Middleton Select Board Personnel Policy Workshop - 26 Aug 2026

Speakers are labeled SPEAKER_N. This transcript is machine-generated.

Recording

We'll
go ahead and open the um workshop to
discuss the personal
policy
rise
to the flag
of the stands one nationy
do a roll call
>> and we'll note that we have the chief
here chief police and we also have
will
>> I never say your last name so
what we're going to do tonight is just a
workshop there'll be no formal decisions
made will be recommendations that we do
and um
and go through so we have the current
personel policy we have the draft that
we had looked at revised last fall and I
think we only got
partial partway through it, but I think
also the graph has been updated a little
bit more since the last graph that we
had from the fall. Is that correct?
>> Correct. Yeah.
>> Okay. Thank you.
So
>> yeah with the guidance of what we call
>> right
it's just a little bit more dete
>> right that's not yes so but we had we
hadn't gone through like I see that you
know we have the breakdown of like the
um index now which is good because kind
of you can look at that and see what
falls under
so I'll give everybody a few minutes to
then we'll just start with
This
and I'm assuming most everybody's had a
chance to look through this prior we
sent it out a bit of time ago. So I
guess we'll start with what is now the
current page would be page n
that's where the meat starts prior to
that is the index for the breakdown of
everything that's included each chapter
those pages one through eight. Um,
so everybody's had a chance to look
through like the purpose
Any
questions on page nine?
go through the process.
I mean, I can read anything anybody
wants me to or
need to, but unless we need to talk
about clarification.
Thank you.
questions
definitions
>> questionage 10.
>> Okay. Uh just real quick
policies are not applying to
be elected officials and qualified
volunteers in the town
as what would be essentially considered
a modified volunteer
>> like
>> Yeah. I mean I just more like if ones
that aren't elected however are like
committee members for example yeah
committee or
noted but
>> that's right
>> yeah I was going to say so like my focus
as the police chief is to leave this
place better than when we got here um
and we can all discuss this right out
and mutually all agree that we know what
that means, but these policies may
continue into long after my tenure and
all your tenders. U so I just kind of as
I was reading some of this stuff, I
thought maybe we need to clarify a
little bit so that future boards or
department heads or employees that come
in
a little bit.
>> So we could say
>> leaves it less open for interpretation,
>> right? You can say bonafide bonafide
volunteers and you could say such as
>> board conservation committee
>> ZBA in any subcommittees
um
>> as such.
>> Yeah.
>> Or whatever.
>> I like the fact that we kind of remove
them from the policy if you will. Um,
but the other thing is too is I think
that uh, and this is more the taxpayer
me speaking. I think if they do sit on a
board though, there's some stuff in here
that they should probably be held up
held to a standard of because they are
still representing the town.
>> U, you know, such as our multimedia
policy, things like that.
>> U, I think whether you're on the ZBA or
on the the sle or the the rack, if you
will, um, you know, like the the
social media or multimedia policy. I
think I think everybody should be held
to that standard because they're still
representing the town.
>> I I tend to agree with you only except
for what's usually and I don't know we
have this what's called most boards have
a what's called conduct policy.
I mean maybe we put some language in
there that says each board must abide by
all by their ethics policy that the u
maybe the chair of each board is
required to write ethics policy for the
board and submit it to you guys
>> to be included that's a great idea to
think that
like I said it was just one of those
things
>> I I agree because it makes it clear that
>> because we called up elected town
officials we didn't call like appointed.
So you could say volunteer
volunteers or appointed appointed town
officials along with appointed because
they could then they could be depends
right appointed could be an employee
>> versus
so appointed to a committee or board I
guess but I'm sure I'm sure
>> yeah you could add
probably the more we can clarify that's
probably good.
>> I'm just thinking like this might be in
effect the next 25 years
because my guess is that most of this
was this probably been around for a vast
majority of that 12. So
>> all right so if we're good with that
we'll move on to what is now 11. So I
didn't see
So you so you categorize these by
organizational and authority terms.
I guess I don't I don't know how you
change the organization because before
it was advertised to now it's
>> we'll help you.
>> That's fine. I just was wondering
because I'm just I see we have
organizational authority and as long as
all of these are in here
>> just not I don't have any issue with
that. I do know that we did have
and we said that voice because this was
a change we talked about being the
elected
official of the time to interactive.
Okay, that's good.
>> I do have
page 11.
>> Yel
file. Yeah.
>> Uh
I did put a call into the the PSD sneak
pre
and as you guys are aware they came into
our office last week. Um
one of the things that came up in that
discussion from them was they were my
personal file and then I went upstairs
and done for them. Um,
I kind of had the conversation with them
where it it doesn't matter, but
realistically,
um, maybe we put a caveat in there as
far as the police department goes
because there is some documentation in a
police officer's personnel file that is
has to be maintained by by us
downstairs. Um it's not open for a
public view or or
private to every person or anybody that
they want to
look at. Uh
so if you look at what's called RSA 2756
>> was called actually addresses that.
>> Oh, it does. Okay. I didn't read the
statute. So
>> yeah, that's the reason why I put in
there was called, you know, so that's
prohibited by RSA.
>> Like I had no problem with mine being
upstairs and that's why I told the
police academy mine could be upstairs. I
was and I had no problem with the
officers being up there either. Um so
what we discussed and what I discussed
with them potentially so we could still
stay compliance with their standards was
maybe they just have two personnel
files. So, so basically just to kind of
give you an idea what to talk about is
like their psychological exams,
those aren't something that are that's a
that's a HIPPA issue. That's a a whole
plethora of other issues. Uh along with
their their medical records and what
have you. Uh but as far as their
employer records and everything that can
all be upstairs
issues and he is looking into it for me.
I thought he'd get back to me by now.
And this had nothing to do with this
meeting. These were questions that just
came up during the audit process last
week. Um,
so that just I'm just wanted to throw
that out there with everyone that as I
read this I just wanted to make sure
that we all understood that potentially
if we if we want to keep everything up
upstairs in the office that's not a
problem but on my end of things they may
have two tiles right
in the RF. Perfect.
Okay. Um
I know we had it looks like we had
updates for employee salary that's been
updated. We have
we had an update for temporary that got
updated. Um,
we had
nothing for me that
over time.
No, that should be every every other
Thursday and Wednesday.
>> Yes.
On payday age 12.
So it should be every other Wednesday,
Thursday or Wednesday
because we were initial work initially a
weekly and then it says period
>> and then Sunday through Saturday not
Monday through Saturday.
>> So pay period should be Sunday through
Saturday.
Well, that's all
>> Sunday.
Do we So, in looking at other towns and
other organizations, I have a couple
references here for you if you want. Um,
they outline what is considered a work
day because sometimes that can cause
>> and I'm not sure if that's
>> confusion,
>> right? So, I guess maybe I don't know if
that's further in or we can Yeah. So
>> talk about that
>> in our old policy. We do talk about it
when we get to
>> um compensation.
>> So do we should we call it out as a
>> we should put it if you guys are
interested or thoughts of putting it.
>> Well, here's my I guess what's called
why I think we talked about oh I put in
later on like definitions because what
constitutes the work day for the highway
department,
>> right?
>> And what constitutes her work days for
Kim,
>> right,
>> is completely different,
>> right? And that's and that's where I was
I was going with this was, you know,
essentially like I know in the old one
it says that a work day for the police
department is 10 hours as opposed to,
you know, a work day for somebody else
is potentially 8 hours.
>> I guess so the effect of work day would
be an assigned period of time by
>> Yeah. I just some of the some of the
other towns they just they just outlined
going the police police department work
day is is
>> identified as 10 hours you know. So
yeah, so we could potentially put in a
you know work day because we have work
week
>> and we can we need to put in um
>> my only limitation about breaking it
down by each department is for example
what's called highway department three
years ago was
>> Monday through Friday now it's Monday to
Thursday
>> which means update every time
>> the ad so whereas let's tell you right
now
kind of say what if the changes to say
whatever.
>> Yeah. No, it absolutely can. So
saying something to the effect of you as
signed by department head,
>> right? Well, that's going to go to the
so
definition, but as far as the work day
or work schedule, work week, work month,
work year, whatever the case may be, um
that's a unrelated law that's a
management right. So the officers may
work 10our shifts right now.
>> Uh and don't laugh at me for saying
this, but if we had more officers and we
went short two officers and I needed to
provide that coverage, it's my right to
actually say, "Hey, let's go back to
eight hour shifts to work in five so on
and so forth." Um, and it has to write
that's advantage of it. Um, but the only
reason I bring up the definition aspect
of it because it comes into play. Um,
such as like a home.
>> So, if they're working 8 hours because
I've assigned them to because we're
short staffed. Um
if we identify birthday
shift well now
>> so it may be in here further. Um but it
was just something I just wanted to
touch on.
>> No I think it's a very
>> Yeah. Yeah. just I wanted to touch on
because like I said I'm not I'm as I go
through all this I'm thinking like we're
all
if you mean the nicest way possible but
at the end of the day we're all going to
rehire hopefully.
>> Yeah hopeful.
>> All right. So given that recommendation
>> that's going to be under the day
>> it would be a week a work day I think in
>> so we're going to add definition work
day definition
>> and then just you know a caveat in there
that says you know u this this schedule
can be altered um by management right
>> to accommodate needs of the town
I'm going to pinpoint you say we're not
going to say what hours just how
you know by management
can be fluid and change of course since
the beginning of this sense that this
can't be perceived as a contract or
anything like that it's not a contract
>> okay so that's good so that brings us
into
chapter four the equal equal employment
opportunity and policy against
discrimination and harassment
Can Can I go back real quick?
>> Oh, you get it. Sorry.
>> No, no. I just I kind of highlight marks
here and there. Um, so I see promotions
to motions and what have you.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> And we reference labor grades. Now, I
know that further in in this there's
language about setting up a pay scale
and presenting it to you guys within a
period of time, so on and so forth. And
and I don't want to be presumptive here,
but I'm assuming that's what you're
referencing there when you referenced
labor grade.
>> That's what I figured. I just wanted to
make sure.
>> So, we're going to define this labor
line.
Yes, we'll be talking about that.
>> Because so we're starting with chapter 4
and I know that there was
opportunity
as we get through that. I do have some
questions on page 60.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. some some companies I'm not sure
about this but they cover who that I
don't read you know how even a volunteer
or contractor
of the firm or whatever um that the
language specifies that can also be um
considered
harassment things like that is that
>> I think that might be a little bit more
detailed on the posters that are posted.
>> Yeah, that's true.
>> You're right. It is. That's true. I did
see that.
>> Yeah. Good.
>> And we originally had those in the big
room before we did the painting. Um,
basically the thing
I have those posters.
Um,
you guys have them downstairs too,
right?
>> Yeah. We when I started, we bought the
most up to date. We got we as so we have
>> So I also think
because highway and um fire don't come
over into the kitchen area. You need to
get
>> Yeah, they should be they should be
posted in each one of the
>> I can um you may have but if not I can
tell you what Amazon
>> I guess
>> there was only one there was one section
that's federally required that wasn't
even noticed. So we printed that out
separately.
>> So do we So I I didn't know that we had
So it's like on page 15 and it just says
defining it when we defined it as
unwelcomed or was we had unwelcome and
decided it should be unwelcome but I see
it from that to unwelcome. I don't know
which one should be if it should be
defined as unwelcome. I think
>> we just go ahead and read it. So now in
our old one we do um we do refer to and
I don't not sure if we have to is um oh
yeah appendix C. So if everybody wants
to see do you have the appendix attached
to this? No, I don't think that will be.
>> No, but so
you want to
>> see
I mean I mean since it's being
referenced it might be worth
>> it's just procedures.
I think
was too
So this
>> so that um independency clarifies a lot
of the questions that I actually had on
that
do we want to outline
because it doesn't really say who will
go to investigate
>> correct
>> says we will promptly investigated. It
will smoothly, but nowhere in there does
it reference who will investigate
>> and so they should report it
>> in the appendix. It clarifies who it
should be reported to slapman or
department head or
>> supervisor.
I wasn't sure who proper authorities
means.
I think that would well I guess it would
be like so if it was your boss you're
not report
>> um so
>> because the board would would need to
make sure that
>> that the town informed our liability
as soon so it was reported out it didn't
mean reporting outside the town first
because you know we really have to
report those very
>> thing that's this is where the liaison
will come into effect. So if I had a
problem with um Dan J
or vice versa if I had a problem with
somebody else and Tim was that person
>> and then
I don't
>> so right but so where we need to
>> disclosure complaints will be limited
Those will need to know in order to
investigate this. We'll conduct all
investigations in discrete manner. But
it doesn't say
I don't know that I don't know that you
define who investigates.
>> No, I don't think it does.
>> And I don't necessarily think it needs
to be.
>> No. then you'd have to give every
example,
>> right? Because I was like if it was
because typically I would, you know,
well depending on the nature of it or
whatever, you know, so you might say,
"Okay, we're going to have the PE
investigator or we're going to have
some." So So yeah, so I think as long as
I think I think this is kind of well, I
mean, I don't know. We'll defer to
everybody else, but I think this is okay
as such. And again, it's not like we
can't change it.
as more people think about it more and
say, "Well, this is
>> I I do have a copy of another town's
>> their
>> procedures."
>> Yeah. And as I read theirs, I don't see
anything that specifically identifies
school and best need it. But basically
what there says is that it would be
reported to the direct supervisor or
department head, you know, like so I'll
just use police department as an
example. Let's say uh it gets reported
to the sergeant. The sergeant would then
immediately report it to me. Um and then
at that point from reading theirs, it
looks like the situation could
potentially be addressed at that level.
But if the complaint party did not feel
uh they were adequately it was
adequately dealt with then it leaves
them the ability to basically appeal
that to you guys. So that's the other
thing that we just have to be careful of
because we don't have a town
administrator or anyone is that
we want to try and keep the board out of
a lot of it as best we can because
otherwise if you guys investigate it, it
leaves us no alternative for them to
appeal if they're not happy with the
decision. So then it goes outside the
four walls and it goes to to the state.
Um whereas if it's handled, you know, at
a department head level, then at that
point, if they're not content with that
and they feel that the department head
didn't handle the situation correctly or
whatever, it gives you that next level
of tier before it winds up outside of
>> of our municipality.
>> And I agree. I think that would be it
should be if somebody was to come to me
and say, "Hey, represent." I said,
"Well, have you talked to your
department yet?"
>> Yeah. I mean otherwise or forgiving say
well it is their department head then
they have to come to you know I mean so
it's
>> but these are this this particular one
is one that that can draw um
>> criticism scrutiny and and can
ultimately end in the in the town being
you know in some form or fashion of
litigation. Um, so the one thing I will
say in reading it is that we're kind of
broad to a degree on how it reports
because it says, you know, a supervisor,
a department head, a board of selection
where I think we need to be more direct
in the language of it where it says you
report it to your immediate supervisor.
Um, so on and so forth. Um, and then
that way there if an employee, God
forbid, ever ends up in a situation like
this in the town, they can't say, well,
you know, I reported it to so and so
>> versus and so are you. So you're saying
in number one where it says reported
immediately to your supervisor
>> department.
>> Well, but that's what I think he's
saying. It's like basically the normal
if it wasn't you know I mean your normal
chain of command would be to report it
to your supervisor department because
lots of times that's one of the same
and you know however
language in there however
>> in the absence of
>> well what do you mean the absence of
because if it was you you mean
>> oh if oh no no no there's so just to get
back to it and there's a there's a
paragraph there's language in there that
actually outlines if it is the
department head that is potentially the
perpetrator It outlines how you would
would report that.
>> Yeah. In there. And I can scan this and
email it to you guys if you want to just
take a look at it.
>> But I just think that's one of those
ones that we definitely got to be very
crystal clear on the procedural aspect
of it so that we don't wind up in a
situation just based on not having it uh
tight enough. I guess the best way.
So,
So that's accommodations for individuals
with disabilities.
>> I I do have one recommendation here just
as I look at it right now.
>> Oh, okay. What?
>> Um
>> like a
>> like on a accommodation. So it says how
to request accommodations.
It says uh
>> notify the office of the board of
selectmen.
>> Would that be considered Kim?
>> Yeah. No, what's called the designated
chairman of divorce says
>> well it says
>> office
>> yeah it says I have here in front of us
we have it says if you require
accommodation please notify the office
of the board of selector
>> and I'm just curious if that if
>> by your statement there it qualifies as
Kim just because again we're kind of
like we're unlike a lot of
municipalities where we don't have a t
administrator
>> or you know there's the potential that
days could go by without seeing one of
you.
>> Now we change it to the second
secretary.
>> Yeah. I was just, you know, if we could
just add that to office
>> to include the second secretary
>> because if somebody's an NBA
Yeah. I just always when I look at stuff
like that, I always want to give an
alternative just because, you know,
>> depending on it, sometimes it's very
rare, but we can sometimes go days
without seeing you guys.
Okay. Uh, so we're So that we're good on
>> Yeah, that was the only thing I had. I
just, like I said, I just didn't want
somebody to be able to come back at us.
>> Actually, I do have a question. Um,
>> mandatory harassment training. Do we
have that every three years?
>> Where is Wait a minute.
>> Bottom of page 16.
>> Page Oh, so now we're back to page 16.
>> Sorry, missed it.
>> That's okay.
I try to every three years training.
>> Um, good question. So, that's something
that we need to
>> So, Primix does do a training.
>> Yeah. So, I mean, that's probably
something we can circle back and, you
know, get up,
>> right? And I think that was something
that was in the old one that was called
liquid from the new one. So,
>> yeah. No, that's fine. I I think it's
great. I mean, it's just one of those
things that we need to get in a better
habit of. And it is an online
>> train for so
>> that's very minimal. I mean most
employers it's every year at least a lot
>> with the state it was every year we had
to do it. Yeah.
Thanks.
>> So I think we're moving on to page 19
which is important.
So we had so we had him before we were
looking to change unless a statute or a
written contract and I think we're going
to add or memorandum and I don't know
why we chose that um specifies
otherwise.
All time employees are considered.
>> So are we good with adding that back in
there? It wasn't in the original, but
when we had met last fall, we put that
in there.
>> Which one's that? I'm sorry.
>> On page.
>> Yeah. So it says we're adding. It says
unless a statute or a written contract
or memorandum
specify otherwise and I think then the
rest of that's fine.
Then this refers to appendix B. So if we
want to look at appendix B
this is uh
the hiring policy
and and I think it definitely needs to
be a fit because it has uh three select
who are and we are five board now and I
believe that this is uh probably
something that
I think this one we I have to take a
little bit more in depth look at. So I I
think I kind of say let's table this one
because it looks like it's going to say
something about what has the iron hire
set the following fire chief I'm
thinking
>> we we do hire fire chief we don't
>> we don't hire the firefighters under but
>> I think that's what it's trying
>> right yeah so let's what's um
>> was the fire chief maybe at one point if
we did
>> it could have been
say that's not abnormal in it So I would
say let's uh take this one do some
further work on it because unless
because I think it's too much we're
supposed to look at right now. So
>> okay
>> so I I do have a quick question for
probationary period
>> on page 19. Okay. Definitely process on
that page. That's good.
>> Is is I guess for promotional processes,
I'm kind of fine with the 90 days.
>> Um, but for employment, general
employment, most places are 12 months. I
didn't know if that was something you
guys would be interested in.
>> Most places you're on probation for for
12 months. or at least the
municipalities and places in the state
>> work
always been 90 days.
>> Yeah, it's it's different. Um but I know
like Farmington was was 12 months. The
states you're considered probationary
for 12 months.
>> Like I said, I'm fine with the 90 days.
I'm just throwing it. Again, I'm just
that guy that's just
>> know the logic behind that.
Um, so I I can't speak to other
positions, but from the law enforcement
aspect, typically it takes you more than
90 days to look at somebody and figure
out whether they're going to get it or
not get it.
>> Um, because just their just their FTO
period is traditionally 12 to 14 weeks
and then you have um you know, if you
send them to the police academy that's
16 weeks. Um, so if from my purview, by
the time we get them through the
academy, get them through field
training, and now we can start to see if
they've absorbed, understand, and are
able to um actually complete the job as
we've trained them to do, we're at 90,
we're well, we'd be well past the 90
days. Now, you're still an employee at
will by definition in here, but once
you're not considered a probationary
period, and I may be wrong in this, but
I believe you are afforded more labor
rights
>> than you are than you are if you're
still considered probationary,
and I could be wrong in that, but I
believe.
>> So, again, I'm I'm fine with the 90. I
was just throwing it out there.
>> That makesense.
for for us again I don't I can't speak
to any other department but for for me
and I and I don't know if I'm completely
wrong in the you know employment rights
that are afforded for a a non-pbationary
to probationary if I'm wrong in that
then then so be it doesn't make a
difference but if I am the 90 days um
there there's no way that if I was
hiring a brand new officer that I knew
nothing about there's no way I could
articulate within 90 days whether or not
especially with the training periods um
as to whether or not they could add
equipping to the job.
>> I can imagine that
>> potentially I would think yeah
>> they do a lot of training
>> because a a well a lot of the things too
is a lot of these training periods have
extended as well. You know the police
academy used to be 10 weeks and now
we're I think last time I checked we're
at like 16 weeks. Um you know I know
like the fire academy it used to be much
shorter than it is now. So those those
those certification periods have
extended statutoily as far as the
requirements for the certifications. Um
but but again it if I'm not correct
>> because you read it was it said at least
90 days.
>> Which means what's it can be longer
depending on the part.
>> Maybe that in there. Huh.
>> Some should clarify that. But um
>> I mean I at that point we could
absolutely I think if we cleaned it a
little bit then we could absolutely
leave it open to the point where the the
department head could extend
>> there isn't well the next page there
isn't says an extension
>> the probationary period in up to
additional 90 days for evaluation
>> only one extension may be granted for
any probationary period employee there's
no implied contract for continu
>> that's good.
>> So maybe we're good with what we have
here because I guess
>> to it's like we are saying that it's at
least it's the next page
>> page 20.
>> Page 20 extension.
>> Oh. All right. I'm sorry.
>> Y
>> I was following Dex into the mid period
evaluation. So I I I I think are we so
are we good with saying at least 90 days
unless the board of select modifies or
>> Yeah. Because if we needed to I would
just write a letter to you guys asking
can we extend this?
>> So then and we have the extension on the
back the next page that covers
>> take that back. Sorry for wasting your
time.
>> No too. I get I have to look fully
enough that it's good to look ahead.
Just saying.
Um
okay.
So I think that
>> on page are we on performance
valuations?
>> So on page 20 it references the written
performance evaluations at least once a
year.
>> I'm a huge preponderant of evaluations.
Um my my question I guess is is are we
going to have an appendix with the
evaluation form itself?
>> I think that's good. I know so that we
have
>> because then we're all using this
everybody's using the consistent form.
>> Absolutely.
>> The consistent criteria,
>> right? So like I did evaluations on my
employees this past year. Um, but I just
used an evaluation form that I had. Um,
but I think it would be beneficial if
we're going to outline it in the policy
to so that way there they know what the
what what the standard is they need to
be.
>> No, but I think it's good we have an
evaluation form. It's uniform across all
departments. U let's call if you want I
have I can send it over there. But
>> yeah, I mean for everybody to review it.
Yeah. So that would be like whatever
whatever but yeah so if we want to
reference that in here somewhere for the
appendix Tim as well say
>> and then um as far as the evaluations go
is there any definition or any
clarification there on who completes
them? I mean, I would assume as a
department head it would be completed by
you guys, but I'm presumptive here in
that, you know, as far as the employee
goes, it would be completed by the
department head.
>> It doesn't say that, but I mean, maybe
we should put cl some put clarification
>> Yes. I suspect if you you work in a
department where there's a department
head, then that person would be the one
that does.
>> Well, yeah, it makes sense because
what's called our own employees are
department heads. Our employees are only
department heads
>> or like or like
>> so
>> you kind Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So I agree that maybe we had
some some language and said who would be
performing the
>> um
>> soman let's call evaluate department
heads and department heads evaluate
their employees.
And I do have different evaluations that
I'm I know
Tim said that he had some as well. I'll
be more than happy to send you guys as
well. Um because they're a little bit
different. Like I have I have
evaluations that also critique you on
your fiscal responsibility, financials,
etc., etc. Whereas like an employee,
you're not going to complete any of
that.
Well, so what's called the one that I'm
thinking of is one was called we've been
using what's called and like actually
I've seen three channels I've worked so
far which kind of you can actually break
apart into different sections. Yeah. To
take away certain aspect of
>> Yeah. So that's like for example with um
>> physical fitness might not really be
outside kind of
>> deal with one employee whereas for
another employee
>> it might be
>> so yeah so maybe once we get those we
can do some little clarification I'm
saying but also I want do we should we
put in here when they need to be done
completed I think that would be a good
idea
>> recommendation like mid year I something
like that.
>> I don't know.
>> I typically like to do them
I try to do them twice a year, but me
personally, I try to do them either a at
the end of the year if I'm only doing
one,
>> so that that way there they know what my
expectations are for the next year.
>> Uh because that's that at the end of the
day, that's the purpose of the
evaluation is to to point out areas that
you could do better or that you would
expect somebody to do better. So case
where you have an employee and you hired
say
>> November.
>> Do you still evaluate them in January or
>> I would still evaluate them but you just
wouldn't have much in there. You know
you'd have a lot of not applicable
probably.
>> I think what's my recommendation would
be to do it on the anniversary.
>> Yeah. Or anniversary dates. You could do
that person but that's just my ownus.
You have to have a track and yeah
>> I mean so can you do
>> well
>> wait a minute so I just want to say so
the evaluation is not tied to anything
monetary that's from what we're talking
about here because that's not what we've
done. If we are then that's a different
then I think then you'd have to say you
have to have a date like I can tell you
like where I work
>> my review was done in January February.
>> Yeah. because it's attached to monetary
but if we're not doing attaching it to
monetary then I think anniversary is
fine because that's the you know I mean
>> well I mean what's I think based on the
conversation we had back in March the
town decides to be great anyway
>> the town size
>> the goal anyway so therefore we're just
doing it so that they're aware of where
it stands right
>> so I mean I so but you can't your point
to saying doing it on the anniversary is
It it's just I mean look at all the um
>> somebody has to track it.
>> Well, I mean that's up to the department
head because like I said I mean our
employees that were in the valley are
the chief the chief Robin Kim
>> town.
No. So could we
>> town clerk is what's called
>> So could we say how about this? Because
I'm I'm just thinking of like five. He's
got 20 people there who could have 20.
So could they could we say they have a
person an employee has to be evaluated
at least once a year and it's up to the
department of selecting as to when you
know I think that's about
>> when I if I could figure it I'd be like
okay I'm doing all my evaluation
>> say you put like no later than November
31st
>> right they have to have at least one
evaluation from the year and it's all to
your decision as to when you do it
>> so based on discretion of the EOS or
it's permanent.
>> Yeah, I think so. But it has to be at
least once a year.
>> Because that's how I would look at I
would be like, okay, if we're talking
about to me, I'm like, if I had to do
evaluations, I would kind of say, let's
just do them all around the same time.
>> You're in that mode.
>> Yes. Exactly.
>> But that's just another discussion for
us to have for like departments and not
the people we're going to do.
>> Right. Because another thing too, um, if
you're going to base any type of
monetary off from their evaluations,
>> why not? That's I mean,
>> yeah, we're not that's determined by the
determined by the
>> Right. But what I'm asking is um like
say say I didn't farewell on my
valuation,
you can't hold that column back from me.
No, that's what we're saying.
>> That's what I'm trying to get all around
to make sure it's there that this isn't
>> right. So goal is determined by the town
people at the time. Right.
>> Now, what's called evaluation can be
used to say if you have four bad or
three bad evaluations where you're, you
know, continually showing us that you're
not doing your job,
>> then it's also to say, you know what,
one
maybe two, but
>> then they get
right. So,
>> or even if it's like two in a row, okay,
maybe it's time to put him on the work
plan,
>> right? I'm only using this example.
>> But I mean it also gives you
justification for promotion and
justification for demotion for other
right
>> other means to move forward and move
back.
>> I guess that's why I was not
a fan of doing it that way is because
again it's you say you know as long as
the people as long as the town people
support giving 3% 2% whatever it is
>> that's fine. But our job is to also hold
our employees accountable.
>> Our employees are the department. So,
>> right. No, I was just saying because
there's steps to those that are
dependent on how you fare on an
evaluation.
>> You know, you get a verbal, you get a
document, a verbal is given and that
employee has to sign off on that memo
type thing. And then you know sometimes
dependent on what the issue is sometimes
you can give them a second verbal and
then the third one it's going to be have
in writing each one of these steps has
to be signed by the employee as well as
the um
>> you're talking like disciplinary
>> well I guess while I'm thinking more I
would say so we have say one
requirements is for our police chief to
come in and give US departmental reports
on a monthly basis or even a quarterly
basis and they refuse to do that for a
year on their valuation. That's
communication is something we're going
to pay Mark for. Now if that continues
on then
that's something which we're have to
start looking at. Okay. Well, it's been
that repeated process and even if the
board changes, people can the board
members or the new board members can
still see that that's an issue. At the
same token, say what's called Yeah. So,
we have police chief in Wisk. One of the
things we say is, yeah, we want you to
be involved in the community
and we see them at home day constantly.
We see them organizing bike rodeos. We
see them doing any number of things. we
can say you know what this is an area
where you exceed all our expectations
and then what's that same thing if they
end up having like you know some new
board comes in and says I'm not sure you
know how I feel about this chief and
they can see oh okay well this person
has routinely got high marks because of
X Y and Z
>> just has to make sure that coincides
with the job description
>> right and yeah I'm not I'm not I'm just
trying to get
>> sorry you were my ex for both but I
think
I'm good
maybe you you show up at the meetings
and you have a song but yeah
so I think we are moving on to I don't
know if anybody had anything on page 21
which is employment of immediate family
I know we had done some work on that
clean that up
to seven compensation.
So I think all I was working for during
the calendar weeks because we
should be weeks
Just
how do we handle
late submission? Because in my
experience supervising if in the in my
case the employees a lot of times were
out and about everywhere and they were
you know they either had to turn in in
person. This is before really electronic
things we were doing or they had to fax
me by certain time and so some of them
clearly didn't care about being paid but
the law required them to be paid on
time. So HR would tell me, Jonathan, you
know, you know, you need to do your very
level best to estimate what they learned
and if there's anything that is a
discrepancy, they they need to address
it with us after that. Even though it's
a responsibility to get it in, it's our
clear responsibility to pay the time. So
what's your perspective on that? Um,
>> well, basically,
um, here I've been told they
you have to have payroll submitted to me
by 9:00 every Monday morning. Um yes
this time that you have to wait for you
to come back in the stature but and
otherwise um you know they could not pay
but then you got to look back at you
have to be very
>> like a fire department it' be almost
impossible for someone other than like I
it seems fairly easy there because they
obviously you know I mean I'm saying if
the individual is marking up what
they're doing and the chief is doing but
say trying to think of the situ
situation if you have like
that issue. Can I
>> So,
>> can I give you an example of something
for my shot? So,
>> where I work was I'm in charge of video.
>> Who come in literally what's called
after work days and do every time they
don't
>> They're what's called you know it works
out clients in on time but
>> you knew what they were doing, right?
>> I had an idea which meant Yeah. Send me
a dance. Okay. So I know the need to
cover 3 hours, takes an hour to break
down and sell. So I'm paying them for 5
hours and every time I email you email
them, listen, pay for 5 hours. If you
>> an issue with this,
>> let me know. Otherwise,
>> that's it. Yeah,
>> I think the same thing with Jared or
Scott can say or Dan to say, "Okay, well
Scott, you know you worked X number of
hours, but you didn't submit anything to
me, so I'm going to pull you into this
and then if we have to correct later."
>> Yeah. That's kind of like what I do,
too. um like on if I if I have a week
off vacation and it falls on the week of
the payroll, I get in touch with all the
platinum heads and say, "Look, I I'm on
vacation that week. Can I have the
payroll on Wednesday so that I can get
it processed um Wednesday and Thursday
and get all the signatures and stuff if
there's anything additional added on to
the following?"
>> Yeah. The only time we run into any type
of issues.
>> Oh, that's a good point.
>> But been a problem. That's good.
>> Yeah, I think that's Yeah, I think
that's
>> embedded now into them to make sure that
they have it.
Well, and if there's any if there's any
questions or anything like that, I
contact
right off and say, "Hey,
>> can you clarify this a little?"
>> Yep.
>> So, I see we have I just want to just
double check on this. We have under the
pay periods we have submission
deadlines. partners must submit weekly
payroll accounts
>> sheets for lock
>> right accounts and time sheets to the
board so I can talk to them later I get
that I guess what was I oh
reviewing their pages I was just I was I
guess maybe
I was just questioning because we do
bi-weekly but they must submit a weekly
payroll plan so they do have to meet
they need to submit weekly even though
we get paid by they have to submit for
paperwork. So that's that's fine.
>> Which they all do anyways,
>> right? Yeah,
>> that's fine. I just I just had to talk
that through myself.
>> Under the wage where it says longevity
increases, there needs to be a space
between.
So this is one. All right. So this one
this is one that's kind of been
stand out there because and I've seen it
I've it's been in the book. It's always
been in the book. It says then 30 days
policy passage all the comprehens
that plan for salary increases based on
you know training and plan.
>> I've yet I've never seen one in the
whole in the whole time I've been over
there even in like old archives I've
never seen that plan. So either we need
to
>> have this or remove you know come up
with some better language.
>> I say happy that just
>> because we don't necessarily have a wage
that I don't know
>> to have one.
>> I would absolutely love to see how
>> I agree.
>> So that's fine. So then we just need to
reach out to
the department heads and say
>> honestly I think the county would look I
think county looked to one so that way
they know
>> you know and I don't disagree but it's
just it's one of those things where it's
always been in there but I've never seen
any back to it even from years but I
won't
>> so I think we need to reach out to our
department head and say you guys need to
put together a step plan
>> you know so when we say that oh sorry
it's my
>> thanks for joining
Hey, welcome.
>> Sure. Okay. So, we're we're on chapter
seven, so you know, hold on now. Which
is compensation? So, we're talking about
wage step. So, would we talk about wage
plans just for the highway, police, and
fire? Are we talking wage plans for all
positions?
>> I think at least the three.
>> Okay. Well, I would be I would be
opposed to all departments or all
employees have that opposition.
>> So, one thing that I worked on years ago
with the old police department actually
Joe Bar
was potentially exploring something like
this because as far as a recruitment and
retention aspect of things, it can be
very beneficial.
my proposal to them was is I had a 20st
step
plan or 20 grades and then it had 10
steps which calculated over the course
of 20 years.
So and what you would do is take like um
patrolman they would fall under a pay
grade
10. Well, that paygrade 10 then had
um essentially 10 steps and the first
five years were annual and the second
five years were bannual.
Um and then the
step nine to step 10 was three years and
this was based on your evaluations on
your performance on your longevity with
the town etc. Um,
I've seen it in other municipalities,
um, where,
you know, the towns voted down any sort
of a cola or anything of the sort. Um,
and then that went on for two, three,
sometimes four years. And then there was
a mass exodist because employees were
like
cost of everything going up the gallon
of milk and everything else but and and
healthc care for that matter. There were
some municipalities where people uh
worked at a municipality for 10 years
and then 10 years later they were
actually making less than the day they
started there because the cost of
healthcare increased but there was
nothing that increased on their side of
it. Um so again I I know that it's a
double-edged sword. um fiscally
but I definitely am a strong
preponderant at least having further
discussion and exploratory of it. So I
mean let's talk I've actually seen the
also example where I've seen towns
get more employees because the employees
understand that this is where you know
this is how everything is
>> no yeah I agree
>> and then town size as well
>> yeah 3% 4% 2% whatever that's on top of
our thing which again I think is beneial
because then people So, and then
traditionally, so then traditionally
what you do though is like let's say so
you have your pay scale.
>> And now the town votes next year uh the
national average is 2% cola. So the town
votes we're going to give it 2% cola.
What you do is you just take that whole
pay scale and everything increases on
that scale by 2%.
>> Correct. Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, so it's not like, hey, you're going
to go here, here, and get 2%. You're
going to get your step, which is
encompassed into that 2% is already
encompassed into it potentially,
>> depending upon the town vote. Now, if
the town votes for zero, so let me back
up.
>> Let's say you're making $10 an hour and
your next step is 12.
>> Okay. The town votes no cola. Will you
still get your step if if you've earned
it? It's m Is that right? So now this is
>> it'sly based
>> but that would be under the guidance of
>> right. No, but I'm just saying so you
can show you all what lane we're looking
at in how we're going to navigate.
>> You can you can do both or either or but
having some form of a projection of the
future for an employee is very
beneficial when it comes to recruitment.
>> Right. Um, now you could potentially say
our pay scale is our pay scale and we
will re-evaluate it every 10 years,
every five years or whatever. And if the
town votes to give a cola, then the
employees that work here at the time
that that's given get the cola in their
steps and maybe your your materious or
I'm not pronouncing the word correctly,
but maybe your steps aren't as as big.
Um, but it still gives somebody that
projection of it. But on that same
token, if you do something like that
where maybe there's a percent and a half
in each step or you know or and maybe
your last step is 5%, you know.
>> Yes. So I I'm not opposed to that saying
like since say the town like so say your
step is say it's 2%. Make it easy,
right? So your steps are 2% and the town
has chose to do a 2%. So you're getting
that no matter what, right? Right. But
say the town says no, then you're gonna
get the 2% because it's in your step.
>> You're still eligible for your step.
Yeah.
>> So I think just because I'm always
thinking on the number side. So we would
need to make sure we set up some type of
financial
>> that's
going to all the employees.
>> So no, but I'm just saying so and that
just needs to be considered and I don't
have a problem doing that. It's just a
matter of I would need to make sure how
we set that up in on the financial side
because
>> right I I get what you're saying about
the tax cap. I really do. However, I
think based on the actual number of
employees we have, I don't think it's
going to be as large of impact as we
think it might be.
>> Possibly not. But without those numbers,
>> which is like I said, which is why we
>> I think it would be worthwhile to
have what's called our department heads
proposed or what's called create the
guide and then we can have that
conversation in more depth.
>> So a lot of people on the fire
department.
>> Yeah. No, no, no. But I mean, so that
would be but that's up to Jared to come
up with the because some of it's going
to be like if they do the training and
they're going to get a promotion because
now they're going to be an EM2 instead
of an EM1 or whatever. So get that
increase and then you know I mean so you
have to take those things into account
like that. So,
>> and I think it's also going to help the
general community, you know, so I
realize, okay, so they're getting a bump
because of they completed this rather
than just, well, why did firefighter get
this? Because they because they did X,
Y, or Z. No, nobody knows,
>> right? But I think it's also I I do like
the idea of saying okay I like the idea
of having the pay you know the pay rates
the uh wage set plan and if it's based
off of a percentage but meaning
corporate say however time when you turn
the cola up it's going to offset what's
in there it's not going to be a cola
plus
>> because that's where I think people I I
take like okay you're going to get that
plus you're going to get you know I mean
>> but you also got to keep in when you're
doing something like that is that your
pay scale needs to increase with
whatever that call is coming. That's
what I'm saying
>> because otherwise you're going to have a
pay scale and 10 years from now it's
going to be so
I understand what you're saying here 2%
then all a sudden the pay scale is not
changed by 2%. what that person is
getting now they're actually yeah I I
get it and I think it's just more well I
should say I think we just need to try
and let's put to have put the pay scale
and have a little bit more in depth
conversation once we see the numbers
>> absolutely so what can we do with this
>> well I was going to say I I wrote here I
actually have a note here for myself to
say to bring up maybe maybe we uh put
language in there that says this section
is is Um,
>> I don't know what we would put the exact
link, but basically I don't want to hold
off us moving forward with these based
on that, but I do foresee this being a
potentially lengthy
>> conversational piece. So, I think I
think leaving the language in there,
>> but just simply putting something in
there that says uh at the current time,
this section is is not uh applicable
until vote by the board of selection or
something like that.
I have I'm a visual person. I have to
see and I have to see it say okay and
then go through different scenarios and
then I can say okay yes I like this I
don't like this I'm good with this
>> and anything that encumbers the town
>> I worry about I really do that's why the
agency I work for which is paid almost
entirely by taxpayer dollars doesn't
guarantee the percentage amount that
goes into this um this retirement
account it's not really a retirement you
can add to it they don't they We have
nothing. This this is an optional thing
based on whether the agency can afford
it. Colas
at the percentage that can be afforded
or not at all on a yearly basis. It's
very refreshing because it is taxpayer
dollars. And I I guess my challenge with
this is another thing in here is for
towns similar to Middleton. has anyone
tell me within an hour of here a town
that what property tax value um
infrastructure everything you think of
that is similar to middle so that's not
really the case we're trying to compete
with towns that are not like us which we
have to do to some extent and you know I
mean I I've been supportive of what we
needed to do with with salaries and
things like that you know u since being
on the board but let's not let's not
fool ourselves We're going to game with
talents that we can't fully compete
with. We never will game.
>> We have to do our best. But I don't like
that language cuz we have to go way
back. I mean, maybe he maybe um
>> maybe
the closest has too much good property
that's that's seasonal that's going to
be taxed way more. You know, what do we
have in Middleton? I don't know if that
really tried to find anything
comparable.
>> So are you saying
>> you're saying you want that sentence?
>> I would love it personally realistic is
not what we're doing here.
>> And I think that's fine. I think we
remove that sentence and this area is a
work in progress.
>> Yeah. Because I would imagine either a
we move forward with this or we don't.
And if we do move forward with it, all
this language is going to be gone and
everything else. Right.
>> Right.
>> Um Okay. Which is Yeah, because we did
have the paint steps. You know, he
reported it was based off of I think
from 20 years ago.
>> I think it was just apartment.
>> Well, no, it was equipment operator
operator laborer um secretary
bookkeeper. So it had, you know, the
highlight of the police chief,
lieutenant, sergeant,
uh, patrollable officer. So I I think
it's just like it's one of those things
as things change. It's
and I think I would ra
change the whole language of the body of
>> just move was just move the way step.
>> Yeah. And so then longevity would be its
own um
paragraph,
>> Insert whatever. Yeah. Okay.
Um so then that puts us at overtime.
So did we All right. So here Okay. Did
we
Oh, hold on.
All right. So all the time is
Okay. So,
so we're not so Okay. So, are we
defining time. Let me just verify this
part time work
because I'm going to say so you work so
high 10 hour day. Anything over 10 hours
is overtime, not anything over eight
hours or I don't know I
>> it would be anything
over four. Okay. All right. So
>> there is definitions and I honestly
can't speak to the exact language at
this point because it's been a while
since I've reviewed it. Um, but
traditionally, unless it's contractual,
it's traditionally 40 hours.
>> All right. I just don't know if we need
to just I I'm fine with that because I
know because we always talk about the
hours in the day, people different work
and it's like, well, it's anything after
eight hours and I'm like, or is it
anything after 10 hours? Because
depending on what your work day is. But
if it's anything after 40, I'm okay with
>> I I believe statutoily that's the way it
reads, but like I said, it's been a
while. So, we may want to take a look at
>> So, yeah, it says what's called
>> someone worked
and then they had a PTO day
and then that weekend they had over
that PTO
>> it by this and by the old policy. Yes.
>> We're very frugal. Very very frugal.
>> All right. So, okay. That was the only
thing that I wanted. I just wanted a
little bit clarification on that. Um
>> what's something that we can make sure
as quers that what's called
overtime is approved uh after for full
time after 40 hours per week.
>> I think I think clarifying it a little
bit more making a little bit more clear
is better than open to interpretation
everybody.
Um, I do have a quick question on this
section as well. Uh, yeah,
>> because some towns
hit on it, some don't. Um, court time
for officers.
>> Sometimes that's in our own
SOPs.
I've noticed some have it in their
actual
>> employee handbook. And I think I'm okay
with it not being in here being handled
through you and how you and how you
handle your um paperwork, your time
sheet
>> because we're gonna base it upon you to
tell us, you know, and is specific to
your department. So,
>> okay.
>> I think that's what I would prefer.
>> No, I agree,
>> you know, versus us calling it out. So,
it hand it's handled under the SOP and
then how you
>> That's fine. Like I said, I've seen it
both ways and so I just wanted to
clarify what you guys would like.
>> Okay. Um so the next
>> you want you want that's fine.
>> Um employee so on call compensation
I know we had some
I thought we had
we have here.
So we had based off of my athletes I
said and I had over to the side so I
um each catch responsible maintaining
their anticipated call schedule
and says should the employee be calling
during their on call during on call time
they shall receive again a 4hour minimum
compensation or longer if the calls
time beyond four hours on call shall be
reported is based pay compensation.
I don't know why I have that I have that
I assume that's what
>> that's probably what they have in their
policy.
>> So So like are you talking about fire
department?
>> I just I Yeah, maybe I have
>> So like when they do an on call shift,
>> they get paid
>> at you know whatever it is uh $67 an
hour to be on call.
>> But if they actually get called out
>> Yeah. Then they get a set allowment of
pay typically four hours and the call
goes beyond four hours then they get
>> shift.
>> So I don't remember I was having this
conversation as for all employees. Well,
no. Well, no, it just said it just says
and but I have, like I said, I
specifically had fire in the EMS written
here and then it says then
I I don't know. That's why I'm saying to
get some clear, but I because I haven't
looked at this since last fall and I
have this written down. So,
>> so I can tell you on the police
department side from the documents I
found in there going through um they
kind of operated the same way when they
had on call whereas the officer got paid
um I forget what it is in the the
policy. I think it's like two hours or
something uh for being on call for like
the night shift.
>> But then if they actually got called in
and had to get out of bed and come in
here, they got paid for four hours. If
they were only here for a half hour,
they got paid for four hours. But if
they were here for seven hours, then
they got paid for the seven, but they
got a minimum of four,
>> right? So I mean maybe,
>> but we don't at this point do on call.
So this is all and I don't foresee us
doing on call,
once we're done with that call back,
>> right? You only get paid for when you
actually attend a call. I should say you
get paid your regular rate when you get
attend a call. I get that there's the on
call rate which is like $7.50 an or
something like that. Don't quote me on
that top of my head. But if you get So
say if you're on call tonight, which I'm
guessing, you know, kind of
if you get called out, you get paid a
minimum of what?
>> No, no, no. I don't No. I don't I don't
care about that. If you got called out
and you only went to the call and you
were there 15 minutes because the person
didn't need to be transported because
they just needed a band-aid on their
finger or whatever, what what would you
get paid for your calling? Would you get
paid a minimum of an hour, two hours, or
is there a minimum that you get paid?
>> It's an hour.
>> An hour.
>> Right. But I mean, so so unless you're
if you're under an hour, you get you're
no m I should I should say no matter how
much how long you're there, you're going
to get paid at least an hour and then if
you're there longer than an hour, you
get paid the additional time you're
there. So if you're there three hours,
you get three hours paid. But if you're
only there two minutes or up to 59
minutes, you're going to get an hour's
pay for going out on that call. Correct.
Correct.
>> So
um yeah. All right.
I get that
>> right.
That's confusing all to me now. Yeah, I
think I need to talk
about this
>> because on call on call means you're
receiving a reduced rate to be on call
>> and then you working
on call that means you're getting called
up and then that's when you're going to
get paid a minimum of an hour's pay for
the way Mike said it otherwise. So what
>> well I think the department now does the
department do you want to call
>> they yeah they might do you know um
>> a tree
>> tree falls or something like that one
goes out I don't know
>> like that's my point so I have to look
at
>> the only thing they go out there it's
not like it's not like one
>> but we
That's
>> Why I'm ask why I'm ask
>> so maybe it's versus on demand.
>> Well, you know what I'm saying?
You're you're expected to be available
in but you're getting paid but you're
getting paid to be on call. Well, right.
So we put
whereas I know
highway is on call not you know I mean
they don't get paid anything in addition
but they won't get paid if they get
called out. But I'm saying if you're
putting it at all then it's all for
fire,
>> right? So I think Yeah. So the problem
so uh so is Dan make an extra four hours
of pay for every meeting?
>> I don't know. No. No. No. He only gets
paid if he gets called out
>> right now.
>> Right. Yes. Yes.
>> Right now.
>> That's my point.
>> I mean I mean if this is the way he's
going to Right. So I think
>> so in the old policy
I knew it was in here. All employees
subject to being called in to work
thereby being unable to leave the area
while waiting to be called back to work.
Such employees shall be notified in
advance as to when they are expected to
be on call. The employee shall receive
one hour of overtime pay for any day
that they are required to be on call.
Each department then shall be
responsible for maintaining their
anticipated call schedule. So, I think
what we a lot of this is we used like
police department used to go on call
late at night. Uh, we'll say midnight to
6:00 a.m.
>> And the highway guys I know used to take
call
by the week. So, if they went, you know,
if they're shifting at 5 from 5 until 7
the next morning, one of them would be
on call for a week and a week and a
week. So they got an hour per day for
each day they were on call, but then it
was call back pay, which is I think what
we're looking at here if they got called
off for something. Now, I don't want to
speak out of turn, but myself and Dan
have had this conversation. I know for a
fact that that Dan does not take call
pay and nor do I.
>> We both take it presumptively as being
the department head. That is our job,
>> which is which is pretty admirable for
you guys to do. However, when they leave
or you leave,
>> well, that's what I was going to say.
But if you have this,
>> then potentially, you know, that's we
got to hold,
>> right? So, I think this obviously needs
some clarification and we need to
potentially
>> I don't know if this call out department
or if we call it out
across the board. I don't know.
>> I I think on call is great for us, but I
just don't have the resources for it
right now. All of our officers live too
far away other than myself. So,
>> and I don't get on call. So,
>> yeah. I don't want you to think what's
called against anybody on call. I'm just
trying to play that as to if we have
we're playing for everybody
>> right? I know I get it because currently
what we have in here is not necessarily
being applied because it's been the
choice of the department head on call.
So I think we need to
I guess
>> but we have say a less than reputable or
honest
fire
>> who decided to put in for on call
>> every day
>> every day.
>> That's an extra 17 hours time a week.
>> So I guess so let's
>> Julie.
>> So that's on the on call. Let's uh maybe
revamp this so just get more clear.
>> I think this is just older when the town
used to utilize water call but our our
this is just me. I think a lot of our
resources have expanded to the point
that we don't necess we use call back
but we don't necessarily use
>> but I think this beyond call is going to
be specifically more geared towards
>> at this point. I I I do agree. However,
I think this is also and looking towards
the future, we'll make sure that we
clarify.
>> No, right. I agree. I agree. I mean,
that's why we may we may say in here we
qualify meanness and say put the cap out
to say this could change, you know,
could change for
>> police and highway or something, you
know, at this time it doesn't apply to
police and highway, but that could
change could change. I don't know.
That's just kind of my thought on that.
So, um, and I will I will start back
with Garrett on this to make sure
what we're doing is what's here.
Um, okay. So, now that we
So, we have the longevity payments
>> Yeah. And so, um, I think given where
we're at now, You change that to uh
you said that was okay is the first two
weeks.
Okay.
>> If not
long
and just full. Yeah, I think that was
good. Um, I guess now
where we are these
$20 to pay these large amounts
of most people have been very surprised
by the amount that we make a lot.
I guess it would be
up to the board to determine whether or
not they want to stick with those
numbers.
>> I I would like for us to know a couple
other times to see longevity and then
kind of
I mean I think we're not in a spot,
Yeah. So I don't know
the line with whatever.
>> Yeah, I think this very
well other times may be doing other than
other benefits versus longevity. Good
point.
>> Um versus
vacation.
>> Vacation money or and or um
>> what they do for
example
like one was gone long pay would give
you extra week off.
So even if you made five years, you've
still got four, you know, four weeks
plus.
>> I think
I mean,
>> well, we are we are I'll get that.
>> Okay. So the takeaway for the um Jebity
is Tim's going to look and see what
other things may question.
>> Yeah. Um, do we ever thought like a lot
of employers would put in there um
there'll be if there's something like
this occurring um with the exception of
being held if someone's on a performance
improvement plan, but I don't know if
that's something we want to consider or
not
>> from
that Yeah, right.
>> Whe
>> So, okay. So, that gets us now to the
business and travel requirements.
It's pretty good that we embrace we
reimburse at the the federal rate. I
mean, I'm guessing all towns do that,
but again, agencies that contact with
the state generally don't do that. But
that's that's just interesting.
most in herebody.
So, we'll go to payroll deductions.
>> I just had one if we could add um
>> under the business meal business and
travel reimbursement.
>> No, payroll deduction.
>> Oh, payroll.
>> I guess it wouldn't actually sit there,
but
>> All right. So, deductions.
This is not good
hours of employment in attendance.
So here it is. This is where it says
so. So we arguing Sunday to Saturday. So
that's right. Correct. That's what I
wrote on the other page. Um the work
week standard workday. The normal work
day is eight hours. However, department
has made adopt an alternative work
schedule. So, right now we have police
has the standard workday is 10 hours.
The highway is uh maybe assigned
seasonal 10our workday because I think
that on 10 hours shift will receive
think that's fine.
>> Yeah, it says what's so
hardship only receive overtime when the
work week exceeds 40 hours.
>> Yeah. All right. So, that we had gotten
that. Okay. So,
I do have a question on this one here.
Under schedule management,
>> yeah,
>> says department work schedules and
changes must be submitted to the BOS
office by 4M on Thursday.
>> I'm fine with giving you guys our
schedules, but
>> I think I guess it says
>> I don't want you to come back to me.
They're like giving us your schedule for
next week. Not me, but for the whole
>> It does seem like it,
>> which I'm I'm fine with giving it, but I
don't know anybody that gives you guys
their schedules.
>> I mean, I don't know. department
work schedule changes must be
>> be honest I'll be okay with actually
deleting that in sense and just leaving
>> I'm fine with that too I was gonna say
unless there's going to be changes right
so I was going to say I would say
>> well yeah it's going to be significant
change like for example what's they're
going to you know
>> and what's got he's Scott scheduling his
employees to work yeah it's days
but it's like he changes say
tailor to you working Monday or Tuesday.
Yeah, I guess
Yeah, I think
that would be
Are we up to time?
for
>> I just add one real quick under
unauthorized absences.
>> Uh if you look at the third st abandoned
their position and we'll see there to
discipline including termination.
I know in the other uh repair you guys
have there just says discipline
disciplinary action or up to
termination. I didn't know if you wanted
make
>> y
>> can I ask one more question
Now that's tough cons
because someone a department head
couldn't allow someone
to start creating from home if it were
you know
>> I mean like
someone
you know positions in the office
and I know we haven't
at some points the old policies in
regards to working from home
>> and it was had it read language because
I remember I was part writing it had it
read language that said the department
head
or the board of collecting could
authorize
>> so Yes. So the holiday I think we need
to add in there
and that will change the number at the
top as well.
So, are we at Amy?
All right. What are your what are your
recommendations?
>> So, I I understand why we do what we do.
Um I'm not a huge longer
fan of it for a multitude of reasons. Um
recruitment, retention being being an
overall key here. Uh but but yes, like
Tim said, we we do get a generous
portion of it per time in the aspect of
how you look at it here. But this is
your time. This is everything. This is
your sick time, personal time, your
vacation time. This is everything.
>> So an employee gets three weeks.
That's vacation, sick, everything
allin-one.
So now their child gets the flu, they
get the flu.
They're now pretty much out of time.
that's why I'm not a fan of an acred
bank.
I am a fan and most places separated
like this is you have your sick time,
you have your vacation time.
>> I agree with that. Now, I do have some
language here for you guys because this
is also a very, in my opinion, good
recruitment and retention aspect to it
as well because some people look at it
and say, well, if they leave the buyout
because now you've got a sick bank and a
uh a vacation bank.
What you simply put in there is language
that says if they're retiring,
you will purchase the sick time at, you
know, depending upon their and and I
have a ton of examples for you, but
depending upon their their time here at
a rate up to 50%. And you cap it. So,
somebody caps at 306 hours. That's the
most they can ever get as long as they
work here. uh if they leave and they
leave under what is considered a
statutory retirement
then potentially the town buys back 50%
of it. So you have the other way where
the town was munic
but time you can roll them over as much
as you need.
>> Yes. Well yes. So I'm not even on the
the So vacation time is is just that
vacation time you're you're actually
obligated to buy all of it.
>> What's that for your for your for
vacation? Yes.
>> Because that's that's time. That's
you can phase phase it in in terms of
how much time the person can take with
them. It's considered
>> if it's
>> right but but if you're combining it
then it becomes a crude time
>> which is the same thing as vacation.
>> I don't believe
>> there's no there's no specific like your
sick time you have to provide a doctor's
note. If you call in sick and take the
day off and I see you at Hampton Beach
well now you're in violation of policy.
Um whereas with a crude time if you call
in and say hey I'm taking the day off.
It's not sick. It's not anything. It's a
crew time. You do what you want with it.
>> Huh.
>> It's unplanned,
>> right? Um, now my my my issue with it
though is just like I said to you is
people potentially
one illness and they're out of time.
100% out of time. Whereas, if you
separate it and then you put in language
so that you're not obligated to buy out
the sick time, but if the person does
become sick, they now have that bank of
time that they can utilize for their
illness. Um, and god forbid that it not
be a major illness because we also don't
have short-term or long-term disability.
>> no. Well, we do you have the ability
just saying you do have the ability to
use your PTO time like you saying it's
not like
>> now I use this example and and maybe
it's a little crude for people but I had
some other municipalities that were
looking at switching to an acrude time
and the reason they wanted to is because
all of the people that wanted to do that
that were employees were young 21 22 to
mid to late 20s at the most and they
wanted more time off. They didn't care
about sick time. And then I sat them
down and I explained to them. I said,
"What happens if you get diagnosed with
cancer?
You have three weeks." Three weeks. And
that's all we're going to give our
employee. We have an employee that works
here for 25 years. We're going to give
them three weeks. And then, hey, you're
unpaid until you can come back to work.
No, that's 25 years. You'd have more
you'd have more vacation.
>> A ton of you have based off of you 25
you would have six six and a half weeks.
I'm just saying. So use that.
>> Well, yeah. Okay. Maybe I'm maybe not
the extreme. Let's say I'll use myself
as much as I don't want it. Let's say
me.
>> Guess what's going to happen? I'm never
coming back. I'm going to be like, are
you kidding me right now? Goodbye.
>> The amount of time and effort and stuff
that I've given to all of you and to the
town, I just look at this when it comes
to thinking of the big picture of life
is kind of a kick in the teeth.
>> Well, well, I so I can speak from my
experience. All of my time I get
all time that I have to use. So, I mean,
and I've been there 38 years.
>> But again,
>> no, you can.
>> So, but I'm just saying.
>> So, now they earn less vacation time.
>> So, instead of instead of earning 6
hours of pay period, they now earn 2 and
1/2 hours of pay period of vacation time
and they earn 8 hours to month.
Oh, absolutely 100%.
That's the whole reason why
>> the cap
like for example right now I have
I think I have 300 hours of time
available to me
>> and
so I'm out
where is
>> then I'm fine whatever
>> right that's what I was gonna say So, so
you put language in there that says if
you depart new town, you don't get any.
>> Well, but but if you you get Oh, yeah.
vacation. I'm talking sick. You don't
get any of your sick.
>> But if you retire from the town, that
shows that you've given some longevity
to the town. You put in your time like
like you've stood behind everyone. I
think at that point, if you're legally
retired,
then yeah, maybe as a municipality being
given a little bonus for for staying
with us. Okay, that's where I disagree
when I was if we're going to give
somebody unlimited time.
>> then they have it until
I'm fine with that too. My biggest thing
and no matter what I just want to say is
if they haven't used it when they
retire, they don't care,
>> And you're saying
>> I'm saying I can go with either one of
those. What I would like to see is I
would like to see us.
I I don't I can say I don't think I have
separate but I do want to make sure no
one how they work because I can see how
>> well again like I said I think this is
another section that we could absolutely
discuss
>> with with some some you know uh examples
and and research into it a little bit
more but I but I think it would be very
beneficial from a recruitment and a
retention standpoint if they were
separate.
Um because in today's day and age um you
know pe people they rely on that that
sick sick bank because
you never know what's going to happen.
>> I'll give an example. When I was in the
banking world they had to pay
communication time separate from sick
time. Being a single mother with two
kids,
you know, um it was very difficult. Not
just doctor's appointments for the kids,
but um their illnesses. Um they can't go
to daycare when they are running a small
fever or if they had strep throat, they
can't go to the daycare. They can't.
this it so there's a whole bunch of
>> I don't disagree with that but I guess
what it sounds to me this kind of sounds
like and again I have to I have to I'm a
visual person I have to see how the
numbers work out because what it sounds
like oh you're going to get vacation and
then you're going to get sick time
that's actually what you're getting
today
>> I'm just saying
>> no you can you can so right now like
prime example right now you earn um I
want to make Sure. Absolutely.
>> But like right now you're looking at
2.31
uh per week. That that's what this one
is actually most likely it's based on.
Um and that is essentially a cruel time.
So now traditionally sick time is paid
not on a paycheck basis but on a monthly
and traditionally you earn a day a
month. So at the end of the year you
wind up with 12 days of sick time. Um,
but then you take this number at the,
you know, the 2.31 and maybe that amount
is 1.5 because this is strictly just
vacation time.
So they earn 1.5 as opposed to
so in the end
person still if you combine together
they're still getting the same time.
What makes it different? Because the
sick time they can only use when
>> sick time they can but the sick time
across doesn't go away
>> the vacation time get
>> you have to use that
>> right whereas
if you get you know say you have
5 hours of vacation time 5 hours of six
time
>> 5 hours of vacation time do you ever use
by the end of the year it's gone 5 hours
of your time rolls over
actually
>> and the thing is
>> yes we do we should
>> which is
what we're looking at is time.
So if you're here say 6 years and have
a month's worth of sick time and we're
stolen from sick time and suddenly you
break your arm
>> you can use that
I just
rules
vacation time
>> abs
also dependent on policy organization. I
don't know different but clearly our
agency involved lawyers who wrote ours
and you don't get you don't get paid
it's prorated for with um it was under
a certain amount of protect
I have
>> whereas
I said I'm not opposed to it. I just
need to see the numbers. I need to see
how it works out how it works because
>> I just wanted to play the seat
>> and how that is actually
like sick time. I can't say I'm not
>> Well, the crew time you just call in.
I'm not feeling well. I can't I need to
say, but if that went for a
>> need,
>> right? But what if it was one of my
kids?
>> Well, that's fine. But some places that
do not only pertain to the
>> lands.
So for example um last year I think
Oscar got
him because she had
four week.
So I follow my boss. the head was I need
I can't really work home today or be
able to sleep because he is very sick
and chancell
like Hey dad, I'm like, "Okay, good
job."
>> So then how do you work it where
>> Yeah. You you're home with Oscar, but
he's okay by himself laying there and
you can actually do work from home. Do
you consider that six times?
>> No.
Then
>> I think that would be where you go back
to the department and based on our work
policy and decide whether or not the
department has enough work and
capability to keep themselves busy for a
work day.
>> Yeah. So basically you just have to have
definitions of what for
my children I literally didn't work
because yeah
second
they needed a day off
getting us
home
>> my kids were very young when they both
between September and end of February
same.
So not just me the kids and some things
I could work from home with and
something most things
for example like say so our new
>> yeah they were once
yeah
yeah right So, okay. So, I think given
we've had really good discussion on this
and I think it's great. I think right
now we're I think we're that
opportunity. We'll keep it with some
more information to come in the fall to
say okay
this is saying we're discussions out
time and um vacation time but what we
have right now is
you know I don't have to slow down the
process. No, I don't want to slow the
process, but I know
>> thatast
I never realized how generous it was
very
because this is this is also a cell for
Because maybe we can't talk to
>> So then why step in
>> correct?
>> Because we're doing very very well.
I was just going to say,
>> you know, I think
that's my personal opinion.
>> Um, so we talked about the
off
accumulation.
You can carry over
>> one year's audit time,
Can I can I actually ask just a quick
question because it came up in
conversation today real quick on the
pool time schedule where it says 0 to
one and then it says two.
>> So that would mean when they enter year
two. Yes.
>> Thank you.
I think that was a question about
>> maybe we should be named this queen.
>> I just I mean it makes sense but it
doesn't when I look at it and and the
only reason I ask is
>> so when they enter so basically after
they've completed their first year day
one of their second year they move up to
that. Yes.
>> That was just something that came up in
conversation.
so please
actually got past where I think we got
past
the time off. So now we're kind of in
charge of the territory of having
discussed any of this before. I will
tell you all that thoroughly and I have
absolutely no money.
>> So, good job.
>> So, fulltime employees are allowed one
day per year without loss of pay to
attend services for the death of an
individual not listed in the definition
of immediate family. But we do not have
the definition of media coming up there.
under um you know working
partner about false child employee
employee
And
>> so if we have the definition of non
immediate, we just say nonit.
I just want to make sure that we have
>> the challenge is if you are if you're
in an unofficial domestic partnership
qualify.
>> Yeah. Well, I mean
finally
employ
the last three program
stay with us.
>> Okay. So, we'll go to court in our
witness.
questions about that?
Yes,
>> it's all
us.
Is that
probably the same?
will be
how do
So this is
coordination.
I was just saying I'm thinking
I'm okay.
So I think this
person
is chapter 10.
yeah,
I don't know if you want to call out
this specific
system.
>> You got it.
I know that
that's you have to talk to.
>> No, I don't believe you.
at some point in time
which I think somewhat might
>> know it's a
>> it is a K. Yeah.
>> Okay. So, we are on page
management and I think that's
This is the question.
>> I just looked that up. Uh page 30.
>> This is all pretty much the city.
So we'll go to chapter 11.
disciplinary disciplinary procedures
and I think that's pretty much
to chapter 13, separation from
Chapter 14, snaking out.
have here
alcohol alcohol.
Sorry.
I think it's really
chapter which is current.
policy approved as December 2011. So
maybe that's the time
potentially.
So that's
>> a personal information.
So that's good.
Chapter
17.
So pretty much
>> the resistance
chapter
session for
10 + 20.
>> Oh, you need your
name.
And then
this
town
that's good. Um, so let's just quickly
everybody can go off the map. We know we
have some
good
attendance and listing of positions
because that's
each attendee.
Anything
else?
Some of these never really
position.
It's a little bit different.
And we look at the crown
>> Do we want to
whatever it's
position
we looked at C.
So, um, I think we should have
>> 2019
is the personal
personal information.
I'm guessing people
>> I just wanted
to have
that there and then um
for so this form is
>> well the form is set when you first hire
somebody,
>> right? But this is this is just the
first time we hire somebody
just age
because this would be just the hiring
>> and if that's the case that's good
because anytime in the future when we
get them you can do the personal action
form or any
>> time
to do that. Um, again I is the alcohol
drug and we talked about putting
J, which is
another
um Any comments, questions, anything
to go through?
So the takeways are
takeway
and actually might be wasting as well
That's talking about potentially
splitting location
>> because that's kind of the table. So
yeah, I think that's good. Then we'll
have another workshop
changes and then
back there.
>> I would like to say thank you guys
long overdue task and thank you.
So, thank you guys for