Town of Troy Planning Board Meeting 5/7/2025

Speakers are labeled SPEAKER_N. This transcript is machine-generated.

Recording

All right, we are live.
Is Zoom fired up? It is about
[Music]
Everything's working.
I believe it is, but it might be only
running off of the computer. Um,
speaker, just so you know, we'll open
7:03 town board on May 7th,
205. First thing on our agenda is Todd.
Let's open up the select meeting. Yeah.
same time at 7:04.
Okay. At the same time. So select a
quorum. So we open their
meeting
tonight and then is it corner?
That's me. Yes. Did I get the last name
right? What is you did? You did. Y All
right. Well, I guess you have the floor.
Okay, great. Yeah.
Um, I looked at the agenda today. I
looked I wasn't sure if I was first
first up, but Well, we figured we'd get
you in. I appreciate that. Yeah, I
appreciate that. Um, so good evening
everyone. Again, my name is Todd Heroer,
executive director of Southwest Region
Planning Commission. And Carol reached
out
um about a few weeks ago and mentioned
that you all are doing some work on or
considering doing some work on a master
plan update. So, I think that's what I'm
here to talk to you about.
Um, so it might be helpful for me just
to understand where you are in that
process. So we're kind of starting the
process. We did a couple surveys, kind
of get the idea going, but we're trying
to figure out what the next step for us
is, whether we need to hire someone if
there's outlets out there for us to, you
know, dive into the because obviously
none's here done before. Yeah. Carol,
um, she provides guidance. I'm trying to
figure out what the next jump is here,
whether we're going to outsource to
ourselves. She said you were very
knowledgeable and we had you come in
kind of tell us what you could either
help us or point us towards. Yeah. Yeah.
I certainly can lay out some options and
I brought um a little handout here that
um lays out what a master plan is and
you know what is responsible for
developing it, what's the process. Um, I
might skip over that part. Um, yep.
And get to the different approaches that
you might consider as you're um starting
the process. So really, it's page number
two. This list here um provides just
some general recommendations that um I
like to provide communities uh who are
considering an update to their master
plan. Um, and maybe it just be helpful
for me to run down this list. Um, so
number one, the first thing I like to uh
advise uh planning boards is to to plan
for action. So we don't plan to plan,
right? We plan to do ideally. Um, so uh
just being clear in your master plan.
Um, you know, after you've collected
input from the community and have had a
discussion about what your goals and
vision look like, what are some specific
actions that either the planning board
will take or other local committees will
take? And um, try to be as specific as
possible. What sort of time frame are
you looking at? Who's the lead, you
know, group or organization?
um what uh priorities are those actions
setting? You know, you have limited time
and resources, so figuring out which
things makes the most sense to tackle
first is um always a good thing. Um and
the second thing I like to tell towns is
the action items that can include both
baby steps and big grand ideas, right? I
think a mix of both is good. um uh you
know, you might have some goals that are
longer term and that's okay, but I think
it's also good to include some shorter
term steps that um help demonstrate to
yourselves and the community that
progress is being made on the master
plan. Um third recommendation, less is
more. Um so right sizing the master plan
to something that is usable. um
accessible to the general community and
something hopefully you all will
reference on a regular basis. If it's a
long if it's a big brick of paper, it's
most likely going to be used as a doors
stop. If it's nice and slim, it's
something that hopefully you'll be able
to use on a regular basis and track how
are we setting out to achieve what we
said we wanted to achieve.
Um, fourth recommendation,
uh, presentation matters. So, you know,
making it clear and visually
engaging. Graphics really help, uh, tell
a story. Um, and, uh, summarizing the
plan in something that's really
digestible for, um, the general public.
Um, and along with identifying actions,
it's also good to celebrate
accomplishments that uh the community
has made in recent history. So that
could entail looking at uh your previous
master plan and uh identifying, oh, we
actually did check that box and we have
made progress. And really celebrating
those wins is um a great thing to
incorporate into a master plan.
Um, number six on this list, uh, using
the master plan as an opportunity to
facilitate conversation across municipal
committees,
um, or departments. So, a good example
of this is we're actually working with
the town of New IPS switch right now on
their master plan update, and I'll be
going down there in a couple weeks to
have a conversation with all of their
department heads at their uh department
head meeting to talk about things like
community facilities, investments the
town wants to make, priorities that
might span different departments in the
community. So, it's a good opportunity
to have discussions like that.
Um and similarly similarly to making
connections uh among people making
connections between uh different plans
that might have been developed recently
um either the previous master plan or um
the natural resources inventory for
example that uh the conservation
commission has developed or a capital
improvements plan. Just making sure that
all these plans that the town might be
working on uh relate to one another.
And then um last on the list here is uh
engaging the community through a variety
of tactics. So you've already use one of
those tactics. You've uh put together
what I think is a pretty comprehensive
survey. A lot of good information in
there.
um community forums, uh focus groups
with department heads, for example, uh
different stakeholder groups in the
community or other other ways to foster
that conversation that will ultimately
serve as really good material to
So, those are just some general
recommendations. I can provide some
guidance on the different ways towns
approach updating their master plan.
There's no set recipe. There are
different um ways to go about doing it.
But any any questions so
far given that we kind of knew all that.
So what do we do next? We we have an
existing master plan. We've looked at
it. It's not like oh my god it's
terrible kind of thing. It's and we've
done some surveys and taken input and
this this is the second year third year
we've been
at least into going into the third going
into the third year. So you know we're I
think as a community we're looking for
uh to like Kyle said and now what do we
do? Do we hire consultants? the hair
southwestern we say gez that was fun and
just go back about our merry way. Um so
we do uh work with communities on master
plan updates uh on a consultant basis.
What that looks like um depends. Uh
we've worked with for example the town
of Fitz William. They wanted to do a
more grassroots approach where the in
that case they formed a master plan
steering committee. So the planning
board delegated that process to uh
another committee. If we did that here,
you'd just have the same people on the
committee. So yeah. Okay. So we also
just work directly with planning. I
think in the case of correct that's part
of I think as Dick is saying, you know,
where do we get to the next step? One of
the reasons we go so far is we get
sidetrack with other business, right? So
now we're like we're trying to figure
out how can we get this ball finished
rolling. So, we're kind of like, is
there help out there for us? Do we need
to keep trying to
Yeah. Is there cost associated with
that? Is you know, we're trying to
figure out how we can get to this next
step and finish it up. You seem to come
to the conclusion that while match plan
is good, maybe we should pair it down
smaller. So, in the future, it's always
easy to work with some smaller because I
think it's like 21 pages. We have the
bre. Yeah. So that's been part of it was
like do we get someone on board to go
through it for us and give us a
recommendation how to shorten it to
start with. That might be like the first
thing to do is have somebody look at it
and edit it and say and then from there
once it's smaller mean it's easier for
us to add the survey stuff to well and I
think that for the most part our master
plan has it's it's it has it has
functioned well and so you know it's
it's not that oh my god it's terrible
it's it's 20 years old I think it is
require ired to be updated every so
often. That's part of it. And I don't
think we're going to deviate far from
the overall goal. I think the the the
community still looks, you know, would
appreciate a rural quiet, you know,
environment. And that's very much what
the current plan says. You know,
Walmart's not moving here. General
Motors isn't going to build a plant
here. Uh there's no airports going in.
It's pretty much our our
options
for our options for massive change are
relatively minor. Mhm. So it's more of a
uh tweaking guiding kind of thing. Yeah.
So it could be an iterative approach
where the first step would be um we
could review your existing master plan,
review the input you've received from
the survey and provide you with a
markedup copy of your existing master
plan with recommended revisions. That
would be the kind of the most simple way
of approaching. That would be a logical
next step. Yes. And and so are there c
are there costs associated with that? Is
there you know there? Yeah. What I would
do is I would um develop a proposal that
the planning board could consider that
would lay out exactly what we would plan
to do and the the cost associated with
it. And the the other question that I
would have is in light of all of
the massive legislative changes that may
or may not be coming out of conquer.
Uh should we wait and see what happens?
Well, that that will impact more your
zoning than your master plan. Really?
Yeah.
So, I don't think it will impact your
master plan.
So your suggestion we make proposal to
SWRPC say hey we'd like you to review it
make cliff notes can you pair it down
and here is our survey results. We we so
we would develop a proposal for you to
consider um and the costs that we
estimate to be associated. So the
planning board would write you a letter
and say can you give us a proposal?
Sure. Or you could I mean based on this
conversation we would be comfortable
doing that. I mean if that's if that's
what you would if you'd like to see one
I think we would love to see one at this
point because then even at least we know
like Yep. There you go. Did we put money
away for a master plan this year? We
didn't really have an idea cost. So I
mean I think this is what we need is the
step. I mean we're hold off another
year. We ought to get we ought to get
the bid so we know what we're talking
about cuz maybe we can do something
because if it's 800 bucks we can find
the money but if it's 80,000 uh good the
old plan probably good enough. Yeah.
Yes. I think the board it won't be
80,000
somewhere in the middle.
So I'm
so you need a motion for a motion. I
mean, does everyone agree we should ask
them for a proposal for bid? Yeah,
there'd be no reason not to.
Right. It's just it's more information.
We really need the bid to figure out the
other half. Let's say the cost. If this
cost isn't in the budgets, at least now
we have a number to move forward with.
That's biggest issue we had. We didn't
have a number to put forward for a
budget. So, at feasible feasible. Yeah.
Yes. the board would love to give us
one.
I had one question. So that's like uh
one model of working with us. Is there
like the next step up where you do a
little bit more work, a little bit more
data collection? What I probably do is
include a few different options in the
four phases in the proposal. Makes
sense.
Yeah, I know we we reviewed some other
towns that were simplified and pretty
good and you know again
cars is very similar. Much of it is
outdated, but the overall intent, I
think, is the same. Um, yeah, maybe we
can short it up to a much more
digestible version and that might save
money or not, but yeah, that' be great.
That's exciting.
Do you all have any other questions for
for me? Um I think so actually looks
like we got a correspondence from you
about you guys are updating your bylaws.
Yes. Just brief rundown of that since
you're here. Um sure.
Um the bylaws it's primar. So just I
don't know if everyone's seen that
letter but we we're um we're updating at
the planning commission. We're updating
our bylaws which govern how we operate
as an organization.
Um, as a way to be as fully transparent
as possible, we sent out letters to all
of our member municipalities, both
planning boards and select boards,
inviting any comment um, folks may have
on the changes. Um, they're frankly not
major. They're more clarifying um, uh,
what we already have on the books.
Um, so they're primarily an
administrative change. They're not
radically affecting um really anything
that impacts how we work with our
communities. It's kind of like us
updating updates on the zone to meet the
state type thing, stay within.
I don't think I have any more questions.
Anyone else here?
That's great.
Well, appreciate you moving me to the
top of the agenda. Well, thank you for
coming and we look forward to proposal.
Great. Thank you all. Appreciate your
time.
Excuse me. There's one more member of
the public that um I had a question for
you guys. Is that the Yeah. Joshua
Bergen? Yes. Yeah. I figured just it's a
quick question. You want I can read it
off if you guys want to ask. It's it you
want to drop a temporary storage
container. Correct. Right. 247 North
Main Street. Where's that exactly? Uh
right across from Gran Bruce. Right
So it's just like the my box thing,
right? What size? 20 foot.
How long is it going to be there?
One there.
Well, I mean, is that like six weeks or
60 years? I don't have 60 years.
Um, I'm basically using it as a garage
to house like winter tires,
um, motorcycle,
um, things like that. 20 foot long.
How wide are those?
Eight, eight and a half. So that' be
under the
square feet. It's under the 200 square
foot, but this is the wrong place to ask
that question. That's a selection
decision. Oh,
okay. I So I I I was told I needed a
permit for it, but then didn't know. So
I came to ask and they said that the
planning board was meeting tonight to
come and ask about that.
So it would be if you're if if it's
going to be there permanently.
Uh they can be taxed. You know that as a
structure you know that
as a permanent structure. It's like
putting up a shed. So what's permanent?
I mean I'm not going to leave it there
forever. So you come to the you go to
the selectman's uh meeting. You have two
of the selectment here. Yeah.
fill out a permit to put it put it there
and that will trigger uh Monique the
assessor to figure out how much it costs
and how long it's going to be there.
Basically, if you put it down, it's
going to be there for the next 5 years.
You'll be taxed on it for the 5
years. But you do have to come back in
and let us know that if you take it off
that property that it's no longer need
tax.
Is this
247 North Main Street? Correct. This is
the little house on the point between
Route 12 and Old Road.
Which one? This is um John. John Giler.
Oh, John. Oh, it's a Gilers. Yeah,
sorry. Oh,
yeah. Yeah,
that would be might probably be more of
an issue just so you know. Yeah, that'
be what? It's going to be probably more
of an issue. We are currently in
litigation with Oh, you are about the
cleaning up of his property. Yeah. Okay.
I noticed started. Yeah. And we I don't
know that we can get into that, but
first of all, you can't you can't get a
permit because you don't own the
property. Yeah. Okay. Uh so it have to
come from Mr. Giller, right? Uh and
there's we have a court date on May
29th. That's public record. It's
extensive and been going on for years.
So,
yeah. Okay.
So, yeah, I hold off doing anything
right now in my opinion.
Sounds good.
I just wanted to come down and find out
what they needed to do, if I could do
anything. Um, I think it's an
interesting topic because you can
storage containers and my assumption
wouldn't be that that it be treated as a
structure because it was over a certain
size, right? So, it probably just
behoove you to get a storage unit at the
mountain storage unit there. The one the
one on Dort Street, I believe they're
giving three months. Three months free.
What is that? Uh Dort Street. Dort
Street. It's called Dort Street Storage.
Yeah. Very imaginative. It's brand new.
So, Yeah. Yeah. You know where the
highway bar is? Yes. That's that street
right past that.
They got their phone number.
Yeah. Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you.
Have a good evening. You too. Thank you.
We have a meeting for April 16th or just
Oh, April 16th. I have April 2nd.
Oh, no. I I'm so sorry. Um I printed
out. Hold
on. That is the
right. Yeah, I agree. I read like yeah
this is last meeting that's why
first thing in the minute scribers error
the
date
16 I did
I'll make a motion to approve the town
of Troy Planning Board meeting minutes
from Wednesday, April 16th, 2025.
I'll second
the any
discussion as
amended as amended for
date. All those in
favor as amended for date.
Opposed. And looks like we
have application for lot line
adjustment.
This was noticed, wasn't it? It was.
There's no sheet to read off like it's
cuz of a lot line. Oh, I'm really sorry.
Apparently, I didn't add
um I know the neighbor's got the letters
cuz they called me.
I do have
the Let me go get you one, bro.
[Applause]
I'm sorry. No
worries. Troy public notice. Notice is
hereby given in accordance with RSA 676
col4 and 675 col 7 that regularly
scheduled meeting begin 7 p.m. On
Wednesday, May 7th, 2025, the plan of
board review application from Richard H.
Jackson third revocable trust for
boundary line adjustment at 9 Russell
Avenue, tax map 18, lot 80 in the
residential
district. Upon a finding by the board
the application meets the submission
requirements of the choice subdivision
regulations, the board will vote to
accept the application as complete and
move immediately into public hearing on
the merits proposals. Anyone need
assistance to attend the meeting should
contact selectman's office one week
prior to schedule
meeting or Detroit planning board
as all
right so first
off
name
address name and telephone number
telephone
I don't know if that deal
is
so paid I think.
Yes.
Seven subdivision
checklist. Uh let's
see. Number one, name of subdivision,
name and address of divider. Notable
because it's hotline. Number
two, you swim.
Yeah, I I highlighted the one that's
clean and then the others
I highlighted the
change. Number two, north arrow scale
and date of the plan. Right. All right.
Number three, name, license number, and
seal of the surveyor signature block for
planning board endorsement.
Well, that's there, but he didn't put
his seal on it because he wanted to wait
for the approval.
Condition of survey state intolerances
that are met for the survey of track,
parcel, or lot following New Hampshire
land survey association guidelines.
Certification.
Names of abundant subdivisions, streets,
easements, building lines, and other
facts regarding abundant properties.
Yep.
Focus plan showing zone designation.
Yep. Number seven, boundary survey
including barren, distances, and
location of permanent markers. The
survey shall be conducted according to
standard out land surveys association.
location property lines, lot areas of
square feet and acres, setback lines and
loss numbered according to Troy tax map
system. Number nine, existing proposed
easements, railways, driveways,
buildings, and other
structures. 10 through 29 do not apply
for lot lines. So, we will not go
through
those.
Excuse
me. I'll make a motion to accept the
application as complete. I'll second
that motion. Any discussion?
All those in favor, please say I. I. I.
Oppos.
You want to just give us quick? Sure.
Uh I think you've all got a copy of it
in front of you on the ones that are
highlighted. So the existing I live in 9
Russell Avenue. I'm moving to five
Russell
Avenue. 9 Russell Avenue is green. Five
Russell Avenue is red. If you're driving
down the street and you go, "What is he
talking about?"
The current property line between the
two properties is highlighted in yellow
to the pin and then dash blue line back
out to the street. Basically runs right
down the side of the driveway.
Uh my proposal is
to move the property line between them
and increase the lot size at 9 Russell
Avenue and reduce the lot line the lot
size at five Russell Avenue.
Uh and the TW it the new lot line would
be 20 ft off of the side of five Russell
Avenue. That is the minimum as we
understand it. The pink
lines, uh, if you're looking at one
that's highlighted, are the locations of
the new driveways. John has agreed to
these. And,
uh, so you may wonder, why is he doing
this? There are four maple, four sugar
maples across the front of nine, well,
across there. two in front of 9 Russell
Avenue and two sort of stranded over
here at five Russell Avenue. And so
primarily it will be to make Nine
Russell Avenue better property with
a a better understanding visually of
where the yard is. and losing that small
triangle of land is of virtually no
consequence to five Russell Avenue
because the lot is
so large relative to the other lots in
the neighborhood.
Um, so that's basically all it is. I
could simply do an easement uh
over over five to nine, but I really
don't think that's what I wanted to do.
And I I can go back 30 years as a real
estate agent and selling nine Russell
Avenue, what is now nine. It used to be
a different number. It was always
confused about where the lot line was
because this triangle of land looks like
it goes with nine Russell Avenue, but it
doesn't. It's sort of this stranded
sideyard of five. So, since I own them
both, uh I wanted to fix that. And I
think the whole neighborhood will
actually look better uh by making that
move. That's really what it comes down
to.
Um, I can answer any questions about the
land, the lot,
uh, anything you'd like to know about
it. But, uh, you know, neither neither
one is conforming now, so conforming to
current zoning.
Um, nine Russell Avenue will be slightly
less
non-conforming
and five Russell Avenue will be slightly
more non-conforming, although it
actually is still the largest lot on the
street. Uh, well, Corky's at least
Bankers Lot may be larger, but not much.
So, that's it. I'm happy to answer any
questions.
I don't think I have any questions. Does
anyone else in the board? Okay. You see
any issues? No. I reviewed this when
Dick first submitted this and we talked
about the
um the zoning board issue and I believe
he went to the zoning board in the
meantime. Well, I've talked to him but I
haven't been there because I haven't
been here. Ah, okay. Okay. So the uh the
ordinance allows a non-conforming lot to
be to be made larger even if that
doesn't make it conforming. So that
would apply to
get to nine. Um but it doesn't allow you
to make a non-conforming lot smaller. So
that would need a variance from the
zoning board. Yep. So your choices
tonight would be to approve this
conditional upon Dick receiving that.
until of course the plat wouldn't get
signed until it came back with the
approval from the zoning board. And
that's the simplest thing to do really.
I see no issues with doing that that
way. I mean you're reducing that one lot
by
0.05
correct
or couple thousand square feet maybe.
Any further discussion?
I'll put forth a motion that
conditionally approve it from ZBA
approval. I
second. Any discussion on the motion?
All those in favor I opposed abstain.
Thank you all. Thank you. All I need to
do is sign up for this.
I can send the various application and
then I'll let you know.
Okay. that
way. All
right. Looks like we have a flowchart.
Did that need to discuss something more
or is just hoping because you have
forum? Um, one because we have a quorum,
but also two, do we want to talk about
the streets and roads? We want to talk
about uh, well, we wanted we have a
couple of things.
Uh, biggest thing is we wanted to talk
about
um, now of course the words the
Alzheimer's has kicked in. Impact piece.
Um, impact piece. Thank you. That too.
And you know, we had a brief moment
before uh the warrant was closed. We
thought, well, maybe we should have an
impact fee. And then Carol nicely
informed us that, well, you can't just
pull one out of the air. You have to
have like meetings and talk to people
and stuff.
So, and people we have to talk to are in
this room.
So, I'll give you the short story on why
we think impact fees might be something
we should be considering as a
community. In the first six years I was
a
selectman, if we issued 10 building
permits, it was a lot. I mean, for all
six
years and in the last two years, I'm
pretty sure
we've issued a couple of dozen. And the
trend is 31, significantly more.
And so, and this has nothing to do with
water and sewer. I mean, if we saw uh we
see a new project is up at the end of
Memorial Drive, but just did as an
example that's actually I forget how
many units it is all together. 15
10 I mean, what was it? Three duplexes.
three duplexes, five duplex, something
that's five duplexes,
so that gives you 10 units. And uh and
actually when when uh when Chad was in
here talking about it, he's the one who
said, "Well, you know, if there's an
impact me, I'm used to failing." And
there is an impact on the community, a
financial impact of non-reoverable costs
um that I think are reasonable to
consider.
Um there is an impact
on leaving again leaving water and sewer
out of it.
Um you have a you have a police impact.
You have you have recreational
facilities. You have use of the town
comm you you could just go through the
whole list. EM EMS costs. So if we're
going to start building a dozen or more
houses a year in Troy,
uh we should might want to think about
that and I'm not sure how they would be
structured but um and I and there you
know when you look at the trend in
statewide or regionwide in housing
uh for years for literally for decades
in Troy we have tried to decrease the
number of units per
building and now the trend in the state
for sure and the region certainly is to
increase the number of units per
building. So if if we are going to at
some point be mandated or choose to
increase the number of units. If
somebody wants to come in and build a
4unit apartment building, I would argue
that that's four units and the impact
fee should be applied to each unit
individually. It's not a single
building.
And then we have the potential for
proliferation of ADUs under existing law
assuming the ADU law is not amended
which doesn't appears it may be. So all
of those things would be relevant and
the demand for services on the
community you know how do you get that?
I mean the answer is impact
fees. Um it's a you know mother tested
prime approved methodology.
And
uh Carol, do you is there a set of rules
on how these are determined?
Sort of. Typically, well, first of all,
there are a couple of things that you
have to have before you can even adopt
an ordinance. Sure. One is a master
plan. A little fuzzy of whether or not
that needs to be up to date. Whether or
not working on a master plan update
would qualify as having an acceptable
master plan to support a CIP is a
question we can explore. The other is a
CIP and I believe that you do update
your CIP every year. So that's that's
critical. Uh so typically what happens
is the PL board develops an ordinance
that goes to town meeting just like
zoning. Y but associated with that is a
fee schedule that kind and I had just an
example here from from class style where
there is a specific cost that is
assigned for every type of construction
every building permit that's issued. So
for residential for
non-residential the the challenge here
is and it's not a challenge it's a money
question is that you need somebody to
develop that fee schedule for you and
and that can be costly depending upon
how many things you want to include that
you want to be subject to the impact
fee. If you want to cover everything the
law allows you to cover, you know, that
would you would be talking some big
money. I I talked to uh the consultant
who does a lot of this work and he
mentioned that uh he and his colleague
just did a study to develop such a
schedule for a town only looking at one
issue and and that cost them
$10,000 to develop that because you know
it's a lot of work to do that. There is
an alternative that I have seen and I
have not yet been able to track down how
this actually works. There are several
towns that instead of using a schedule,
they have a statement in their ordinance
that says basically that the fee shall
be a proportional share that's
reasonably related to the capital needs.
But I haven't been able to find out how
or who calculates that. So that's
something that I will continue to try.
Would that be a DRA question? I no I
don't think so that that assigns the
planning board when someone comes in
with a proposal then they somehow figure
out other ordinances I've seen they just
calculate what the cost of the of the
project is and then that's how they
figured it out. But I'm I'm not
comfortable with this because I'm just
not familiar with it. I'm I'm accustomed
to having, you know, a discrete fee
schedule that says exactly what that
money. Yeah, that's pretty squirly. It
is squirly because if I come in and I
say that my estimate my job is going to
cost $350,000 and you say, "Okay, we get
1%." And I give you my 3500 bucks and
then I have cost overruns and it's
50550,000. Do you come back to the Yeah.
Do you get another 22 2200 or we good?
That's a good question. I actually
contacted Francistown and Benton Town in
our region. They're two towns that use
this language. It's exactly the same
language, so I don't know who prepared
this for them. So I asked them in
Francis Town, so how does this work? And
the answer I got was, well, actually the
planning board has never really applied
this, so you know, who knows? Who knows?
The other thing to consider aside from
the money for the schedule is that and
you may know this already D is that um
you have to use that money to do the
improvement within six years otherwise
you have to give it back with interest.
So that can be that can be a problem if
you're not bringing in enough money to
actually do the work that the fee is
intended to offset and the town doesn't
have the money to you know make up the
difference then you could because you're
holding it in a separate account all
this time anyway so it is acrewing
interest and then you have to you have
to give it back. So those are sort of
the high points that can can you send us
the the RSAs that are govern this and
then we can maybe the planning board and
the select board can read these
and I'm looking at dos just for so what
do the fees go towards let's say this
might explain that so the way do has
their setup is they have it broken down
into four categories recreation police
fire and schools and then for a total
impact fee and it's just based on single
family townhouse two and three families
four plus unit things manufactured
housing accessory
dwelling apartment over
non-residential 55 and over restricted
um 62 and over restricted and then it
goes into non residential uses and just
then it's price per square foot
probably because it's a lot more
straightforward commercial
oddly enough the single family detached
home has the highest impact assessment.
Um that's because that's where all the
kids are. So yeah, and and the highest
um cost is obviously schooling and then
recreation and then police and fire is
below.
Um and then again in the 55 and over,
police and fire gets well fires
incredibly higher. There must be some
sort of uh metric around that, you know,
a statistic around that.
But yeah, so that means to me that those
would go into four separate accounts and
within that six year time frame, you'd
have to pick a project and have so they
have to go towards a project like that.
They don't go into the budget of those.
Well, if you have a budget for uh I
would if you have a budget for the fire
department and you're contributing you
have to buy new whatever your however
your CIP is set up then you would take
that money and feed it into the
presumably the fire department is in
that CIP and that money would go towards
that. So the impact fees go into the CIP
for those departments. I guess that's my
question. Where are those fees? way of
doing it. Well, they they sit they sit
in a fund until they're expended and
they get expended for whatever
whatever component of of the town
facility or service it has been assigned
to. So if it's for road improvement,
then you're repaving a road and you've
got the money or if you name a specific
road, it would be well or you you would
say it goes into the it goes to paving
roads or replacing
curbs, then it's that if let's say it
was $10,000 to fix the curbs around the
common. So we we fix the curbs around
the common. We've collected $2,000 in
impact fees towards that fine. And the
other 83 8,000 comes from general
taxation. So it's still used to offset
the project which is in your plan. But
my question is so it's in that projects
not for general budget, right? So like
fire EMS other other than the fact that
those things are also in the general
budget. Yeah. But you're offsetting your
cost. It's just like uh when we do the
road we when we we go with a road budget
and we say, "Well, we're going to spend
$100,000 on the roads, but $50,000 of
that's going to come from the block
ramp." Yeah. So, we'd still have to have
authorization to expend. We're going to
spend $10,000 on the curve around the
common, but 2,000 of that's coming from
the impact fees in the
CIP. That's the way you would pull it
out. So it goes to like town improvement
projects even though it's calculated off
like fire EMS. Well, that's and it's an
improvement. You don't there's no law
that says you have to have it doesn't
have to be like a police it could be
base cost. If you if you label it as
such, it would be Yeah. Well, that's
what I'm trying to figure out. Does it
have to be specifically labeled? Does it
go into general fun? No, we have to
label We have to identify the things
that we're collecting the money for.
Yes. We can't just say, which was
actually what I originally wanted to do,
give us a thousand bucks and we'll
figure it out. So, well, it's simpler
that way. Exactly. Yeah. But, so, no,
you got to say, we're going to give us
a,000 bucks and 200 of it's going to EMS
and 200 of it's going to the fire and
200 of it's going to the roads. And I do
I still have some more stuff? 200 to the
wreck? Yeah. 200 to the transfer
station. 200 the transfer station. And
now we've spent $1,000.
That makes sense. Does that fall under
the selective perview to keep an eye on
that or who would that fall under
because we got make sure to keep an eye
on that so we don't pay. Well, we would
be we're the we I believe we would be
the uh what do they call it to expend?
Agents. Agents to expend. Yes, we'd be
the agents to expend. But it's the the
fees are
set. I think the two boards would work
together to say this is our plan. Yeah.
And then it actually goes forward to the
voters in town meeting,
right? We can't just whip it up in this
room. Yeah. I mean, we can and it will
have a plan. It just has to be, right?
So, you can set it up so that that could
be assessed at a subdivision level,
which here would probably not make sense
because mostly you get subdivisions and
the building doesn't happen right away.
So, assessing it at the building permit
stage is makes the most sense, right?
And and what In my former life in
Maryland, when we did a subdivision that
had 16 176 lots in it, we charged a
front foot benefit fee. It was literally
based on how many feet of Well, we
didn't, the county did. I was on the
other side of it, but the count
Montgomery County charged if you had 150
foot lot, which there aren't 150 foot
lots in Montgomery County, but you had a
35 foot lot, that was $200 a foot. And
if you had a 100 foot lock, it was $200
a foot, but you paid more money. So
that's the front foot benefit was
allocated that way. And the benefit was
you got you got curve in front of your
house and pay broke. Uh but that's one
of the ways the county collected money
understanding that the county government
in Maryland is the local government.
Well, we now learned on that. So I think
it's something that offset revenue or
help revenue coming in and offset our
budget and I think it's be a good idea
in my opinion. Well, and it goes it it
goes to capital expenditures which are
the parts that all small towns have. You
know, we struggle to just keep our heads
above water and just, you know, keep the
lights on. How do we ever get the
other stuff? So, dos a percentage or
like they get a cost to know what we're
bringing
in town. Well, I'm saying I'm assuming
that's what what Carol was talking about
when they had to have hire someone to
figure that all out. Like what is you
know Well, I'm just curious are charged
for impact fees. No. So, um I I'm I'm
looking at the RSA now, but what it was
it was like um for recreation, let's put
we'll just use the single family one.
That's the one I remember the best. It
was like $1,600 for uh recreation. The
police and fire was relatively low. I
think it was like three and four,
respectively. And then the school was
like 6800. Yeah, single family home had
a total of like just over $8,000. So
this is was this do or do which is a
lot, right? But I mean just they took
time to figure it out individually and
it just shows you know school lot is
$400,000 not too far behind.
I'm just trying to think of the numbers
here. What is it actually bringing in?
You know, right? Or in theory, what
could be? We probably be a side do.
Well, and again, you know, if we do if
we do 24 houses this year, that would be
a lot. Yeah. But if they do 24 houses
this week in Dober, they go, "Oh, it's
kind of a busy week." Yeah. You know,
relative. Yeah. Jerry's Jeremy's from
over there. He's all those places.
Curbside pickup. You still have to pay
for bags. Yeah.
So I guess um for the select from the
select board's perspective if if if
Carol can email us the rules on this
copy of was it what did you think was it
new which you had? Oh plow
plast sounds interesting.
Uh if we could get copies of that and
everybody can take a look at it, then we
can get our thoughts together
and maybe we can see what we we have a
little time. Yes. But you know, the
warrant closes next February, so we've
got like eight nine months.
Be here before we know it. Yeah. Is that
way?
So you'll for that. Did you forward that
stuff to us too already or no? I did
not, but I will. I don't think you
poured in the dust either. Did you? No.
So, we have our the other thing on the
since we're enrolled with a
select. The other famous thing we have
here is our our uh flowchart flowart. Y
and I think we'd like to talk to you
about that. Make sure you're happy with
it. that we've gone through at 16 ways
from Sunday. And the thing that we
discovered, we thought we had this all
buttoned down is you had to kind of know
where to begin. So that's why we put the
big yellow diamond at the top that says
everything begins with a selectment.
It's like Candyland, you know, you got
to know where to start.
And if you follow the process
through, you can you should be able to
see uh you could you you could follow
the process for my application where you
go to the ZBA and then you you go to
planning board then you have to go to
the ZBA and then get your variance then
come back and so forth. Uh there are
some things that the selective can
immediately issue a building permit for,
but there's some things that need to
come here and there's some things that
would go to the ZBA and if uh if it gets
rejected here or the ZBA and can go to
court or
whatever using my phone as a magnifying
I get And that's where I'm at.
You're wearing your bif focals. I know.
Magnifying what you're seeing on the
screen of your phone.
We thought we thought this would be
helpful in a couple of ways.
Um, we've had we do, as you guys know,
because you get all these requests
ultimately or most of them, but we
have agreed that we would like to keep
records. probably crazy. Uh, and the
best way to control the records is have
everything essentially be checked in at
the door in the selector's office with
Ebie. Yeah. Uh, or an Ebie like person
and um assigned a number so that we can
track it through the hall
system. And we have had push back more
than once by people said well I don't
want to go, you know, I just want to go
to the planning board. uh we'll use Mr.
Tran as an example. He just wants to
come in here and have you do stuff.
Well, that's not how it works. You need
to go through the system. So, we were
hoping that this would be
simpler or or maybe not more systematic.
If if it isn't simpler and it isn't
clearer, it's at least consistent. I
think it's consistency is the key. Well,
and that was where we felt we were
actually at Our downfall was a lack of
consistency. And I think there while I
while I'm not one to worry about
litigation, I do think that you
jeopardize the the or put put the the
town at risk when you're inconsistent in
your application of rules. Mhm. And so
if everybody walks through the door and
everybody gets presented with the same
set of rules and everybody goes down the
same path, then nobody's got anything to
complain about, right? Or everybody has
the same thing to complain about. But at
least it's consistent. Consistent. Yeah.
Consistent, I think, is the key. And
obviously puts down template two for as
volunteers change for the people.
Correct. The board. That's correct.
You've got how many new members? Two new
members here.
yet.
So, I
do get this blown up so we can actually
Well, it's actually put on the wall. So,
I think once you Yeah. Once you nail it
down, which it looks pretty darn good,
then you can make it aesthetically
appealing. Well, through the through the
magic of computers, we have that
ability. This is the fun size to fit in
your package. But we can make it I can I
can take it to Gem Graphics and have it
printed on a 24 by 32 or 32x 48 if
that's what we like. But you know if you
don't see further glaring errors and
frankly if we don't like it we can
change it easily. Uh, it's not a crisis,
but we need to get with it and start
passing this out and making it available
to
people unless you guys think otherwise.
Makes sense. I can follow. I like it.
She's to follow. Okay. Put that in your
package now.
This is our
15th. I think it's more like the 15.
Yeah, it's there were there were some
that you didn't see. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Well, I saw Amanda make them. Yeah.
Well, no, before she was here making
them, she was making them at the office.
She did better than I did.
Uh, comment. When you get the finaliz,
does it make sense to maybe just send
the copies out with the Troy
communicator? That would be a good thing
to have, I think. Yeah, like a little
pamphlet like the 81, just one of these.
Yeah, I think that's not a bad idea. I
haven't thought of that, but anybody
writing articles, they could use it.
Otherwise, there might not be one much
longer. Well, there's one. You know,
it's so funny because you look at one
for Fitz William or Marbor. Marbor looks
like the phone book.
Everybody in Marbor
writes, "How many lefties can you put in
one thing?"
Yeah, I think I think that's what I
would get out. Yeah, that's it. What was
this? I think third
I always wanted to talk about the
streets and the roads as well for like
Oh, right. next to the bakery and uh
CrossFit street. So, we have a meeting.
Before you go to that, I just there's
some some exceptions to this, I think.
Um how are you thinking of dealing with
exceptions? What would be give us an
example? Uh like this week's zoning
board, it was a an innovative land use.
So, the zoning board doesn't deal with
it. It has to go rights in the superior
court. Superior court. Um, so that's
doesn't happen very frequently. Well,
that's in there. That what? So that
means the zoning board turned it down or
chose to not decide, but I would assume
they they would have to have turned it
down. Is that the appeal? I think. So
that's your appeal to the superior
court. Yeah, I don't think they have to.
I think it it it jumps the the zoning
board. I don't think they have to go
technically.
I think they did. They did. They did
have they had to have something that to
Right. They have to have a reason to
petition the court, right? I don't I
don't I don't think the law says that
though. I think the law says that uh if
it's a innovative land use control, it's
appeal to the superior court. Well,
since probably doesn't hurt. I'm just
saying well if the by the same token the
ZBA could say yeah we think that's
within the scope.
They can whatever they they can then
somebody who doesn't like it could of
course petition superior court could but
the tradition right so the answer my
answer to the question is if if you have
something that's off the chart it's off
the chart but normally the process is
you'd go to the ZBA the ZBA would either
accept it or reject it and if you don't
like your rejection then you're always
have recourse to superior court yeah the
only thing I want to make sure of though
is it doesn't screw up their time frame
And I don't know. Now, is that a state
thing or is that a town thing? Retail.
That's a state thing. So, this is kind
of like town level. That's what I'm
thinking. This is just a process thing.
We're not There's no time. I don't think
there's any timets on how No, I'm just
saying if somebody There's some dates on
this.
If it took some time to get to the ZBA
and their time to get to the superior
court, well, they have 30 days to
petition the superior court from a ZBA
hearing and then whenever the court puts
it on its docket, it could be like the
12th of never or it could be the next
day. Right. I I'll look it up. I just
want to make sure that we're not I
agree. Uh and the other one, I guess, is
the the state housing appeals board that
people don't have that option of going
Well, that would be for
What would that be for? That that would
be for wrongfully implemented zoning.
Uh, I think I think it's for variety. I
think it could be for a building permit,
too. I think there's a variety of ways
to get to the housing field. So, this is
kind of what I'm thinking. This is like
for someone walks in, wants to get
application, build something. I think
you're talking about the side where if
it doesn't go their way, they don't like
it. This is they have to go through this
whole process first to get to that
point, right? you'd have to come in and
so we had to that's how I'm seeing it,
right? Yeah. I I agree with that. This
is this is real. We're I agree. I mean,
if it can be fixed. Yeah. But I think
it's in the category of if we if you
know, we've had if we if we have some if
we have some literally if we have
something that's off the chart, it's off
the chart. This is the basic the average
guy comes in, he wants to build a
garage. How what do I do?
We have the guy that comes in and he
wants
to put a storage trailer on a property
that he doesn't own. The the real answer
is he should have come to the select
board's office and we would have taken
up and we would have told him you don't
own it. So, first of all, you can't do
it. You have to get the owner to do it
and then we could go from there. Yeah.
No, I agree entirely. Keeping it simple
is really important. Yeah. Um, but maybe
there's a note or an addendum or
something for just a few of them. We can
put a footnote in it says something like
there may be other legal options not
covered on this chart. This is designed
to be a basic Yeah. Orart for the issue
of trying to cover the legal side legal
side on every single one of these
points, right? They don't like the road
agents answer. You can have a legal case
there. That's true. You don't like that
they're sending you to this board then
legal case there. I mean, yeah. Yeah.
No, I was just thinking if there's a few
big ones that are exceptions that might
be worth not changing the chart, but it
might be just worth worth calling about.
Well, like the one that happened this
week, Matt, at the at the ZBA,
think that this chart would be
sufficient for that
that VBA couldn't act on it. That this
was the Lee.
Uh the the cell street Clemens. Is that
Clemente? Oh. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.
It's a civil, right?
Yeah. That's that wouldn't civil on this
anyways. Yeah. Right. Well, that's the
thing. It's But they wanted to appeal or
overturn the planning board's decision
to allowing that. Right.
Right. that I mean the bottleneck wasn't
that it's an innovative land use control
conditional use permit thing and they
don't go to the appealing those don't go
to the DVA they go to the superior court
right but it's it was that's in our
zoning conservation what we agreed to do
or what you guys agreed to do there so
it's not like we made it up for that
no it's it's just they went they applied
to the
ZBA and then they got to the ZBA and the
ZBA says this isn't us. We can't do it.
Right. Go to the next step. Right. Well,
they were turned down at the ZBA. Yeah.
Yeah. The Z if the ZBA had wanted to get
the ZBA probably could if they felt it
was wrongly applied. They could have
gone into it and said, "No, we'll have
the hearing because we don't think this
is right."
And then you could have a whole argument
whether they have whether they have
authority to do that or not. Right.
Right. All of which if you stick around
here long enough, you will Oh, no. I
know there's a lot of exceptions. I was
just Yeah. We'll pass it. Yeah. We're
just We're just trying We're just trying
to get the guy that wants to build a
two-car garage in the back of his lot.
We're trying to get him that where do I
go with this fork? No, I think it's a
great You could argue that that whole
thing started with the orange one appeal
administrative decision, but it turned
into something else. Correct. Yeah. No,
I don't want to complicate it. I just
was thinking of are there a couple of
exceptions that we might want to call
out, but I agree. It's fine. It's good.
It's not designed to be
It's designed to be there. There may
there will always be exceptions.
Anything regarding planning and zoning
always has exceptions, right, Carol? I'd
almost
probably that that exact phrase and
that's why you need contact slip, right?
I think for Yeah. For just cover your
own house. Yeah. And what we really
want, when I say we, I mean what we
really want as a town is we want a
system for keeping records of these
things because the the more you know,
the less you wish you knew where you go,
well, where's the file from four years
ago? And you go and there's a f there's
literally a file folder there and you
open it up. Well, I don't want to say
four years ago because that was on my
torch. So from 22 years ago and there's
a file there and it's carefully labeled.
You open it up and there's nothing in
it. Little moth
moths and you go wait they had hearings
on it and everything and then you you
know so we're trying to get by that.
Yeah. Cuz you guys have a new numbering
system you guys did now. We're try Well,
we're trying. We I think that last chart
you gave me per was great. Like I could
see the progression year after year how
they improved and yeah it's good. That's
all heavy.
It's good. It's good. She's like the
work.
So there's a good thing you can take. It
wasn't just me not taking all the
credit. What was the third thing Curtis?
The roads. Oh. So when we have that it's
not really a hearing. It's just a a
public notice at the upcoming
selectments meeting. Is it in June or is
it May? 29th. The 29th. Oh, we So,
here's what we are talking
about. We're going to propose first of
first of all, Old Keen Road, if you know
where that is on the north end. The
state is going to be replacing that
bridge later this year. And when they
are while they are replacing that
bridge, we
are agreeing to close old Keen Road's
entrance into Route 12 because the
alternative is to have a 15 light
carousel to make it so that you can come
out of Lawrence Road, come out of Olden
Road, come out of the driveway across
the street and switch. If you recall how
complicated it was just getting down up
Route 12 through web depot
uh when they did that which was far
fewer roads involved. So the simplest
thing there is to close old Keen Road
temporarily. That's thing
one. Thing two is you have a similar
situation where Prospect Street comes
out at
uh by this bridge when they do this
bridge. However, the difference there is
what we're proposing there is that
Prospect Street be made one way from
Route 12 to the top of the hill where it
is 8 ft 8 and 1/2 ft wide and that it
remain one way to that point and then be
two-way from there
down and we
would you know we would do appropriate
signage and then put a stripe across the
road where it says do not enter one way
either coming out past the
ledge. And then the third thing is
depot
is really not wide enough for the
service that it provides. Um and
particularly I don't know where you guys
all live but
um when school is in session that is a
bus stop both for elementary and high
school and so if at 7:30 in the morning
when the bus comes from manadnock there
are generally three or four cars
particularly in the winter when it's
cold
uh you kind of feel sorry for the kids
whose parents don't sit there because
they're standing freezing. Uh but
there's three or four cars parked in the
middle of Depot Street.
Um because that's where that's where
they sit. So the proposal there is to
make Depot Street one way downhill and
add parking to the left hand side.
There's a room for at least three
parking spaces from we'll call it High
Street down to the entrance of my
parking lot. There's room for a parking
space, preferably a handicap space in
front of Kimble Hall, and there would
actually be potentially spaces below
that. Uh, and that solves there is a
parking congestion
issue generally there at certain
times, but it's also a safety issue. The
real driver is this. The safety issue is
twofold. The aforementioned parking
problem with people simply parking in
the middle of the street. And I I use
the school bus pickup as an example, but
that is not the only time that that
happens. You can go over there in the
middle of the day and if people are
going in and out of the helping hand or
if there's all the parking is taken up
on the common, people just park in the
middle of Depot Street cuz that's what
people have always
done. Uh, and it's very unsafe. If you
are headed out of Depot Street up into
High Street and you put the front wheels
of your car on the stop line, you have a
lovely view of the front of the helping
hand. If you put your back wheels of the
back wheels of your car uh on the stop
line, you have a lovely view of the shed
on the side of the helping hand. So you
basically have to pull into the road to
see the oncoming traffic. It is a
literally a completely blind corner.
And so that's the reason for making it
go downhill instead of uphill. And
supposed to be narrower too because it's
part that road is actually built onto
the bakery property. That's correct.
It's that anywhere from 3 ft to a foot
and a half is actually on the bakery's
property.
Uh so there's that at least the province
and for most of us we don't realize it
but when
the southwestern community
services built the
uh building the 15un apartment building
at the bottom end of the
common in order to make it compliant
with the require then current then and
actually current requirement two spaces
per unit which would be 30
spaces. Uh 12 spaces are granted at the
depot.
So theoretically,
Southwest has the first 12 spaces at the
depot. So the parking that we all know,
use, and love at the depot where the
railroad ties, those are actually on
Southwestern's parking.
Uh there's a lot of funny little stuff
at depot. Um, but that would be so
they're never going to need they
literally are never going to need that
parking. But in five years when the
uh restriction goes away on who they can
rent to, they're going to need the
parking. I was going to ask that stay
with the property, right? So,
uh, again, more parking on Depot Street
would be good and making it one way
downhill is a safety issue.
So that's that's what we're going to
bring out to the public unless you guys
see something. May 29th
29th
we're not putting up a stop sign. No
stop signs.
Well, there are stop signs involved, but
they're already there. We'll probably
talk about it just because
let's screw some up. Yeah. For those of
you who are new to the board, stop signs
have been a controversy in the st. One
in particular. One in particular. Only
one. Put up other stop signs and not
nobody batting on. You put up to one.
One. Oh my god.
Yeah. Getting ready to be lynched.
I think that's all we have. That was all
we had. So if you're That's good. I'm
going to Ebie's going to help me get my
stuff over to the ZBA and get that cube
teed up and I will leave.
Okay, at 8:19
I appreciate your patience everybody.
Thank you. Thanks.
competit upcoming training
opportunities. Is that the email you sh
maybe? I'm sorry. Um I don't know if
there's anything actually for today.
Yeah, I just see it's on. No. Um, other
than the I think a few people have
signed up for the spring training for
planning and zoning which is very very
good. All right. So, 2025 work
program master plan promotion. Looks
like we're going to wait for the
proposal from
Southwest. Kind of looking forward to
that. Hopefully we should do that this
year.
stuff and sharpen the
pencil track. I don't think we have
anything
there. Road safety just went
over. Um I bring it up here um about
putting in for the grant again to do the
flash and light. Was it this board I
talked about it or it's the second
board? You mentioned it in here.
Um so I I don't know if we're when the
time frame is for that grant um complete
streets grant they're still doing that
or whatnot but
um I think if we can just find the old
grant that how it was written up and cop
it but changed with the destination and
we have to price match it for next year.
I like to get flashing light up on the
north side of the common or on the
common north side of common. Where's the
north side of common? So there is a
crosswalk that goes across uh and people
do not I mean you talking about front of
the church up there. Yeah. Okay. So
there's when you said common I was
thinking like right at the bridge. Oh
yeah. No. So you're talking north main
street. Yeah. North main street. Right
after Menar in front of the church. That
Yeah. Okay. And possibly one on each
side of the common as well because
people just not stopping. I I live right
on the common and I I see people that
just keep going and then you see people
all of a sudden they realize that
there's somebody in the crosswalk or
somebody waiting, they slam on their
brakes and the northbound side. I know
exactly where you're talking. Yeah, it's
so I I know that complete streets grant
started with the plan board and I'm
pretty sure I brought it up with the
selectman as well, but I just want to
see if we can do that if or look to see
if that's
available cuz the one on in front of the
library and for the church that works
great and the ones that are all in keen
for the when you see that flashing
light, you know somebody's waiting to go
across. It's when they don't have the
flashing light when you get actually up
onto
uh
main street in Yeah. after them because
people are just standing on the and
there's usually a a car that's lifted or
a bigger vehicle and you can't see them.
So Keen's got them. They're starting to
get more and more. I think we just
really need to look into that.
Yeah, they're nice cuz So there's so
many things to pay attention to on that
common, right? There's people coming in
from other directions that Right. And if
there's an event on people ignoring
them, it's just like, holy crap, there's
a lot more happened the other day. Oh my
god. Yeah. And if there's an event on
the common, I mean, or not even just on
the common or at the laundromat or in
the parking lot over here. I mean, if
there's something going on, they're
looking at that instead of watching the
road. I
mean, so I mean, the other place I was
thinking about, which I don't know how
we it's possible, is uh the crosswalk in
front of the deli that cuts across to
the the little store. I just don't I
don't know how that would happen because
if there's any cars parked at the deli,
that flashing light on that side will
not be seen.
So, like when people come down off a
high street, they're looking left to see
if cars are coming. They're not paying
attention if anybody's backing up out of
the deli. That was part of the reason
why we put a stop sign up there to slow
people down before they come down in.
And before we had that big hearing and
everything, I actually went there an
hour before the meeting
and kid almost got hit because he come
across was on a bike was starting to
come across on the deli side and
someone's looking left to see if
traffic's coming and they The solution
to that one drives people
nuts is to put the flashlight there. You
move it up to where the stop sign is in
front of open hands. So you're off the
common. You can put signs in each end.
You're past the parking. You can see the
signs coming down the hill. Activate it
down on No, they'll move the whole
crosswalk. Don't do it on a 45 there.
Turn that spot into parking. Mobile park
spot. move the crosswalk down to the end
where the um depot street starts and go
straight across to where the sidewalk
ends at the red or the cozy cottage.
Yeah. Then you can have lights on either
side of the C for both directions.
You're not in the middle of that turn
spot.
That would be the way to do that one.
You'd be straight, right? You'd be past
the parking. You now have a one-way
street. So, you alleviated another set
of traffic there.
You won't have a like a pole right in
the middle of your, you know, storefront
corner right there. Yeah, that's what
I'm saying. I don't know. I mean, I've
seen some I think that one would require
some sort of study to get the proper
cost. But that one to fix that one, the
best thing I think would be to move that
crosswalk
down, get it out of that mess of a
junction right there. Well, I think if
we do it for like one for the next each
year coming up because we have to do a
what is it? A price match. So, if the
state gives us um eight, we have to do
eight. Yeah, we have to we have to price
match. I think that's how that worked. I
know Mary did a lot of the the logistics
on it.
Um I don't even know where it I'm sure
Jeremy still has the old one. Who does
complete street grant which is the state
or
commission? Commission.
So, I think I think we can just look
into that or even somebody I know
there's a grant writing course that's
happening sometime soon. If somebody's
interested in going to a grant writing
course and get a couple of grants, it'd
be great. Still, I mean, just cuz you
take the course doesn't mean you know
how to do everything, right? Yeah. Or
that it's easy by any means, but Jeremy
Jeremy he's he's gone one or two
classes. Yeah. You don't know when these
streets is due this year? I I don't, but
I can find out. We kiss that. And I
think the easiest one for this year,
depending on what to do, would be the
North Main Street one. It's a very
straightforward one. Yeah. I think the
common one's going to be tricky again,
too, cuz we have three crosswalks there.
I think if we just do two of them, get
rid of that third one. Get rid of the
third one. The one close to the deli.
Yeah. Cuz you're coming right off that
curve from 12 down by the library. Yeah.
And then you get people from
Massachusetts that go the opposite way
and or put the stop over the direction.
I mean, it doesn't look like a rotary.
It functions like a rotary, but it
doesn't look like a rotary.
So, yeah, that was a conversation I had
with somebody I was talking with about
what is the actual right way to use a
rotary. I said, well, it really depends
on the sign before it because the one
that's over in front of Roman's Pizza in
Bra when you're going from nine to go
across, that one's totally different
than the ones you come in front of uh at
the Walmart. There's several in King.
Yeah, the all those other ones because
the outside lane is for a right-hand
turn for the first number one. The
inside lane is for number two and three.
And if somebody comes on and they're on
the outside lane, they're supposed to be
doing the first turn on the right, but
that's not how these ones we were or the
ones in hand working right now or those
five. I'd
say they're different.
Um this
I guess we have to figure out what it's
due and then see how much time we have
to decide which one to chase cuz streets
could also be for a study right so we
get a cost announcement on all the ones
we thinking about I think so I think
what did he said last time do a study on
it and say if we need it cuz I know um
Dick mentioned also on Mil Street here
for the kids cross yeah for to school
which I kind of agree at that too
because they come up off a mil hill
coming up the hill and I mean they do
slow down to go down it because they
know that there's an active road. School
street is a very active road
yeah most everybody come seems to turn
on school street
so
um yeah
I just had a question before we
y um a while back you sent us like an
email about was was just questioning
whether they put like an RV park
model onto a
individual. Do you know what happened
with that?
Um I can't remember. I think they were
told they can't do it. Yeah. Yeah.
Someone just sent a picture of one.
Well, you I'm sorry. I'll back up. You
sent an email with a nice description,
but it had a picture. Yeah. No worries.
Okay. Yeah. I just didn't know. I think
Carol is that correct? Yep. I've
actually had a couple of conversations
with
her. My my
initial understanding of that. So, first
of all, I told her that that would be
allowed. She said in her email she
wanted to use it as an office, you know,
for a business. And I said, "Yeah, that
would that would be allowed, but it
couldn't be a dwelling because it's on
wheels." Um, and then the next question
is, "Where is this? And it would this be
a permitted use?" So what she wanted to
do was a nursery. And so I looked at the
ordinance and initially said, well
that's not a permitted use in the
district forgetting that this is the lot
that was selected put the petition in to
have changed to the highway business. So
yeah, so once once I had figured out my
mistake, I called her back and and told
her that there would be a permitted use
in the district. But the issue with the
with the park model would still stand.
And she asked about how that might
possibly become a residence. And I said,
"Well, you'd have to, you know, take the
wheels and off and put it on foundation,
but whether or not you could live there
and have the business, you know, that
would require a special exception to
have two principal uses on the same lot
or it might be considered accessories to
the principal business." But anyway, she
had not yet bought the property and was
undecided about what she was going to
do. and she did actually call me back a
week or so ago just to say that she was
still thinking about it and you know
just hadn't made up her mind yet. So
that's the latest. Yeah. I was just
wondering because when you read through
like what we consider a manufactured
home you know it would have to meet some
requirements but I would assume that
would fall in some of those as far as
widths and length and square footage.
Manufactured home have to be higher
right but mobile and manufactured are
considered the same in our world.
But if she took the wheels off of it,
then it's just a little house, right? As
long as Right. That would have to be 320
ft.
Okay.
mention of the flowchart is that we
don't have anything for change of
use.
Not something that
require permit but could require site
plan. Um
So change of use of like a lot
change of use that let's say business
you want to turn into residential or
turn it from one form of business to
another form of
business. But if they're
not building anything there then it
might not really require permit.
Well, I think that would that be covered
if they went to get
a site because then we're going to have
to cover that at that time.
Again, I think it's kind of meant to be
an
overview. That's going to depend on what
they're applying for. Are they applying
for business? They apply for
residential.
Any change of use would trigger a site
plan? Yeah.
Um I don't know if that being
transferred to a single family residence
that would
require change of time because we don't
from a multi family.
A change of use for It's more than
I'm not sure.
Well, that's when you start getting like
the nitty-gritty. So, let's say build a
prototypes. They got offer single family
residence drawn on this lot. Let's say
it wasn't business. They go to board
cycle with the application board be
like, well, this be a business. You have
to do a change of
use. So, the board will cover that when
it comes to them. If let's say it's a
residential law currently, a house walk
into business they have to come
recycling like well right here
unfortunately needs a change of use and
then it gets covered by the boards that
you just
yeah but if it's but existing business
and they are transforming it into a
different category of the business then
it get covered when they come in and do
whatever probably wouldn't necessarily
be a permit associated with
I think there is though cuz when the
deli came in they had to check for
change just to hold them come in the
store come in. It wasn't a permit but
they had to come in. Yes. Exact.
Exactly. We got the starts at the
selector's office. That's where that
covered.
I don't know where you're going to put
it in here because you'd have to try to
figure out ahead of time what they're
doing. I think I don't I don't think it
ever required any
um
more blocks or anything. I think it
would just be
adding language inside another
box or something to direct it to
the planning board.
I think we've had one change of use in
the last what years. Yeah. I guess the
other issue is too, you know, you don't
know. So you drop down start here's
office determined permit type needed.
Drop down the building permit
types matter which way they go. We don't
know what the property currently is.
Technically both those need that note on
there because you don't
know you fault drop down sements drop
down the term building type need drop
down the building permit
types if you go right non-residential
commercial multif family could need a
change of use do you put it there or do
you go left residential solar single
family drone depend property before you
could put it there too or do you put it
in both spots
If it didn't need a permit, you wouldn't
even make it down to that line. Yeah,
that's the only That's a thing. So, go
ahead. Where do we put it? So, it has to
start at the selection's office. Just
keep it there. This way. Start at the
selection office. At that point, the
selection's office will determine where
it needs to go
next for a change of use. I think this
is a good overview for right now. Any
one change of use and
Yeah, I don't think that's an excuse to
not cover it, but
And then
we had um it midtone
autom came in and it recently decided
that it was not a change of view. Right.
They were selling traffic and
exactly traffic. Yeah. I
mean that had a building permit
associated with it.
That's what I think I think a lot of
that comes down to knowledge and knowing
that stuff. So you start office as long
as they're aware of that change of use
rule they can say hey this going to
apply not or if we don't know this is
board you should go to
I think this flowchart I think we're
looking at for our use the flowchart we
need to make sure we're making this for
the general public they're not going to
understand what change of use is they're
going to get confused go what is
that you know let's say you don't know
anything about zoning and you see change
of use what is
I want to change my to a bathroom. I
need a permit. Now, I think what we're
trying to avoid is is someone using this
as a document to say, well, it's not on
here and then arguing with the rest of
us. So, I think that maybe a disclaimer
at the bottom. I think it's going to
this is just a generalized
guidance to where you need to go does
not all inquiry start at the start
because problem is if you try getting
two like Jack's thing here I think you
get those three on there we talked about
you missed a couple others
well you didn't have them on there so I
mean I think you need to keep this as
simple as possible in general so it's
easier to say everything else there's
still other stuff just general that
covers everything without excluding
anything. Mhm. We have disclosures.
The other thing is I think we want to
keep this simple because this for
general public. Yes, definitely. We're
looking at this really fine tooth
because we know all these little things
makes sense to us to add it. Mhm. Was
you remember when general public put too
much out there
like just mad just a little confused and
the less confusion the less confused
they are when they come in the easier it
is for everyone to help them.
If they come in and say, "Hey, I need
building permits to go set." They go in,
they go, "Well, I start changing use.
What is this thing? What is that thing?
What is
conservation?" I think if we just keep
it simple,
when they come here, it will flow. Mhm.
That's my thoughts. I think just keep it
as simple as they go.
There probably should be some sort of
disclaimer at the bottom saying that
there are
circumstances I cover not here I'll let
some type of disclaimer will not cover
all legal avenues or
circumstances or circumstances like said
you could have a change you could have
an odd lot that has to go to ZBA first
or some way or be told hey this does not
performance do this you have have to go
here. It's not going to be on here
because I think that's I think the best
way to cover something's
office and if they don't know generally
they're pretty good at saying where this
is where you should
go anybody.
It does, but it does it gets pretty
specific about dimensional requirements
and all that in this flowchart already.
So, yeah, it's hard to say where to draw
the line.
Yeah. I mean, probably make this thing
six pages if you really want
to really confuse everybody. Yeah.
Ourselves. Wait, how do we add this? If
you want to do this, you have to go to
page three of our ordinance.
Starting to think you reach the end.
Please go back to something's office. We
lost ourselves.
So, we need a master plan for this.
Perfect. Um, anything else from anyone?
Uh, the selectman just for a quick
select update. Uh we are not meeting on
the 15th
um because myself and TJ going to be out
of town. I got I'm our military and TJ
is going to be out of town. So we're
meeting on the 29th for our second
meeting of May. And at that time we're
going to be going
over like
anformational that road thing that we
just talking about.
So, I'm trying to
think updates.
Yeah, let's go to 91 A 23 under legal.
91 A23 under legal.
First Oh, yeah. Do you want to close the
public hearing for I think we close it,
right? We did, but I'll say it and close
public hearing at 8:42 just to make sure
we're safe. And you have to vote to go
into your Y. It's a roll call vote. Call
vote. So, uh, yeah, we need one. So, 91A
23 for legal roll call votes start.
Yes. State your name. Oh, Jack. Yes. Did
you make a motion? I make motion. Uh,
yes or no. What is it? You say your name
and then say yes. Go into it or no.
Jerry, yes. Kyle Smith, yes. Jacob, yes.
Rose Hopkins, yes.