Planning Board Meeting - August 17, 2026

Speakers are labeled SPEAKER_N. This transcript is machine-generated.

Recording

at this point.
>> All right. Where's the rest of our
board?
>> Well, it's six minutes.
>> Okay.
>> I did something to my shoulder last
night.
>> And so, let me
admit all
>> threatening.
Have you heard that my parents have put
their
just told me that?
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, the whole idea of, you
know, like not voicing threats out in
the open is kind of like a good
reminder.
>> So, they're going to Cedar Hill.
>> Uh, yes, that's the plan.
>> That's great.
>> I mean, they have to do their medical
assessment on Wednesday,
>> but there's an apartment, a one-bedroom
in the north wing that it wasn't quite
ready for viewing.
My mother didn't want the corner one
because it was the corner right next to
where the desk is and the and the door
coming in and the parking lot right
there. She didn't want that much
commotion around.
>> So, that one was available. So, we went
and saw that one
>> which is the same size as the one. Oh,
>> we're so
[laughter]
>> they set up five benches.
>> I think make it look like there's a lot.
>> Yeah. So, we went and saw that one
>> and um the people whose
whose family we're taking care of
clearing up the one that my parents are
going to get
>> hadn't gotten
better.
keep it on their
>> and then they have to go do maintenance.
He's got to do their thing. They got to
do the cleaning and then
>> we're supposed to get a phone call when
they actually are ready to tour that
room
>> because they can't accept a deposit on
the room until it's officially ready to
be toured.
>> So, I told her I said, "Give me a call.
I'll be there with a thousand bucks
within a half an hour."
>> Hey, Ross. Hello.
>> Do you want to do minutes and then
later? You want to do the hearing first?
>> We'll do that later.
>> Is that for this summer?
>> I was in a wedding this summer.
It was part of the dress code.
>> All right.
>> We are uh ready to open the hearing um
to review our newly completed master
plan. Um
>> can can everybody in Zoom see the share
on the screen? Is that working?
>> Yes, it is.
>> Thank you.
So, I'm going to do a brief overview and
then um
we're going to kind of just go through
the chapters um and and look at
recommendations.
Some of these chapters are are are not
heavy with recommendations, goals and
recommendations. Um many of them are
repeating recommendations from the
previous plan. But anyway, first I
wanted to introduce everyone so everyone
knows who's here. Um this is Eric
Sutton. We all know Steve Ross Wood,
Elise Angelo, Mike Sutherland, I'm Jane
Stevenson. Um, so we're glad we at least
have a few people who are interested in
hearing about this. It's been a lot of
work. We've been at it for two years and
we are glad that it's done.
[clears throat] We hope. Um, so uh just
to tell you how how it starts, we were
due to do to update our master plan. The
last one was done in 2013.
So in 2024, we des we designed a new
community survey to obtain information
from residents about their feelings
about the community, what they like,
what they don't like, what what they see
in in the future for playing field. Um,
uh, what aspects might be changed or
improved. And after we get the results
of the survey in July of 2024, we then
started to go through each chapter and
um and just work the process. There were
we had over 325 respondents to the
survey which was a pretty good uh yield
as they say about surveys. Um we were we
were quite obviously would have liked to
have more people respond to it but uh we
we were we were happy with that number.
it was about the same as it had been on
the last survey. So um the the results
were quite similar uh to the previous
surveys that were done in 93 96 and 2006
and the survey results really become the
basis of our goals and recommendations.
Um
so just to give you we're not going to
go through the whole survey but just to
kind of give you some of the highlights
of the survey. Um 91% of people in town
were satisfied with the quality of life
in town. 84% say would like they would
like Planefield to remain rural with
large areas of forest and farmland. Only
11% wanted to see the town more
developed.
Um they are satisfied with the current
rate of growth. Um
and the in general the comments were
that um Planefield should remain
principally a residential community with
an emphasis on responsible land use,
natural conservation, and preserving the
distinct rural character of the town. Uh
in fact, since 2000, land use patterns
have changed very little in Planefield.
In fact, there's been a modest increase
in agricultural lands going from 8.6 to
9%. land and current use have remained
virtually the same since 2010.
Um residents had articulated very strong
feelings about preserving our natural
resources particularly water resources,
wildlife habitat and conservation.
the narrative comments, the people once
they completed the survey monkey
comments, there was room for people to
to just comment make other comments. And
some of the narrative comments were that
the town should encourage low intensity,
low density commercial enterprises that
have minimal impact on the rural
character of the community or the
historic character of the village
districts. largecale or high impact
commercial enterprises should be
discouraged or even prohibited as
detrimental to the community's
character, infrastructure, natural
resources and the undue burden they
place on community services. Uh
commercial development should take place
within or adjacent to village services
and infrastructure i.e on major roads.
non-residential development should not
detract from the existing rural
character of the community uh
particularly in the village centers.
Residents would like to see more small
businesses in town um service
businesses, restaurants,
uh uh ins, you know, um what do you call
that? Accommodation. Um but we're
looking for businesses that would have
less than 10 employees.
afford we'll talk about this more when
in we're in this chapter but
affordability econ under the economic
chapter affordability was a concern for
42% of residents um respondents. Uh the
town's median income increased from 86
to 923 in the last 10 years and
surpasses Sullivan County and the state.
There are currently 433 households
reporting income over $100,000.
214 reporting under 50,000.
Per capita income is 448.
Uh 3.8 are living below the poverty
line, a drop from 5.7 10 years ago. By
the federal standard, there are no
children living in in poverty. Um but
that uh but another indicator of what of
need is what's called economically
disadvantaged student enrollment rate.
That includes students from families
below 185,000 of the federal poverty
level. By that measure, 6.56%
of Planefield Elementary children are
disadvantaged. Only 2.1% of residents
are receiving public assistance.
Um the other of course really hot tough
hot button issue for us is uh housing
and affordability of housing. Um the
medium value of a house in town is now
464,000.
An average of six new single family
homes are built each year. Almost
everyone agrees the town should
encourage additional affordable housing
opportunities. But there are multiple
reasons why largescale residential
development or multifamily development
is unlikely in Planefield. Uh enlarging
the the VR zones or reducing minimum lot
size in the RR zone might have a modest
impact, but the major barrier um is the
cost of new construction and the lack of
municipal water and sewer on the
playingfield side of town.
our ADU ordinance which we adopted in
2014 has created 20 new units of
presumed to be more affordable housing.
But um so that's the good news. The bad
news is that the monthly rent in town
has skyrocketed for rentals. Um it's
it's we are now ranks we rank third in
the upper valley behind Norwich and
Hanover for the cost of rental
properties and about 22 I think percent
of our housing stock is rental which is
higher than we might have thought.
So um that's kind of the overview and
we'll go through um each chapter. We
hope we get this up. We can get this up.
There's a lot there's a lot of data in
this and um a lot of the work was up
updating all of the graphs.
>> I want to be sure that everybody can
really see this.
>> Okay. Which one you want to start with?
>> Well, um historic resources is a very
quick chapter. It's just basically that
we you could click it up but um
basically recognizing that
[clears throat] we are unique in the
fact that we have a very rich
architectural history and you know most
of our properties in both villages are
historic properties. Um there hasn't
been a lot of loss of historic
properties and um we want to continue to
support land use regulations that ensure
that there is uh careful development in
areas with historic buildings,
archaeological sites. [clears throat]
And um one of the recommendations was to
identify sites for historic markers and
replace the markers that need it, which
is a kind of an old recommendation,
but uh our goal is to try to preserve
the historic character of the town. And
um we feel lucky that compared to many
other towns, our main streets in both
towns are still have a a large stock of
historic housing and also our public
buildings are historic.
So that's historic resources. We'll get
that in pretty short shrift. Um Mike's
going to talk about natural resources.
Well, natural resources, the natural
resources chapter is one very I don't
think we did much different for the
other chapters there
tend to be pretty much the same with
with updated figures. The natural
resources chapter has changed quite a
bit and that's primarily because the
conservation commission uh worked with a
uh a consultant to produce a new natural
resource inventory and that provides
that document or those documents uh
provide probably the best um
survey of what we actually have. That
was the purpose of it. And so we have
included those by reference and if you
go to the to the town website uh you'll
find that there are actually two uh
links to NRI documents. One is to the
produced
uh paper copy itself which is about 80
pages and is very detailed in terms of
flora and fauna and so forth. Um and the
other is to a summary
document that has maps in it that are
interactive that you can uh change to to
focus on particular aspects of u of the
resources that we have and where uh they
have some um concurrence maps that show
the gathering of multiple uh important
issues in a particular place. And that
essentially defines the areas that the
conservation commission uh are most
focused on and preserving and and
managing. Um
we um
we are doing uh some of the things that
have been recommended in there. uh
particularly
uh in the the maintenance town
maintenance uh to support uh uh the
natural resources. Uh we've been we have
created buffers in our
uh buffer buffer zones. Um that was done
after the 20067
inventory, natural resource inventory
and we have a culbert management u u
program that a replacement program that
is in the works uh to to upgrade the
culbert sizes to accommodate for larger
storms and and those kinds of things. Um
we had an instance recently to
demonstrate the uh from our perspective
uh the good power of buffers. It it
limits the amount of uh land in a
particular area that can be included in
creating lots and the buffer the the
buffered areas around the water
resources are not to be included in
that. And the result is that uh in one
program that was or one proposal that
was presented to us, the owner had to uh
refigure some of the things and reduce
the number of lots because they really
didn't have um enough land that was uh
sufficiently
um uh able to absorb water and so forth
on the lots. And you know from from the
landowner perspective that may not have
been the best thing but from our
perspective the buffers were doing
exactly what they were supposed to do
which is to make sure that uh those
areas are not overdeveloped. So um I
would point out that we have an ongoing
issue that is not in the natural
resource inventory because we're really
not sure what to do with it yet. Uh we
probably uh ought to reference it
somewhere. The state has changed the
rules about class 6 roads. Uh playing
field for years has prevented
development on class 6 roads and the
state has basically said to us that we
no longer are able to do that. And what
that means is that inevitably there is
going to be development along those
roads as people are able to create uh
buildable lots where they weren't
before. And that will have an impact on
uh one of the things that people like
about playing field which is the
contiguous un un
masses that allow for um uh game
corridors and so forth. So there will be
changes from that. We are not sure at
this point you know what that's going to
be or what you know um options we have
to help manage that process. So that's
sort of in the works. Anyway,
[clears throat] I would really encourage
you to look at the u at the website and
particularly the if you want to read the
whole document, great. But look at the
summary document that has the um maps in
it that you can manipulate.
>> Yeah, go play with the maps.
>> Go play with the maps. It's it is it is
worth doing.
And I think that project was it's about
18,000 that they spent and that money
came from current use penalties. The
conservation fund.
>> I think it's important that people know
that because
>> you know the conservation fund is funded
from development costs and then the
conservation commission used some of
that money to have this natural
inventory done and and we were involved
I say we putting it Mike in the very
first one and you've been very
complimentary of this one. You said this
one is very very well done. I think it
is and and the first one that we did in
2007
um as all as normal we are all
volunteers and not necessarily experts
and we put together a document that was
perhaps a lot more general than this one
is but that's the confidence that we had
and we felt very good about that. But
the reality is these folks have done a
detailed inventory that we can use as a
marker for future change and things like
that. So I think it does have value.
>> All right. Uh maybe we can this is the
we're going to go to the housing uh
chapter. If you can scroll down see so
people can see it.
maybe start go up a little higher so we
can just read that first opening
paragraph says
um no I meant never mind community
survey results down related to housing.
>> Yeah. Um so um
you can see this we had this was an
open-ended question uh that required a
narrative response. 275 people responded
and 47 skipped it. Um about 80 of those
responses mentioned housing and almost
all of those referred to the need for
affordable housing. Um, but of these
responses, there was also a general
consensus to maintain the rural
character of the town.
There is a question, the question seven,
how concerned are you about being able
to afford to live in Planefield in the
future? Um, this question obviously
includes cost of living, not just
housing, but a large component of that
is the cost of housing. Uh 42% of the
respondents said they were very
concerned, 34% slightly concerned, and
24% not concerned.
they and the concerns that people had
about more additional housing in town
was um loss of rural or small town
character, loss of wildlife habitat,
habitat, and traffic.
what should Planefield do? Question 10.
What should Planefield do to improve the
quality, availability, and affordability
of housing? Of the options provided, the
highest response at 44.6%
was to allow a higher density of
housing, whether smaller lots or more
units per acre in locations that are
served by water and sewer.
um which of course uh essentially limits
us to Meridan Village and some routes
out on Dean Road. You know, Planefield,
as I think you all know, does not have
municipal water and sewer and that is a
huge barrier to development on the
Planefield side of town.
>> How does the ADU thing that passed last
year though affect this? It does because
I mean you can build an ADU on any
single family lot,
>> right? So that kind of takes care of
part of that problem.
>> Well, it it it takes care. I mean we we
we've had like 20 or 21 go up since we
passed the ordinance. But um I mean I
think that
>> since last year since the new
>> No, no, no. Since since we we did the
ordinance, I I don't think there's been
any increase in applications because
>> no, I mean the
everybody can do one and they can be
attached or detached and they can be
larger than what our original ordinance
allow,
>> but the reality is we
>> we do some, but most people who have
homes in town choose not to.
>> Right.
>> Right. They it's very expensive to
build. You can't sell it separately. So
the person living in it has no is
gaining no equity. Um and it's I mean
the reality is probably half of the 20
that you spoke about which are
absolutely available in now and in the
future to be rented are probably guest
houses at very high-end properties in
the town. That is a very common ADU is
to convert a barn or an out building or
build a new building that serves as a
place for your guests to stay. Um, and
so I I don't know that it's, you know,
it is the easiest thing that can be done
to allow more housing stock,
but the barriers to entry are still the
same. Septic systems and and
foundations, you spend $100,000 right
there. And so it's just it's it's it's a
hard to, you know, we see them, but not
tremendous numbers, though.
>> Do you do you know how many are being
used as short-term rentals for Airbnb?
We don't because right now we're the
wild wild west with with Airbnbs. I
mean, the best thing we could do was was
Google Playfield and try to rent a place
and and see what you got on
>> regulation at all. You don't have to
talk.
>> We we haven't not that we shouldn't, but
we right now we have no regulations on
short-term rentals and lots of
regulations on long-term rentals, which
I think it's like the taxi versus the
Uber, right? the people that have built
apartment buildings say, "Well, then you
should have those people should have the
same rules as we do."
But right now, we don't. That's just the
reality of it.
>> Yeah.
>> You want to keep scrolling down.
>> Um, can can can the everybody watching
on Zoom, can you see this this graph
clearly?
if you're not.
>> Yes, I can. Yes, I can.
>> You can. I can.
>> All right. So,
>> I can see.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um,
so anyway, you can see we have a pretty
significant amount of housing stock that
was built prior to 1940. Um,
not well. Yeah.
And there have been periods where little
was built. Um, you know, right now with
six with six building permits a year, I
would our growth is very steady but slow
and that really hasn't changed a lot in
the last couple of decades. So,
>> right, I mean, literally the death of
Penny Goodwin changed dramatically the
subdivision potentials in Planefield. It
absolutely did. I mean, look in the
files. Pie Goodwin and Wayne McCutchen
did more subdivisions in Planefield than
anybody, but land was available. You
could log it, you could subdivide it,
and you could you could make money that
way. And and Mr. Goodwin was good at
doing that. Um, but since his passing,
we have I mean, Bane's Road is is your
project,
>> right? 16 units or 12 or whatever's up
there in the end. Um, but that's Yeah, I
mean, we just what we see as
subdivisions are onesies and twzies,
usually either to sell or for for a kid.
Um the vendido project was would be an
exception to that. He has begun to sell
the lots but very slowly you know one or
two a year kind of a thing.
>> Okay. You want to keep scrolling down?
>> Uh that just shows the building permits.
You can see we're down to six. There
were peaks in the 80s and in the early
2000s where there were a number more.
Okay, keep keep going.
Uh
well, this this shows the accessory
dwelling units um
from 2019. Do you see them?
This one is is still [clears throat] a
mystery to me, frankly. But, um, it it
does show a high number of vacant units.
um
70 vacant units, which I I kept
challenging the um Upper Valley Lake
Sunbeaby people because it just seemed
crazy to me that there were 70 vacant
units, but they insist that that data is
correct, that that includes
houses.
>> They're getting it from the US census.
>> They're getting it from the census.
>> However, their data collectors, right,
>> if they went three times and knocked and
nobody was at the house, they may have
said that one's that one's vacant. Some
of them are houses that are on the
market that are unoccupied while they're
on the market. Um,
some of them could be ADUs that are
unoccupied at the moment, but it seems
like an unusually high number to me and
I don't I don't quite know how to
account for it, frankly.
Um, but that's what they tell us. So,
uh, so this this shows you percentages
of our housing stock. So single family
85% multif family 9.2 and manufactured
or other 5.3
and we'll keep going and that's the next
section is also about age of housing
stock which we've already talked about.
Um,
yeah. So, that's pretty much the same as
what we had in previous slide.
So um
yeah, you'll see 13% is uh rent renter
occupied of the housing
and the people per household are still
basically the same less than three
uh 2.63.
So
a lot of people are living
in houses alone also,
>> right? I mean certainly one of the
things we have seen and we we know it
from the town office is that that we we
don't have houses full of young children
anymore, right? We have houses owned by
couples who are either retired or or or
have have already had their kids or have
one kid um one child. And so we don't
have our numbers. Most of our houses are
not um you know being lived in by large
families if and our school census
suggests that.
>> Um
yeah, I think we we talked about that
the medium house cost in 2020 was 327,
but [clears throat] now it's estimated
at 464. side shows you the enormous
increase in values in the last 10 years.
and uh, this graph compares us to
handover and Lebanon. Uh, obviously our
housing prices are higher than Lebanon,
but not as high as Hanover. No surprises
there.
and the the last sentence it says that
the median monthly rent in Planefield in
2020 was 1,295
or 78% higher than it was in 2000.
>> And it's that much higher again, right?
>> That much higher again.
>> We would suggest
commonly known in town that if you're
renting a single family house, you start
at $3,000 a month,
>> right? I mean, which is just seems
absolutely insane, but but you know, 35,
37,
>> haven't heard many fours, but lots of
threes, you know, 3,000 something is the
going rate for a, you know, two or
threebedroom home in Planefield that's
available to be rented.
>> Okay. And
>> so again the recommendations here uh no
surprise to can we consider how we could
allow higher density development in the
rural residential zone and um
[clears throat] also through through our
ordinances to encourage conversion of
existing structures and buildings to
apartments.
So some of the larger uh homes in the
villages or you know not just in the
villages but who that have the potential
to be converted to apartments we would
want to encourage that but uh that's not
the trend that we're seeing
>> right what we see in the office is that
we know that the residential code
changes dramatically when you get three
or more units. Right?
>> Two is easy. Two is basically building a
single family house and you add in and
you add in a little bit of additional
fire protection. when you get to three
or more units, the code is much much
more difficult. And so if you talk to
our local builders who are trying to
convert houses, they say the cost of
everything is expensive and then the
code requirements to convert the house
is expensive and they build a two family
house or
>> right
any questions from um any questions
about the housing chapter because it is
probably the most important of the all
of them
in some ways.
We still see the folks again. St.
all the way.
I don't know if we'll ever see them
again.
>> Oh, I think it's at the grid.
>> This one?
>> You like that one? There we go.
>> Anyone have any questions about the
housing chapter?
>> Can you hear me?
>> Yes.
>> It's Jordy Green. Has has any study been
done of what I would assume is the very
expensive cost of expanding the water
and sewage infrastructure?
Like has that even been looked at or
it's just so outrageous we can't even
consider it?
>> I would say not looked at Jordan in the
sense that Planefield
Water District which was private and
then gave it gave it up and became a
public because we couldn't let people
not have water. um that we're just
getting our feet on the ground on the
water side and so I I don't know that
there's been any real serious thought
there. Meridan is private so the town
has no say over that. Um you know they
could expand but the history of the
Meridan water district is really you
know onethird of the district is Kimble
Union Academy. They pay onethird of the
bills and it serves their school
primarily and a few houses in in in the
in the Meridan Village area. Um so you
know that essentially leaves you the
towns and field on bon right that has
water sewer available to it and is in
the VR zone.
>> Um that is the the most prime
developable piece of land probably in
planefield. Um but you know would
Planefield at someday have a a waste
water plant? Certainly certainly might
but it has and I think but it has not
been looked at I think seriously just
keeping the fresh water running and you
know the the water in Planefield Village
has more treatment challenges to keep it
within the state's range from public
drinking supply than the water over
here. I mean they they have to just
touch it over here with chlorine and it
meets the standards in Planefield.
there's much more chlorine that has to
be added which deals to some chemical
reactions that cause other problems in
the water system. And so it's a it's a
struggle. Um but I think you know I
think it is more likely that somebody
might do a development in Planefield
that would they would build their own
large septic system to serve it. The
condos in Planefield Village have 12
units and they have their own septic
system for that. Uh but that was done
sometime in the late 70s early 1980s and
so it's been a long that's been the one
sort of larger project that was done
with a with a very large private septic
system.
All right.
>> The next chapter.
>> Who's it? How do we unpause it guys?
Anybody got a clue on that? Um
Hit share on the bottom
and
there. Okay. Good man. Good man. See my
get that out of the way.
>> Pushing buttons.
>> I don't know which ones to push. I got
to push some of them.
>> I'm not going to volunteer to trade. You
can run if you want.
Oh, we had
any ideas? Um, go to view view.
>> Yeah, I think if you go
the speaker,
the the first the first one. Yeah,
work. How about
we'll go back to gallery share?
Shouldn't we just
Shouldn't we be on Looks like we're
split just now.
I'm going to stop the share and I'll
restart it.
>> There we go.
[clears throat]
>> Like this. Would like to get that out of
the way. We'll go back one more
and we'll go to economic base.
I'm not going to read this, but let's
take give everybody a minute where they
can read the survey results about how
what people felt about uh the economic
base of the town, business, future
business. Um you'll see only 11% wanted
the town more developed, but 18% would
like more businesses and jobs.
you talked about this most favorite
types of future economic are
restaurants, lodging, child care,
agricultural
personal services like hair salons,ries
and professional office services like
accountants, attorneys.
increased traffic was the largest
concern regarding increased development
along with increased noise and light
pollution and the loss of small town
character and loss of wildlife habitat.
Um, there was a question about business
park. Um,
and 41% [clears throat]
believe that we should favor larger home
businesses that are allowed in all areas
within the town. Um,
as part of this ordinance update, the
town created the approved combination of
related uses and approved business
project ordinances to allow for a
grouping of businesses, encouraging the
reuse of existing buildings and promote
the consolidation of essential services
within the VR zone.
Here's
the And then we'll go down to the
income. You
>> want to go to that graph?
>> Yeah, I guess so.
>> Talked about this. Um,
we can see our income exceeds.
>> Yeah, I think it's important to just uh
take a brief second to talk about the
difference between median and mean. uh
make sure that everybody understands
what we're looking at. Um the median
mean is typically what you would
consider average. The numbers you're
looking at are not averages.
If you if you lined up all of the people
in Planefield
in order of income and then you found
the middle person, that is the median.
And so what you're looking at is the
median number. And the reason that that
is used is that if you have, you know, a
half a dozen multi-millionaires in town,
that's skewed, which I don't know that
we do, but if you did, it would skew the
whole number if you averaged it. And
this makes it a little better
representation of what actually is in
playing field.
Okay. Um, this is the the federal
poverty guideline uh map. It's a little
I mean a graph. It's a little difficult
to read it, but it just basically shows
you
>> uh
what you what you need to be below to
meet the federal definition. And um I
think we can just scroll that past that.
And [clears throat] this is what shows
poverty levels. Um
you can see that our poverty levels are
far below
uh Sullivan County, Grafton County, and
the state of New Hampshire. Um
but one of the interesting things if we
continue to scroll down
is when you look at age distribution.
Um this this graph also totally
bewildered us. [clears throat]
This the first the first one is poverty
status by age group male and you see uh
no no no men under the age of 34 who
living in poverty. Then you see this
huge number of 53 53 people in the 35 to
44 year age cohort that are living in
poverty which just seems
impossible to me. But um and then you
see that we have when you get into
people over 65, you have 18 men and then
four men who were living in poverty, 22
over the age of 65. Then when you get
down to females, it changes. Uh,
interestingly enough, the nobody's no
females between the ages of 35 and 44
are living in poverty. Uh, it's just the
men. Um, and then you have the numbers
go up. People over 55, they were 12. And
then over 75, they were 43. So that
tells us that there are number of older
women uh a fairly high number of older
women who are living in poverty in
>> J what does ACS stand for?
>> Uh American uh community survey, right?
A community survey. Yeah.
>> And that's just an estimate.
>> Yeah. If but it you know you
occasionally you see these numbers you
go how how could that be?
>> Yeah. How could you have no women
between 35 and 45? And and and these
men, we we kiddingly said these are guys
who are living in the basement, you
know, computers in their parents'
basement. But
>> I mean, you not
that not that many. It just
>> 44.
>> It's just makes no sense. But anyway, we
can keep going down.
Well, this is the these are the stu this
is the this is the graph about students
who were economically disadvantaged and
it shows that over the years we have
hovered from a low of 4.2 students and
and now we're at five 6.56%
>> percent.
>> Yeah. Yes.
And this these are employment figures.
Um we have very low unemployment in
Planefield.
Uh obviously and we all know this but
high percentage of people in
professional white collar jobs.
>> Most of those not in the labor force are
actually retired.
>> Right. Right. A good point.
>> Right. Right.
And that also employment by occupation.
this one doesn't particularly talk about
medical but the next graph does talk
about medical I believe.
Yeah. So here you have look at
employment by industry. Those high
numbers are health care and um
educational services.
So that that clearly is the vast
majority of our um employment.
>> Look at how small the public
administration numbers are.
>> Right. Just [laughter] you
>> I don't know who the other people
>> um this just talks about commuting. I
don't think it's particularly travel
time to work. I don't think there's
anything particularly interesting about
that.
this talks about the inc the incredible
um increase in the number of people who
work from home uh which changes the
percentage of people who are traveling
to work from 90% in 2010 to less than
82% in 2024
>> and that trend is probably swinging back
now.
Since we have virtually no public
transportation available for our
residents,
uh it means you need a car to get to
work.
>> And fair to say we have had residents
come in who said, "Look, I'm, you know,
I need a car. I need a boss, some way to
get to Lebanon or I can't get there."
Right? Somebody has to give me a ride,
>> right? and and it it's probably more so
in the transportation chapter, but it is
one of those things that public bus
stops somewhere in playing field between
Lebanon and Claremont is has to happen
some
>> at some point and and you know and again
mostly it's a it's a function of the bus
companies making the runs and being
willing to add a stop. It's not the town
being able to run a bus service.
>> Um, this is per capita income.
This is about property tax rates.
Everyone's favorite subject. But um
do you want to talk about that, Steve? I
don't there's
>> Yeah, I mean I think we understand with
the t the system in the state of New
Hampshire for raising money which means
it's primarily driven from local
property taxes and the fact that you
have a a a house a town where nearly all
the houses are are lived in by the
people who who own them, you know, and
there is just
if you want a high level of service,
which Planefield residents do, whether
it's educational or municipal. Um, and
the h and and you have basically normal
houses. I mean, the model in the state
of New Hampshire used to be Granthm
because they had Eastman and Waterville
Valley because they had condos for the
mountains. So, those people always say,
and we've been in these meetings before,
let's have a Walmart. Well, a Walmart
per square foot doesn't pay anything in
taxes, right? It's finished space.
Townline Equipment pays a lot of taxes,
but it doesn't pay taxes like a house
pays taxes, right? I mean, it's it's
it's scaled up because of the size of
their shop, but it is finished space.
And so, the model to have a low tax rate
in New Hampshire used to be to have lots
of second homes. And those second homes,
I mean, grant them, while still low in
taxes, lower than us, has seen an in
tremendous change in in the Eastman
homes. They are now primarily for, you
know, homes that people commute in,
right? and and so you know you either
spend less or you find another a way to
increase the base and the base you know
the increase in the base isn't single
family homes that people live in it just
does not work and so playing field is a
perfect storm of that you know a demand
for high services and a and a relatively
modest residential tax base um where
people the most expensive house in
playing field that pays $60,000 a year
in taxes is by the time they fund any
sort of municipal services and two kids
in the Planefield school, it's a loss,
>> right? There there isn't there isn't a
um there there isn't anything to to go
toward lowering the rate. Um and so, you
know, yes, Pointville is a high tax rate
town. I think we're 1011 out of 235.
Um but it speaks to the level of service
our residents want. And we also have
incredible collections in terms of, you
know, when Michelle bills $9 million,
all but 50,000 of that 9 million is
collected by the time we go to lean. And
so there is, as much as we would like
Playfield to be more inclusive, there is
not a financial crisis in playing field.
The bills get paid
>> and and that's just the reality of it.
And so the fact that people can pay it
and vote for it means they want it and
we provide it.
>> Can I comment?
>> Sure.
>> Something's got to be wrong about Hart's
location having the highest taxes and
Martin's location having the lowest when
they're within half an hour of each
other up in the White Mountains. Like I
feel like the
>> Well, it's the lowest.
>> Yeah. But Hart's location.
>> It's the highest. the lowest tax rate in
the state
>> and the highest is
>> the highest is
>> but they're they're neighbors and
they're both up
>> I
>> we we can look at that I I don't know I
don't know something [laughter]
>> they changed they didn't used to put
those in the list and they changed the
list because I'm the one that did that
and it didn't make sense to me either
>> u but the list that's what the list now
shows unless I totally bundled it which
is not out of the realm of possibility
So they would check it.
>> So playing field tax rate is 149 out of
228.
>> We rank we rank 149 out of 228
>> for tax tax rate. Yes.
>> It's not it's not the pure rate. It is
the um that the
>> full value.
>> Right. But that's but that's a fair
comparison.
>> Right. It is it is a fair comparison.
>> Yeah. So it's not it's not the actual
number of dollars but it is the state's
full value comparison of mun
municipalities
equalized to the equaliz
you want to keep scrolling
two people in Martin's location
>> and and that's why they didn't all of a
sudden they put him on the list maybe we
should take them Here's [laughter]
the new here's the newest data
>> that we have. I mean, the DRRA updates
this, but it always lags a couple of
years.
So, so Planefield ranks 186 out of 220
in tax rate comparisons with other New
Hampshire. The lowest number one is
Thompson who you can purchase while the
highest is Claremont
Lebanon 199 Cornish 154
handover 57field
186.
>> So that says that we're on the lower
quarter of tax rate.
>> No, the higher the highest.
>> We're in the higher half,
>> right? So the, you know, so we're 186,
Claremont is 220
is and the the I don't the max depending
on how you count it. I guess they're at
220 now. Used to be 234 was was the
number they based it on. But um we're
not I mean one never when no one who
prospects on properties in Planefield
ever leaves the town office having been
told this is a town to retire to if low
taxes are what interests you because
it's just not true. I mean it it it
isn't.
>> Um and so it's
>> you know and again but look at I mean
Lebanon is 199 Cornish is 154. It it is
it is the upper valley, right?
>> That's where we you fall if you're in
the upper valley.
All right. You want to keep going down?
>> Do we go to recommendations?
>> Sure. Recommendations. I'm thinking we
got nine chapters. So,
>> okay. Yeah. Um
so uh just to make the point about the
that re first recommendation, you know,
uh we we are fortunate that we we have a
system in place through town human
services and also the Shell Trust to
really assist families who were in the
economically disadvantaged uh criteria,
meet that criteria. I mean, we are a
very wealthy town and um I would argue
that we could afford to be doing more
except now that we have the shell trust
that's a way that's a mechanism that's
is really helping to meet that need.
It's not just a line item in the budget
for human services. So, uh that has
enabled Stephanie to do a tremendous
amount for many people in town who
otherwise would be uh struggling. I
mean, if we think about our
infrastructure and what our role might
be in the upper valley, I mean,
high-speed internet
throughout town will help with home
businesses and people that want to work
from home. But essentially, Planefield's
role in the Upper Valley is residential
housing,
>> right? We we don't have a wastewater
treatment plant that unifirst would need
to do laundry services like they do on
Etna Road or and you're not going to get
a Walmart. You're not going to get, you
know, big retail. Although, you know,
Lebanon would suggest that big retail
has not saved them very much. It's it's
it's cost them more. So I think if we
look at what our role is in the upper
valley, like most of the small towns,
Cornish, Planefield, Lime, our role is
residential housing in the economic
centers are Claremont and Lebanon,
right? I mean, that's that's where
people go for their shopping, they go to
work, they go for their medical. Uh we'd
love a doctor's office. That'd be great.
>> That would be great.
>> That would be great. Um
>> yeah, it's always been a bit of a
mystery to me. I look at lime. Lime is
very similar to us demographically, very
similar in terms of income,
>> but yet they have a lot around their
green, you know, they have they have
>> businesses
>> businesses, they have law law offices,
they have
>> and I think some of it has and I never
understood why.
>> Well, I think some of it is just a
longer shot to get to Lebanon, right?
Nobody would do a a business in playing
field because there's seven of them in
Lebanon six miles up the road.
>> That's true.
>> You know, where lime you got to drop all
the way to the upper, you know, you got
to come down to Lebanon. Now, handover
is mostly Dartmouth College, right? I
mean, that's what Hanover is is
Dartmouth College.
>> Lime is suburban Hanover.
>> Right. We're suburban Lebanon.
>> Yes. And and I to me it seems way off
your town.
>> No. If you look at the data, it's not I
haven't compared it to this last census,
but it's very very similar.
>> So, the one thing that I would comment
on, it's not exactly economic based, but
it's tax rate, um,
is since 70% of the taxes go to the
school, right? Um, and since this is
being discussed and is
um likely to be moved forward by the
school board this March, is um anything
that could be done to lower the school
tax rate would majorly benefit the
Blanefield tax rate,
>> which and and the vote will be on on us
merging Cornish,
>> which I think is most people have
probably heard that's being discussed.
Well, uh, well, we have our
representative here. State funding has a
lot to do with that. And the worse
[clears throat] it gets, the more we
pay. It doesn't. And it's just that
simple.
>> Yeah. Um, yeah. Right. That part we
can't directly change, but um, but it's
hard to know. We'll see what the numbers
come out, but it's in all likelihood
going to lower the tax the school tax
rate by I would say 10 20% in both
towns.
>> Mhm.
>> By merging
>> and which and merging means closing the
corner school,
>> right? Now the two drivers in the school
costs are special ed and administration
which are unfortunately special ed is
tied to federal things. So it's very
complicated to undo it but it's not
funded starting at the federal level all
the way down. They changed it a little.
We changed it a little bit with a bill
that just passed that changes the ratios
of who pays what and when they start to
pay for special education services. the
administration part. have been trying to
encourage Cornish and Planefield for
example to actually become one SAU that
you don't have to buy two computer
systems to go to eight meeting was a
week you know
>> but nobody wants to do that so I don't
know how you
>> how we get well Cornish it down right
>> well
>> well Cornish went down
>> I thought that that came up at the
school meeting about whether they wanted
to pursue the
>> No they voted down a bond for 11.5
million to fully renovate their school
to keep it a K through eight.
>> But but they did pull out of the middle
school project, right? They basically
>> they didn't pull out.
>> Never went in. Okay. But but effectively
didn't bring their kids.
>> Yeah. So there was a potential to have
the middle school,
>> right,
>> move to playfield with K through five
staying in Cornish. Um and functionally
that remains on the table but um outside
of it being a co-op and so this I don't
know how much going to go into the
schoolboard thing but
>> well but um the co-op proposal that will
go forward is going to be a one school
model which means Cornish has to decide
to close their school.
>> Huge decision.
>> Huge decision. Yeah. But but I think
you're you're right at 70% of the weight
you you wag the dog and and so it is if
we're going to see reduction it comes at
in the educa significant reduction it
comes in the educational side. I mean
you know we may end up merging with
Cornish for for things like police
services just because neither town can
can hire police officers right there
aren't enough and so there probably
would be savings there. So there are
things on the municipal side we should
be looking at with Cornish as well. But
as we all know I mean we all spent years
here. I mean your your identity your
township is very important to people and
it's hard to give that stuff up. People
don't want to give that stuff up and it
will it's a it's a breaking of the bank
that eventually does it right. The
numbers are just too expensive and we we
may be very close to that right now. We
certainly feel like we are right. Right.
I mean, we do,
>> right?
>> And but it Cornish is not going to want
to give their stuff up any more than we
would want to,
>> right? I mean, the voters of Cornish,
they care. They want their kids to go to
Cornish school,
>> right? If they can,
>> which is understandable, but they don't
get in that doesn't work. You get in the
one that drives,
>> right? Well, I think the sales pitch to
Cornish is that you you
we're going to have one school. They're
going to own a chunk of the Planefield
school, right? It's a cooperative school
is I mean, right? It's not it's not with
their tuition students. They got
ownership in it. It's it's it's theirs.
>> And so that may be hard for playing
field to to say they want to do, right?
>> I mean, so, you know, but but we're
talking about changing the economics of
our town. That is a place where it
happens. It's unlikely that some factory
is coming to playing field to pay a
million dollars a year in tax and save
the tax rate, right?
>> And and if it did, it would be building
something people wouldn't want. at least
wouldn't want in their backyard.
>> Yeah. So, I don't know if that's
something you want to include in your
recommendations or
>> I think it was the last bullet point
which is about regional cooperation. I
think that would maybe that would fall
under that.
>> Yeah, I promote well
>> we may want to strengthen that a little
bit or something. I think it's I mean
>> or just add regional cooperation is a
pretty general term and add
>> and potential school consolidation
>> well actually any kind of consolidation
like police for example so
>> cooperation and consolidation
>> right you know right
okay all right let's go to the next
facilities
you want to talk about This is a pretty
straightforward
>> description of our town facilities.
>> I think the biggest difference was the
addition of the um when we get into the
the fire departments, the fact that
there's uh they were consolidated into
one. It's Planefield Municipal Fire
Department now. There's not two separate
entities.
And um the other things that made a um
an appearance in this one that were not
in previous
uh that we have the two libraries now
rather than just the one. and our um
health and human services and um
emergency management
and um
the health officer those were almost
non-existent in the last master plan. So
when we get to that section uh in
general with here uh people are happy
with the high rate department. I mean
almost to the point of like pom poms and
cheering when they see them. Uh but this
is what I was talking about the human
services and health officer and the
um section of this. Um I mean obviously
not a building but u a service that has
been incorporated into the town
administration that makes such a
difference.
like you were talking about before uh
with Stephanie with the shell fund. Um
that's something that didn't exist the
last master plan. Uh there's the food
pantry. Um Stephanie has a um a series
of volunteers throughout the town to
give rides to appointments for people
who can't get there. Um she does
check-ins all over the place. Um as and
one of the things that happens with her
particular job is that she has a lot of
overlap
between the human services, the health
officer and the emergency management
roles. That's so often times she wears
multiple hats in different
circumstances.
Um, we've come a long way in bringing
our uh town buildings
um into the new century with um heat
pumps in this building and um we were
just we're in the process of using the
old heat pumps from the Merida building
for the um highway department building.
We just did a complete roof on the
highway department building. Looks very
nice. We don't have to worry about that
caving in on anybody. And um that was
that was all grant money, wasn't it,
Steve? That the roof
>> Yeah, it really like maybe 10 to 12,000
of town money to for overflow of costs.
and and in terms of you know it was in
an intersection of or or and and the
selectman took the route of existing
facility. I mean essentially the work
we've done at least is referring to on
the highway garage means that we are we
are committed that we're not building
the new highway garage in the next 20
years. That is your highway garage. Um
and so that that relieves the voters
concerns about a $5 million bond for a
new highway garage and adding to the
debt of the tower. We're going to use
the one that we had. One of the
interesting things, and this is a
challenge for the town administrator and
the next town administrator and board of
select as our residents get further away
from blue collar work, they are
absolutely amazed that when it snows 20
in, the road gets plowed or that the
road agent can come along and grade or
cut a big tree. It is the local folks in
town who have lived here many years or
are in the trade of of dirt work who see
some of our techniques needing
improvement because you're absolutely
right. The survey says everybody says,
"My god, I just love the highway. I
can't believe they plowed the snow."
Well, they're in the business of plowing
the snow. And so a real challenge for
the town going forward, a place where
savings could be had would be to be more
efficient in our grading, more efficient
in our in our road maintenance that
lasted longer through these more
dramatic storm events that we're having.
And what that generally means is as t as
people retire and age out is an
upgrading of the personnel at highway
department to more detailed level of
skills, right? You know, I mean, our
guys used to make $20 an hour. they now
make $26 an hour, but a greater operator
would expect to make $40 an hour and and
and it's that kind of but the greater
operator could save you $10,000 a year
if you could have one, right? Because
you wouldn't be hauling gravel and
fixing roads after thunderstorms. And so
it's a real paradox for us because the
public who is less involved in
maintenance of their own properties and
of town stuff than they've ever been in
our community is supportive of the
highway department. There are those of
us that could see there are places for
improvement and and and we need to to
make those, you know, make those leaps
particularly with climate change. I mean
cl, you know, hundredyear storm events
now happen every other year and and
we've had a nice summer this year. We
had nice summer last year, but we are
working on resilience. But highway,
you're going to see the same highway
garage and you're going to, you know, I
think if anything, we would want to put
our resources into higher skill levels
in the equipment operation and and road
agent Collins knows that. I mean, we we
talked to him about it a lot. We we ask
our road agent in our town to do way too
much. He can't be the mechanic and the
road agent and the equipment operator.
just not enough room and or time in a
day for for that. So we need to
diversify there
and that's going to cost money by the
way. It's not going to be inexpensive
but it will save money
and we have done a good job with getting
off of fossil fuels. Yes. the the really
the real
um crown in the jewel is the Meridan
library which now has you know um
donated now.
>> Yeah. I mean essentially has a solar
panels on the roof literally and I got
to say this in a meeting so they get
more and more credit for it. The cost to
put solar on the Meridan library with
conventional um companies was $75,000
and they did it for $30,000 using a
fellow from Cornish who's very involved
in solar and has a solar policy people
who are interested. Um and they now have
a building that cost the taxpayers no no
additional dollars that is net zero. I
mean, it it climate is exactly the same
in that building 365 days a year and it
generates no bills. I mean, it's it's a
it's an impressive building. If you want
to feel bad about your house, go spend
an afternoon in the American Library
because they because it can be done that
way. Um,
and then, you know, obviously the gravel
pit is one of those things that we don't
talk much about, but when you don't have
a gravel pit, you will see a very
different um, and some would argue we
don't have one now, by the way. I mean
the material that come out comes out of
the pit is not particularly high quality
better gravel than sand but it has a
finite you know use and and we'll end up
>> I think it's important to draw attention
to the fact that there have been monies
put aside for the reclamation of that
area.
>> Yeah. Scott Mcclelay 20 years ago said
throw $5,000 a year in in and put $5,000
a year in a reclamation fund and when
you get done have to close the pit. I
mean, what's the pit most likely to be?
Planefield's biggest solar field, right?
That's looks right and and bothers no
one sits low. Um, if I think right now
we would burn the telephone wires off
the or the electric lines off the poles
because there's not enough
infrastructure to take as much solar,
but there is to Alisa's point, there is
a fund that will put the gravel bit to
bed.
>> And and and it's been a very, you know,
that was one of Scott Mcclelay's
suggestions at a town meeting, and it
was a very, very good one. And as Steve
says, we love our toers. Ah,
>> right. Yeah, we love our toers to an
insane amount. I mean, the cost
is insane.
>> Yeah,
>> but it is true.
>> And description of the libraries and the
playing field school.
>> There it is. I was tempted to do a
driveby on my way over just to see
what's, you know, what stage they're at
as far as um the addition and all of
that, but um
>> it's all it's pretty much all inside,
right? See, it's such a small addition,
it's hard to see it, but it's but it's
>> I'm thinking that that might be a spirit
day thing, you know, that maybe that
should be open for people in spirit day
to check it out.
>> Take a look. Yeah. Okay. Mhm.
>> I mean, they're paying for it.
>> Cemeteries, we got all of them. We need
>> And and some new thoughts in the
>> Oh, yes.
>> Actually,
>> we want to talk about electric
companies.
>> Planefield has three. We have cable TV,
but almost no one cares anymore because
we have fiber and so you can and we're
gonna have more fiber um very very soon.
If you believe I don't know that a poll
some of the poles in Planefield if you
go down state road I don't believe they
can hold any more fiber. There is so
much stuff hanging off some of these
utility poles but we are we are
scheduled to have broadband throughout
town by the fall.
>> Fall's not that far away. No, but if you
walk I mean if and if you think it's a
myth or don't believe it on your way out
go walk up the stairs you can see the
hub it is being built up there. Um
granted hub 66 has been slow. New
Hampshire co-op is up and running. So
you if you're on the coast I just
switched over
>> if you're having co the co-op you can
get broadband. Um and hub 66 does exist.
And then we talked about the water
districts. Yeah. um private and public.
>> Yeah, I don't think that expanding the
water lines and playing field is viable
until the kinks are worked out of the
system as it exists.
>> No. And water is relatively easy for
developers, right? A well, a single
residential well will serve lots of
units. It's the it's the waste water
which is terribly expensive.
Nothing
exciting there.
>> All right, let's go to another one.
>> Recreation. I mean, basically, it's a
love fest with trails, right? Right.
>> Yeah. It's mentioned in many of the
narrative remarks about people wanting
enjoying the trails, wanting more
trails.
There's a point at which the the number
of trails detracts from the experience.
>> People get a little too aggressive with
how many trails they think they need in
the same place,
>> And you get a spaghetti thing that
>> does not enhance the environment
>> and we have seen a return to normaly
with with CO in the rearview mirror. I
mean, it was it was out of control for a
while. most of the parking lots, the
school being the hub, but there being
lots of smaller parking lots serve that.
People love the trail networks. I mean,
they it's right
>> people come into the town office to make
their donations because they they've had
such a good experience on on the trails.
>> Were we going to put the trail map in
here or we just were
>> I think we we were going to put a link
to where you can find it. Yeah,
>> that goes all the way back to the town
survey that we did in 1985.
The town we had the meeting at Sing,
>> right? We had a community profile
>> and and and the trails group came out of
that and and of course the towns and
bridge got built and and it's it's all
history, you know, and it's been really
the feel-good story of a couple of
decades now. 40 years. That was 1986.
>> People can get as
>> No, 96. Sorry. 36.
>> Almost regardless of what your abilities
to do activities are, you can find
something that you could enjoy on in the
trail network. There's flat trails,
there's steep trails, there's views,
there's, you know, um, we do get, I
would say, as we have more users, as the
upper valley grows, the trails will have
more users. There is a increased desire
for for additional things. We don't know
what to do with ebikes yet. You know,
Enfielders have more experience than
that. Horses, people don't have places
to ride horses that they used to. They'd
like to be on our trails. We've resisted
that so far for a bunch of reasons, but
that comes up every year or um ATVs,
horses.
>> You need quite the poop bag if you were
bringing horses on the trail.
>> And and we have we've had some. I mean,
and that is the first complaint is that
there's horse manure which is almost
comes with horses without question. Um,
and so, but it is, but I think as the
upper valley grows, Planefield's natural
resources will get more use. The the
Connecticut River will get more use. It
does get more use. The trails will get
more use. I mean, come on a Saturday and
look at the trail heads. It's not
uncommon for there be to as many as
Vermont cars, as New Hampshire cars. And
that's not a bad thing. It's just it
shows you that people out of Planefield
are are coming to use our trails.
>> Um trails are very concentrated. When
the group trail group first started,
they were working on trails on the
planefield side and some other things.
And right now, none of that is happening
that I'm aware of. Right.
>> And so everything focuses on
>> narrative.
One of the things I would say that has
helped is that in East Planefield
there's always been a very extensive
class 6 road network and and that was
used by crosscountry skiers, by
snowmoilers, by ATVers and and by right
I mean it's a public road. You can use
your ATV on it in Planefield. um the
trail network has pulled a lot of those
non-motorized uses onto the trails,
leaving that other area for the people,
you know, for folks who have either
ATVs, um you know, we have not been hit
here with the side by side craze, but
you know, go north of here, not very
far, and everybody drives their side by
side to the they won't there will come a
day when you'll see side by sides parked
at Thomas Tavern. People will have
wanted to be able to do that. We up
north it's it's common here we we've not
seen it. Um but again
>> can I ask question?
>> Yeah Steve question. So it seems to me
like the class six roads over here in
Planefield or the natural trail uh uh
flow if you I mean they're owned by the
town. I mean there's all kind of
disputes of who can like uh block one
off and all that kind of thing. But
there are some beautiful
>> Yes. class six over here like from Ledge
Road down to Peterson Road or or I think
that's what it is, the one that goes by.
>> Well, you're absolutely right. Yeah,
you're absolutely right. And there are
statutes which would allow those to
become trails only. Um you you um but
right now the class 6 roads are wide
open for for vehicles. People can drive
their cars down them if they choose to.
Uh but I think in you know one of the
things we've always thought would be
really cool playingful village was a
walking loop you know Peterson Road.
>> I'm not abdicating I'm not advocating
closing them off to like vehicle traffic
but I am saying that they are a natural
usually there's nobody driving down
through there so you can have a great
great walk. Uh for example lead road
down Planefield Village is awesome. Uh,
and you won't encounter anybody. Maybe
but maybe maybe somebody with a dog or
something like that.
>> Anyway, I'm just saying
>> I'm just saying there's a better trail
network over here than we give ourselves
credit for. And may, you know,
>> that's all.
>> Point taken. Okay.
>> But I do think it would and I'm not
suggesting impeding on the classics
roads. I mean, I think people in in
Planefield Village are hungry for a
walking trail, a place to go when it's
not 12A. Um, you know, Longacres Land,
Haywood and Westgate gets a lot of
activity. That's about to stop because
Norman and Bobby are going to build a
house right in the middle of it. Um, but
it is I I see people walking up to Al
and for a while we had worked with the
>> Seventh Day Adventist Church or run a
school before them. The idea of getting
an easement over Clay Brock connect to
this class six road on uh on either
Sugar Hill or Peterson, however you you
call those roads up there. But the
ability to have a loop for people to
walk in Planefield Village would be
really nice and that's I think a missing
piece from our recreation puzzle.
>> Okay. Right now we just go up and down
the street and up and down.
>> Yes. Right.
>> Yeah. And it's not a particularly
pleasant street to walk on. I mean it
isn't. I see the folks go because they
want their exercise.
>> You can go up Dodge Road to Lang and
down and
>> come out come back down lot. What what
one what one what one what one what one
what one what one what one what one what
one what one what one of the unsung
trails in playing field that really
should get more use and I'm sure she
would continue to to maintain it maybe
pick up the maintenance like it was when
it was first built is Colleen O'Neal has
an access off of um Hell hollow road
that goes up to the top of the world and
it's it's you know she's got a bridge
she's got a gate tells the rules of the
of the road but essentially you're
welcome you know as she is on all of her
land and that's a pretty aggressive I
mean the trouble with Langwood farm farm
is it starts low and goes high and so
it's steep. Um, and so you you you
you're going to go uphill and you're
going to have to like going uphill or
you're not going to like it. But that is
a place I mean I park there a lot and I
very rarely see another human being. Um
the the other one which we give our
friends in Cornish credit is the Lipford
Forest. Lifford forest is is crazy good.
I mean, Bill Lipford down there owns a
couple thousand acres and begs people to
come use it. Um, and is maintaining
cross country ski trails on it and all
sorts of things. Another resource for
people in town in the upper valley. Not
I don't think nearly as well known or
used as the trails at the Plfield
School, but literally he has a Facebook
page where he posts every day about what
the work they've been doing and and
hoping people will come and and they do.
I mean, there there's people, but it's a
nice resource that's very close to our
town.
Transportation, James.
>> Yeah, there's there's not too much
transportation. I mean, it's those
figures haven't changed or in terms of
how many miles are
>> right. We've added a few spur roads.
We've updated some sixes to fives and we
added veins or
>> but I think we can skip right through
that. You know, there's unless somebody
has a question.
>> There's not a lot there.
Are we finding any results with the tra
having some of the traffic um speed
things on in the village?
>> I know. It wakes me up.
>> You mean just in terms of the signs?
>> Yeah. I think they're they're effective.
One of the things it does is we have a
couple different ones. We have one you
don't know about, which is just a black
box that most people think is part of
the new broadband system. That actually
gives the driver no information as to
how they were doing for speed, but gives
our police really good information as to
what the real speeds are and what time
of day those people so they can target
patrols given how limited we are in
police being on the roads at the right
time. But yeah, our police department is
is, you know, because of the lack of
staff, they are depending very heavily
on we have both a trailer and then we
have this thing that bolts on to signs
and and we use it I think more
aggressively than the state had expected
we'd use it. But it's really a very nice
device. It as long we've made a bracket
up that allows you to hook it to any
sign. You want it hang hung on a sign
that has the speed limit of the of the
you know so the driver sees 35 and then
they see their speed their digital
speed. You have to give them that
information if you're going to. But that
that little thing has worked out really
well. We laughed at it when we first got
it, but it lasts it'll last a week on
one charge and he can put that anywhere
around town and he we can lock it right
to the signpost.
>> What kind of stipulations was it not be
in the same place forever and the way
that we
>> Yeah. In fact, we use it in more places
than we're approved
>> and that makes it easy to do. But it but
it's that that's that's been a really
nice addition to their you know Rob DPro
is fond of saying the trailer is is his
assistant and so he's deploying his
assistant.
>> Um I think the biggest change
transportationwise playing field
>> is absolutely 120 and 12A and probably
12A. I mean 12A is just
>> different. You you could say it's good,
you can say it's bad, but you can't say
it's not different. I mean, thousands,
3,000 cars a day um come through the
village. Now,
>> I pulled out of the driveway tonight
into a a group, made myself one of a
caravan of about a dozen. You can
literally see the lights in Lebanon,
right? It's how many cars can get
through the lights and and then they
come down and those people, many of them
are coming to Planefield, many are
passing through. But it is a significant
regional change is the is the traffic on
those two roads. Um and you know, they
are commuting roads. That's where people
are. Um, we are just about to do because
the regional planning commission has
some money, we are about to do a road
surface management redo on the paved
roads so the road agent will have better
data to determine what roads to pave and
what roads not to pave and and and
repair and all of that. So, that's a
good thing. Um, gravel roads, too many.
Everybody wants to live on a gravel road
cuz they've seen the yellow bean catalog
and then when they actually do, they
hate it. Um there's one day in October
when it's super pretty and you can walk
your golden retriever. The the rest of
the time it's either muddy or dusty
and uh and that's just
and they're expensive to keep up and
maintain, but pavement is prohibitively
expensive to put down.
I continue to think that we ought to
benefit from Enfield's experiment with
putting some hard pack in the mud
plexes.
>> Well, our friends in Cornish are doing
it now. If you go up Lang Road, they
they've added um hard pack to Lang Road
and and seem to be having positive
results. The other thing Cornish did,
which I hadn't seen in 30 years, which
we'll have to consider, is they chip
sealed Penman Road. And I thought, "Oh
my god, as I pulled it on my bicycle,
this is going to be terrible." And it
wasn't terrible. It wasn't It wasn't too
bad.
>> It wasn't terrible. As long as you stay
on your bike,
>> right? Well, Right. Yeah. You don't I
mean, and I don't know, Ross, you're the
engineer, but I assume chip seal is a
maintenance issue for existing pavement.
It's not It's It gets its strength from
the pavement underneath.
>> Yeah. I think it's like a paint coat.
>> It's a seal. It's a It's a way to maybe
keep water out.
>> Is it like old shoot up asphalt?
>> Rock. It's little pieces of rock, I
think. [clears throat] I I haven't seen
it used. I've only been with the state
for five years and I haven't seen any.
We haven't none of our annual paving
programs have put any new chips sealed
down.
>> Cornish is the first time I mean I
haven't seen I mean our road agent was
told by their road agent they were going
to do it and it it it for for the moment
it looks good and has a dec you know you
have to get the shape right before you
put the chip seal on it and it's
incredibly risky because it's sticky and
it's wicked sticky.
>> That's a good point. it won't do
anything to solve the problem of like
ruts or like get a road like your road's
like your shingled roof like it to shed
water. So when it gets all ruted out um
the chip steel is not going to help that
you have to get your level first
>> but it is a you know I mean it is
>> pretty nice right now. [laughter]
>> Yeah. No, I've been shocked that it
didn't flatten my tires or take me out.
>> Yeah. Oh, I was on that bike.
>> We haven't added scenic roads in
decades. We have the same list that came
out of the 1980s, early 1980, 1970s.
>> They're still scenic.
>> Yeah. And they and they do have a
requirement for utility companies and
and people to to pay attention when
they're cutting trees into town when
it's doing work.
>> Well, basically, all of that says that
we don't have transportation systems in
the town place,
>> right? Okay. So, let's just keep going.
>> Although, I do think there's a chance
that the Lebanon airport has whether
it's a good thing or bad thing for
playing field. It seems to Lebanon is
over closing them. You know, that was
that sold a lot of Valley Newses and
there seems there's at least one carrier
up there now, Kate Bear. We have helic.
>> Yes, we do.
>> How [clears throat] many?
>> Two or three, right? Roger Sharky.
>> Well, he's had one forever. I brought
his helicopter to touch a truck, which
I'm sure was very much better than the
town's Mac dunk truck, right? I mean,
kids want to go see the helicopter. Who
wouldn't?
Park and ride, one we've talked about.
And the Christ Community Church in
Planefield Village is the is the site
that's often discussed or at least
talked about. It exists and it's right
off the road. 120 is a little harder. Uh
what we learned is that people want to
meet right on the road, right? They
don't want to be driving whether it's a
bus or commuters hurricane right away,
right? We do that a lot. Um
trails,
bicycling, promote it more. Don't run
them over.
easier said than done.
Is there any chance of getting some
sidewalk on baller?
>> That is the and the problem with playing
field and sidewalk on baller and it's a
great idea. It will have to be fully
funded by playingful taxpayers because
it is we are too wealthy to qualify for
safe school money. There's just other
places. And when the folks come, they
look and they're like, "Oh my god,
really? That's your traffic?" For us,
every child on that road is precious and
the most important child, but there
aren't enough of them, right? There just
aren't enough kids using the using the
road. Um there was a time when KUA was
very interested in in helping with that
because their kids, you know, they have
a fair number of kids that go down. Um,
and the problem with B on a road, we've
walked it with Town Engineer at least
once,
a sidewalks becomes a dam and so then
you have then you're funneling water
either into closed catch basins which
are expensive. Ask the state about Main
Street. They just did a bunch of work.
>> Um, or you're changing, you know, yeah,
you have to have catch basins because
the curb holds the water and it just
shoots it down the road to the next
driveway. And so it it it what I
continue to think is a good idea, but
it's not popular is w is paving the
road, the boner road, and then or making
it black, painting it, and then
narrowing the lanes to ridiculously
small width and shifting the whole road
to one side and hashmarking the other
side so that people visually see a place
to walk. But that doesn't protect kids.
There's no curbing there. Um, and so
Boner Road is is is a something we have
not been a you know, we do a little
program each year and we're about to
again on um for safety markings and
we'll we'll try to get it done. Um the
company, it's a long story, but um it's
hard to get that work done, but we we
have a company, they're in Newport,
Vermont, so they like to come and do
something else when when they come from
Newport, Vermont. Um
Nothing really new there.
And I think we support bicycle activity
either recreational or commuting. We've
had some people ride into Lebanon on a
fairly regular basis. We know it's
difficult when when the roads are narrow
and there's shoulders are are narrow. We
all
>> It's uphill both ways.
>> It is uphill both and and we all
about how wide 12A is until you get on a
bicycle and you get just north of the
governed bridge and you're like this is
way better. I'm not going to get killed
right now [laughter] or if I am it's
going to be more intentional. Um and so
it's it's tough.
>> It is. And
Yeah. So
>> we do have you know we are member of the
regional planning commission. We do
participate in their discussions about
transportation in the upper valley.
All right. Population J. That's that's
one of your
>> Well, yeah. I think I think the graphs
are pretty pretty straightforward. You
can just see, you know, our our growth
has been slow, steady, no great changes,
especially in the last couple of
decades. Um
>> although again the demographics are that
we are retirement,
>> Yeah. That we're getting older, right?
>> Yeah. The projections are retire are are
we we'll get that to a next graph.
There's a projection that our population
is actually going to drop.
>> I like that you went back to 1787.
>> Yeah. Well, we're not afraid to cover
some ground there. Well, this would be
where Walter Back often would say we hit
our peak right in here. Things were
things were cut playing field in
Cornish.
What am I on here? Go down a little
further. Population.
>> Yeah. This is this is where the graph
says we're going to be have a small
decrease in you just
>> did I go well a graph?
>> No, keep
>> this one.
>> No,
>> keep
>> you want me to go up or down?
>> I don't know. You
>> Well, I didn't see a graph. I saw this
one which we've looked at a bunch.
>> Okay, now go down just the next one
below.
>> There you go.
>> And go down there. So you're seeing that
their pro their projection is that we
are we'll have a 4% decrease in
population by 2050.
>> So we peaked
>> kind of where we are right now.
>> 75 year olds don't create many kids.
>> So I mean it's just what was his name?
There's no love. I can see a space.
>> Yes, I keep keep scrolling.
>> We're quite rural at 48. I mean,
>> look at Lebanon has 380 people per
square mile.
>> Age distribution. Here's [clears throat]
where it hits the road.
Well, adding that little section of
Granthem to Planefield kind of helps
skewed our numbers just right.
>> Right. Woods that nobody can live in.
>> Right. Keep going down.
>> Yeah. So, um,
>> so green is 2020, 2010, and yellow is
2020.
>> How do you read that graph?
>> How do you on the bottom of the
>> That shows we're living longer.
>> The row, the column rather.
>> Yeah, but why is that Adam? Why is
>> it Would be better if they're next to
each other. Yeah,
>> it would be
>> right.
>> We had so many graph issues that I have
to say that [clears throat] we got fed
up with,
>> but we had
>> Yeah, it's not cumulative. They're
they're separate. They just
>> It let you see the delta easily.
>> Um,
it's not the most helpful. It's kind of
just giving us a big range.
>> Right. I mean obviously we've added a
fair number of 20 to 64 but that's most
of the living is done between 20 and 64
right I mean it's
>> sad to say I am at the moment sad to say
most of them are older and didn't move
out
>> right but the categories like 5 to 19
that's only 14 years and 20 to 64
is a little bit more
>> yeah I don't Although that's really
worth keeping in there. But anyway, we
got it.
>> It's not hurting anything. [laughter]
>> Nice one. Keep it moving.
>> Here we go.
>> School population. We all know about
that. So,
>> not increasing.
>> Not increasing.
>> And Kyle's part of the biggest
>> Oh, of course. It's that's the labor
force. That's the those are just working
people.
>> So, which we're practically out of.
>> I'm working on not being in the working
one anymore.
>> Yeah. So, so you know, you you see the
dramatic [clears throat] increase in
elderly population as a percentage of
total,
>> but it's also we're not that different
than New Hampshire.
>> No, no, no, no. Not that difference in
Sullivan County,
>> It's not unique to playing field that we
are an aging population in the
northeast.
>> Okay, let's keep going.
>> I think those trends are all the country
>> about poverty
income.
We're down to goals and recommendations.
Got one recommendation on population
because I think it's not politically
correct to say we want less people or
more people might those things right
>> let's put up a sign welcome go home
>> when in doubt start a committee
Right. That's exactly it.
>> All right. So, this is the baby here,
Jane, because this is where
>> I mean the concerns. I mean, what do you
do with the what do you do with the
existing zoning law? You throw it out
and keep it, but
But we've had 4% in our in our growth
and housing
>> and Lebanon's had eight.
>> Sullivan County has shrunk.
Now we have no more here and we know the
>> Yeah, we talked about that.
>> I mean, here's the rub. Everybody who
lives here wants to live it the way it
is and says, "Let's have some affordable
housing, too, but not here."
>> Right? I mean that's that's that's the
reality of
>> we just need to learn to camouflage
houses to look like trees.
>> Yeah, they already talked about
>> these things are very similar.
>> But I think you know one of the usually
when you finish a master plan update the
next thing is it tell us to do anything
different with our our zoning ordinance.
Planefield zoning ordinance comes out of
the 1970s. It's been modified a bunch
since the 1970s, but it still, you know,
basically breaks the town into a bunch
of different zones for a bunch of
different reasons,
>> And
the most common zone
is the rural residential zone. Three and
a half acres, 200 ft of road frontage
per lot.
And the highest density zone is the
village residential with 100 ft of road
frontage and
essentially 1acre lots. You can move
that a little bit, but call it 1acre
lot. And the accessory dwelling unit has
effectively doubled the number of house
potentials that you have. Not
everybody's going to take advantage of
it, but everybody can, right? every lot
in playing field now, even the
non-conforming lots now get an ADU. And
so the most common thing that I think
the planning board would hear from the
public, not necessarily the public that
has responded to the survey, but is
there room to to reduce lot sizes, to
make subdivision more easily done, to
make lots, you know, in the rural
residential zone, can you have a 1acre
lot? Can you have a a 100 foot lot? And
and people have very strong feelings
about whether that's a good idea or not,
but the only way to increase the number
of lots is to change the zoning
ordinance,
>> right? But it doesn't necessarily change
the number of new construction houses,
>> I mean, the land cost, we've talked
about this a lot, the land cost, if you
reduce it from three and a half to two,
so you you you'd only buy two acres
instead of three and a half. And
whatever the AC average acreage is now,
cost per acre, it's like 15 15 or
something, right?
>> Per acre.
>> Yan
roads have sold for 190,000 for 4 acres.
>> Yeah, we know.
>> I mean, that was wickedly skewed.
>> I mean, bean road.
>> I'm just saying that it's I don't think
the cost of land is the barrier to new
construction. It's the cost of new
construction.
>> I would agree with you.
>> I mean, being so change and reduce the
minimum lot size,
>> but I'm not sure that's really going to
uh make a significant impact.
>> And I would bet that if you lowered the
lot size from three and a half to two
that the price of the lot wouldn't go
down that much.
>> Exactly.
>> Building lots of building.
>> That's my point. I mean, effectively in
New Hampshire, you have the requirement
that five acres and larger, you don't
have to you don't have to prove septic.
So, a person doing a subdivision gets
really cheap lots because they can miss
a step. They don't have to get approval
from the state if the lot is 5 acres or
larger in current use at 11 acres,
right? A ridiculous number for current
use, 11 acres. um you you can be in
current use uh because you you need 10
to be in the program, but you're going
to eat up one or something like one for
your house. Um those two things
effectively meet our state zone, right?
What how many in all the years we've
been here, how many three and a half
acre lots have we seen created? Almost
none, right?
>> Five and 11. Five and 11 because people
or 15, you know, I mean, depending on
how how but essentially what people
create in playing field five acre lots
and current use lots. That's that's what
we get. And and state law does doesn't
change. I mean, you can tinker with the
ordinance and say and make it just as
expensive to do a 5acre lot as it is to
do a threeacre lot. And some towns have
done that to to at least get people to
consider doing three and a halfacre
lots, you know, the smaller size.
>> Would it make a difference to uh reduce
the road frontage requirements?
Well, I think to Norm's point, I mean,
lots are just there is a there is an
inherent price on a buildable lot right
now. And that price is something over
$100,000. That's just what it is. And if
it's a current use lot, it's worth a
couple hundred or more. Uh because it's
people like room to stretch out and they
like the couple thousand dollars a year
they save on their tax bill. But it is
and I'm you know I don't think at the at
this moment in time people do age out of
their properties and they sell. I mean
people get older and you know right now
there is no one in playing field that
owns large tracks of land that's
motivated to subdivide or they would be
doing that right
the the market has never been stronger.
Uh but the people who own the 100 acres
or 200 acres they like it
>> and and they want to keep it and it's a
private market thing,
>> right? uh and and they choose to to do
it. I mean, yeah. And I mean,
it's the towns and land on on Bonner
Road, right? And and the interesting
thing about the kids is they have often
said to the town, we would want Ira
bought that land for people so that it
would be used as the way the town would
like it used. And we have not heard from
them in a decade. I don't know where
they are anymore. You know, both Iron
and Sally have passed. The heirs own
that property.
walking distance to the Planefield
School, water, sewer, every 24,000
square feet. There's a lot
>> huge difference on the community, right?
I mean, that's that's a lot of people
and a lot of kids and a lot of, you
know, or things, you know, coming to
Planefield that we don't have now. But,
but absolutely the most able piece of
land in our town,
>> And the max just took a couple hundred
bales off it, right? which which which
they've done for you know years now.
Taylor tailor before them.
>> Tastes are changing though too because a
lot of the younger generation Gen Z they
don't want property.
>> They want to have take care of it. They
don't want interest. Yeah.
>> They don't want to pull out a mower.
That's right.
>> No. No. When when I grew up in playing
field, you wanted to be peny good. You
wanted to own a big chunk of land. That
would have been fun. And Erica Smith
will tell you that is not what people
want. People want to hire Tom Williams
for 100 bucks a week to mow their lawn
and go play golf,
>> Or ride their mountain bik
they they don't value they don't see any
value in the acreage.
>> This is one that we've talked about over
the years. We've never done one.
>> Easier to do now than ever because the
maps are digital. Right.
>> Right. I mean, you know, re the regional
planning commission could
>> Yeah, I think that's something that we
might consider doing.
>> One of the gifts we're leaving to the
town of Planefield is right behind M um
Mike Sutherland, that map has 20 years
of that map in it. So that map shows
every lot in Planefield every year,
right? And so every one of the previous
ones is under there. So some point
somebody will put in the next year's map
and they'll be like oh my goodness there
is a tre treasure trove of maps here
because you can see you layers you know
you could flick it like a piece and see
and see the the logs change over time
>> and you could probably do that digitally
and it would be much more entertaining.
Yeah, I think
>> I think I got any questions.
>> Anyone have any questions about this?
>> From what you do, this is the big
chapter, right? Is is land use. So the
power of the planning board is
subdivision.
>> Right. Approved by approved by the town
playing field of the zoning ordinances.
>> All right. We want to go to energy.
>> And we have an awesome energy committee.
>> This the energy committee really wrote
this chapter for us.
>> It has the most
it has a lot of information in it. It
has a lot of recommendations, some of
which have been met already and or are
in the process of being met in terms of
energy efficiency.
Um, but there's a lot of information
about utilities,
how people are what what people are
getting their uh what are they paying
for their electricity, what are their
sources of energy for their homes.
>> it's very deep in in data. I mean
>> it's very deep in data. I don't really I
mean
>> feel like we need to do go through it
all.
>> I mean we are ready for 100 town, right?
We have done the the lowhanging stuff,
>> and that we'll we'll see when we get
down to the recommendations.
>> We think we are in the process. Whether
you think it's a good thing or not
depends on your views. We are about to
get five acres of solar panels on stage
road, right? Um, we keep waiting for it
to start and it hasn't, which has
anything changed with that? Something
popped up on the registry of deeds. That
was like a
>> cross from those trees where they used
to have the trees up there.
>> Yeah. Well, they still have some of the
trees
right to the point essentially is and
and not the whole field. I mean the
shalloways have have leased five acres
for a karge energy which would be a one
megawatt. Um I think it's just under a
one megawatt for for
plantings to
>> yeah interesting electricity demand is
actually dropped. I can't do that.
>> Right. And it turns out this is the
Achilles heel of the country, right? We
want we want E vehicles and E everything
and data centers and we have no grid to
provide all that.
>> Let's keep going. Okay.
>> This is data rich. You're right.
>> Yeah. This is it's a very involved
chapter. There's a lot of work that went
into
>> I know. Give them credit. They really
did. Yeah. put a lot of work into the
job and reference us and we're very
grateful of [laughter] it for us.
>> In the same way, we're we're grateful to
the conservation commission that Natural
Resource Survey.
>> This is probably
Cordwood. You had to move the bottom bar
to the right to see the rest of it
maybe.
No. Yes.
>> You read this.
>> I guess it tells us
the group of well each fuel each fuel
how it's divided amongst as a percentage
right
fuel used
and plane fuel.
fuel on
ask to explain it.
I mean [clears throat]
2D page.
>> I knew that was in Vietnam.
We have tried to get the road agent
interested in an electric truck or an
electric car. [clears throat]
He has acquired an electric chainsaw,
which they like better than they thought
they would, but but
>> it's it's so it's a it's a small step.
I think the the worry about electric
plow trucks, of course, is the same as
you'd expect is that how they perform at
20 below.
Yeah.
>> And and is there a way to make that
better? We have changed out a bunch of
our old diesel trucks to newer improved
diesel which is taken advantage of
program at the state level which pays
for three quarters of the vehicle. And
so we've we've done that three times
How many miles we drive in my household?
That'd be kind of fun.
15,000 more. We'd like to drive.
>> We have to drive. It takes
a lot.
>> Let's keep going. It's true.
This is 72% does not have
one vehicle.
getting people to do better jobs in
their homes is the first step.
>> Uh we've heard that for forever.
That's true.
>> Is there still state support for that?
for that
>> for instation in your house
>> that seemed to have come and gone both
in Vermont and New
>> Hampshire.
>> Yeah. Well, there's weatherization funds
available through the um
southwestern
>> fuel assistance.
It varies from project to project, but
there's there's monies out there to help
low-income residents
improve the weatherization of their
house.
>> Now, the new thing now is solid kind of
stuff. That's the new opening phase of
things.
>> You know, Evan, you know, he puts a lot
>> Wow.
>> in.
>> He was very thorough. Well, it is his
passion.
>> Yeah. So, here we go for
recommendations. There are a lot of
>> Whoops. I'm sick.
>> Yeah. I think
our school of course is was a shining
example of what to heat pumps long
before people knew what a heat pump was.
So when I was on the co-op board, the
gas was heading towards $4 a gallon also
back in the early 2000s.
And we talked about
like a hub in different places. So
instead of everybody driving to the
co-op order and then come down to like
all and be that like a CSA, you know,
come pick up your order there.
>> And that seemed to me would kind of fit
like instead of having a grocery store
in town, we would at least have
>> the grocery store come to the town and
do that. Now that the gas has gone up to
$4 a gallon again, it it's we're a
little more used to it. I like the frog
in the water.
>> But at that point, it was enough to
start to start thinking outside the box.
>> No, it it has amazed me how little of
that has happened this time. Whether
people believe this is short-term or
they're just everything else costs so
much that they figured gas ought to cost
$4 a gallon, too. Um, but you've not
seen like we haven't seen a big influx
of EV cars in the town office in the
last month or two or people generally
complaining. I mean, you know, when the
deli hit $470, that got people pretty ah
they were they were pretty excited about
that. But $4 is the new norm and that's
that's a scary number, right? And and
probably if Stephanie Shell were here,
>> she would say for playing field seniors,
you know, nowhere else in the country do
we depend on fuel oil like we do in the
Northeast, right? Right.
>> Get somebody from out of town. the the
New Hampshire broadband guys were from
Georgia and they're like,
>> "Yeah,
>> what are those pipes on your house?
What's that?" And I'm like, "Oh, well
that's where the guy brings me fuel oil
to keep me warm in the winter."
>> What the hell is that? I mean, so fuel
oil is unknown, right? And we have we
have residents that are facing $4 a
gallon, maybe $450
>> a gallon this winter. I mean, it's good
that's going to hurt, right? when it
when it gets to be cold and energy, you
know, people will react. They should,
you know, they'll use less. They'll look
at other sources. They'll make their
houses tighter, but boy is that going to
hurt.
And I don't think propane's a lot
better, less BTUs,
uh, but the cost is still very high.
And apparently nowhere else but in the
Northeast, do you pay what we pay for
electricity,
>> Right. We are very expensive for
electricity.
>> So even
>> and for gas because they'll be gas
because we don't have the volume that we
do
natural.
>> On the other hand, whole blocks don't
blow up every now and then which is
which is nice.
>> Okay, that's true.
>> Which is which is nice. But
>> yes,
>> we still have people on Zoom. We may
have we we have I'm going to stop the
share.
>> That number has reduced. Let's see.
>> Oh, we got a few. [laughter]
>> Got a few.
>> It's all right. There's no troopers.
>> Let's Let's ask if we've got any
comments or things or concerns that from
the the true
the true participants here that have
stuck with us.
Mighty quiet group.
>> I mean, I was singing the duck.
[laughter] We didn't learn anything
particularly dramatic about playing
fields and playing fields of wants other
than the aging and population trends.
>> Right. Yeah,
>> it's it is
>> I actually do have a question and that
is that if I have any feedback um like
I've got some spelling corrections um
and some things that I think should be
added minor things. Um do I just mail
them to you? Um
>> one of the things Yeah. One of the
things that I did want to bring up
though was that um
from a the historic resources
standpoint, um when we apply for grants
for the Planefield Town Hall and the
stage set, um we have to send the
section on historic resources and
sometimes facilities
um to get the grant. And so there's a
few things that I would like to suggest
in there having to do with heritage
tourism
>> um in the historic resources.
>> I think it's great. I think it would be
great if it makes it so that they can
more easily get grant money to maintain
the historic sites.
>> I think it makes a world of sense. And
the other thing was we mentioned the um
national list of historic the register
but there's also a state list of
historic places as well that people can
apply for. So I thought that should be
mentioned.
>> so
>> go ahead.
>> Is it a web link?
Um, there are web links and that was one
of the questions I had in one of the
sections. You had a reference to I think
it was a 1987
master plan and I wondered if there was
a link to that.
Um, and that was in the historic
resources I think.
Um, but there were a couple of places
where there were misspellings. parish's
name was spelled three different or four
different ways
>> and I just you know things like that
that just kind of stuck out at me. Um
and then in the facilities section
um one of the other things that we've
seen an increase um besides events is
rentals.
Um we have a wedding there this weekend.
We've this is our either our second or
our third wedding this year. Um, and one
other thing came up under facilities.
You had in there
um that the uh facilities manager was
part-time and then full-time, but that
was a contracted position at part-time.
I don't think it was
u a town employee. And I wondered if
that should be
added, the fact that it was a contracted
part-time position
>> previously. Yeah. So,
>> yeah. And where should I email these
comments to?
>> You can send them to me and I'll send
them to Jane and the rest of the board
members.
>> Thank you, Beth.
>> Thank you,
>> Anybody else?
>> Thank you, Margaret. [laughter]
>> All right. So, we'll meet
A couple quick things if we can get off
master plan. Just we're not we're not
adopting tonight. We'll we'll make some
changes
>> and so we'll get Bev's comments and
anybody else's that comes in in the next
few days. Bring it to the board at the
September meeting.
>> The regional planning commission has the
new law books out. you know the
condensed law book that
>> and there are there's an option now you
can have a book only
an ebook only or a print in an ebook and
so the book only is $12 the ebook is $12
and if you want both it's $18 and town
pays for it of course I'm not suggesting
otherwise the question is I mean the
zoning board for instance wanted three
digitals in two paper. And so the
question is, do you really want it so
you can load it on your iPad and bring
it and keep it close to or do you want
the book to put in the drawer right next
to the Bible? And so it's so book.
>> Well, I want I want digital because I
can include it with the other our other
documents and we can all of a sudden
search and match and see if we're
>> I think we need both. Yeah. I don't I'm
not saying no digital. I'm just saying
>> but but you would have a book. I mean,
I'm talking about individuals. You'd
like a book. You'd like digital.
>> Yeah. And the others are ducking their
hands. They don't want either one. I I
like to have I would prefer a book.
>> Okay. So, this is book
and this is digital.
Okay.
What? I'm not familiar with this
document. It's a It's a book about I'll
shoot I can
>> Yeah, we'll study the other one on from
19
earlier 20s
into one.
>> It's a white cover and like
>> I don't know if it's white anyway.
>> That's the size you're talking about.
of about that size that has all the land
use
>> and they update it every couple of years
or as as required by changes in the
statute.
>> These are just all the RSAs.
>> Yeah, it's that are specific to planning
zoning
and you might get some of the basic
selectman ones, you know, officers of
the town, but there's nothing in it
about motor vehicle registrations or or
any of those things. It's just land use.
>> What do you think?
>> I think I'm going all digital.
>> I knew that was going to be
>> Yeah, I think I guess I guess I'm
digital, too. Okay,
>> got it. Um, and do you want to approve
minutes? You want to do that next time?
>> Yeah, let's do it.
>> There's there's a It's little tiny ones.
I mean, it's just basically
>> I didn't see
>> it's just basically the worked on master
plan and went home.
Oddly enough, it'll be the same thing
tonight. Worked on master plan went
home.
>> Was just two hours away from
>> I've got a couple of quick things done
that's
related.
>> Yeah, we'll show it to you.
looks okay in the only thing that I
can't see is in line 30 um I think you
need a um slash between and or
>> Yeah, I can add a slash. I got to get
rid of the draft anyway. Okay, good.
Oh, and I need your signature, J.
>> I make a motion that approved as
amended. Is there a second?
>> Don't you don't get a permanent mistake
for
>> talk about that. Okay.
>> Everyone. [laughter]
>> Okay. Let's talk about
>> well talking about
>> so I got I think three things maybe
hopefully things um one so the first
thing is the Donnie Goodwin's
subdivision was potentially forthcoming
that's he contacted me about wanting to
turn that are you all familiar with
which property he bought
>> on 120
>> so he called me up
>> 120 no
line the old sawmill
>> Oh okay
>> oh yes good I was wondering who was
doing that Yeah. So, he called me up cuz
I guess you sent them my way presumably.
>> Well, I went Well, there's two levels.
>> He pulled an intent to cut the log and
he made it an access onto 120, which he
usually would do with the state.
>> And then two, he's going to divide the
house side into two lots using the same
curb cut. And I told him, you got to do
that, you need to talk check with the
state because it's going it's a change
of use. There are two residents where it
used to serve one. So that's how he he
didn't go to you from us because of the
intent to cut, but he went to you
because of the potential subdivision
that'll come in for September.
>> He called me saying he wasn't changing
anything. He wasn't digging anything. It
was all just paperwork to go single
family to shared driveway. And then I
see he's got now two very large log
landings
filled in the rightway with brush stone.
And you know, so he doesn't have any
approval for any of that.
>> Ah, see, and I'm and I'm shocked that he
doesn't he's logged on state roads
before.
>> Um, so his subdivision
involves the existing driveway, but he's
doing the first cuz he learned from his
uncle, right? The first thing he's doing
is taking the wood off. And so he has I
think people thought it was the new
tower going up. You know, it was the
access to the new tower, which you
haven't even talked about yet. haven't
we'll do a site plan in eventually. So
you'll catch up with him. I mean I
assume somebody's in the state catches
up with him on his access cuz the thing
he's
he took Derby Lane in Lebanon and turned
it into a gravel road. They brought so
much mud down the hill. It was crazy. I
can't believe Lebanon didn't say you got
to put some rock in there. You got to do
something. But you know he basically
bulldozed on to 120 is cutting lumber.
So Ross' crew will catch up with him for
that. But his house is he says those are
temporary to be grasped. I think on the
other side of the road he's leaving the
bridge. He bought a bridge. You know the
old sawmill where they used to be like
>> So he has to go over great it's only 9
acres on that side of the road.
>> But he has to go over Great Brook to
pull the timber off.
>> Well he's not doing an actual driveway
there. If he's saying, "Oh no, we're
going to grass it over." Then why did he
put those two obviously placed boulders
on the edges of where that open?
>> I'm just telling you what he's what he's
told us.
>> I'm just saying.
>> But we'll want those moved too because
those are in the later those are in the
clear zone. They're hazards.
>> Yeah. But the the
sawmill side, I have not seen this
thing. But he has bought a bridge
30 40 grand that he's going to flung
down over Great Brook to be able to get
his lumber off and then he has indicated
to the town office he's going to leave
the bridge for the residential service
for the house that will be on that side.
So the 9 acre lot, if you're going up,
if Lebanon's a TV, the 9 acre lot with
the old sawmill doesn't need a
subdivision. It's a separate lot. He
just thinks the house site is on the
other side of Great Brook. So he's going
to leave this bridge. I don't know what
this bridge is, but that's what he says.
The house side when he gets done
logging, if you believe him, that access
goes away. and the the two lots that
he's proposing, one will have the
existing house, one will have 11 or 12
acres of undeveloped land will use the
same driveway as the house. I don't
quite understand that because the
driveway for the house kind of goes to a
garage and goes to their house. How
how's it getting up onto the 11 acres?
But but we haven't seen any plans from
Donnie. You know, he he has a little map
that he thought would be good enough.
And I said, "That's not good enough. you
you've got to make an application for
subdivision. And so he's off doing that
now. But I I expected that he had gone
to the state because he's only done this
a thousand times that he'd gone to the
state to get permission for his log
access. But I did not ever see a permit
come in from the state that said, you
know, temporary access for logging.
Here's the requirements.
>> I guess can they're going to be done
logging before we even get them on the
phone to catch up about it. But the
house in theory is the the two lots on
the house side is to use the existing
curb. Would that need a a permit from
the state?
>> Which one? Where the where the sauna
was?
>> No. Where the house where where the
house is is, you know, if if I if I have
an existing driveway and I add another
lot in the house. Yes. Do I I need to
modify my permit? Okay.
>> It's a it's a change of use. That was
permanent as a single family restaurant.
>> Right. That's what I told him. He didn't
like it. And I said, "Well, call because
that's what I do with people on the
stage."
So, so he But Donnie plays dumb on these
things, right?
>> Yes, he does. Oh my god.
>> And he's not dumb.
>> He's not.
>> He He knows exactly what
>> exactly what he's doing.
>> What's the second thing?
>> So, the other one is um the new property
owners of 00 Freeman Road,
>> the little lot at the bottom
>> with the quarter acre lot
>> right there by channel right there at
the bottom.
>> Yep. So, they contacted me this summer
saying that they needed a driveway
permit on Stage Road. Um, 12A,
>> excuse me. 12A. Yeah, sorry. Uh, 12A.
>> And I told him, I said, "Here's our
website. Fill an application and we'll
start the process." And I said,
"However, like, have you have you
considered putting your driveway on
Freeman Road where there's no ravine, no
guardrail, no 50 mph curve? You know,
there's there's parts of Freeman Road
that have no ditch that they could just
go right in on the old discontinued 12A,
>> She said that the town told her it her
driveway has to be 100 feet away from
12A and that she doesn't have 100 feet
of frontage. So that she said that that
was a dead end. And I said, well, we've
got the same rules for the state. You
can't be 200 feet from Freeman Road.
Well, their frontage isn't even 200
feet. So, I've got a meeting, a work
meeting or DOT meeting tomorrow to
discuss this, but I also wanted to raise
it up here that has she been talking to
any like the road agent or
>> No, she they talked they called us in
the winter and you know it is Freeman
Road as you know has some problems with
a bus there's a bus a collective I mean
apparently kids don't go get picked up
at their houses anymore they get picked
up at locations and so there is one of
those which which is already a
nightmare. And so, you know, I mean,
being a good municipal official, I said,
"Go see the state. You can't get right
there on Freeman Road. There's you're
going to be reckoning the kids and
parents parking their cars for the bus
stop." And so, I think the reality is
the more proper place for the driveway
is going to be Freeman Road. And it
might eliminate the bus stop that nobody
likes um except for the school. Um and
but I've not heard a word for her in 6
months.
>> Okay. Um, it's a horrible lot, but they
paid $24,000 for it. Uh,
>> and they're going to build on it.
>> I don't know.
>> They want a driveway.
>> I mean, they they bought it, right? They
bought it from the Reed, the heirs of
Dick Reed. Yeah. And some He won in a
poker game or something. I don't have
any idea how he got that piece piece of
land. It's an orphan.
>> It's It's Yeah, it's leftover when they
relocated 12A.
>> It usually when there's little pieces
like that, they just get absorbed into
the rightway because it's recognized.
There's no use of it. In fact, I think
there's a little funny triangle if you
look on the tax map that was it's it's
12A rightway because it was a little
sliver of something. Why this one didn't
also get included in that I don't I
don't know. But I guess quarter acre is
a nothing to sneeze at. But I don't know
what if it's developable
>> and it's in the it's in the VR zone,
right? We extended the VR zone all the
way to town. I mean, the reality, Ross,
is that if they're serious and you're
just kind of smoking them out and seeing
if they're serious or not, the driveway
belongs on Freeman Road, not on 12. You
get killed on that corner on 12A.
>> Well, that's what I don't get is she
keeps coming to me about wanting a state
12A driveway. But to break the guard
rail, like we're not going to change the
guardrail for them. And to break the
guard rail, you'd have to put those
crash attenuators on it. Each one of
those, it's probably more now, but last
time I did it, each one of those is
$10,000.
>> Holy When when when Jeff Alre
wanted us to put them on the bridges for
2500 a piece, we said no. Holy Uh,
so yes, I think I mean
if you guys deny her or make it so
impossible she can't do it, then she'll
come back to the town and we'll I mean
the reality is you're faced with this
lot that has frontage on two rights of
way, two public roads. Whether you like
it or not, you recognize that is a lot.
You got to give her access somewhere.
Right.
>> Right. She's got to have and the safer
access is Freeman Road. And maybe it
solves the school bus problem because if
people, you know, right now we the
problem with the school is unbeknownst
to us why the school department puts the
bus stop on that corner on 12A. The bus
stops right there. So cars coming north
going 50 miles an hour, all of a sudden
come around the corner and they're like,
"Holy there's a bus stop." The
parents all line up on Freeman Road,
right? So they park and they wait or
they drop the kid off. They hold the kid
till the bus comes, whatever they do.
And then on a icy morning, people come
down Freeman Road and they're like,
"Holy Christ, I'm gonna run into a pile
of cars because they're all kids.
>> They're all parked off to the side of
the road."
>> We have offered to the school to make
the turnaround on Carval Lane. Just go
down River Road back into Carval Lane.
Pick all you kids up you want there and
there's no one around. 12 is a show
in the morning. you don't need. So I
don't but the school has repeatedly said
no. That's where the bus stop needs to
be. But maybe the driveway there will
put an end to it. I think the other
problem with the driveway is she said
something about um util utilities. I
think the power there's a telephone pole
right there and I think it's got guide
cables all coming off of it and that's
probably right smack in the middle
>> middle where she needs to be.
>> Yeah. And the reality is she got a 25
$24,000 lot in town playfield for a
reason
>> and she's going to have to spend some
money and you know move the utilities
and but I had literally like she called
three times that week and then never
heard from her again and and so I was
kind of hoping that divorce had settled
in or they had moved or sold or or or
whatever because I mean it should have
been I thought Walker would buy it just
to fatten up his land a little or just
the only but you know it's 24 grand.
>> I almost bought it just so we wouldn't
be here talking about this. [laughter]
>> Do you have any idea how Dick ever came?
Was there reed property there?
>> Yeah, I've got all the the history
I don't know. I think so, but I don't
but I don't know.
>> I mean, we didn't really owe that. I
mean, it was just it's just a little the
town didn't tax it for I mean, it isn't
worth very much, but all of a sudden in
this housing market and other people, to
your point, say a quarter acre,
fill it up and it's a nice little house
spot. What's it going to hurt? You know,
I mean, there's other houses right in
the neighborhood, but they should come
on to Freeman Road. I mean, that's where
it should come. You can't I mean, at
least there they have a chance to get on
to 12A in the same way everybody else
does as opposed to, you know, what are
you going to do? Look, see who's coming
down. Freeman 12A back down 12A. I mean,
it's it's it's difficult.
>> at best.
>> And you have one more.
>> I have one one more, I think. Um,
no, I think that's it.
>> And you do have a cell tower coming on.
Well, maybe not, but it got approved at
the zonal board level for Green's
property on Stage Coach Road in East
Planefield, 120 ft.
And the neighbors, and I don't know what
the answer is. I think I know the
answer, but the neighbors are going to
and complain that the road is
discontinued past the maintained
portion. And so Don K, who hates Phil
Green, hates him because they did
business together. Obviously didn't go
well. I remember the elk business, Moon
Ridge Elk or whatever. And so they were
they were marketing, you know, they were
killing elk and and processing them and
selling the meat, but they had elk and
it didn't go good. Um, Don K does not
want Phil Green to have this cell tower
no matter what. And he says, "I own half
the road. You can't use my half." But
the reality is, I think the law is going
to say if their property depends on that
that access, the owners of that property
and the assigns of that property get to
use it. I can't use it. It's not a
public road, but if you need it to
access your property, you you get to use
it.
And so I think Don K would like to to
bluff them, but you know, this guy's got
a pretty good attorney, the the tower
company there. So access will be a big
issue and whether or not it should have
pine needles on it or brush, you know,
will be the will be the the big issues
>> And the state the federal law has gotten
a lot tougher since Beauty Hill. Like
essentially the federal law is you have
no local zoning ordinance if there's a
coverage gap. whatever you're I mean
there you are not allowed to have a
towel in the RC2 zone. This tower is in
the RC2 zone. Um and they said it
doesn't matter. There is a gap in
coverage in federal law. And the the
ZBA's got the heavy hitter. I mean Matt
Decker wrote a ninepage decision that
would have cost the town of Playingfield
five grand to have Barry right. And he
did it because he's a member of our
zoning board. He to charge corners five
because he's their municipal attorney,
but he happens to sit on our board. And
he and Barry both agreed we we have no
case. We will lose. Um so the only thing
is what can you do to mitigate the the
the tower? And so the ZBA dropped it 10
ft to 120. Um but it's it sits and we
had you know Matt Morazzo's house the
picture window it looks like they built
it like high court so they could see the
top of the tower.
and [laughter] and and the and the
Morazzos are like, "Bring it on. We we
we're we're using boosters now. We want
the cell signal. We don't give a
about that tower. It's way way in the
distance. We don't care." So, I mean,
there's a a place where somebody, you
know,
>> but it's a neighborhood. I mean, this
has been one of those wine and cheese
and cracker events in the neighborhood.
They've been able to rally, protest,
carry on. But the ones that have have
been most vocal aren't even affected
visually by the tower because they're
too close. Right? If you live right next
to it, you can't see it. It's it's
crania neck. But it is very visible for
Methodistale. Uh the folks on Methodist,
the folks at Cington Turnpike when they
did the balloon test, and we won't have
to do that again. They did a very
detailed balloon test. The documents are
on the town um ZBA page, but they're,
you know, they put the tower where the
balloon was and and and did a very
credible job. And so you But
>> we we're waiting for them because I'm
sure they'll wait 30 days to make sure
there's no appeal to the CBA from the
butter and then they'll decide whether
it's really a tower they want to build
or not. and they spent a bunch of money,
you know, literally Phil Green responded
to a postcard in his in his mail. You
know, they sent postcards out to people
in that area and he and he responded and
said, "Yeah, I take one of them." And so
that's how it happened. You know, had he
not seen it and thrown it out,
he wouldn't have done it. But um and
apparently there is I mean, I don't
drive that way talking on a cell phone,
but apparently there is a coverage gap
right there. You you call
>> clearly nothing on 12
>> calls drop right there.
>> What's happening with Leoo Tower? I
think you told us once,
>> right? Surprisingly nothing good
happened when I mean there is slightly
better Verizon service. There is a tower
work. I mean no site plan, no anything
because it's 160 foot tower getting a a
box on the top, but it's there and and
working and nearest I can tell nobody
thinks their cell phone is better than
it used to be. But it's up and running.
>> So, it has, you know, I mean, I don't
know if any of you have Verizon service.
Uh, but
>> I do.
>> I mean, I've got I've got I think
>> in between
>> I think I use Verizon and we don't have
a booster anymore. I have four bars.
>> So, this would help with Brook Road
>> presumably. Presumably. [clears throat]
>> Which one?
>> The Verizon Loo Tower.
>> Yeah, Brook Road and probably over
toward 91. But there must be all kinds
of service over there.
>> Yeah, 91's pretty reliable. Um there was
a cheap one to put in because American
Tower had had resisted requests to put I
mean it's a huge government structure
right it stands the the the devices that
make it a cell tower don't compare it's
so big you know that thing is huge
flashing light people hate it I mean
Jesus talk grant Peter Martin's been
talking about chopping it down for 30
years because he looks at it his he did
build his house so he could in his case
he blanks
It really brings it on nicely. Um, this
one has no lights on at at 120. It's not
required to have any lighting.
>> I think this one has to blink because
it's much closer to the Lebanon airport.
>> it's And that one's 160. That one's
actually a pretty tall tower.
>> But that it was news to us. It was not
news to Matt Decker, but it was news to
the ZBA that federal law just crushed
them. like it just simply says your
zoning ordinance doesn't exist.
And so
we, you know, we had one zoning board
member that said then let's just fight.
I'll vote no. And if everybody else
votes nos with me, they'll have take us
to court. But that was not the will of
the board.
All right. So, we're going to party. Are
you going to be able to come on
Thursday?
>> Oh, yeah. I did an RSVP. Yes. But my
family's out of town, so it'll just be
okay.
>> But you'll drink margaritas.
>> I'll drink for me and the kids.
>> Ter, terrible, terrible, terrible
accident by your place.
>> Oh,
>> the beauty hill thing. That was that was
bad. That was a really tough night.
>> The guy passed away.
>> Yeah, I saw I just saw the state
>> passed away.
>> The guy that was hit by the kid.
>> Oh man.
>> Wrong place, wrong time.
>> It was
>> Yeah, I heard. Yeah. you know, couldn't
>> I didn't I should have I didn't hear
siren.