Litchfield School Facilities Improvement Committee - 07/09/2026

Speakers are labeled SPEAKER_N. This transcript is machine-generated.

Recording

Committee for the Lichfield School
District will begin tonight's meeting
with the pledge of allegiance
to [snorts] the flag of the United
States of America and to the republic
for which it stands, one nation under
God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all.
>> Sounds like our batteries are running
down.
[sighs]
So, we did not meet last month due to
just too many other things going on. Um,
to kind of bring everybody else up to
speed, there really hasn't been much. I
know Haramman's kind of just moving
forward with stuff. So, Mr. Okonnell
will give an update later on tonight.
And otherwise, yeah, just has everybody
had a chance to review the meeting
minutes for April 9th and May 14th?
I just want to open it. Make sure there
isn't any comments.
I don't see any comments.
[snorts]
Excellent.
Tools.
Excellent.
Everybody prepared to vote on the
meeting minutes?
>> I make a motion we approve both of them.
I will second said motion.
>> Although I was going to say additional
discussion.
>> I always forget that part.
>> Was everyone who's voting there for
both?
>> I was not.
>> I don't know. I'm saying a chance.
>> All right. So absent on April 9th was
Joeitis. Rich Lasales was the only um
voting member that was absent.
So, I would say we are we'll go with
April 9th. Uh, can you amend your motion
to do these one at a time?
>> Sure. I amend my motion to do one at a
time. Start with the nth.
>> All right. I will second that motion to
vote on the meeting minutes for April
9th. Uh, additional discussion.
>> Do we have a quorum?
>> Yes, we do.
>> Okay.
>> I All those in favor?
>> Okay. I I will abain.
>> Abstain. Abstain. Well, you're not a
voting member.
>> Oh, that's right. We're both here that
>> and Mr. Lalis abstains.
>> I was I was Go on.
>> Yep.
All right. Uh, going forward to the May
14th meeting minutes. Mr. Lassard was
not here, Mr. Lales was not here and
Marilyn was not here, but we
>> I read them and I like them.
>> I was going to say, yeah,
>> you don't [snorts] have to be here to
approve them.
>> That is very uh Yes, you do. Cuz you
when you would say, well, sorry. Yes, we
can approve. You guys will just have to
abstain.
>> Can someone approve if they actually
watched it on TV?
>> Yeah.
>> And just approving that the minutes are
what the minutes are like. But I don't
have any problems with the minutes. I
don't feel like I need to abstain from
that.
>> But you can't you can't sort of I mean
you're kind of saying they're valid and
you can't do that if you weren't there.
>> Yeah. Because at the school board I'm
not allow like I have to abstain if I
even if I read the minutes and watch the
video. I still have to abstain from
approving the minutes.
>> All right.
>> So that gives us two voting members to
approve those minutes.
But we have three abstains. How does
that work? I mean, you have enough to
vote on a majority to approve it.
>> Okay. All right.
>> I vote to approve.
>> Additional discussion. I feel like we
just have it. [laughter]
>> Uh, all those in favor? I. All those
opposed. All those abstain.
Excellent. Those meetings are also
approved.
>> [snorts]
>> How does everybody like the new format
of they're just in the folder, you guys
go to the folder, make comments? I
looked at the permissions. It looks like
who needs to be an editor is an editor
and everyone else is either a commenter
or viewer. So, does that seem to be
working better for everybody?
>> Except that I accidentally commented by
mistake. It worked very nicely and I was
able to do it when it's fresh in my
mind.
>> Perfect.
Excellent. All right. Moving right
along.
Uh gonna open. We're gonna begin our
community input for tonight's meeting. I
do not see a community members here this
evening. So unless would you
>> No specific input for those I didn't
meet last time. My name is Marley
Taylor. I'm trying the group out to see
if I want to be a community
representative and officially join in in
the group. Um, so I can't vote.
>> Welcome to the party.
>> I can't vote. I can't do anything like
that.
>> What's your name again?
>> Mara.
>> Um, so I want to listen. Um, I ask
questions. I'm trying to learn.
>> Good for you.
>> Yes. Thank you.
>> Absolutely.
>> Excellent. With that, I will close
community input and I will go
immediately over to old business.
And I guess we'll start with the GMS
project or do you just want to start
with end of year?
>> I mean, we can just go in order. It's
>> okay. Yeah. So, we'll start with a GMS
project update from Mr. Okonnell.
>> Yeah. Uh, we met with Herman a couple
weeks ago, I think. Uh, it was lightly
attended, but it's okay. They provided
uh an update. Um, just included, you
know, further plans of the work that
they're doing. they're getting into like
the layered uh plans, you know, your
electrical plans, your plumbing plans,
your everything else kind of associated
with it. Um, so making progress in all
that.
>> Excellent.
>> Um, Harvey obviously was there and part
of the process because they're pricing
stuff out as things go along and we're
meeting again with them on the 21st
remotely 4:30. Um, the invite is out
there. If you need it again, if you're
on that group, just let me know. When
I'm sorry,
>> the 21st 430 July.
>> Yeah. Remote.
>> Is it the same invite for every meeting?
>> Because I always ask Julie to get
another invite. I don't know if I have
to.
>> I don't think you have to. I mean, we
can resend it always. Like I can res
>> I kind of like that, frankly. [laughter]
>> Let's do that.
>> They resend it.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, yeah. Me, too.
>> Yeah. [laughter]
>> Um, just to put it I'll just say
reminder, I will do it right now and I
will try to remember to do it closer to
the 21st as well while I sit here.
>> Uh that's at 4:30
and then uh they'll give us an update.
We're still [snorts] targeting to have
kind of the finished thing uh for
vetting throughout the month of
September and then the final project
with price for October turn in the
budget.
Um, we've also been meeting with uh
I don't know what his actual title is. I
call him a videographer. Um, but that's
we may not end up doing videos with him,
but someone to help us with some of the
public relations stuff. Um, he's put a
proposal together. We haven't committed
to any of that yet, but just uh um to
help us with kind of the roll out of
everything to make sure we're doing
goodformational stuff related to it.
We'll probably Well, we might shouldn't
say probably. I don't know yet. Um do
some videos related to different aspects
of the project just to inform, you know,
the community what's going on and stuff
like that. So, we've been we had a good
meeting this week, me and Dan, uh with
this guy. His name is Eric. He's done a
bunch of projects throughout New
England. This type of work, um some
pass, some don't. you know, his work is
good, but you know, um, but we want to
make sure we continue to inform the
community, especially when we start
pushing it like in six month window, you
know, ahead of March and stuff like
that. Y
>> I had the chance to watch his Hollis
video, I believe.
>> Yeah.
>> I I love videos. I love getting out to
the community. I don't think we need to
do something similar to what he did for
Hollis for Lichfield. I think you guys
have done that already.
>> Yeah, he has lots of different like
things. So, that Holl video is the one
that we saw because it's a New Hampshire
video. He's worked with, you know, um
bunch of school districts in Maine too
that are completely different. They're
like shorter and like quicker. If we're
talking about the same one, the LA one's
pretty long.
>> Yeah. And they had the school board in
>> Yeah. And it was a lengthier thing and
um probably more costly.
>> It is. Yeah. So,
>> which is why when I moved here, I said
if I wanted to pay Hollis taxes, I would
have moved to Hollis. So, I strongly
suggest we don't go that way.
>> Well, he has different different like
options, right? like he's laid out a
different bunch of different things for
us. We have not committed to anything.
We would like to know all the
information first and kind of have a
little bit of an alocart menu of what if
anything we love to do with him. But um
that's just on our mind making sure we
do goodformational stuff around the
project as we kind of once we have the
price finalized we're getting that
information out to everybody and uh so
we're working on that aspect of it too.
>> Excellent.
>> That's where we're at.
Excellent. Any other questions for now?
>> Okay.
>> Is there a way to Did he just Does he
have a link where we could go and see
some of his shorter videos or
>> uh I can ask him for some samples? I
just have an email for him right now. I
mean, I think you can um I'll see if I
can get the school districts in Maine
because those are the ones you can find
the hall stuff. Like I said, that I
don't remember the name districts off
the top of my head,
>> but I'll ask him for those. And then um
>> yeah, just a handful of links would be
great.
>> Yeah,
>> if he doesn't mind sharing.
>> I don't think so. I think it's all
public stuff because it's for the
different projects and everything like
that.
>> Okay. So, this next topic this is
>> I don't know what this topic is.
[laughter]
>> This is my topic. Okay.
>> Um,
so I have been pondering in the
background of how I would take a project
like this and if it got denied in my
company, how do I reapproach this and
try to pass?
>> This is the alternate strategy one.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Just want to
So the numbers are from publicly
available numbers. They are not they are
estimates. They are numbers that came
from the community forum number three.
This is me postulating with my ROMs and
everything. This has not been presented
to anybody. This is the first time. It's
also not as polished as I would like it
to be. I haven't had a chance to really
polish it up and make it exact level
ready. So, just keep all of that in an
open mind.
>> Half baked is what you're saying. And
and I'm gonna say that
>> the the the center is still squishy, but
the outside is done. [laughter]
>> It's beautifully done and well thought
out, but do we want to publicly give
them another option on a meeting?
>> Well, I think they need because you're
looking at what 35 million.
>> So, so
I guess just
>> be a tough sell.
>> So, I will go through this.
>> The option
>> the end game and the option is not
changing. I have not changed that. I am
proposing an alternate strategy to reach
that end game.
>> Right?
>> So this would be I need to go build a
new factory. They said no right away.
Hey, what if you know I built the
structure and the slab so I can do
storage and that's half the cost and I
can do other stuff. But the endgame in
the option is still the same that we're
trying to achieve.
>> More of a pay as you go kind of option.
I I can run through that, but
essentially this is how I would approach
this with my exec leadership of if I had
to get something like this done and it
was told no at the very beginning.
>> Okay.
>> All right. Is everybody on board to go
through this?
>> I'm intrigued. My interest is peaked.
>> Okay.
>> So, we're assuming no does not mean no.
>> I am assuming.
[snorts]
See, it depends. Depends [clears throat]
on what the no is because the warrant
articles for the bond, right?
>> So, not that the project is necessarily
a no. It's to receive the tax impact.
>> How would you fund it if the answer is
no?
>> Is this a no fund no cost option? In
which case, why aren't we just doing
this?
>> Well, I I think you're you're phrasing a
little bit off in that, right? Like
you're not assuming that this is a no.
This is how you were going to approach
getting this project passed at this
point, right? like we're still pursuing
the remodeling project,
>> right?
>> And it's still the same.
>> Hasn't even been voted on yet,
>> right?
>> And this is how you're proposing that we
present it to the voters to vote on
>> to make it
>> so that we can accomplish. Yes. To
accomplish the final goal with a more
what I perceive as a more palatable
um option to the taxpayers.
>> So there's been no vote yet. Zero votes.
>> Right now, the original one is full vote
all cost. You're And your alternate
strategy is sli slice and dice it into
smaller pieces to make it more
palatable.
>> Why don't we let him go through it and
we can
>> and then we can find out.
>> I just
think you always know and there's no
money for it.
>> I think at this point you can talk about
what you want to but I think you are
money the waters
>> and I think this into the game.
>> Well, but I I guess
>> present
>> let's talk through it
>> and thank you for coming with ideas for
us to talk about. So
yeah, I'm just going to go through it.
yada yada yada. So this is the final
design that we are currently pursuing.
We are currently asking Haramman and
Harvey to get us guaranteed maximum
prices on. This is option 1B from
community forum number three.
So
this is not changing. This is still the
end result of what we are trying to
achieve here in Lichfield for Griffin
Memorial School.
>> So, can you remind me what the lines are
on the top? Is that like a canopy or is
that like sidewalk on the outside edge
of first floor
>> up here?
>> Yeah. So, I see the classrooms line up.
What are my lines?
>> First floor, second floor of this
building,
>> right? But so the horizontal lines,
>> it's where the portables currently are.
>> Oh, okay. Gotcha.
>> Okay, that that makes more sense.
because I was like, is there a covered
walkway there?
>> It's really hard to read, but there's a
legend kind of in the middle there that
says what the patterns mean.
>> Gotcha. I think that
>> Sorry.
Okay. So, just wanted to be clear. I am
not changing the final design objective.
>> Okay.
>> Current strategy
is, as you mentioned, full boore.
>> Mhm.
>> $35 million bond. We're going to get
that number. This is the number that was
presented at community forum number
three. So I did it is it was a ROM
estimate at that time. It is still a ROM
estimate. Not trying to change that
number.
Expected start year of construction
would be 2028.
I'm estimating based upon what I have
run on something on this level is about
a 24-month construction time. Could be
longer, shorter depending on Harvey's
schedule. That's just my estimation
going off of the one of the schoolboard
meetings where we ran bond examples.
That's what this information is is from
that same school board meeting. So that
is again already presented publicly. I
am not coming up with anything new. So
that way people can't yell at me later.
Um
this bond example is off of a $20
million bond. I took the one for a
29-year level principal example. There's
other examples in there for shorter and
level debt.
But if I multiply that out estimated,
again, this is me playing with numbers
of if I was just to scale it of a decent
tax impact that you would see and it's
averaged in the or it's a range just
because the bond example ranges for the
estimated annual tax impact.
>> I'm conf that's a huge range. So I'm
kind and if my value is 600,000 I guess.
Yeah. So what is the low end based on?
high end based on
>> the low end is based on the lowest
number in your estimated tax impact
which was I did 6 up to 1.34. So the
range is purely out of the tax impact
hits differently depending upon the bond
note and the level principles at least
that's the way that I am interpreting
this. So that way your actual tax impact
would range on a on an annual cycle. It
shouldn't. It should be the same every
year.
>> I I don't know how it's done. It's how I
read this document.
>> It all depends.
>> I want I don't want to interrupt like
every part of
>> No, [snorts] I understand. But you're a
thousand difference.
>> I know. So,
>> please interrupt. Poke holes.
>> It's not poking holes, but like I want
to hear your strategy. I want to be
careful here because I want to hear your
the strategy because I'm curious and I I
understand what you're doing by putting
a bond here, but like there are lots of
different types of bonds we can apply,
right? Like this particular example that
you did here does do that fluctuation.
If I was [snorts] advising, which I will
probably do at some point in my role,
>> I wouldn't advise the board away from
this type this community from this type
of correct
>> right. So it's a more fixated number
that is level in the sense of what
you're paying year after year because I
think I from I was not here but I have
been hired so I followed in the
background the process the last time
this got voted and when the bond gets
too confusing and the year stuff changes
too frequently it makes people it seemed
to have made this community really
nervous. I think too some people are
like, "Yeah, I can afford 630. I can't
afford 1,400."
>> Right. So that's
>> understood.
>> So I I I don't I don't think your
presentation's about the bond.
>> No, it's not. No, no, it's not.
>> If there's people walking watching at
home to give some context, like I know
exactly what you're doing, like why you
picked this and like go for that. But
like that's a valid question. What's the
fluctuation of that? There are multiple
ways to tackle the bonds and you know at
this point in July I would advise the
board in the future I could change my
mind so please don't hold me to this
because as we go through the bond
process there's different things we can
talk about the different rates you can
get yada yada but based on like today
July 9th I would say level level bond is
what you want throughout the the length
of whatever the case may be
>> I purely pulled these numbers because
these are numbers that have been
presented
publicly either in school board or in
the community forums before just more of
I'm not pulling numbers out of my head.
>> That's fair. I just as a when it comes
to the budget committee meetings I think
there will be concern about that. So
just as you present this reconsider the
bond option.
>> Quick question. Did you work with this
on with anyone else and have you shared
it with anyone else?
>> I have not neither.
>> So this is me. I have asked other
community members what they thought
about a different strategy to achieve
the same end goal of which as Carrie's
already pointed out is a multi-phaseed
approach to reach that end goal but on
how they would feel about it but I have
not this is the first time I'm putting
it together and starting to get it out
there because I want holes poked in it.
We want to hear feedback
and if this is something that we feel as
a community is this a more palatable
approach than going for an end all
upfront
>> but this is the current one right this
is all in
>> this is correct
>> so even when you present so this one is
in some form going to probably be
presented simply because this is the
current I would be very so back to the
bond I'd be very careful about [snorts]
what I present because 630 to 1400 is
too wide of a range in my opinion and I
would advate to the
So when this goes to get presented,
>> the bond information,
>> right? We will have the bond information
that we that the school board is
interested to pursue.
>> This is just the example that we ran
back in I think it was was it
>> April? No way.
>> It was like January or December of last
year.
>> So it wasn't that long ago
>> when this was presented at the school
board. Yeah, it was
>> a long time ago. Yeah, because I had to
go back in all the meeting minutes to
find
>> do all this work in the event we were
doing it in March 26. So like we would
have had to have done that work during
the budget process. So I'm assuming
December. Don't quote me.
>> This number isn't really [snorts]
accurate right now.
>> No, it's not.
>> I mean the number we don't need to poke
holes in this aspect of it. I think it's
the larger thing. But like yeah, the
numbers aren't accurate because this is
a rate from actually 2025.
>> Correct.
>> Oh, don't worry. I'll p
>> All right.
I guess
really I'm gonna focus on the pros and
the cons, right? The pro of this
strategy is the total cost of the
project will be cheaper. I'm I'm going
to put that out there to the taxpayer,
to the town, to everything. It will be
cheaper for a total cost.
>> The final state of what we're trying to
go for is reached in a much shorter time
frame. Mhm.
>> So that that's why a lot of people go
for this. That's why fiscally this makes
sense from a town district perspective.
The con of this is
>> there's another one.
>> Okay. The con that I came out of this is
this has a higher a potentially higher
annual out-of- pocket cost to the
taxpayer.
And that is where I feel like the
previous attempt back in 24 was a main
driver of it getting rejected is that
that skyrocketed. There was also I I'll
say confusion around land verse where
and why
>> scope was unreasonable.
>> So but from a taxpayer perspective
that's the feedback that I was getting
from the people that I pulled
individually and from our community
survey that we put out last year. My
other con on this, just so you know,
going back historically, the last time
we had a bond, that increase was not
temporary,
it became permanently built into the
baseline budget.
>> That that was 25 years ago on CHS,
>> but it was it was never rolled back. It
was never pulled out of the budget after
the final bond.
>> Yeah. So the concern I would have going
forward is whether what did it was it
was supposed to be rolled in to get this
GMS maintenance.
>> So
>> it never happened but it was supposed to
be
go back and look at notes.
>> Huh?
>> 2015.
>> Yeah.
>> There was a conversation during the
budget committee meeting about returning
that to zero. The school board promised
that they would invest that money in
deferred maintenance to GMS. Think of
where we'd be now if we were printing
$700,000 a year.
>> Makes me want to cry.
>> Yeah.
>> Going forward, you're not going to allow
that happen again.
>> I You have the history.
>> I tried not to let it happen again. I
voted vehemently against it, but the
historically my concern would be 630
to,400 or whatever the number is now is
not a temporary number. It may based on
history become a permanently bakedin
increase. Okay. But that's not a con of
the strategy. That's a con against the
administration at the time to make sure
that we don't repeat
>> annual cost initially.
>> You would argue we would say we pay more
initially because it cost us less in the
long run.
>> So if we pay more initially and continue
paying more initially forever and ever,
I never actually achieved the experience
of having paid less.
>> But I I guess
>> well let's let's get through the
strategy. No, I'm just saying
>> at the current rate we're on page two.
>> That would be a concern,
>> not as a budget, as a taxpayer. That's
my concern.
>> It's also hard to to to bind future
administrations to what's happening
today, as you well know.
>> Oh, absolutely. Which is why I love the
theory that it's less money in the long
run, but I don't. But citical side says
I don't believe it. On the positive
side, many of us will not be here in 30
years.
[laughter]
>> I'm living forever. So far so good.
>> I don't I don't understand how that's a
[laughter]
>> Yeah, keep going.
>> So So is everybody Do you understand
where I got these numbers? So then that
way you don't I I don't get crucified
later.
>> Okay, we're crucifying you now.
>> Okay. Yeah, that that's fine.
All right. Ah, two phases.
>> My proposed alternate strategy is two
phases. Again, the numbers that I have
and my assumptions and everything is
there.
Phase one comes down to doing the
twotory addition.
Replace the roof and do the required
restructuring of the roof. You can do
the facelift of the hallways and any of
the existing structures. This is a
facelift. This is not I'm going to go
make everything happy, joyful. This is
we're going to go do paint, carpet, what
whatever we need to to refresh it for
the time being.
>> No HBAC or in the country
>> in the existing structure.
No, at the point of that would become a
sunk cost later on.
>> And after spending $20 million of a
phase one, no one's going to pay for a
phase two.
>> And in Yeah. Here in the country, we
call this lipstick on a pig.
>> And I would question the contingency.
You're doing a lot of joining to old
work. You really think 7% is going to be
sufficient?
>> So this is above and beyond the numbers
that was provided by Haramman and
Harvey. This should be it should be your
owner's contingency should not be built
into the contractor's contingency.
>> Correct. So this is above and beyond the
contingency that that was in the numbers
that they provided. So
>> that but that's their contingency. Our
contingency I would argue should be
closer to 10%.
>> Could be I wanted to make it a nice
pretty round number.
>> That's why I figured you chose. Oh,
[laughter]
that's why.
>> But I would cons I would argue that it's
still
>> so 10% it would go up to 20 and a half
roughly maybe a little bit more.
>> Yeah.
>> But
the idea behind this is one we remove
the portables. We get the and I have pro
I believe I have procons later but I can
talk about it now. We get all of the
square footage that we need for the
educational expansion for the pullouts
and all of the classrooms. And we can
relieve the congestion and the pullouts
in the hallways
and while also fixing the leaks and the
water issues that we see in some of the
buildings and we can restructure the
roof as we see fit because we're going
to tear it off anyways.
This is any of the roof restructuring.
So is I'll call it um is covered by the
roof cost. How I got to that roof cost
was I took our estimate for CHS and I
said it's roughly going to be the same
to to do it and that and the roof
restructuring
>> feet.
>> Yeah. I I didn't pull up the actual
numbers, but I remember when I first got
involved with FIC,
uh Dave pulled out a number of like a
million dollars to re-roof it. So, I
said 1.5 to do any fixing and
restructuring, any of that stuff. Again,
my estimate that that's all I'm basing
it off of.
>> So, we reinstall old air handlers,
whatever else is on the roof.
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> Does this include the piece of the
building that we're want going to demo?
>> Yes, because it still needs to be used.
>> Say that again. Why does it still need
to be used if [clears throat] you have a
two-story edition with all those
classrooms in it?
>> Because the twotory edition can't be
built in a summer. So, you're still
going to use that
as they build the twotory edition and
then utilize that. And now,
>> you're Yeah. I mean, you're also not
going to
[snorts] draw a line on the roof and say
like, "We're not going to demo at the
end."
>> Yeah.
>> So, I demo work.
>> It's It would be considered a sunk cost,
but
It it's when you phase a project,
there's going to be some cost. There
there's very hard ways to get around it.
>> Wait,
I I I'm going to chime in for a minute.
I really wanted to be teamed in on this.
I really did. Um [laughter]
>> at my job, so I work at Philips Academy
in Andover, Massachusetts, which is a
completely different
understood endowment.
>> We won't hold it against you.
>> That's okay. [laughter]
>> Thinking about it, though.
>> You shouldn't. You shouldn't because I
work for museum that is part of Philips
Academy and basically we are an
independent cost center. So Phillips
Academy has a billion dollar endowment.
We have a $12 million endowment and we
needed a building update and Philips
Academy fought us tooth and nail until
we could prove that the conditions in
the building were actually deteriorating
the collections in the museum. And so we
could show them actual physical
deterioration and be like you're
neglected. We'll go to reporters and
show them the neglect. Finally, they
listened to a variety of things. It was
supposed to be a singlephase renovation.
They broke it down into two phases
because of cost. And I'm living through
phase two right now. And I can tell you
that life would have been so much easier
with one phase.
>> 100% agree.
>> So, I hear I hear you and I I wanted to
I want to be on phase two team with you
because like I I kind of understand how
to sell that in my lived experience.
However,
there's always
the systems implications of the HVAC,
the electrical, the plumbing, and the
number of times these contractors have
been like, well, you know, if it the
first time would have done it, right? I
wouldn't be needing to do this work
right now, right? It's always the first
guy's fault. So, there's always more
work and, oh, it doesn't actually line
up. We need to cut this thing and we
need to move it six feet over here. And
so, the costs are going up and more and
more is getting value
out.
>> I I
>> And so I know you understand that, but
I'm just kind of I'm saying that out
loud that I think a twofphase
strategy. I totally am on board with the
thought of marketing and I appreciate
that you're trying to make a case for it
and I would help you get on that case
for it if that's where people end up.
Um, through lived experience, I can say
that it definitely
>> adds time and money and the space
between phase one and phase two is never
what you think it's going to be.
>> I I 100% agree with you.
>> Yeah. I don't think anybody disagrees. I
[laughter] don't think this is like
anybody's ideal approach. The ideal
approach is is the one phase all at one
time,
>> but the reality is 360 to 800 is a lot
more palatable.
>> Well, that's what I'm saying. The idea
of getting a whatever was 35 $38 million
thing passed in one shot. I just don't
see it happening. That
>> that's so that is ultimately my concern.
I don't see 35 passing.
>> However, we've gone through this. Um
Peter had brought this up the phased
approach. We've discussed it. We've
thought through it. We decided against
it. Um
>> well,
>> I don't think we ever decided against
it.
>> I think there are those who are strongly
opposed to reality. I don't love it. I
just want something to show.
>> Yes, it will go in circles if it's voted
down again. Question is, how do you get
it passed?
>> Right. So that
>> you'll never get phase two,
>> but you'll never get any of it if it
gets voted down.
>> So that that's my thought. Like even if
you just get phase one, like let's say
phase one passes,
>> whatever's left, like you can work on
over years to budget in like an HVAC
system and all those things in smaller
pieces. And it sucks to do them one at a
time, but I'd rather get a substantial
piece of this done in one shot than to
get none of it done.
We faced it with this fire station,
right? Like they put forward this
beautiful plan. I'm like, that's
adorable. We'll still be talking about
this in another 15 years unless we start
making decisions. They wanted the major
safety complex that would never have
passed in one shot. So yeah, we're in
phase one physically right now. Phase
two is still down the road. So we got
>> it doesn't stand a chance of passing.
What does phase two here?
>> So the police can comment on this first.
So, um I guess a couple of things.
The twotory edition can be built
>> fairly independent.
>> Independent other than the classroom
space that we'd be losing in the
portables.
>> Correct.
>> Right.
>> So, the the only thing that
>> the portables technically don't get they
can be moved.
>> The the part to answer your question
fully, the part that
>> you haven't asked a question yet, but go
ahead. Well, [laughter]
the part that Haramman and Harvey have
mentioned is where the addition, the
twotory edition and the singlestory
join. That roof needs to be
re-engineered and structured of the
existing GMS because you're going to
have a face wall there. So, you're going
to have a higher snow load. So, that is
the part of that roof restructuring. And
while we go to replace the roof, let's
look at the rest of the structure and
look at that. So, it's fairly
independent, but we will have to touch
where it joins when we go to look at
that roof.
>> Mhm.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
>> No, that's that's fine. Um, one of one
of the conundrums we've had in passing
anything is that you have the contingent
who absolutely sees the a new building
as too expensive, too hard to hit on the
tax, you know, what you're paying on on
on your tax rate. And then you have
another contingent who say, "But Griffin
is an absolute
hole and we don't want to spend a single
dime keeping something that is in
terrible condition." So when I look at
phase one, I'm thinking,
well, the twotory edition part would get
us closer to a solution and would appeal
to the people who would probably would
vote for the full-blown thing anyway.
Um, but when you start talking about
facelifts and replacement roofs and
restructuring and all of that, I think
those sunk costs will cause that
contingent that says, "No, we don't want
to put any more money into the
failings." So, we're throwing good money
after bad people or or the lipstick on a
pink. The people who voted for a $40
million
school two years ago, three years ago
almost, aren't going to vote for this
because they wanted reasonable school.
>> They want the whole thing.
>> I I I don't I don't
>> Okay.
>> Think that. I think people will still
vote for this, right? They want
something done with the school. They're
not going to say like they're not if
they voted for the $40 million school,
they're not going to come and look at
this and go, "Oh, no. We're not doing it
because it's not $40 million."
>> We have to flip half of the nos to
yeses. or get more yeses to vote.
>> And I think that goes to your point that
no is not actually a no. A no is a no to
the the dollar amount or to the
particular bond. The no is not a no to
no to improvements to GMS. Those are two
different nos.
>> That that's right.
>> And those are the nos that we have to
flip the people that were no because of
the price.
>> So means no.
>> But you can get a part of the community
to vote who has never voted before. the
young kids in particular.
>> But I'd be careful with that because
there's both sides. Like how many of the
seniors didn't actually come out? Like
I'd be careful saying because you say
that on one side, the other side's going
to say, "Well, I'm definitely going out
now." Which is great. They'll have 80%
participation, which would be amazing,
>> but I if you look at the demographics,
>> it may not go your way.
>> Many of the seniors voted for it.
>> Yeah. So, so I I guess
This is my initial thought
>> for phase one. We can that you can
always add more to it.
>> I guess the question I would have on
phase one is would you be comfortable
with the scope should phase two not
>> appear for another several years?
>> Yes.
>> All right. So we we we are comfortable.
>> This would tie this.
>> Let's see what phase two
>> I was going to say.
>> No, but we're saying we're like a fire
station, right?
>> So I Carrie Carrie, hold on. I
understand it's later. It's in here.
>> All right, keep going.
>> Now, I just want to make sure that this
number encapsulates everything you would
be comfortable with. I'm good. I
>> I I'm not signing up to that number.
This is numbers that have been presented
before.
>> These all need to be validated,
verified, and reups.
>> I'd like to see dinner all on the table
before I talk about how it tasted.
>> Just one question.
>> How much longer is this going to delay?
We won't be able to bring this in March.
>> It's a smaller scope, but
>> this is already what they're doing. This
is everything that Herman's already
doing. I think it'd be best to see the
rest of the dance presentation.
>> Yes. Please keep going.
>> Okay.
>> And you got to get the school board to
vote yes on this, too.
>> That's why he's starting here.
>> This This is why I'm trying to get
community input. I'm trying to get the
FIC which is that you know we make
recommendations to the school board and
I am willing I I will take all the
feedback that I can and we can massage
this if this is something that the FIC
would like to present up to the school
board.
All right,
phase one interim. And the reason why I
have this is this gets built. Your 5060
swing spaces become swing space for
phase 2 during that existing building
renovation. So this answers part of the
part that Harvey and Heramman brought up
of you remodel, you need to create swing
space. This provides you that space,
>> the swing base for phase two.
>> For phase two,
>> y
>> in the interim, you could use it as
storage. You could use it as expanded
spaces for special ed or how however the
district sees that they want to use it
>> or close the door and don't use it at
all.
>> Exactly. I don't recommend that, but
yes.
>> No, because we need to fix we need to
fix the bus loops and parking and all
that down there. That building needs to
go to do that.
>> Yeah. again the
>> that's later
>> and phase
>> what's the difference in time between
your phase one and two
>> I'm getting there
phase two everything else that we're
trying to accomplish in this plan right
so demo of the 5060 separation of the
1930s this is the remodel ex of the
existing building with secure entrance
replacement systems everything else
there that is in the plan that we are
wishing to do I am and again I'm not
changing the floor plan I'm not changing
anything that Brian and Dan and Haramman
are all looking at. It is the same end
goal.
This assumptions are all cost I have
increased all cost by 25% just due to
multifasing. So you got to bring all the
construction crews back. You got to do
all of that. Um I have not
I will say I have not performed an
escalation analysis as to if I phase
this out by X number of years the
escalation that goes with that. So that
number will increase. Just trying to get
people thinking about it. No work is
done between the end of phase one and
start of phase two to get to phase two.
There's, as Joe mentioned, there's ways
that you can do this with we have
expendable trust funds that we could use
to bite off chunks of phase two to do it
in the interim, but there would be
eventually a larger phase 2 project to
help us reach that end goal at a point
down the road. Site work and landscaping
is done by completed by other means.
Whether this is expendable trust funds
like what we're doing with the roof for
CHS or not, it's the same thought
process. We could take building the
building maintenance and cap and capital
reserve fund as well as the capital
improvement fund and use it for that.
It's roughly on the same order of cost
as the CHA's roof. So I figured we can
use the same model build it into our m
our yearly plan. I have a larger
contingent contingency on this again to
make a pretty round number that can be
adjusted up and down and look at it. I
like zeros. I don't like
>> this phase in particular more would
concern me to have I would want a bigger
contingency in this phase because this
is where you're getting into the older
part of the building and things are
weird and
>> what you don't know
>> you don't know.
>> Yep.
>> Where the building addition it's fairly
independent other than when you make the
connection.
>> Okay.
Questions, poke holes, thoughts?
Go ahead.
Um, couple of things that I
would like about this sort of deal. Uh,
if I think in my mind, what would the
people vote for? How much would they
vote for
if we presented it to them? What would
be a number that um we'd have a
reasonable a more reasonable chance of
passing? And in my mind, I was saying 16
to 20 million. Now, so you're thinking
about 20 million there for phase one.
What happens if we pass phase one and we
never get phase two done? We're we're
dealing with
a situation in the old part of of GMS
that to me are critical system stuff
that needs to be done. So with respect
to the scope of phase one, I would be
reluctant
that we that we're not doing more to
improve
uh the building that we're going to have
to live with.
>> So the Go ahead.
>> I I'm
we've been doing this for a long time
now and I come down to the conclusion if
we don't do it right, we should do
nothing. And I think we had it with that
proposal to build a new two stories, do
what we're going to do, fix the bus
loops, take care of the septic systems.
We're going to take a little bigger.
We're biting off a little bigger nut,
but I think people can see that it's a
solution,
>> right?
>> And here I'm looking at 20 million on
the first one, and here's 25 million. I
know you don't like cents. This
>> that's 45 million. That doesn't make
sense to me.
>> But I I also it it come. It's not I'm
trying to present an area of where I'm
not I can't say I'm not focusing on the
total cost. I am concerned about the
total cost. The problem is it's the
upfront cost and the out-of- pocket cost
on an annual basis of where a large
contingency have mentioned the previous
project was overblown.
>> And Dan,
>> can I interrupt one second?
You spend more money to get to the same
place if the town passes it.
>> Yep.
>> I said that up front on this.
>> We've discussed this for the past two
and a half years. We've discussed this
plan and decided against it and went
with the plan we recommended for. So
>> the other thing is I would personally
rather
>> although the superintendent disagrees,
structure your bond so the people who
are living in town the next 10, 20 years
pay less and the people who move in 30
years from now are paying additional.
That's basically what you're doing here.
Spreading out out over more time
>> and you could do that with a bond.
>> Well, bonds get
>> but you have to go before the voters
twice and sell a $20 million project and
a $25 million project. I I don't I I
personally would vote no for this. So
I'm just going to say that if you look
at it, the only way that this reduces
cost on an annual basis is if you finish
paying off phase one before you start
phase two.
>> Well, no, hold on.
>> Because if you do, you did 360.
>> Let me let me finish going through
please.
>> I want to know the timing.
>> I thought you were done. Sorry.
>> Okay.
>> Please.
>> So
phase two. Any questions on proposal of
phase two? Not talking about numbers,
not talking about timing.
>> It's an interesting approach.
>> Okay.
Proposed timeline.
Phase 128
construction ends in 2030.
We refresh and estimate the guaranteed
maximum
>> I understand [laughter]
over the days. But if if you think so my
proposal is phase two doesn't get
proposed until the LMS lease payment
ends or it gets proposed but we don't go
for a warrant until that ends
>> which is also when the higher cost for
the solar panels also kicks in
>> maybe and potentially but still
the idea behind this is with the lease
payment ending we can help offset the
bond tax impact by the already known
lease payment. It's not going to offset
all of it, but it'll offset some of it.
And then construction ends at 24 months
later.
>> Is that payment?
>> It's 330
something,000 made in two payments over
the year.
>> Pain a whole lot on 25 million. That's
not I was saying you can make the case
going with phase one and in 10 years
it'll go down because we'll finish
paying off LMS but then you're asking
somebody to accept $1,600 to get $50
back later because the reality is the
LMS lease doesn't have that major of an
effect compared to the other one.
>> I understand. I'm just trying to say of
how to help at that point you have the
360 plus the 400 which is still higher
than the initial six something. So
you're really
>> with an offset from the LMS
>> school. So it's
>> and I'm only going to be 82.
>> Yeah. Don't worry about it.
>> You're talking 16 years until phase 2 is
done. Yes.
>> Two years.
>> Yep.
>> Can I go ahead?
>> Just a quick clarifying question.
>> The premise I I want to make sure I'm
understanding. The premise of your
conversation today is partly that if we
if if there's a no on the allin-one kind
of proposal. This is an alternative way
to sell it to the to the community or
version.
>> We have to pick one of these versions to
put on there.
>> Okay.
>> Yes. Because we Yeah. We can't put it on
as the whole thing and then get voted no
and then put it on like this. We have
chosen we have
>> we made a decision to go with what we
made for a reason and we've spent two
and a half years making that decision.
>> So I I also want to be clear that the
project that Peter
>> not how we were going to propose that on
a warrant article. And what Peter was
talking about at that time was phasing
it was having you design a project, you
execute the project and then you can
then morph all of the subsequent
projects to what we need at the time.
The difference here is we know the
endgame, we know the end plan. So if you
wanted to do smaller things in between
two phases, we know what we're doing. We
don't have to go redesign it. We don't
we just have to go refresh it. we go
contact and say go do this part.
>> I guess it comes down to how much do you
want to gamble
>> because the reality is if we look at the
last year's votes expanding coverage for
the fire station
most easy sell wins by one vote.
>> So
>> how much do you think when this
originally pass put was put up recently
went 60% the wrong way how much do you
think the likelihood is one phase is
going to pass? That's the question.
That's the question. So, if you think
I'm going to put it all all in and see
how it rolls, that's fine. That's a risk
you're willing to take. Yep.
>> But everybody there might be other
people in the room not willing to take
that risk.
>> I I I think the the the the cell for
this is easy. It is a comprehensive
solution for doing it all at one phase.
We fix the building problems. We fix the
educational issues we have with little
kids running from one end of the
building to the other end for OT or PT
and we are we are taking all those
things into account and here it is. It's
not a new school. It's a renovation and
it's a complete solution.
>> I
>> I think that is the cell.
>> I I completely 100% agree with
everything you guys are saying. I still
think it fails,
>> but I still have
I I still have the notion I don't think
35 or 38 with the one-year escalation is
going to pass because that is the same
bond number that we went after in 24
because it was a $44 million school with
a $37 million bond because we were going
to get 7 million in state aid. So, we're
at that number again. I don't see it
passing.
>> The only reason I would delay it is if
Ray is right and there will be state aid
that we could access in the next couple
of years.
>> And that's it. Lot [snorts] of
>> so that this to me is a way that I have
gotten projects like this to pass
knowing caveats. It's going to take a
lot longer. It's going to take a lot
more money and it's going to cost more
overall, but it is in a way in a
structure that is palatable to the vast
general general populace that needs to
approve it.
>> But your current kindergarteners will be
graduated from high school, not in
college by the time this will be in
college.
>> We have people that that are graduated
college after since the last one was
voted on.
>> So I again I hear you. My my concern
isn't to worry about my concern is to
what what can we do today and then for
the longevity of the district in the
town
and again I'm coming back to I'm with
Carrie and I'm with Joe on this. I don't
see 38 passing.
>> It may not pass. It may not pass.
>> And then what do you do
>> then
the past two years?
>> The people who want good schools might
leave Lichfield at that point in time.
>> They probably won't. They probably will
go to vote and to um other school
districts,
>> but that doesn't get rid of our problem
just people leave.
>> I am just trying to present an alternate
strategy h of how we reach the same end
game.
>> I also
>> I appreciate what you've done. I think
you've done a great job. I think we're
reversing everything we've worked on.
>> I don't think so. I disagree.
>> I appreciate this, Dan. I appreciate
when people think of different ideas and
different things and stuff like that.
And believe me, I understand the
potential challenge of this passing next
March at a 30 something odd million
dollar number, right? Like I I I don't
want to make light of that in any shape
or form. Like I have no idea if it will
pass. Like I have to in my position to
be glass half full that it's going to
pass.
>> But you know, rationally, right, I don't
know if that's going to happen. I don't
my concerns with this type of model is
I've seen in a lot of other places this
type of idea and we can we were
literally just speaking of Hollis and
this is what they tried to do and phase
two hasn't passed right like
>> and rather than just go once and work
really hard to get that one positive
vote if it's even possible like they
split it up and now they can't get the
second yes right like so that is a
concern We also in I don't even live
here but not know this enough.
>> We're not in isolation. The police
station has to be addressed, right? Like
and they're patiently waiting for us to
figure out the school. And like if we're
introducing like
>> a two-phase project with a timeline of a
decade, when the hell is the police
station getting built? like, you know,
like and
>> and now we're talking like three, four,
five bond payments for this town at the
same time. Like
>> I I I don't ever seeing and maybe I'm
just maybe I'm glass half empty now when
I say this, phase two ever passing.
>> Ever passing. And if you can't get both
phases, then what's the point?
>> Because phase one gets us
>> more space
>> more space for the educational hold on
>> broken. I understand that.
>> That's the problem,
>> right? That is the problem.
>> But that more space allows us to bite
off. Let's say we don't do all of phase
two and in between phase one and phase
two, you can do other projects to burn
down the scope of phase two.
>> But we have other schools like we're
seeing it with Campbell. Like we are on
the preface. We are on the edge with
Campbell.
>> I I completely agree with everything
you're saying.
>> We haven't had AC in six weeks. Thank
you.
>> So that's that's I'm thinking about the
AC as I'm thinking about this project.
>> So Ray, what's what was the timeline for
possibility for state aid?
>> State aid.
>> Well, if you look right now, the
revenues are up. We're up about $183
million up right now. Uh about a hundred
million of that ought to go to towards
the educational trust fund. Um
state aid right now, it it wasn't in the
budget. We have a budget coming up this
this year in January.
>> Conquer took conquered slated to take
like take most of it.
>> Well, Conquer was in there for $48
million ahead of us,
>> right?
>> We're we're at there for $7 million with
our project, but this would be a this
would change our project,
>> but part of what I've I've been trying
to work on on the background and I'm
going to Rich and I've talked a couple
of times. We need to figure a better way
for state aid. They don't want to start
building any more schools because of the
declining enrollment. We went from
26,000 students. We're down to 156,000
in the state and falling. So, they're
talking about ways to restructure it for
remodeling projects and stuff. Again,
the whole application project process
for state aid is ridiculous at DOE. So,
>> and what percentage could be applied?
So, I'm thinking if we went phase one
and we could get, you know, seven 10
million all of a sudden phase one is a
more economically viable option. Do we
have to wait two three years for that?
>> No, I would say
>> better than 18 or 16 overall.
>> 100% agree
>> and and I would say that it you wouldn't
want to be doing a phase project with
state a phase one.
>> They're going to want a solution. No,
phase one, if I knew that I had in, you
know, on the the horizon, say in three
years, I had access to, you know,
whatever percentage, all of a sudden
phase one's a lot nicer looking. Yeah.
>> And even if I had to wait three years,
I'm still done way ahead of the end date
projected phase.
>> Respectfully, I don't think you can
count on any state. And I appreciate the
work you guys.
>> I agree with you.
>> Well, we're we're still trying. In
principle, I always feel that you should
not approve a product you're not willing
to pay for yourself. That said, if
there's a chance that the application
process is going to open in a year or
two, why wouldn't I wait a year or two?
>> Because
>> well, for us,
>> we don't know what's in a year or two.
>> A year or two, you might have a yes.
>> But for us to even even if by some
miracle in a year or two, state aid
became available to schools again. And
again, I want to appreciate the work
that our reps are doing on this because
I know this is this is something you
guys are working on.
>> It's it's nothing against that. But even
if that happens, you have to rewrite all
the rules for us to benefit from it.
>> So it's not just the money being
available like we're in line. Yes, we
are third in line in state aid for a
great up for a new building. This is not
a new building. By the current rules, we
fall all the way back to the end of the
line.
>> Like which
>> I don't know who else is going to jump
in line if if we're state aid comes back
available
>> unless you go back to your new building
idea.
>> I I don't think a new build we've we've
vetted the new building thing as this
committee as as a group or whatever.
This community is not going to support a
new building. Like whatever people's
personal feelings are and like I'll say
it on the record, I would love to have a
brand new elementary school, right? Like
>> you shot that one with past board
decisions.
>> Maybe. So
>> I think past decisions, I'm not laying
it at your feet.
>> No, no. I No, I know that. But like if
you were just asking me the person like
I I would love like like as a
superintendent I would love to be part
of the design of a new school. That's
lovely. I have an interest in
architecture. That stuff would be great.
But like rational side of me says this
community is never supporting a new
building. If it if they would if they
were they would have it hasn't happened.
>> The first got presented.
>> Not the last time. No time before that.
>> No. I think there [clears throat] were
choices that were made and timelines
that were twisted that could have
allowed you to get
>> Well, there's there's there's some other
problems as we work through the issues
at the state level. One of them is that
they the they are spending most of the
money that they get that gets put into
the $50 million state aid bucket on the
what they call the tail. And this is all
the all the
>> the bonds and loans that they're paying
down for all these other districts. But
the tail is dying. You know, we have
other problems like New Market went and
decided they were going to do a project
just like this. They did it all on their
own while there was moratorium on
building for state aid. Now they're
stuck with the big bill and they keep
trying to get state aid rewritten so
that they can get their money now even
though they broke the rules back then.
So as we progress forward,
>> forgiveness later, don't you?
>> Huh? [laughter]
>> It's easier to ask for forgiveness,
right?
>> Yeah. But now you have to tell the
voters, well, we waited a year or two.
We could have had it for less money.
>> I don't want to wait a year or two. I
want to get the project done, get this
behind us and move on. Like the miracle
you got
the savings only the actual costs are
escalating at the same time, right? Like
>> I went I went took my kids on an
adventure today. We came back and gas is
14 cents higher than it was this
morning. like you cannot control the way
people are going to think about money in
six, nine months from now because you
can't control so much. So I don't know.
I think I would sort of vote for not the
phased approach and I and present it all
in allin one.
>> I I 100% agree. I am on board with an
all-in. I am just trying to provide a
proposed different strategy
>> due to
>> I have my concerns about the or I I
there is a challenge with the all end. I
don't know if we're going to surmount
that challenge.
>> Ultimately, it's the school board's
decision.
>> Absolutely.
>> I see just flexibility with that phase
approach trailer. get the first piece of
it which is much more palatable out of
the gate and even if you never get the
second phase and I understand it's a
budgeting
gymnastics that will have to be done but
you can budget for projects down the
road and start taking it in smaller
pieces and
>> cut up that phase two and say all right
this year we're going to budget for the
we're going to budget for the HVAC and
we're going to build that into our
budget to do the HVAC and then we're
going to budget into our into mud it 5
years from now to demo the back side of
the 50s building.
>> You realize what you're saying is
exactly what got us right to this right
now.
>> No, because we didn't have
>> we budget money in there for our
maintenance.
>> It doesn't get done.
>> They find something else that needed to
be done before they did the maintenance
and the money's gone. This is budgeting
things in like that when you got a
bottom line budget doesn't work very
well. You can spend the money on
anything you want. Doesn't have to be
spent on that. it can be spent on this
>> also
>> and that is exactly what got us here
>> also the difference of I don't know if I
would necessarily do bottom put it in
the general fund budget I would do it
more in the trust funds
>> right
>> that's the only way you can hope that it
will happen that way
>> that that's what I
>> we should have done way back
>> that way back
>> right
>> so again
>> it was not meant to change anything that
we're currently going forward it was
purely a different way of how to look at
this consider and I appreciate it
because you're recognizing based on the
last vote which was super majority the
wrong way it's there is a risk
>> it's a major challenge
>> it is a huge risk
>> you want us to vote on whether or not to
recommend this
>> no I don't think it's in the place we we
can't we can't get to that unless we
>> so a couple other things it tear apart
again I appreciate I appreciate you just
putting yourself out there Dan because
like we're just pouring it Right.
>> It's but this is thick skin
>> to to get
>> to hone this out and hammer this out,
right? If this was
>> people were going to ask this anyway, so
it's not a bad conversation to have,
>> but like if we're not demoing the 60s
wing for lack of a for that. I think
that's what we call it, right?
>> Like
>> we need the sunk cost dollar because
that has to be figured into that big
number because right now the 30s
building is a sunk cost. We are heating
that building. We are keeping it in some
sort of working condition.
>> Could be a beautiful SAOU office.
>> It could be, but like right now it's
storage, but it has to be like
>> like just use heat. It has to be heated
right now because all the heating is
coming out of it. Right. So now are we
passing two chunks of that building that
like are not in use just to heat the
building? Like are we going to heat the
30s? We're going to heat the 60s and no
one's actually in these parts of the
building. And like one of the the the
huge issue with the 60s section is the
envelope. Yeah.
>> And unless we tie up that envelope, all
the problems that that is presenting us,
we don't go away and they're still
there.
>> So they So where the heating is all
forced hot water to the rooms that are
not used, you just close the valves. The
pipes are still going to get hot, sure,
but the radiators aren't. But and like
this is not my expertise and my concern
is like we don't do that for the 30s
building
>> because we can't because the main
because the main water line runs through
it
>> because it's like this maze of right.
Yeah.
>> Right. No.
>> And think it's not like so how else is
that water get to the rest of the
buildings?
>> It's well pipes running through the 60s.
>> I have a different argument to offer.
>> The last time this all went to bond, we
had an entirely different
administration.
one that the people trusted very little
that were make
>> that's true
>> very little is that
>> they did not trust who was in place in
the administration and as I've went on
record saying this before about this
project and how well it's been vetted I
think the view of what the
administration is than the school board
is different today than it was when that
went to bond
>> it's ultimately going to come down to
dollars people were screaming with their
last assessment in tax bill
>> oh the last assessment yeah So now
you're we're going to whack him with
another law.
>> The tax bill is never going down. You
have to vote.
>> It could if we were never
the right. So
>> I mean this no matter what nothing I
mean 20 million might not pass right
>> versus skyrocketing are two different
things. There are people in town who saw
what double taxes. Mine didn't go up
because I'm right in that map where my
overall my assessment stayed relatively
the same to everybody else, but there
are people in town in the mobile home
park over on 3A that their taxes
doubled.
>> Can they are so realistically and I
don't know I'm just assuming that there
are people who are in those places who
literally cannot absorb that. There are
those whose taxes went up and you're
like, "Ah, that's a car payment. Not a
problem." But the people who can't
absorb it, now you're gonna whack them
for another. So those are the ones
you're gonna say who are going to say
no. So they always go up. Yes. But it
doesn't have to go up this much. So the
question is, are you going to have
enough yeses? And I still say you're
not.
>> We may not, but we have to at least try.
And do
>> That's what we did last time. We tried
and we got clobbered.
>> You You had a $43 million.
>> This isn't that much farther off.
>> No. No. We had a $37 million bond.
>> Let's just say I appreciate your
optimism.
>> This This is the exact same bond. It's
the exact same
>> that and
>> and tax bills have gone up since then,
>> right?
>> So I I think you have if you would like
to climb that hill, more power to you,
but I think it's going to be a rocky
slide down.
>> I'll help climb the hill. Like I again I
will not stand in the way. I parachute
for like I I will be I I'm all in on the
all-in approach. I just don't think it's
going to go. That's why I have been
working on this, put this together.
>> And then you got the bigger question.
What do you do after that?
>> Exactly.
>> I think you have to have a much if let's
play that up and and again I appreciate
this work.
I I I I do not support this at this
exact second. Maybe persuaded. Just saw
it for the first time 20 minutes ago. So
like absorbing like anyone else. But
like if you were just listen to me first
everybody. I'm not saying this how
anything's going to play out. If you
bring the $35 million project in March
27 and it fails. And let's let's for
just just hear me out. Argument's sake.
It's a close closer, right? Like
whatever the case may be. And 55% said
yes and 45% no. So you're not at the 60
threshold, but you're within shouting
distance, right? Again, a million things
can change between now and then, but
just I my initial gut reaction would be
like, try it a second time. Can you make
up that 5%. You made up a huge percent
from the new building to this point. Can
you make up the last five? You may not.
You may never be able to make that 5%
up. And I would go back to it again,
right? In March 28, if it fails two
years in a row in March 28, you have to
have a real gut check conversation about
education in this town. like a real gut
check conversation. And I'm not even
talking about reconfiguring your
schools. I'm talking about outsourcing
your education to other places. That's
where you are as a community. Like
that's that's it. And if that's the
choice you want to make, and I'm still
superintendent at that time because it's
a community choice, I will help do the
best I can to facilitate that for you.
But like that's what's on the table
here. Like that's the choice you're at.
That that is like and you know,
education is evolving at warp speed in
this in this state not at the it is and
it isn't at the same time but there's a
lot of stuff happening from a
legislative standpoint that can change
the picture a lot between now and March
28 we're talking about right so I say
this now and maybe some things change
and that's not the case but that's what
you're facing right like this isn't just
like we got to fix some parts of the
high school you're like kind of
direction of education in this town is
on the line with this right and I'm my
role is to guide you on that stuff and
to help the community with what they
want to do with their education, advise
you what I think the best ideas are for
that thing. But it's ultimately, you
know, the board's choice and by proxy
the community's choice to do all that
type of stuff. But that's what we're
talking about here. Like it it so that
if this gets voted no, that's where
we're at.
>> I I agree.
>> Go ahead.
>> How how publicly do you say those
things? I mean, I know this
>> just said, [laughter]
>> it doesn't get more public than this. I
would put that on your video
>> cuz like [laughter] that was impactful
and I I kind of as a parent of a child
with AMS and LMS I can feel that. Um
I can feel that and I think that's
interesting to hear you say it out loud
and it is impactful to hear you say it
out loud to articulate what the person
we have put in charge of our school
system sees as on the line in these
conversations. So, I don't know what you
take from that, but I will say that I I
think that um I would encourage you to
say that again.
>> I have a feeling I will say some version
of that a lot in the next six months.
>> I think you should
>> nine months.
>> Put it on the video. Put it out now.
>> If we do a video,
>> if we do,
>> okay,
>> so you can't use scare tactics to get
there. But
>> it does make sense.
>> It's not scare tactics. And I'm not
trying to scare you because there are
plenty of communities that outsource
their education to other towns. Like
that's kind of what some people like put
it in a video. Some people would, you
know, may or may not perceive that well.
>> You got to then figure out what's best
for your town at that point, right? Like
you know the convenient outsourcing that
you see most frequently in the state is
high school students, right? Like that
is the most frequent version of that
that you see. That is not the only
version that is out there,
>> right?
went through that whole evolution
already once happened to my son's class.
>> You're gonna and like we don't know. I'm
not here to take any stance on open
enrollment right now. No one think I'm
>> No, but I'm saying I have worked so hard
to take zero stance on that issue for
like years at this point because because
I'm just a period. Thank you. Um but
like
let's say that like we just don't know
what that's going to look like and that
is a the discussion 100% is going to
continue. The end result we just don't
know what it's going to look like and it
could have a drastic effect or no effect
or a little effect or a big we just
don't know. We don't know what the
effect of that type of thing is going to
have on school districts, right? We
don't know what that specifically that's
going to have on Lichfield. You know, I
can go talk about tons of different
options of what that could look like,
but we don't know. That could change how
towns approach outsourcing education
that the long-term model that has been
putting your high school kids, it's age
kids into other high schools, right? But
if open enrollment is going to be part
of the calculus, does that change all of
that stuff? You just don't know, right?
So, like that's why I say like you don't
know where this is headed by March 28.
So much can change in the next 27
months. Like so much, right? But like
this is the type of stuff people got to
recognize when we're talking about
talking about this school project. Like
it's not just like fixing a roof, right?
Like there is a lot that that is part of
the larger picture here of this type of
thing. And again, I will I obviously
there's
>> like in my role I will my job is to
guide and help and advocate for people
what I think as an educational expert is
best, right? But ultimately my goal is
to answer the community and what the
community wants to do, right? Like
that's ultimately what it comes down to,
right? So like the community's got to
figure out what they want to do here.
>> I would just This is me as me taxpayer,
not [clears throat] a budget committee
members. I don't want to get any
accusations there. And I I appreciate
your your passion for it, but I can tell
you when I hear that, I'm like, well,
overall enrollment in town is down.
We've managed to sustain more students
in the district than we currently have
enrolled. Why would we need to
outsource? So the question so I'm just
telling you to me without much things
that comes across as we trying to
manipulate me into a vote. So I would be
careful of that. I'm just saying as a
voter
I would be care I app like I said I can
see the passion. I can hear it but I'm
also grew up in New Yorker and highly
cynical. So, what I'm going to say is
GMS has held far more students than are
currently housed within it. And now
you're telling me as a voter that if I
don't pass a new more space, I can't
house less fewer students overall. It
doesn't make sense logically.
>> The space like and like we will do a lot
of roll out for this over the next like
whatever. It's not about the space. It
is the condition of the building.
>> Then we should rearrange phase one that
we don't it's not about case, then do we
really need to do the addition first?
>> We're not. So, like I want to kind of
>> demoing the 50s building
>> like
>> a larger conversation. I don't want to
get like
>> over there
>> so into all of this right this second,
but like
>> I know it's an addition by definition of
an addition because we're physically
adding on to the building,
>> but we have to think of it as a
replacement. You're replacing the 60s
wings with the two floor wings
>> portable clusters
way beyond their end of
>> you're not gaining a ton of space
between those useful
>> like right now the like the like getting
rid of the 60 wings. I double checked
this this today cuz I thought I would
assumed it would come up tonight and it
is
>> the demoing of the 60 wings and the and
the removing of the portables. You're
getting rid of 19 classrooms for all
some of it in reading and special ed and
all this stuff. It's 19 classrooms,
learning spaces, however you want to
define that.
>> The addition depending on how you use
the flex space is 16 to 20 or excuse me,
18 to 20 learning spaces. That's a
replacement 19 to 19. That's what you're
doing, right? Like we're not and I know
we have to call it an addition, right?
Like I get it because we're physically
adding on to the building. It's not
simply renovating, but it is a
replacement. You're replacing this
section for that section because the
section you're replacing is not
repairable anymore. Like it's it's just
not it's just not repairable anymore.
You have to start over. It is over 65
years old. Like it has to be.
>> But the other things that you're doing
there
>> need to be the things that we need to
focus on.
>> We're going to fix the bus loop. We're
going to fix the septic system. Um all
that is at its life. Its end of life
now. We're going to replace those pumps
and all that
>> that stuff because we're moving them.
We're going to get the the traffic
straightened out off of 3A. I mean,
there's a lot of safety concerns like
the kid bolting out that dorm being on
3A. I mean, there's a lot of safety
concerns that are all housed within this
whole project. And just like about this
the the like reducing enrollment, like
that's a real thing, too. Like I don't
want to discount any of that, but like
this is why I said like we don't exactly
know how all this stuff in education is
going to play out the next couple years,
right? Because what happened a lot this
past spring, which Dan said hasn't
really ever happened before, is it him
giving tours to incoming kindergarten
families because their thinking is open
enrollment is coming and if I don't want
my kid in this building, I'm going to
send them to a different school,
>> right? So like that is real like that
idea that like and I'm I'm not here to
to put judgment on school choice. That's
not what I'm doing. I'm talking about
the tangible issue about like we can
face if we don't address this building,
we're going to lose kids. We're going to
lose kids whether they move out of town
or they utilize other ways to go to
other schools. And if that's the right
thing for the kid as like just an
advocate of students, great, right?
Sorry. Like that's just the way it is.
Like students need to do what's best for
students. Like so like I'm like morally
fine with that. But like my concern is
like that doesn't make it cheaper or
better for us, right? Like there's like
>> still got a building we got to address
and like we're not going to have like
this savings if we have less kids
because we still have the building that
we have to heat that we have to run
electricity for that we have to teach
classes on and stuff like that.
>> That's not prepared.
>> That's not bring one issue back to your
point of those who may have a little
more than others in town. The people who
have a little more in town probably have
enough and enough parents or they could
hire someone to bust them to a private
school half an hour away. The people who
have less, who may have one car if
they're lucky, whose both parents work
different shifts potentially, they don't
have the means or the ability sometimes
to get these kids to other towns or
other private schools. They just don't.
And the kids that have the means are
going to benefit more from open
enrollment in my opinion.
>> It's not the shift we're seeing
nationwide, though. and and here we have
>> but the people without transportation
>> people want school choice it it
>> but you have to get them there and you
have to
>> I would tell you based on the school I
was at because we had despite what
people want to say there is a lot of
low-income housing people there and they
still got there because parents
prioritize education
>> so I would say Nashville does have more
options
>> did not come from Nashville I was in
over there there's kids from Brooklyn
there's kids from all over the
So where where
>> yeah bring it back to facilities
>> the what ifal decisions the ultimately
our goal is to move the this project
forward in some aspect. Yep.
>> And does a phase one one phase $35
million project only moves this forward
if it's a yes. Can we get that yes? I
would contend no. But it's also one I'm
a non- voting member. Two
it's up to the school board. And three,
I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make
the decision because I'm not a betting
person. But the reality is I don't think
it passes. So what's the plan? Which is
why I appreciate that you looked at a
phase approach because it could move
sections of it forward potentially, but
then you're in the group has to accept
and decide as a group that realistically
that's the only way to move it forward.
And I think that right now there's
there's enough people who aren't willing
to or do not wish to make that decision.
>> I I 100% agree. It was meant to present.
I'm not expecting a vote. I'm not
expecting a recommendation to come out
of this tonight. It was purely to
present this.
>> I love the conversation.
>> So, think about it.
>> Carrie, don't underestimate the fact
that you're a community leader and
people do listen to you. Well, I can
tell again I just I hear from a lot of
people who got hit by those taxes and to
see people who are actively considering
having to relocate as it is based on
taxes to ask them to cough up another
over $1,000 for the next 30 years. I I
just on top of all the other stuff we're
going to hit them with and we can
discuss my opinions on whether or not we
can absorb some of that in existing
school budget based on past budgets. But
the reality is it's a big hit and what
it again
it's a yes there's a need. How do we get
some of that addressed? That's the goal.
That's why then again that's why I'm
asking about state aid because if it's a
matter of delaying it two years to have
the option to tap into
>> I don't know I don't know that we'll
have that in two years but I
>> I can only hope that there might be a
way with some if you take like new
market that did it in a rears they did
it during the moratorum
>> um that maybe at some point we could
>> help make them
>> pass a pass a bill and help them and
help us.
>> All right. TW
about the end of the year.
>> Okay. All right. Moving on to the end of
the year encumbrances.
>> We spent it.
>> I had questions on this one.
>> So, I was not at the June 30 school
board meeting when they decided this. I
was enjoying vacation with my family,
but this is the output that I received
from Mr. Cutter at the time.
um just to know where it went to.
>> So I'm curious because
>> I was on the phone
>> because when we left here the the
recommendation was to vote to focus on
safety issues, AEDs, the nurse had to
have the new sink there. There was uh
because I looked it up before I got
here. There was um burglary system
notification.
We had a list of safety priorities and
yet we went with steam cleaning
auditorium seating painting.
>> I voted no on that by the way.
>> And some other stuff. So I'm curious as
to how and why. And again, I'm gonna ask
here because you know the recommendation
on this committee was one thing and I
can guarantee you it's going to come up
again in August at the budget committee
meeting because preview of the questions
I'm gonna be asking is how and why would
we prioritize steam cleaning seats over
stated safety issues? Can I just make
one comment that's like a paragraph long
that goes long.
>> Okay.
>> I was very disappointed watching the
school board discussion about allocating
end ofear fund balances. There was no
reference to the work of recommendation
the FIC committee
um did the meeting where we were
supposed to finalize those
recommendation was cancelled and there
are still no full list of prioritized
projects. Neither of the FC members were
present for the actual meeting although
one member voted by text to the school
board chair and I appreciate all they
did to try to do it remotely but they
were still unable to participate in the
actual discussion. I understand the
board is not obligated to act on our
recommendations,
but failing to even mention them is
disappointing and sends a clear message
that our time and expertise are not
valued. If our recommendations not
desired or discussed, it will become
harder and harder to find people willing
to serve on the thick or similar
committees.
So I will go back that when I was asked
as a schoolboard member to look at
prioritizations for end ofear
encumbrances for the list that we worked
off. I added a column for the FIC
recommendations as noted that we made
here.
>> Yeah.
>> So that was presented to the school
board as to what our recommendations
were. So, some of them were in there
like the fire curtain as well as
uh I believe yes, the fire curtain did
get in there.
>> Yep.
>> And then we also looked at some of the
other recommendations we had which were
not necessarily safety.
>> They were listed as nice to habs right
on your thing. So again, when we're
looking at AES,
>> we bought the AES.
>> All right. So you got those. Um,
>> we had to buy them by June 1st because
there was pricing connected to it.
>> All right. So, where did the funds come
from? If not the end of year,
>> we had to transfer money to accounts to
do.
>> I mean, this is it's a bottom line
budget. And this is why it's hard to
budget and this is why we have to have
the flexibility to pivot because if
we're going to buy stuff at reasonable
prices like we need to act when stuff
happens
>> like and it's an AED thing.
>> No, but it was recommended. It was
recommended for AED end of year
conferences. So, what I'm going to say
it's going to come down to, and heads up
again, I try not to blind inside anybody
at budget committee meetings, but when
you're looking at 1.4 4 million
underspend.