors
because you have a lot more experience
looking at that when you're going to get
it or change it. So, in the long run, I
think this is a lot better direction to
kind of
>> I totally agree.
>> Go in.
>> Yeah.
>> And it cleans a lot of stuff up
>> because I had
>> I had two trucks
>> that were assigned to grounds for the
summer months,
but one plowed a route and one plowed
parking lots during the winter months.
So because they came directly under the
supervision of highway during the winter
months,
they were secondary. They had their
their job to do. They still had to get
my approval to do a lot of the work on
it. But during the winter, they were
under direct supervision for snow
removal. So that equipment
that equipment that was grounds
equipment during the summer was on snow
removal in the winter as were the
operators. So, I mean, you it's all
all intertwined because you're sharing
equipment, sharing help. It's like, you
know, this year was one of the first
years we had a dependable skid steer to
run.
>> I'll tell you, getting that skid steer
in around town's a lot easier than that
loader some days.
>> Yeah. So to clean up the bank like we
got it's
>> just
and it has a highway stick on it now so
I'll change it.
>> All right. So we we covered the town the
sewer the blah blah blah. Um
any other business
kick?
When do we do bridges? Next time.
>> We already did them.
>> We did them.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh,
>> two meetings ago.
>> So, did we just sleep through that
meeting?
>> I might have. So, wait a minute. What
I'm getting at is I don't remember us
knowing exactly what numbers go in what
years for bridges.
>> I think I have it somewhere.
>> I think you have that written down.
Okay.
>> Yes, we did that because we went through
>> because we've got the three replacement
bridges.
>> Mhm. And we had the discussion because
one of the things in there
>> was the north Larry bridge
>> is the north Larry bridge
>> that they requested an engineering
report before they would deploy money
for rails.
>> I remember talking about the bridges
conversation but I don't remember us
ever seeing a set of numbers that are
going to go into that spreadsheet.
>> I don't I don't know.
>> We have the numbers on the replacements.
We have some proposed numbers. We also
have
>> You've got them. Good. I'm good.
>> And we've got some areas. We just don't
have numbers yet because nobody has
produced them
>> that has been requested.
>> So, I think the punch line is that uh I
still have to write up
>> bridges and culberts
>> probably. Okay.
>> So, I'll get to that. And when I get to
that,
>> if you have the numbers, I'm fine.
>> We got two more talking about
>> we have two more meetings, right, to
clean up the messes that we've already
made.
>> Yeah.
So,
>> we do have a couple of open-ended
bridges because it's going to require
the services of HB, our engineering
firm,
>> to give us a number.
We've held off
hiring them for that until we get
through some of this other expense.
Well, you know, I mean, you know this as
well as anybody, but once you actually
put the U bridge out to bid, you can get
reimbursed.
>> Oh, yeah. See, this is
>> expenses, right? And this is why, if you
remember
a year ago, we had to appropriate
$300,000 by Warren article to pay the
engineering fees for potato road bridge
because we had no
>> unexpended
general fund monies, undesated monies to
do that. We will be getting that
reimbured
>> upon the bids being
>> put out. But
>> but you also have you also have to pay
that. Yeah. But you also have your line
of credit now that allows you to fund
that without accessing, you know, talent
money, if you will, right? You got a
line of credit for I don't know how much
they wound up, you know, having the line
for, but you now have that to basically
help your cash flow.
Chap was here at the time that we wrote
that article, you know, for and the
intent at that point was that we would
be reimbursed as we know that $300,000.
But by appropriating it upfront,
we get the reimbursement that gives us
that money to roll in to one of the
other bridge projects to pay for the
engineering because of that time factor.
That money
when it frees up, it goes right back
into paying an expense.
>> And the other one sell is roads. We
glossed over roads last time. You were
going to send a list, I think, to Bob.
>> Yeah. I was going to none of that
happen, right?
>> I haven't been able to extract that yet
from the current spreadsheet, but I
will.
>> I was going to ask you if I said I
haven't got that.
>> No, I have it on my thing. Roads sent to
Bob.
>> I'm glad I haven't long as I haven't
missed it. I feel
>> that's absolutely right. That's on me.
>> That's fine. But I will
>> I just want to make sure I didn't miss
it.
>> Hopefully I could do that shortly.
>> Okay.
>> I'll try to, you know, clear.
>> And I got a I got a text in Aid and I'm
just waiting for a reply.
>> Oh, yeah. Good. Yeah. Whatever he's
>> call him like the brother. I'll be like,
"Hey, does he live locally or in
school?" But he can do this
>> in Massachusetts. He and I he and I can
>> you can do it by
>> you know,
you know, we can do
>> because all Aiden has to have is access
to
>> Yeah. But he's Excuse me. I know he's
going to need to talk to you having
looked at your notes.
>> Yeah.
>> So, you can do that by
telecommunication.
>> Yes. Absolutely.
>> Good.
>> Yeah. And then if he has any needs any
help on how to get
>> maneuver the spreadsheet that's
something he can talk to Kianne about.
>> Right. Yeah.
>> And then Kianne doesn't have to talk to
me. That's good.
>> That's okay.
Um anything else other business?
I do. I have something. Um, we mentioned
this earlier on in one of our meetings,
but um
the uh economic development committee
and the friends of Kanan Village are
working on trying to figure out how to
get a sidewalk proposal
done.
And uh there was a meeting last night
um where we had the folks from the Upper
Valley Lake Regional Planning
Commission.
They've done some preliminary work.
Uh they have promised to give us numbers
on the
uh wish list if you will. the friends of
Kanan Village, you know, they, you know,
those folks there, they take care of the
town center for you, depot park, you
know, they do a lot of great things. Um,
you know, and they have very specific,
um, places where they want to see the
sidewalks upgraded, extended, you know,
this kind of thing. Um, and um, so
there's going to be some numbers coming
up. This is a long-term project. This is
not something that's going to happen
next year.
It won't be happening downtown till
after the water system upgrades.
>> Yeah, it's going to be many years. It's
going to be years down the road. And
it's just a question of when you apply
for grants and this kind of thing. But
um I had mentioned it at one of these
meetings earlier is that um I think that
we the CIP committee should and would if
we could recommend to start a capital
reserve fund for sidewalks.
Thoughts?
Well, this is what I'd mentioned to you
that
we need to put money in. We're going to
have to have even if we get grants, they
generally aren't 100%.
>> Max 80.
>> They're going to be m max 80%, some of
them are only 50/50.
>> So, you have to have money for your
matching
>> to establish that.
And I still recommend as far as the
warrant article to establish it would be
for construction
and maintenance
of those sidewalks because just like the
roads they have to be redone
periodically.
>> Mhm.
that way because if you put it in just
for construction,
if they say, "Okay, we've got we've
satisfied everybody with what we've done
for sidewalks and you have $50,000 left
in there.
>> You can't do anything with it.
>> You can't do anything with it because
it's only for construction. So we need
that warrant article to establish needs
to be for the construction and
maintenance
>> right
>> so that in 10 years 15 years or whatever
>> there's money that's been accumulating
to resurface those
>> sidewalks
>> or add more understood yeah and maybe we
may be ultimately recommending more than
one phase is, you know, do this these
now. And then
>> you're going to let him come back.
>> Somebody,
>> you're going to let Jack come back or
have you got him locked up?
>> We've got him in the cell.
I want
>> All right.
started.
>> How do we do that? Can we recommend that
to the planning committee?
>> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> We do.
>> Yeah, we can recommend it.
>> I make a motion.
>> I second that motion.
Um, so then it just becomes I I'm
hopeful that I will get some numbers out
of these guys. Ballpark numbers. Uh,
they told me I'll share October of 14.
company ballpark numbers for what the
entire thing might possibly cost.
>> You got build out,
>> right? And if we looked at it, uh, you
know, and I'll analyze a little bit and
come back to you guys with some kind of
a let's start with 20,000, you know,
something, you know what I mean? Because
there also be some time frames. We won't
get their final um version of the world
until I think it's September 8, but the
next meeting of FOC
haven't made up my mind yet on this
subject. Just brought it to me. It's the
first time I brought it up. I'd love to
hear Jack's perspective on it. Sure.
Give me a second. Jack, could talk about
maybe
recommending a warrant article to create
a new capital reserve account for um
I don't want to say downtown, but Kenan
Village probably sidewalk construction
and maintenance.
Okay. Capital reserve account warrant
article to create one of those. What do
you think about that? I' I'd love to
hear your thoughts.
I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better
to glump it into road and paving sort of
maintenance gravel sort of thing. I
don't know. Um to give
uh highway the ability to either do or
subcontract within a a larger pool of
money. Um maybe some in the operating
budget, some in the capital, and maybe I
mean we don't and we we know I think I
gave you an estimate for average
sidewalk.
>> Yeah, you missed a part that we're going
to get numbers out of the upper valley
probably by October 14.
>> Yeah. Um when I scoped out the sidewalks
in Lebanon, they were so expensive, we
decided we didn't couldn't possibly
>> afford them. I don't remember what the
per foot is. I think I emailed it to
you.
>> 500 towels on this is just
>> sidewalks are expensive. This small
road, you got to build them the same.
>> Yes.
>> I mean, you really don't.
>> Yeah.
>> Um but but I don't think it's a bad I
don't think I don't think it it's a farm
answer because I think drawing people's
attention to that sort of infrastructure
approvement and trying to put some money
in there is not a bad thing. Um
some of that expense obviously going to
depend upon whether you want granite or
not.
And yeah, there's many different kinds
of
>> Oh, yeah. You you got uncurbed, granite
curb, asheold curb.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, here's the other thing. And what
what else can you throw in there? Can
you can you label that out? Is you know,
all your signage, your crosswalk becomes
part of your
sidewalk at that point, the safe
passage. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I got a
quote for 65,000 just for the lights
it'll take to do roof four
right now that I'm kind of sitting on
because the qual down after we get them
painted, but it's that's the type of
improvement that we'd be.
>> Yeah, I think you'll ultimately see all
of that stuff come out when um the upper
valley folks come up with the full and
the friends of Kan Village come up with
a full version of
>> here's what we want to do. Here's the
you know what I mean? all that stuff.
>> Oh yeah.
>> You talked about I mean there's been
lots of conversations about even crazy
things like
>> uh you know how do we get the uh ski
mobilebiles the snowmobiles across the
road without you know what I mean? So
there
>> all that stuff I
>> I actually think it might be a separate
project from an educational from an
infrastructure from a public response. I
like the idea about incorporating safe
passage of pedestrians because we know
that's been an issue.
>> Sure. of of you know crosswalk lighting
stuff.
>> Yeah. Well, you know, we have the
lighting project, right? Which is going
to help
>> and that's got to be somewhat integrated
as well. You know, how all that looks.
>> Yeah. Because you're going to have some
going to have to
>> you're going to have to engineer kind of
the subsurface.
>> They have engineers that are going to be
doing some studies as part of this
thing. I mean, it's free. We don't have
to pay for it. It's just like we're
going to get this whole
>> proposal if you will for don
recommended
>> want to create
that sidewalk construction and
maintenance as it's standalone
because I went through several years in
a row of
we need from here to here and this and
this done. Give me an estimate.
one year came up about 1,800 feet of uh
sidewalk
and I gave them the numbers what it's
going to cost to repave the tear up
repave it. They put the money into my
paving budget and then said this will
cover for you to do these roads. Uh,
I've got in $15,000
to do this stretch. Don't worry about
that. It's going here first. So, without
it being designated, I know
>> it kept getting thrown into other
>> I wouldn't want it to dilute the highway
the roads the road reconstruction. Well,
I agree with Scott because it seems to
me if it goes in with highways,
>> it wasn't diluting the
beautifification
>> designated sidewalk.
>> Yeah. And I can tell you
>> sidewalk has got a great public appeal
right now. A big a big push for it. Oh
yeah. And I think it's a better cell,
easier cell.
>> I agree.
>> Standing alone. I guarantee you that if
that Warren article shows up that the
friends of Canyon Village, you know,
those people that are in there, that
crowd,
>> you're going to get enough votes to pass
it.
>> Well, to be honest, you
>> pretty much guarantee it.
>> And to be honest with you, there's some
sections of this. We may want a
subcontract now.
>> Oh, absolutely.
>> We are so far be
suggesting
>> sidewalks.
Sidewalks as it's a small road.
The equipment you have sitting out here
is not designed
>> for 60inch wall idea.
>> I wasn't suggesting we do any of that.
No, just trying to find a place to put
some money. I I actually would reverse
all that. I like the idea of carving it
out as a separate
>> uh beautifification, infrastructure,
safety project, so forth.
>> Yeah. That will all that's going to tie
into uh the ability to get grants. I
mean if you classify it in that context,
>> right? I mean then one of the main
streets they're talking about is getting
the school street done so that the kids
could walk back and forth, you know, all
of that. So it's a it's a big safety
issue.
>> And one of the
>> Yeah. two different I think of right now
two different stretches of sidewalk I
did because there's grant money involved
>> in that federal money it had to be
granite curbed
>> because of the maintenance factor the
granite stands up to the plow abuse for
even an ashalt curb cuts
>> that's one of the uh things that they
mentioned last night was uh that right
now uh they believe that the sidewalks
that were put in 20 some odd years ago
some guy Wood Mr. Wood or whatever was
running the project
um they um limited some of the curbing
because of the they wanted to not screw
up the plowing or the snow.
>> Mhm.
>> Right.
>> And I can tell you curbing is the worst
thing to have to plow around.
>> But if we do not curb it, you can't keep
the cars out of it.
>> There you go.
>> You lose your swailes.
>> Yeah. So I think that this time around
there's going to be a stronger push to
have real curbs and you know that kind
of thing
>> which affects
it affects the drainage of it.
>> Yeah.
>> Because right now stretches the road
that where we people are trying to walk
is that drainage swale. Now you have to
go to a subsurface
closed drain system to catch that water
at the curb and direct it
>> because it's going to go somewhere.
>> Yeah. So anyway, the the details of the
details, but what I'm trying to get at
is just think about it and it's
something that we probably should start.
>> Sure.
>> At least make a recommendation
>> and and you know the timing might work
with the
>> uh water mane replacement.
>> That's what I was telling them with the
>> Yeah. for the finish the finish side of
the water man because the ground is
already going to be tore up.
>> Well, they're to an extent.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> It still has finish.
>> They're they're actually
>> we're looking at doing the directional
bore because of state excavation
requirements. Now, any soils
that is excavated from the driving
portion of your road within that
maintained area that does not go back
into it must go to a classified site.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah. So, you guys know all the details,
but I'm just saying that these guys are
there's going to be something coming
forward,
>> right? And it would be good if we can,
you know, start to support it. I think
that that makes sense.
>> In a way, that's part of the master
plan. I
>> boy I would love to sit down and have a
you know several conversations around
let's have a master plan boy would I
love to have that conversation
>> yeah a real man
>> I mean you know
>> not not a few guys
>> not not you know I know not not the boys
from you know the planning board they're
fooling around I mean a real want to do
down there love to have that
conversation with you guys
>> they said that a few years ago I recall
>> yeah
so so you know but um in lie of that
we're moving we're trying to move
forward, you know, wherever we can,
obviously, all of a sudden, whatever we
can do. So, let's just
>> So, you got a motion on the floor.
>> Yeah.
>> What was the motion?
>> You have a vote on it or not?
>> Sure. Now, we've had some discussion,
>> right?
>> To create.
>> Would you please tell us what the motion
is? Refresh our memory there. Mr. Motion
is to uh recommend to the planning board
a warrant article to uh provide capital
reserve account for sidewalk
construction and maintenance.
>> Right. And I don't think it's planning
board. I think it's the uh board. Yeah.
>> Discussion on the motion.
>> Select board instead of plan.
>> Yes.
discussion on the motion.
>> I think I heard not just sidewalk
construction maintenance during this
discussion I heard about things like
lighting.
>> What do you talk about? Um the the
crosswalks
>> safety in a more general sense.
>> That's all under the construction of it.
>> Yes.
>> So that was all what you all have
discussed. Do you want motion to remain
just sidewalks?
>> No. construction maintenance or do you
want to change the motion a little bit?
I
>> I'll goose up the language.
>> We'll we'll we'll round it out because
we want to we want to highlight the
elements of of economic development,
sidewalk safety, lighting, crosswalk
security, walking students, whatever. We
don't want to build a book, but I think
I think you want to expand enough. So in
that in that spirit,
>> I would suggest maybe if the make of the
motion wants to could make a motion that
capital Reserve account be created for
sidewalk construction, maintenance and
related projects public
up to me. I didn't make the motion.
>> Yeah,
>> I can draft something up and bring it
back.
>> No, the question is for the motion we're
about to vote on.
>> I understand.
>> How do you want to word the motion? I
would I would um think that what we want
to do right now is to table that motion
until the next meeting when we have uh
you know some additional
>> uh information issue and things from J.
>> Well, may maybe the motion would be to
have me draft a a a draft warrant
article related to infrastructure,
sidewalks, uh pedestrian safety and
lighting.
>> Might be better. Love that.
>> That might be better. But tell me the
motion we need to find out what make the
motion feels about it.
>> He's thinking of it.
>> Yeah, I see that.
>> I don't care. I just
>> I don't know how much detail you want in
this motion.
>> Sure.
>> It doesn't need to be too much.
>> I can get the whole list.
>> That's all right.
>> Right. No, no, no. No.
>> So, I think
>> I'll just come back to you with it. So,
>> so what I would suggest is that we table
this motion
>> Yeah. until the next meeting and then we
can, you know, readress the issue.
>> Right. I'll come back to you with
something. I'll get it out before the
next meeting.
>> Thank you. And by the way, the next
meeting is scheduled September 23rd
at 4:00 here at the uh EOC. So, be here.
You know, be square.
>> What is it? What's the meeting? What's
>> What's on the agenda for it? I don't uh
we don't have a specific item for the
agenda yet. Okay.
>> We will have specific items, but there's
mostly going to be a clean
>> war article through the
>> there's going to be all kinds of little
cleanup things. That's why we, you know,
we've gotten through all of the um
things that we need to get through,
right? So, now we're going to have to
clean up go back and clean up all the
messes that we made.
>> Well, will we have a uh
>> we have two.
Will we have a a spreadsheet to review?
>> Uh, we'll see. That would be the best.
>> I'm sure hoping we can review phase one
or or the the initial spreadsheet. We
were trying to get there. We're hoping.
>> Well, I mean, in your initial um agenda,
you had um government buildings,
bridges, and coex report
>> for what?
>> Yeah.
>> Did I really?
>> Yes, you did.
>> That's why I didn't think we had done
bridges yet. We talked about them in
general way but I don't think we did any
>> we had discussed but we didn't give any
final
>> I talked about three meetings about
>> yeah we talked about them yeah general
discussion I thought
>> yeah because I think we'll and I
actually worked on that today I think
we're going to need another warrant
article
um to
>> no no
>> increase the funding
>> for these brid projects now that
>> on August 12 we did sorry August 12 we
did government buildings bridges
culverts and fire okay and uh the 23rd
meeting is any follow-ups
>> on the material and then there will be
uh to resolve any outstanding items and
prepare the final report there will be
two meetings October 14 and October 28th
>> all right that's okay
>> that's the latest of the that was on
>> is you have notes with the specifics of
bridges then 10
>> yes I
I thought I could just go back and look
at the vide tape.
>> You said the 14th 28th.
>> Yeah, the uh 14 to 28 or the, you know,
let's
>> let's get this all finalized. But, you
know, I think we're doing okay. I think
we're, you know, we'll have uh now that
we've done some of the we've done some
of the preliminary work already on the
with the water and sewer transfer, we
know what we want to say. With respect
to the notes that you've been tracking
of the changes you want to make to the
CIP, are you
>> typing them into something or
>> where's that?
>> Yeah, I have.
>> Yeah, I have the
>> Okay.
>> Yeah, I've got them. And you know,
finish the ones that
>> my little says do government buildings,
do bridges and culprits and do highways.
>> Okay.
>> And then send Bob the roads thing.
>> So,
>> yeah.
>> And he'll come back with what that is,
and that'll be the amendments to roads,
if you will. and uh we should be okay.
So, I think we've got plenty of time. I
think I'm not at all panicked. If we can
get someone to actually update the
spreadsheet, we'll be
>> in good shape.
>> Yeah. And like I said, I already have a
text
for God's sake.
>> I know. He reminds me.
>> He's old enough he should not be having
fun. Yeah. So, thank you.
>> That's exactly what I said.
>> Time to get on with life.
>> All right.
>> Go to college. So, my fun at 18.
>> All right. Any other business?
>> Can we get someone to motion to adjurnn?
>> So, move.
>> Second.
>> All right. Any discussion?
>> Yes.
>> All those in favor?
>> I. Thank you very much. Thank you,
Monica.
>> You're welcome.
Let's clean up this mess and