Town of Troy Zoning Board of Adjustment May 6th 2025 part 2

Speakers are labeled SPEAKER_N. This transcript is machine-generated.

Recording

live on the
YouTube make a
motion return. Do we have to reopen it
or just go? No, just go. Okay. Motion is
on review of Mr. Clemente's appeal from
an administrative decision filed on
41025. The VA finds and rules that it
lacks subject matter jurisdiction to
hear this appeal because article 4 of
the town zoning ordinance involves an
innovative land use control and by
virtue of RSA
675 5 section 3. This board may not hear
an appeal to a planning board decision
involving an innovative land use
control. I will second that
motion. Any
discussion? Okay. All in
favor? Hi. Hi.
Hi. What we got here? I said I Oh, you
said I
Okay. You're staying. I would say talk
to your lawyer. Yeah. I'm I'm kind of
kind of at a loss because the lawyer
said that the New
Hampshire method was I had to see
the zoning board before I could go to
spirit court. No, he he he misunderstood
that and it's a technicality, but
because that
subdivision did in some innovative land
use controls,
it sets them up so
that you have to go to the ZBA as
opposed to coming here. Just just stop.
You don't know the rules, so you have to
start at the ZBA no matter what. Now
that we've declined to see it, now you
can take it to superior court. That's
all you need to know. Okay. So, can you
give us innovative things that they did?
Yes. Well, there'll be there'll be an
opinion that you'll get. What were the
innovative things that they did? It's in
the zoning regulations.
Believe it has to do with conservation.
Conservation position. The conservation.
So, you mean they kept some trees under
the power lines? That's why you're
innovating. What about all of us on
South Street and all that
water? That has something to do with
them keeping a conservation subdivision
conservation area under the power lines
on South Main Street.
Something you discussed with your
council.
Well, this is a town document that the
planning board supposedly was supposed
to. That's their application for a
subdivision right here. United States
plans for drainage andor soil erosion
and sediment control nothing.
So there's so how is this check mark
there because of the zoning ordinance
that that was done under we don't have
any authority whatsoever
as is EBA so the planning board was it
and even if they were short of their
duties that there's nothing that can be
done except a citizen's got to go hire a
lawyer to take care of what the town
didn't do is I mean is that what we're
saying we're just saying our board has
no jurisdiction couldn't make
any changes or unfortunately that is how
it goes. So what are you what are you
defining your board as to the C the
zoning board of adjustments? What is the
what is your title for I mean I just
want to know this is the zoning board of
adjustments. Okay. So in most matters
the zoning board takes we have to hear
the case first. So even if you wanted to
skip the town and want to go straight to
superior court, the superior court will
tell you no, start here. So you did the
right thing by starting here following
what your legal advice said. Now that
you've been declined that we can't hear
it because of the the special
circumstances of it. You take that to
your lawyer with the decision letter
that somebody will send you. I don't
know who's writing it. somebody will
write it from this board and you take
that to your legal counsel and then your
legal counsel will help you go for the
next steps. So is a conservation part a
loophole? That's a loophole. So if you
get land anywhere and you say, "Well,
that part right there is a conservation.
So you can't do anything. You can't have
us doing water, anything like that."
Here's the problem. When that water
comes off that citizen of Troy
subdivision, Detroit. When that water
comes off their land, it hits South
Street's tar and that's the town's
water. That's not their water. There's
no ditch. There's no drainage coverts
and we're all living it. It seems like
the town's not looking after what's
actually going to happen. Mhm. So when
you talk about we're going to have to we
can't block culvers because any water
that come over the road or under the
road undermining the road is going to be
up to the town of Troy and then the town
will go after whoever where it started
at. So if someone blocked it or made it
go farther faster the town will go after
them at that point for the repair of the
road slashculver. Okay. So if that
doesn't happen, if it's just water,
because now they've uprooted trees and
put in their buildings and now there's
just water everywhere because they don't
have a culvert either. They I don't know
how they're going to get a driveway in
there. That's where they're going to
have to figure out because if they if
they this is just if they the same with
my driveway. So there is water that
rushes to the road and I have a culvert
underneath my driveway currently. Covert
was put in years ago. It was my
responsibility to keep it clean. I moved
in. It was not taken care of. So, I had
it replaced. I have to keep it clean
still because it's my responsibility as
my culbert. They're going to have to put
a culvert in or they're going to have to
have to replace their driveway every
time it washes out and it's going to be
on their dime. Now, if they they mess up
the road because they put in a culvert
and it messes up the road, then they're
going to have to pay for the repair of
the road as
well. And in any aspect of
that, the town Is it is it okay? We will
wait and see what happens with those
type of situations because there's
whatifs that are always out there and we
can plan. Now, if they didn't meet the
check mark, that's a that's on your case
to prove. And if they didn't do that
with your legal counsel, you discuss it
with them. You might have a case to have
them put something in it and it'll have
to come down from superior court
and or you're opening up the town for
suits
because if the planning board approved
this and we have water problems after
they do their building, I'm not going to
sue builder. I'm going to sue the town
because they let it take place and that
would be within your right. But why why
have this go that vicious circle?
Because there's certain things the
zoning board can get involved in, but
there's other things that we can't. So
this subdivision, which is the part
you're fighting, what you it's it is
what you're fighting. Basically,
I'm not fighting subdivision. They can
build 40 houses over there. It doesn't
matter. But what does matter is how it's
affecting our property, right?
which is all on the and that would have
to be with what like what I'm saying is
you have to prove to the courts that
part oh you can't have your thing
because there's there's special clauses
put onto it and you have the paperwork I
I mean right now just looking at it from
outside your lawyer told you to do the
right thing start here once here is done
you could call your lawyer today and say
they declined and then he would probably
have paperwork for you to sign to send
the superior to court almost instantly.
Mhm.
If they didn't meet their requirements,
what they're supposed
to again them not meeting their
requirements. It's the property owner's
requirements. If the planning board
pushed it on and said yes, it's good and
all
that. That can happen sometimes. Where
are those requirements document? because
it's not in the planning board
documentation that is filed in the town
because I got every piece of paper that
the planning board filed. There's
nothing in there showing me what erosion
control is, sediment control, flood
water damage, nothing. That's all been
left up to the builders who they hire to
make the plans. So, wow. So, so the town
is turning their responsibility over to
a builder and we don't have anything to
say about it.
So, the thing that I learned moving
here, this is the live for your die
state. That is how it goes. The town has
so much they can do, but I can't stop
you from doing whatever you want to do
on your property to a limit.
the them not if they don't if if you saw
plants that had swells in it and all
that if they don't uphold to that when
the the building inspector comes to
check that then they don't get a
occupancy permit which means they have
to spend more money to build what
they're supposed to. Okay. So where
where are those the plans the plans with
the swells and everything? We've not
It's very It's very common for
subdivision and site plans um for the
applicants to ask for waiverss and if we
look at it and we say this waiver seems
reasonable that they were not working on
then we waver. That is absolutely
amazing. Yeah. After that is absolutely
amazing considering a major concern the
citizens have is the water control. And
the planning board waves it. All these
people were there and the town was
derelct in their responsibility to the
citizens. Well, and that's where when it
hold on a second that's where when it
comes time for elections, you vote out
the members who are on the board. You go
out go and try and get someone else on
those boards. Seems like there's a fix
in here somewhere. There is. You have to
go to superior court because the the
planning or the zoning board has said we
can't see this because of the special
conditions.
That's just unfortunately what it is.
Superior court can step inside step and
get involved and they can put a stop to
it and then they can force all the other
subjects all the stuff to be done as
well. Okay. Now when I go file does does
this put
this show on
hold as far as them building and so on
and so forth? I don't know about with
Superior Court.
That is a very good question. That one I
do not. said it does.
If the lawyer says it does, I would
trust your lawyer because I I'm not a
legal adviser and I've never personally
gone to a superior court with because
this is going to be hard to deal with
after the fact. I mean, if they go ahead
and start building and they don't have
the proper water drainage and flood
controls and so on and so forth, we're
still stuck in the middle of it. And the
town is is basically the town is
responsible, not the builder. Yeah. Not
because the town has told the builder,
you've met all of our requirements. And
the builder offered everything. At the
bottom of that uh slip there, it says,
"We'll give you water studies, we'll
give you environmental impact studies,
and we'll give you anything you want."
That's what it says in the bottom of the
application. And no one asks for
anything. So the builder is not
responsible here. No, the builder would
still be responsible, but at the town,
the planning board waved it. Again, it's
it comes down to
if planning board is its own separate
board from this board.
They represent citizens of the town.
And if they didn't do their proper due
diligence within their job, come next
year, vote them out. That's just
unfortunately how it works with these
things. Just like if I don't do my job
in two years time or not three years
time, you could vote me out and have
someone else come in and should do it as
a
selectman. It's hard and it's a pain in
the butt. But but not every person
thinks the same way. I know Eie doesn't
think the same way as I do. I I use her
because she's sitting right in front of
me. She's not on any board. She's a town
employee. If I picked on anyone else,
they'd probably pick back.
But that's that is a and I think
personally I
think there is an issue with the whole
thing. But legal standpoint our hands
are tied. This board's hands are tied.
then a town government needs to take a
look at this
and you can file a a complaint against
it and drop it in the complaint box and
then it'll be read at the selectments
meeting and then we can have more words
with the planning board about it. But I
don't think there's much going to be
done from that side either because they
are their own governing board.
It's a hard look at any any water
studies any anything? No, we did not
look at any we were not provided any
water studies. But was somebody did
somebody wave them
and they did? Yeah. Yeah. Well,
when anyone submits a site plan or
subdivision, there's a checklist. Yeah.
And the planning boards have the
authority to wave them. So if someone do
we have um like uh if they're getting
town water or whatever then anything
regarding wells is usually waved because
it's not
and you wave the 12% grade that the
state of New Hampshire
requires. So that was like a kiss of
death for people at the bottom of the
house.
Y
I can't look at this. You can't I can't
Yeah. 12% grade and you wait that the
state of New Hampshire requires they
don't go any more than 12% grade on any
of that land and you waved it. Waved it.
So now they can do whatever they want
and a lot of people are going to be just
in a puddle and their houses are going
to be destroyed. And and Miss Fern,
that's that's I don't know what's going
to happen with her. All that water going
down the end of South Street is William.
There's no culvers. There's no drainage.
There's no sewers. There's no collection
point. Nothing.
You know, and water, that's one thing I
actually didn't think of. I There's the
culverts coming down after they make the
road. It's all It's all driveways.
That's what I was going to say. It's all
Is there going to be a basin? Anything
else? Or is it going to be right in my
driveway?
That's something we can't really answer
here, unfortunately. Yeah. Like I said,
we're we our hands are tied with this.
Yeah. Personally, we probably all are
agreeing with you guys, but legally, if
we would have said, "Yeah, the cabinet's
got to stop till this point," we would
open the town up even for more lawsuits
as well. So, the planning board never
gets a second look and the planning
board is the ultimate decision. We we
do. No. So, this certain subject, our
hands are tied. Other subjects we could
address and reverse because it's been
done several times in this town. So all
you have to do is say you have a
conservation area and you can't No, it's
not just a conservation area. There's
other aspects of it. What do you know if
they were
I can't without discussing legal matters
and we're not allowed to discuss the
legal matters that
was told to us by the town.
Go ahead. I guess we're in public. Let's
let's end the hearing and just have a
little short public comment session.
Okay, the hearing is over. Um motion
hearing.
All in favor?
I at 386 South Street. I bought it this
past August.
Um, not only was I shocked to see where
they're going to throw a house and
septic system right in my face
practically, um, I had my well tested
yesterday from the state because I've
been getting a lot of letters about the
lovely PAS
situation. Two wells in my neighborhood
have it in their well.
These people that are our
well, these people that are putting this
house within the range of my well and my
land, do they know about the PAS
situation? Because it is going to creep
over there and it's coming to my house.
I can't sell my house without disclosing
this. It brings my market value way down
and now they're putting another house in
a septic system in where it's soaked in
there all the time. When they drill,
they're going to make it's gonna frack
horribly. My h my property is going to
be zero. It's already full of water
where you you everybody let them on that
little peninsula right in front of my
house. They went they okayed a septic, a
well, and a house there.
Who suffers from that? Me. Yeah. But the
se the septic comes from the state,
right? Septic ar you know what? It
doesn't matter. I believe if the state
actually physically saw what they were
doing, they would laugh at it. It's It's
absurd. My house is going to be
nothing. Yeah. I've had to hire a
lawyer. I've had to call the state over
and over again. I've had people the
owners that used to own that house. They
won't get back to me because they didn't
tell me about this problem.
What are you supposed to do? Who cleans
it up?
Yeah, it says they
ran out of money ran out of money to
stop it. But they're still getting money
to clean it up, right? So tell me where
that money went. Where is it? Cuz the
state basically bought the state tells
us that they're they
they give the town of Troy money to
clean up the PAS. So that's not correct.
Um, well, and I I will give you I will
give you my town's email and you can
email me and I will get you in contact
with the dees and EPA person. Uh, you're
off of South and then so you're towards
um the corner. We're
half in Troy. That's what I thought. And
but my well is in Troy. Right. Your
wellro is in Troy. So our way in right
but let me figure out what my account
email is and
you can email me and I will send you the
information to the person you can reach
out to from the state and yes I see on
the plans for um subdivision that they
have to when they sell a piece of the
land they have to tell the person
disclosure disclose yeah they you're
darn right they do yeah so they they
they had planning board had them write
that in that you have to disclose that
the water is probably unsafe. Well, it
it could the water test may come back
fine today, but it goes to the ground
over time. It goes through the ground,
right? So, and it can come back fine
today, but not next. Email me and then I
will give you the contact information
for DESL EPA person because there what
you're talking about. I don't want to
get into it with the whole group, but
there is there is problems with the area
and what you're talking about there. The
town didn't get money. It was actually
the EPA spent the money itself to clean
that area and they do testing cost.
Okay, maybe they did. But trust me, with
how much it cost to clean that area,
they did not get the town money. It's in
the multi-million dollars. I've talked
to about every person there isn't
conquered the EPA everything. I have I
have a I had to say money's been
allocated.
Yeah, it's
the money is not it's to clean the the
dump site. That's all the money was
allocated. That's our house. That's our
house. You I know you live I know
exactly you're talking about where it's
at. That's why I said give shoot me an
email and I I'll reach out. I'll have
the person that I've talked to reach out
to you guys. Okay. So, they're just
going to go and tear up the earth in
front of my house and have all that crap
moved down my driveway into my yard.
Lovely. Are you going to go to court?
Just lovely. Love
Troy. I had enough of this.
I think I know where the conservation
area is because they spoke to it the
last meeting that they have. I think and
it was a little area in the middle of
all where you're going to build the
homes that they left untouched.
That's their conservation
in front of my house. He's got less
coverage than my driveway.
I really don't understand the town. I'm
kind of I'm kind of confused. We have a
government that's supposed to be working
on our behalf and as you spoke to, we
can't have this happening to our
neighbors. This this was already made
up. I got a letter from the town
administrator over a week ago saying go
hire go do whatever you're going to do
with your lawyer because we're not doing
nothing.
That's our town. Really? This board just
doesn't have any level of authority over
this situation.
I understand that, sir, but it's it's
just wrong. Just and that's that's
because of state law. It's not a Troy.
You know, if we heard it and if we made
a decision, then the subdividers going
to sue the town. You see the position
that we're in here. It's a lose-lose
with this board. Well, hell of the
subdividers, they're not living here
presently. That's right. We are. And we
all feel that way personally, too. But
it we have to go by these rules and
they're very strict and they don't allow
us wiggle room
because one little mess up on our part y
is a counter lawsuit and they make 10 20
30 times the amount because they could
win that easily. If I was you guys, I'd
pull all together and get an attorney.
We're not in public session anymore. So
I can say that
that's what I would do.
Okay. Thank you for coming. Sorry, Mary.
Sorry. Thank you for your time.
Thank you for listening.
Have a good rest of your day.
Some of those people have lived in this
town longer than any of us have been
here.
Okay. Any new business?
We have
another hearing tomorrow.
Um so
this important water
just just you know I mean I'm I'm nobody
in the grand scheme of things but that's
one piece that now you see how that
affects
every how that simple decision to not
review that. Yeah they all make
mistakes. I took you on planning what I
would do. It's ready. I can put it in
for public hearing for the 20th. Yeah.
20th of what? 20th. We have to do that.
I can do it a different day. No, I'm
good. I'm good with that. What day? I
think 20th of May.
Another
variance from Field
Stone. Um, and then there
is newish business. There's
[Music]
a public hearing happening tomorrow that
may come here later, but probably I
don't know. That's okay. It It's It
might come here later. I'm not sure.
Anthony Levik,
he's going to be coming
back. I I didn't look at it clearly, but
I
He now has this housing situation. It is
to convolute it.
Yes. Where the drinking place was. Yeah.
Okay. They hadn't met any of the
setbacks on that one. They had none of
it. Is it the same units or something or
so are we sending the examin paper just
and you know I don't know if I'm sure
you know cuz you know everything but um
some of these things can be post we can
postpone them we can put them off we can
do walkounds we can um we don't have to
decide you know like we're all on the
spot we can take it we can accept it we
can review it when when it's
appropriate. Yes. Yeah. No, I'm just
saying I don't know if I didn't know if
everyone realized that we we can have a
meeting on site if we can we have a copy
of their current their new application
versus their old application to see if
there's something substantially
different. If there's nothing else going
up to that here, there's nothing
substantive. I mean, there's just
Nice job on the on the butters on this
one. The one we just heard.
Nice job.
You're welcome.
Yeah. Let's go. Is everyone okay with
starting at 6:30 on the 20th? 6:30.
We should We should probably schedule
the the public hearings for 15 minutes
after the meeting starts. Yeah. So, do
it for 6:45. Yeah. for public hearing.
But the meeting notice will say yes. I
can do the
fancy thing that our amazing Carol does
where it's the the meeting begins at
during the meeting that begins at
instead of the public hearing is at
6:30. The meeting begins at 6:30 for
this day, the public hearing starts at
6:45. Yeah. But if I do the meeting
during the meeting that begins at 6:30,
it can be I consider it all part of the
public hearing. Once the chair opens it
up, we're in a public hearing. He that's
what as opposed to a meeting. He doesn't
open a meeting. No one no board chair
does. No, we all do. We all do. For a
meeting, not a hearing. We call order
every time. We say what time it starts
all at. You want you want to delineate
15 minutes between a public meeting and
a public hearing. Yeah. It gives us time
to it gives us time to clear out all the
pre- stuff and then gets us because
there's a lot of people who show up
slowly and trickle in.
Substantial change, not just
you want out of here, don't you? Yeah, I
think we all do. Every time you come
it's a little more disappointing what we
just man.
Yeah. Right. Is that how you're feeling
too?
So we don't new business besides that
one coming up communications. Miss Lance
So did I hear you someone say and you
agree that you're going to give us the
old? Yep. And the new. Yep. Okay. Cuz
I'd just for you guys to review not to
discuss to review. It would be helpful
if we had the old minutes too. Yeah. We
have we have to do that all at the
hearing. Yeah. Well, no. I'm saying
they've submitted it already. She can
give us any information she wants. Yes,
we can. But we can't discuss it except
at the hearing. You can look at it
yourself, right? Yeah.
Yep.
And you said the budget you're going to
check and see about reflecting on the
postage. Although this was pulled what
today?
No, four days ago. Should the postage
should have
There's
one. I think this one hasn't been
entered yet. There should be post should
be advertising for this, but for today's
meeting,
yeah, it it's a little delayed on that.
We're still okay. We have 100%. Yeah,
I'll I'll talk to Sarah and see just see
where we're at with her because she's
got to I know she's got to wait for it
to come in and get the charges and then
Exactly. this. So, it might not reflect
right now, but next meeting it might be
in the system.
Next meeting is in two weeks. It should
reflect hopefully. Oh, I don't know. I'm
being smart. I know. I I know how that
all works. What's the chair in the
select? Well, I saw all that stuff all
the time. I get it.
You
want new copy of this? This what size is
there? Actually, I need something
updated. There was some laws that
changed. There's a whole bunch of
changes that highlight stuff.
Yeah, the new stuff was added.
How many pages is it?
The whole time. Uhhuh.
Hard to say because it's not five. I
think
I can also send that. Do you have
another send? Yes. Then yes, please.
That makes it easier cuz then we want to
print it. It's not on the town's dime.
It's our own dime.
I'm going to put it on a tablet or on my
phone.
I like I like to have a printed copy as
chairs. Yeah, I like I like paper, too.
I must be our age group. No, you all I
take all my meeting papers home, so I
have quite a bit of
papers. You go through as many meetings
as I have to sit through. It's It's
interesting.
Boy, do I feel bad for these folks. Go
right in here.
I also understand the rules.
Um, we done. I'm going to adjourn the
meeting. Meeting is a motion to adjourn.
Don't even that one