8 25 2026

Speakers are labeled SPEAKER_N. This transcript is machine-generated.

Recording

the public meeting of Jackson
Select Board.
We've got
an agenda.
>> Was it right at the end of your
>> to address? Yeah, I got it right here,
too. [laughter]
And uh it's 3:30. So, we'll go ahead and
uh start with our typical way. I'll call
the meeting to order. We'll have a
pledge of allegiance.
I pledge algiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all.
>> All right.
First order of business is to
approve the minutes from our most recent
meetings. We'll start with the uh public
meeting from our August 11th
>> uh date. And um you and I were both
there. You had a chance to look it over.
>> I did. Thank you, Betsy, for the good
job on the minutes.
>> Yeah. You see anything you needed
editing or wasn't accurate? Okay.
Neither did I. So I'll go ahead and
entertain a motion to approve the
minutes as written from my Tuesday,
August 11th meeting.
>> I will make that motion.
>> Second.
>> All those in favor?
>> I
thank you.
And we have uh two non-public meetings
from August 10th and we voted to seal
both of those after the meeting. So go
ahead
initial
>> and I'll do the same.
>> Thank you. Okay.
>> Okay. First up um
is to
consider the appointment of a dep deputy
treasurer for the town uh Melissa Marott
and she's here today and uh more than
willing to serve. Melissa, first of all,
thank you for stepping up and
volunteering to serve in this uh
capacity.
anything in particular you'd like us to
know about you?
>> Um, well, I'm semi-retired from um an
office management position where I ran
payroll and I was supervisor of HR. So,
I think it'll be a fine fit and I'm
looking forward to it.
>> Excellent. Great.
>> Excellent. I think we are too from what
I've understood. Um, so I'll go ahead
and uh entertain a motion to approve
Melissa Marott as our town's deputy
treasurer.
>> So moved.
>> Second. All those in favor?
>> I.
>> Thank you, Melissa.
>> Yes. We're We're glad you're on board.
And no one's happier than Julie.
[laughter]
>> Julie and Penny.
>> Yeah. Right.
>> Thanks.
>> All right. Next up, Jackson Falls Bank
stabilization cost estimate report uh
that came through recently. Ben, you've
got the floor. You want to give us a
summary?
>> [clears throat]
>> Yeah. So, um, we've been working with
Sean Sweeney from Headwaters Hydraology
to prepare a plan for, uh, bank
stabilization at Jackson Falls. Um,
I guess brief summary of what his plan
is is that
um, boulders were placed in the upper
area of the falls.
I'm not sure the time period, but the
road agent did at one point put there as
sort of erosion control. Over time,
those have been pushed out the way and
no longer fulfilling the purpose of
redirecting water back into the river
channel. Um, that is a location of where
during high water events, they've sort
of split around. If you can envision the
the rock where the bench overlooks the
upper falls area,
>> the water can come around that and
essentially degrade all the walking
trails along that side.
>> Um
just over time it's we continue to have
high water events there it could
eventually endanger the road or so we've
just been looking at ways to maintain
the existing trail infrastructure there
and make sure that we don't lose any
road access. Um
his plan um is to utilize those existing
boulders in place. So it would involve
um creating a construction pad down from
the road and having a piece of pedary
equipment move those boulders into a
line and then anchor them into the
bedrock so they can't get moved and then
back fill against them so it forms.
>> I'm sorry for guys. Can you It's very
distracting. Thank you, Ben. I'm sorry.
>> Oh, wrong. Um,
so
>> sorry.
>> That essentially just I think that was
what was attempted before but without
any of the back fill. So this will give
us
a a stronger barrier there.
the the cost
is
when we were discussing it, we really
had no idea what this was going to cost.
Um,
but just knowing that it was going to
take place in the riverbed, so it would
require extensive wetlands permitting
and heavy equipment. Um,
the wetlands permitting is probably the
highest non construction cost, but it's
looking His cost estimates based on his
discussions with a builder who has done
similar work is around $86,000.
>> Is that just the wetlands permitting?
>> No, that is the total estimated project
cost.
Um
there are some contingencies built in
there and um
the the wetland permitting seems high on
our end just our experience doing other
wetland permitting. So, but I think just
because it was so extensive and going to
require so much work is going to need
additional monitoring to and I think
that was just his assumption working
with DDS on other similar projects.
>> Mhm.
yeah, 175 I noticed on between 175 and
the
uh 15% contingency. That's that's a big
chunk, but that's a a responsible
percentage to put out there for
contingency for sure,
>> less.
>> Yeah. So I think what
now that we have kind of a estimated
cost I think our next step is we would
like to hold a a public meeting to
address this and have the public come
ask any questions and coordinate having
Shawn come ask any tech answer any
technical questions and to kind of go
further into depth into his process
of doing that. Um there's um I guess
there's also additional there's a lot of
dead trees in that area that would need
to be removed. So I think there are
different levels of project that could
be achieved. So um I don't think we're
tied to any one particular plan at the
moment. So, I think we just needed to
get our heads around what those are
going to cost because we've been talking
about this for many years and we've kind
of taken all the lowhanging fruit of
things that we can do there to minimize
erosion without kind of addressing the
main thing which is the unpredictable
flows that we just don't have any
control over.
>> Ask a question.
>> Yeah.
Is there money in the in the
conservation commission now that could
help cover any of any or all of this
cost? I don't think there's a money
market account, right?
>> There are funds in the money market
account. There are funds in the uh the
current use
>> funds. I think
ideally we would like to preserve the
current use funds for land purchases um
>> in the future to put things under
conservation. Um
but I think that's probably where we're
going to have to find where we can we
can fund this because it is a little
outside of our budgets.
>> Yeah. No, I was just just wondering how
much is available um if any because I'm
sure that's going to be one of the
questions that's asked you, you know, if
the conservation commission has access
to $50,000. Would any of that be
appropriated for this or is that what
you're requesting or are you trying to
say that $86,000ish
would be would need to be raised for the
project?
I don't know the current balance of the
the money market account, but I think
that there would be enough to cover some
of that certainly.
>> Um, and there are there are funds in the
current use fund um to do that. So,
>> and then did you have timing or are you
still at the first stages?
>> We're at first stages. the uh contractor
that Sean uh consulted with has done
work uh similar work uh in other areas.
Uh Ken Kimble has reached out to those
clients and they they recommend this
builder
and kind of gave similar uh project
outcomes. So the be I don't think that
there's a lot of variability on the cost
if that's what we end up doing.
>> Gotcha.
>> I I certainly would like to see it go
out for bid. I don't think we would want
to necessarily rely on on one
contractor. I think that would be
responsible.
>> And I think the last question is what
type what time of year would something
like this have to be done?
>> Um I think probably in the fall just
when water flows are at the lowest,
>> right?
Thank you.
>> And to sort of offset any impact on on
public use
>> that's all. Thanks.
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. Can you just give us a brief
summary of the actual work that's going
to be done with all the machinery and
labor that you've budgeted and
what
>> Yeah. So if if you're if you're looking
at the plan schematics where it's
surveyed those those boulders that are
sort of currently sort of halfhazardly
sited in the riverbed those all get
pulled into the bank um and locked into
each other and then essentially
drilled and anchored into the bedrock
with a steel cable.
And then once those are anchored in
place, those will be back filled with um
rubble and top of top soil. And then all
the disturbed areas because there's
considerable areas of where the
blueberry saw that
>> all of that would get pulled up and
replaced with if not able to be
recovered
um
with a like material. So, I think that
that those blueberry mats of what that
we've been currently been using have
as long as they're watered in the first
little bit, they they've shown to be
quite resilient. So,
it would involve bringing in some
additional fill for that, but utilizing
what's there
to be the bulk of the the
wall.
>> And it does look like that's
What it's actually going to be
>> is a wall.
>> So,
the boulder arrangement is uh
going to place the boulders so that
they're exposed to faces and top
surfaces are smoothing forming a smooth
bank line with each boulder making
contact with the adjacent upstream and
downstream boulders.
>> Yeah. just so just to minimize the
ability for water to infiltrate into
that area. I
I don't know if that was the original
intention of placing those boulders
there for that purpose. I I imagine
that's what it was, but just because
they were not anchored and had no back
fill behind them, they just really
weren't able to
>> weren't adequate for the task.
>> And one more time, how are they going to
how do they get anchored?
They'll be drilled into the into the
face and then anchored into the bedrock
ledge there
with a epoxy and wire rope or or steel
stakes.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. And so those aren't like specific
boulders you've identified, but an
example of the type of that plenty that
are there that can be used.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I he did not anticipate
being able to bring in any additional
large folders. He not use everything on
site there.
>> So, the only thing I would be coming in
is the fill material and the topping
material.
>> Got it.
>> Not that we have a shortage of folders.
>> Yeah. I didn't want to put my name on
any of that.
>> All right. So, you're saying the work
would be typically done in the fall.
your your eye is
fall 27.
>> I think we we plan to present the the
plan at the next town meeting. So I
don't anticipate it's going to happen
>> before then. So I think that would be
our ideal timeline is next year.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. Because we obviously don't have
any kind of an expendable trust fund
that we can pull from this or capital or
fund or anything like that. So
that typically
points to a board article.
>> Yeah. So I I think after our public
meeting, which I think we'd like to hold
uh next month or in October, um probably
just more relative to Sean's schedule.
Um this is a busy field work time of the
year for him. Um but he's he's flexible
and he he's willing to come and make a
presentation. So,
>> are you going to try to get a second
quote before the public hearing?
>> Um,
>> well, I guess we haven't received any
quotes as a cost estimate. So, I think
>> If if we were to put it out to bid, I
think we would try to solicit an
official bid from the builder Ben
Konica.
>> And um see if we receive any other bids
for it.
>> Yeah. I just wonder if that would be
helpful to have before the um warrant
article because then you would really
have a better idea of the cost.
>> I don't think that we were I mean
the the only the only shocking costs on
that was the the wetlands permitting.
>> Which
what is probably 10,000 more than what
we did were required for what the
permitting for the river walk required.
This is a much more complicated project.
So,
>> yeah.
Okay.
anything else to add? I've got a couple
of one hand up in the back and I'll
recognize what, but I want to make sure
you kind of had your
>> update any questions update on there. I
don't have any more questions.
>> Good. Thanks for all the information. I
appreciate it.
>> B, your hand went up.
>> Yeah, I was just going to say I've uh I
know Sean and I've done a bunch of work.
I've done work with him. He's top shelf
to this type of work and that's a really
complicated section of river. That's
we've seen [snorts] it all and it's
falling there. I I would just say I
wouldn't veer from Sean if I had my two
cents cuz he's he's the guy probably in
New England that knows how to really do
this stuff
>> and for permitting he's super well
regarded at the ES. So if you're trying
to do permits in a certain amount of
time
to have on your side.
>> Yeah. Okay. experience with that.
Great. Yeah. And I can just tell by the
curve on your example that you put that
there are times that's got to be awful
powerful.
>> Yeah. I think we're all all aware of
what the river can do when it decides to
start moving. So
>> you see that it's like
>> Yeah, I know.
>> That's a lot of energy crashing into
that.
>> Yeah. And I I think in his his
assessment this was we had looked at
other places on the river. This was the
most effective place to kind of achieve
our goals um
without
armoring the entire bank there. So I
think the impact here will be quite low.
It will maintain the sort of scenic
character
>> that'll be nice.
>> It's not going to be a concrete barrier.
>> Yeah. So,
>> well, I think you're right on the money
with the idea of having a public
hearing.
>> Yeah. And uh I would encourage even if
it's you know less than half if you can
kind of examine
uh some of your funding resources so
that there's some skin in the game
>> that might go a long way even for a
relatively small percentage to
show the voters that this is important
and meaningful and worthy.
>> Okay. Uh, other than that, I I just
appreciate you comment and filling us in
on where you're at with it.
>> Thank you.
>> We target all the people that illegally
park there and use those funds,
>> that would be a nice one.
>> We have to increase the funds first.
>> Yeah. And then we'll have it contributed
to the conservation commission instead.
>> All right. Well, thank you. Welcome.
Appreciate it.
>> Uh, we'll move on. Um 4C Black Mountain
Ski Area Great Brook Wildcat River
followup. Kevin, you were going to
deliver a report today and we were going
to just kind of like get everything up
to date on where things are.
>> Sure. [clears throat]
I um was up there last Tuesday and we
obtained a um
administration um inspection warrant
from the court to allow me to go up on
the property cuz two weeks prior to that
um I asked Eric if we could take a look
and he was pretty good about usually in
the past going up and looking around the
mountain but he said absolutely not. So
anyway, so on Tuesday um I went to Black
Mountain. Eric wasn't there. Um I got a
hold of uh Tucker. Um and he was great.
He took me, you know, partway up the
mountain and from there I we decided to
walk the rest of the way. We kind of did
a clockwise counterclockwise um loop
around the mountain. And the first part
was a lot of work that was done last
year. And um just on the first corner,
there's about an acre of land there that
wasn't stabilized. I mean, there's
nothing growing on it at all. But up
around the corner, it's kind of a
straight shot all the way up towards um
uh up towards like a sugar shack, but
you could see like some vegetation
growing back, but they're really um it
needed to be stabilized. And then going
up through there, um there were multiple
water bars, and the water bars just go
off the trail into the woods. So they're
dumping sediment into let's I'm calling
it wetlands because it's all ferns and
it's very wet [clears throat] which same
thing that should be that silk should be
stopped there with check dams and sil
fence and whatever it measures. Um
when we got to the sugar shack
um that whole corner same thing was just
kind of bare. It was never stabilized.
Um then heading up to the Alpine Cabin,
um the Ascend Trail, which comes off the
top of the mountain, which is an
intermediate trail. It's always been a
um a troubled trail or whatever cuz
parts of it, there's a spring that kind
of just bubbles out of ground here, but
a lot of that still was not stabilized.
You can see it was all rooted. Um we
continued to the Alpine cabin. Um, some
areas were coming back, some areas were
stabilized, but there were still large
tracks that weren't stabilized. And I
they I noticed that they put some new um
water pipes, airlines in or snow making
I should say. And some of it's above
ground, some of it's buried. But the
sections that were buried, same thing.
It was all just brand new
um disturbed earth, not seeded or hay or
whatever. Common practice would be to
hand seed it and spread hay on it right
away after you're done. It would have
been growing within a week.
So, [clears throat]
um, and another good thing was on that
side of the mountain, they haven't been
using that to go up and down the the
mountain. They're like side by sides or
four-wheelers or um even an excavator.
But coming down on the left side, um I
forget the name of the trails, but we
started going down the um kind of the
left side of the mountain heading down,
which they there's been some work. Um
the road or the trail up to that point
of the mountain is heavily eroded by
four-wheelers and um excavators. And
um those roadways basically turn into
paths for the water just to travel right
down the mountain. Either dump out into
the woods um farther down the mountain
actually travels much farther down to
the parking lot. Um [clears throat]
there were same thing multiple water
bars that just dumped out into the
woods. Um there's a section near almost
near the bottom that um there was so
much erosion. It was about a foot deep
that went out into the woods and I
couldn't determine that was on Black
Mountain property or it was on um
someone's property up on Whitney Hill
loop road. Um I still haven't figured
out whose property it's on, but it's
just kind of the trail makes a turn and
all the sediment just goes straight into
the woods. Um, and then near the bottom
of the mountain, you can see, and you
can see it from the road, too, the path
that goes up the mountain is like
straight up. And on the right side, it's
just all exposed rocks. Every time it
rains, the water just gushes down that
part of the trail or path that they use
the four wheels to go up and goes into
that parking lot.
>> And once we were in the parking lot, you
could still see visible ponding of
sediment where stone was placed over the
last year. Um, which the water just kind
of takes a shortcut to the parking lot
and the deposit sediment and some of it
continues across the road as well.
I mean that's basically a you know
summary of my my visit there.
>> Yeah. I saw what you submitted and thank
you for taking the time to do that.
Yeah.
>> Real quick question. What's a water bar?
Um, so if you have like a steep slope or
any kind of slope and the water wants to
travel straight down the mountain, you
want to kind of slow that water down and
and change the direction. Um, and kind
of go across the trail and you're
slowing the velocity down the water,
too, but still have sediment in it. And
then you're dumping it either into the,
you know, left or right side. But before
you deposit that water, you should some
kind of filter system to collect that
sediment so it's still on the trail
system and not dumped out into the
woods.
>> Any other questions?
>> Okay, Bur, are you been involved in
this? Uh do you have anything to add to
uh
uh Kevin's report?
>> Uh probably not too much today. I just
kind of I haven't been to the site or
done anything other than read the
report.
>> Today here the report today I should
say.
>> So yeah. No, I guess
>> great.
>> Well, you know, we've seen a huge amount
of above the mountain and those things
and so it's not surprising that there's
disturbance further up the mountain too
than we just can see from the base of
the mountain.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
Um, any Black Mountain representatives
are here today. Eric, Chris, either one
of you have uh any comments to make on
this item.
>> Yeah, I think I'll, you know, without
getting into the minutia of it and
debating it, I think we can, we can do
that in another forum. Um, I think it's
important to say that, you know, under
no circumstances have we ever refused an
inspection at Black Mountain. Townzoning
requires you guys to make an
appointment. Kevin quite often comes up
with comes up with, you know, not having
an appointment and we do everything we
can to accommodate. Um, and so, you
know, that is the town's own rules
require that. Uh, when you came up that
day, I did spend over an hour with you
and we did walk around. We simply didn't
have a vehicle to drive up the mountain
at that time because they were all used
elsewhere. Um, but never did we ever
decide that there wouldn't be an
inspection. And I think that the town's
escalation in use of, you know, seeking
an administrative warrant is is almost
comical. Uh it's something that we'll
deal with separately. Um uh you know,
Kevin, you know, threw out the word
wetlands. I don't think Kevin's a
wetland scientist. We're in a position
to delineate wetlands. Uh as long as the
uh water bars are in sort of that topic,
water bars are an erosion control
mechanism that we've really cleaned out
at Black Mountain. uh they had been, you
know, not maintained for many, many
years. Uh and Kevin is right that the
goal is to slow the water down. Um and
certainly we've done a really great job
at fixing all of those things. As far as
the longest established mountain road,
it is a gravel road. It is a dirt road.
It has a lot of gravel on it. Uh we
constantly maintain it. It's a
historical regress up the mountain. It's
it's not erosion issue. And so I guess,
you know, again, we have differing
opinions. an actual engineer and the
building inspector and but certain
things we don't disagree about is is
[snorts] the interpretation of the
zoning as we indicated in our appeal to
your fine and those items. Um we believe
the towns overstep their boundaries. Uh
we very much predate uh zoning and this
is a zoning ordinance that you find us
with. Black Mountain's been around since
1935. Zoning started in 1971. the site
disturbance issue came out in 2009 and
it was uh you know the notice of intent
in 2025 was changed. So uh again our
appeal speaks for itself uh and we'll
take it to the zoning board and if we
need to proceed beyond that to the land
use court we'll do that. But I would say
in general we do not agree with the
town's representation of the facts. We
do not think the town has followed its
own rules and regulations and it's
something now that we're going to have
to seek adjudication in in the court
system. [snorts] So, I don't know if
there's anything you want to add to
>> Yeah, I I will and I I think I back up
and say, you know, this is a ski area.
It's been there for a long time. Uh
there's longstanding drain drainage
management uh issues with any ski area.
Uh there's quite a bit of deferred
maintenance including on the drainage uh
issues on this mountain. Uh and Black
Mountain has hired an engineer. It has a
plan in place and implementation is
ongoing. Um that is what the even if the
ordinance applies, that's what the
ordinance requires. I understand that um
our engineer uh Brian
from Verdantis uh is a is a qualified PE
who works at one of the largest firms in
the country that does environmental work
uh and and site work and deals with
drainage issues all over the state and
across the country. Uh
that's who Black Mountain hired to uh do
its plan. I use that language. There's a
plan in place and imple implementation
ongoing. That was Bob's response to Jim
Inennis uh and what the town was doing
on its uh settlementation issue. Uh but
that's what that's really what the
ordinance requires even if it applies to
black. Um I
have a statement from Mr. Walsh that was
included in the u uh appeal. Uh but he
says that work is ongoing and Black
Mountain's primary focus right now is
stabilization and reveation of disturbed
areas to reduce and prevent sediment
transport from the site. Efforts have
been directed towards establishing
permanent vegetative cover through
seating and related stabilization
measures. Lax GM has purchased hydro
seating machinery for this purpose and
for future vegetation. We are certain
that early springtime seeding coupled
with a typical spring rains will
establish ve vegetation at a much
quicker rate uh than was possible for
this year. As vegetation becomes
established, root systems will provide
long-term erosion control necessary to
significantly reduce sedimentation and
migration during rainfall events. Uh
this is the most effective and
sustainable solution for conditions
observed upon the mountain.
it's it's five more paragraphs long
about about what his efforts are and
what Black Mountain's efforts are uh
based upon his recommendations. But
again,
your ordinance requires an engineer to
come out and establish a plan and have
the property owner work towards that
plan. So even if this ordinance applies
to Black Mountain, they have a plan in
place and implementation is ongoing
as the town's doing with its own
sedimentation issue. Uh so I would add
that um I understand that uh Kevin who's
not an engineer in Burr may disagree
with some of Brian's findings and
recommendations. However, your ordinance
says
and requires only what is reasonable.
And I'm an attorney. I disagree with
Jason all the time. I'm I believe I'm
having I have a reasonable argument
about things. He has a reasonable
argument about things. That applies to
engineers as well. But it does not
require the property owner to follow
Burr. What Burr's version of re uh uh
reasonable is or Kevin's version of
reasonable is. It's you hire an
appropriate official, you implement a
plan and and then you try to implement
that plan as fast as possible given the
conditions on the ground which again
we're talking about 20 to 30 years of
deferred maintenance on a drainage
system that was really designed back I
think in the 1970s
uh the last last goround. U so I'll I'll
move on from that. Uh the second is yes,
we have appealed uh the notice of
violation. Um our first argument in that
is that this is a zoning u zoning
ordinance. Black Mountain's business
long predates both the zoning ordinance
as a whole, but also uh your adoption of
a site disturbance ordinance u and the
town under the the New Hampshire
constitution and uh statute and the
language of the zoning ordinance itself
can't apply the site ordinance, the site
disturbance ordinance to Black Mountain
whose use uh a ski area pre-existed. Uh
the ordinance uh
trail work is part and parcel of running
a skier. Um water management is part and
parcel of running a ski area. Having
roads and driving uh four-wheel uh
vehicles up a mountain is part of a ski
area. And certainly they do the best
they can and have an engineer in place
to help them make every make the
drainage appropriate on the on the site.
Uh but this is part of part of running a
skier and part of having a ski area have
large open fields and uh excavation is
required on a weekly if not daily basis
uh to maintain a ski area. Uh it's like
if you had either uh a forestry use or
an agricultural use. Both of those also
require water bars and you don't require
either of those to come before this the
zoning board and uh deal with uh the
site site disturbance ordinance when
they're in the normal course of their
business. Uh third, I'll address quick
that Eric addressed it, but I'll address
quickly the administrative warrant.
Again, both uh the statute and uh your
ordinances require uh the town before it
comes on a property to set up an
appointment. Uh I thought when we left
this meeting that that was the plan that
people were going to come and propose,
let's meet on site with engineers. Uh,
and then the next thing I know, we got a
a notice of violation where Jason swore
that
uh that that Black Mountain refused to
come on the property. I didn't get a
call. I didn't get a call from Jason. We
didn't get a call to set up an
appointment. Uh,
that's again a step beyond where we
should be. Uh, so with that, I the
appeals under the appeals outstanding. I
believe that stays anything that this
this board can do, but you can talk
about Jason with that and instead of uh
you know while we're working on the
issues on the mountain, we can um deal
with the administrative side too. But
again, as I said in the last meeting, we
should be focusing on uh fixing the
issues with the entities that have
jurisdiction over this matter, which is
dees if we get to an alteration training
permit. So thank you.
Excellent. Anybody that
hasn't commented on this uh want to make
a comment?
Anybody that has commented on this want
to make a second comment? And again, we
like these to kind of be a little more
brief and
>> initial comment. Go ahead, Kevin.
>> Um we were supposed to meet within that
twoe period and early were very
available. and nothing happened. And I
actually made phone calls to your
engineer,
>> Brian Walsh.
>> And yes, and he said that Eric wasn't
even answering his phone call. Actually,
last Friday, now I'm trying to think how
many Tuesdays we buy now. It's almost a
month. Last Friday, I left a message on
Brian's work number and his cell phone
number. please call me because I wanted
to see if he was doing anything up on
the mountain after my Tuesday's visit.
Never heard back from his the engineer.
Uh, another thing, um,
that mountain there's there's Google
photos of that mountain from
2018, 2000, 2023.
Every trail that you can see is totally
green. and understand that you have to
work on a trail and maintain stuff. I
got 40 pictures on here. I think I maybe
took pictures at a different mountain. I
I'm not sure because every picture on
here shows whole areas unseeded in stuff
that they dug up last year. So, I don't
know you know what what they're talking
about. Put it that way. Another thing,
we're willing to meet you at any time.
You can get your expert, your engineer.
Let's meet and let's go over it. Birdie
can walk the same mountain as Eric and
your engineer. You want to bring a
lawyer? We'll bring a lawyer.
>> Kevin, address us.
>> So, okay.
>> No, I mean, you can continue speaking
about address dress.
>> Oh, sorry. So, anyway, um,
you know, I think they're talking about
two different areas. I'm I'm really not
sure cuz there's nothing going on
besides the water bars that they said
they put in, which they did, but they're
just blowing silt out into the woods.
And I think the definition of wetland
um is places where it's wet, ferns,
roots exposed. There's a lot of those
areas up there in that mountain.
So, I know I'm no expert, but and it's
funny, there was an expert who actually
complained about Black Mountain, and I'm
not going to mention any names, but
someone that everybody uses to delin the
wetlands, and he even complained about
what's going on up there. So, um
I think the thing to do is, like I said,
they want to meet with their experts and
our experts. will go over it cuz their
their view of things are much different
than my view and Burfield
>> and I think you know a meeting on site
that might that might help things.
>> So that's all I got to say.
>> Bur your hand went up.
>> Yeah. I I guess I I guess I want to
somewhat echo what Kevin's saying is is
we've been trying to meet I did try to
meet get have the meeting after our
first meeting and you suggested let's
meet before the next meeting. Let's get
me and everybody share pictures and
figure out you know at least identif a
agree on what the problem is right the
first step and Eric specifically said
that basically that was not going to
happen and it would happen on his own
schedule or something along those lines.
He wasn't going to work on the towns the
town schedule. That's specifically what
he told me. But a lot of the information
that Chris presented I think is
inaccurate. Um I just I could go through
one by one by one items of those. I'm
not going to take the time to do that. I
think our our solution here is to get
together and work on the problem instead
of hiring lawyers and then we're going
to drag this out into September for a
zoning board meeting and then if they go
to the the state permit that's going to
drag it out further. This is right now.
Regardless of what their engineer says,
September is the ideal time to grow
grass. It's waiting until spring again
another year makes no sense to me
whatsoever. We're going to go through
this all over again with rainfall
events. And if you look I'll just one
side comment is if you look at the per
the plan that was submitted to the town,
they are not following their own plan.
So it's and if there's work being done
snow making and other stuff up the
mountain that's not I believe listed on
the plan or the permit that's outside of
that work that again they're not
following according to this what I'm
hearing today they're not following the
the plan. So,
I guess I just wish we could get
together, get Brian and me and we get
dees, get army, get sort of EPA to come
in. We'll all look at it together and
make a decision on on what needs to get
done and where we're we're about.
>> Okay, Eric.
>> Um, we're pretty consistent uh
communication with DES and the
authorities that have jurisdiction over
this. Um, I guess we disagree that there
is a problem. We disagree if there's any
jurisdiction by the town on this and I
agree that we'd like to get together,
but I think the administrative warrant
by the town and that escalation um has
set that ship down until we get to the
ZPA at this point. Um so that's that
that I think is is the reality right
now. Um you know, and it it takes uh two
sides to put in a good faith effort and
we we just haven't seen that from this
group pretty consistently. So, something
we've documented uh in writing and um
you know, we can't we can't be in a spot
where we're arguing about whether or not
we refused access to the property when
we didn't and [clears throat] you guys
going to the court system and seeking
administrative warrant unnecessarily and
and frankly, you know, bending the
reality of what we believe is going on
out there. So, I think it's it's in the
process that it's in. Uh, and I would
expect future communication from from
Chris uh, in regards to a lot of the
things that were talked about today.
Anything you want to add?
>> I suppose I would just add I don't know
why the town is wasting money on this
issue where dees clearly has
jurisdiction.
Black Mountain's engineer is dealing
with dees on this issue. Has a plan.
Perhaps some things
haven't gone as quickly as Burr and
Kevin would like them to go. But again,
our position is they don't have
jurisdiction over this. So why the town
is hiring Burr to go out and deal with
the dees problem and spending the town
taxpayers money on that, I don't know.
Uh we are working with dees to
facilitate the plan as fast as it as it
can go and we'll abide by any uh dees
recommendations. But again, this isn't
the town's fight to fight, and I'm not
sure why they're doing that. Thank you.
>> All right. I think I took everybody
twice. Uh did you have anything you want
to add?
>> I don't. Thank you. And so just to kind
of uh recap where we're at right now is
uh that you've filed an appeal to the
zoning board of adjustment and that's
what you see as the next step uh at
black. Is that correct? Are you guys
interested in still trying to get Brian
Walsh to meet with Kevin and meet with
Burr and walk the site, see if we can
get somebody from dees there, or is that
all going to be on hold now until the
zoning board uh has a look at the matter
and weighs in? We're at the zoning board
level now and I'll I'll make that
determination and uh uh we'll continue
to work with Brian and on our plan and
on our daily erosion control and
continue to be in contact with EDS. But
uh I think the escalation from the town
on both fines and the administrative
warrant both ridiculously unnecessary
and I echo Chris's comments on a waste
of time, town money and resources. Um
we'll we'll have to follow the process
now at the EDA.
>> Okay. Excellent.
Everybody's weighed in. There really is
no motion to make or decision to make on
our end right now. Uh the appeal to the
zoning board of adjustment
uh has to run its course. Uh I don't
know if anybody's heard anything from
ZDA on this yet, but it's pretty short
order. So they'll get back to uh respond
to that when they can.
>> 4C in the books. Uh,
unless there's somebody. We do have a
number of people. I I see Attorney Lick
is on Zoom. Uh, Kevin Kelly, is there
anybody on Zoom that really wants to uh
uh weigh in on the Black Mountain issue
or are you all here for more the
Eastfield and and other issues?
>> Eastfield for me. Thanks.
>> Yeah. Right. Okay. Well, um, that's
where we are right now.
uh is the Eastfield Road agreement
that's been put in place. Attorney Lick,
do you want to kind of give us a little
um update on how those you represent see
this agreement?
>> Yes, I'm happy to uh to share um what I
know. Anyway, uh so town council Jason
Dennis and I have been in discussions
for the last several weeks trying to
hammer out an agreement with respect to
Eastfield Road. Um to remind everybody
the context of maybe a month or two now.
Um we were there before you in the
question of what the status of East
Field Road is and whether it needed to
be reconstructed or changed um to
reflect one of the original plans for
the development way back when. Um and um
as I understood it, the town engineer
was uh considering that as a a
requirement. Um we were suggesting that
it was not necessary and that the board,
the select board had agreed to
alternative uh plans as it's basically
been um constructed by John Fischer back
in 2015. It's about a decade or so now.
And after that meeting, the goal was to
talk uh among council to see if there
was a way to sort of thread the needle
and work out an arrangement where the
town felt comfortable that if the road
was not um upgraded to the old spec,
whether or not the town would
nevertheless allow the the the road to
remain in place. if there was an
agreement reached that essentially in my
shortorthhand um made sure that the town
was not liable for the road or
responsible for it etc. So that was the
discussion uh between attorney Dennis
and I. Um I've shared uh this agreement
with the board um in in concept photos
in agreement. We um last I heard I
shared it with Jason um and then we
heard this was going to be discussed at
today's meeting. So that's as far as I
know since that time. Um, as of
yesterday, I believe it was, um, I
received notice that one of the
association members, Eric Bogenson, is
challenging the board, uh, for the
association's authority to enter into
this agreement. Um, we can work on that
internally between myself and Mr.
Wilkinson's council, not Chris who's
there tonight, but a different attorney,
Roy Tilsley, uh, who has a different
firm is one that reached out on this.
So, I'm happy to talk with Roy. What I
told him, um, in response to his
concerns relaying Mr. Mobson's um,
discussion was that I'd be happy to talk
with the board about all of this. But
again, this is really just an we were
trying to reach a negotiation
ne negotiate a resolution with the town
that saved the board from and that the
association from incurring significant
expense to basically reconstruct the
road that that as I understood it the
association doesn't believe is necessary
while making sure the town is
comfortable with that its liability is
protected. So, my suggestion for you
folks today is obviously talk with
attorney Dennis, but um if you're
comfortable with it, talk with him about
signing or not, and then I'll have to do
work on my end about whether the board
signs or has to do some kind of internal
meetings, etc., uh to get authority to
sign. So, there you go. That's my
summary.
>> Thank you. And um it will be signed by
the high pastures at Black Mountain
Property Owners Association President
David Kenny. And if that is the D
Kennedy uh on the on on the Zoom call,
uh Mr. Kennedy, if if you can hear me, I
know you're on mute, but do you have
anything to add to the discussion?
Uh, no. I think Attorney Lick uh has
sort of explained where we're at at this
point. Um, unfortunately
um somebody from the uh board of
selectman's office gave Mr. Moguson
incorrect information
regarding the settlement agreement that
was being proposed. I'm not sure why um
somebody from the town did that in the
first place, but unfortunately
um the information that he got was your
first version that uh was submitted to
the uh high pastures board which we
immediately
uh rejected
and but Mr. Moguson has taken that and
sort of run a muck with it um through
the association and so we're sort of uh
need to as attorney Lick stated sort of
need to um decide internally how we're
going to move forward.
>> Okay. Thank you uh for coming on
weighing in. Is there anybody else uh
joining us remotely that wants to weigh
in on this topic or are you all just
general observers or here for something
different? If if if you do, now's the
time to go off mute and uh identify
yourself and let us know how you feel.
Um not seeing anybody doing that.
Anybody in the room want to make a
comment?
>> Thanks, Bob. I you know I would I would
just take issue with the run a month
piece. Obviously I saw the uh Jason
Dennis by the way shared with Chris the
agreement uh a few months ago. So that's
that's where it was shared through Jason
shared directly with Chris. Um and in
that agreement and I understand the
current agreement that's been circulated
the the board is looking to seek
indemnification of the town um which is
not a budget item. It is something that
we believe requires twothirds vote of
the association. So when I put out the
proposed agreement again on your agenda
it said it would be signed today and
that's all that I really knew about it.
Put it out to the association we
received about seven different
association members some of them with
multiple voting rights and lots that
took issue with it because the
association was not aware of the the
settlement agreement in any capacity. Um
so I'm looking forward to getting
together with the association having the
board present the logic. Um there are
some pretty big things around binding
individual lot owners and the
identification of town uh that legally
require a twothirds vote from the
association so that any agreement the
association enters in with the town is
binding and the town can rely on it and
vice versa. So that I I think it can get
cleared up. We just need better
communication from the board to the to
the homeowners out there.
>> And when you say board, you're talking
about the association.
>> The association board. Yeah. Thank you.
All right.
>> Think there's a reason to sign it today
if we're waiting on the
board or do we how do you feel about
that?
>> Well, I think uh the I think the
attorney and uh and president are are
feeling like they do have the authority
to enter into this agreement uh with the
board of selecting. And I think once the
document
is signed, if we make a motion and and
approve it and and sign it, then it
becomes a public document. So that can
kind of uh
>> okay
>> clear anything up as far as
misunderstandings at that time.
>> So if we make a motion and sign this
today, it is up to the association and
that board to sign it to execute the
contract and we'll wait for them
regardless. Yeah. Okay.
>> And I and I think that, you know, it may
be that Mr. Kennedy waits for a meeting
that ends up with a twothirds majority
support or before he signs it or or
whatever they do on their end with
attorney lick. That would all be
>> that would all be their their decision
to make,
>> right? But I think that I like the fact
that we have been working on this
document and felt like it covered all
the concerns
and uh if there are other concerns that
haven't bubbled up and had an
opportunity to kind of impact the
document, then I'm sure we'll hear about
it down the road, right?
>> Um so I'll go ahead and entertain a
motion to uh approve the agreement
regarding Eastfield Road as it stands
before us today. I will make that
motion.
>> I'll second the motion.
>> Anything more you want to share,
Barbara, before we
>> No, I hope we can come to an agreement
on this.
>> Great. All those in favor?
>> Can I ask a question before you vote? I
I wonder if Jason I know Jason was on
vacation, so I don't know if Jason has
seen um
Attorney Tillsley's concerns with the
agreement.
>> I don't think he has.
>> So I I don't know.
>> Yeah, I don't think he has.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> And I I'll chime in on that. My
understanding as well is that Jason's on
vacation and not in the office until
tomorrow.
>> So I I fully do not expect that he has
heard about the concerns or that Mr.
Mogensson's um position that the board
has no authority to enter into it. So
for for your purposes, obviously you
folks can uh sign and agree uh in in
whatever way you wish, but I just want
the board to be aware that whether the
association is able to sign as expected
is going to be based on likely
discussions among the members and maybe
litigation. It just depends on how that
goes. So, u I I appreciate you folks and
uh Jason's great efforts to work this
out and I'm hoping that we can get to
that position um in the end. So, thanks
again.
>> Yeah. And understood. And so, it's going
to have to be signed and uh un and
recognized by both parties. Uh we're
here today with a motion on the floor to
approve it on our end. And so if that
motion passes, then we will go ahead and
sign it and then the ball will be in uh
in in the in the Eastfields uh
homeowners association group.
>> Any we made motion and seconded that?
>> All those in favor? Hi.
>> Hi.
>> And if there needs to be more input um
on the homeowners association
um side because
of misunderstandings or miscommunication
or not going through proper channels,
then I'm sure we'll hear about it. And
if it doesn't get signed by both
parties, then it's it's not in effect.
Thank you for your apprec appreciate
your time and thank you for your uh
understanding.
>> Well, thanks for joining us today,
attorney
and Mr. Kennedy. Thank you both.
And so we will go ahead and uh move on
to item 4, cemetery lot agreement.
We have a hundred uh
dollar cemetery lot agreement from
Thomas Kahi
and the lot number is 750-
C and this is the village cemetery.
Um so uh entertain a motion to sign
>> I'll second it. All those in favor? I
>> Okay, very good. Thank you.
And the
building permit revisions are up next.
We've got a couple of uh
ideas for revising and simplifying our
our building permit applications. Kevin,
you want to give us a a rundown on
these? Did you work with uh Betsy on
these?
>> Sure. The um
in the past we just had one general
building permit and you describe what
work you were going to do or whatever.
And we have a lot of um
generator permits and simple electrical
permits like someone's just putting in a
couple hours with a new circuit or and
same thing plumbing. Um, you know,
they're just doing a uh changing some
bathroom stuff out or whatever, like in
the wall.
>> Um, so we figured that we'd make some
individual permits. It would make it
much easier
um for the trades person or the
homeowner to fill out and probably
easier on our end to um instead of this
the whole entire packet that has, you
know, sight disturbance in it and
>> um just a lot of other stuff, you know,
plot plans and which aren't needed and
stuff like that. So, and I think you
guys got copies of all of them.
>> Yeah. So, I think we we've worked on
them for many many weeks and revised
stuff and um I guess the final copy kind
of think that's got to work.
>> Yeah. No, it seems to make sense. I
don't know if you patterned this after
other towns or not or even
>> We did. We did look at a lot of the
towns. Yes.
>> So, just just to get ideas. It's a
typical
>> but it is a it is a
>> it's just an electrical piece you're
doing. You just fill out the one page
electrical.
>> Same with gas plumbing.
>> Sure.
>> Uh same with generator.
>> Yep.
>> And sign is the fourth one. Yeah.
>> And
>> sign permit.
>> What do you uh what do you got to add?
>> I just um I had asked the question that
the original building permit if you're
doing a full buildout still is the same.
This is for the other stuff that's just
minor instead of that. Yeah. And it's I
think that'll make things like you said
easier for all parties involved. So
>> fantastic. I love a one pager, too.
Keep it simple. All right. Well, if
you're satisfied with it and I looked at
it and I'm satisfied with it, I'll go
ahead and
>> entertain a motion to approve the
uh new building uh permit.
just yeah that that are in place the
revisions that have been made.
>> I'll second. All those in favor?
>> I very good. Thanks again.
>> And uh Julie, thank Betsy.
>> For for all the work that she put into
that as well.
>> Um and there is not a town hall road
update. We're still trying to catch up
with Mr. Inis who at this point uh will
be back from vacation at some point in
September.
Um so and this has all just been a tip
that between government furlows and
vacations and unreturned emails. Uh
here's where we still are with it. But I
know uh Jimmy's pretty confident about
what's going on up there, but they are
going to have to wait for uh Mr. It has
to be on site also. So, that's been
tabled.
No short-term rental conditional use
permits. Uh couple of uh building
permits. Uh speak of the devil.
Generator, new window, replace stairs.
Anything about these you want to weigh
in on, Kevin?
>> No. Those are pretty straightforward. Y
>> no driveway permit. Takes us right to
public comments. Um, anybody care to
make a a a comment in the room today on
anything that's uh been addressed so far
or anything that wasn't on the agenda?
Very good. Um, we've got some upcoming
meetings. If you do happen to think of
something you want to weigh in on,
you'll have a chance uh
but not until after state uh primary
election day, which is uh Tuesday,
September 8th. And that'll be from 8:00
a.m. to 7:00 p.m. voting at the Whitney
Center. And therefore, the board will be
changing its normal uh meeting days on
Tuesdays in September from the second
and fourth Tuesday to the third and
fifth Tuesday. So that makes our next
meeting se Tuesday, September 15th at
3:30.
And then we will also have a meeting on
the 5th of Tuesday, which is Tuesday,
September 29th.
Another reminder for uh folks that the
Conway hazardous waste day is coming up.
That is on Saturday, September 26th at
this transfer station between 8 and
11:30 a.m.
Is that for me?
>> Okay, I'll take it.
Um, very good. Uh, no non-public meeting
scheduled today.
>> Final thoughts, Julie?
>> Um, Jason Dennis would like to have a
conversation with you guys. We can
either make motion going to non public
or
>> Oh,
>> is he back or is he
>> No, it's a phone. It's a Zoom call.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Love them. Love them. Thanks for coming,
Melissa. You bet. Thank you. Um,
>> I will make a motion to go into
non-public.