All towns · bradford

Planning Board

Video

It's seven o'clock.
It's seven o'clock.
It's seven o'clock.
It's seven o'clock.
We're going to start the same word me.
It's the camera.
Go on.
Yes.
It's June 23rd.
Thank you.
So we roll call, Carol Knightie.
Kelly Ayes.
First, I want to eat me to chase often it.
Is there for Griffin?
Chippee.
I want to see for Kathleen
to review and approve from a minute.
Motion to accept it.
Second.
All in favor?
Aye.
So we've had two applications before,
it's too many.
Tom.
Yep.
Would you like?
Roeke.
Yep.
So this is a conceptual consultation, so
and there's things that the planning were fed or like the developer says
on me.
So you guys, we know that.
Okay.
That's for you guys.
I know there's a very stuff.
I just got this turning in the road.
They got off.
any crew have us, so they'll get this one.
The rest of you do it.
Do the door.
Right.
It's going to exit.
Okay.
All right, yeah.
Thank you.
Yep.
The second door on the left.
Thank you.
Okay.
So we've been, John Rokey with Rokey
I'm here on behalf of Mapleville
Mapleville development.
Scott Boose here is the owner.
And he's the owner.
this evening as well. So we came to see you guys one other time before in the
Paul. We had not done a survey at the time. So at this point we completed the
survey at Barlett, updated everything, updated all the wetlands. We have an up-to-date
survey and update wetlands at this point. I had, I had, we had done, what we want to do
as cluster development. So what the first part of doing cluster development, you have
to do a conventional layout of the site and
make sure that your where you're yield that you can get for a conventional layout works,
and then you go, then you can go to the cluster.
So what we've done is we did a layout of a conventional development.
Bartlett has gone through and did the lot comps based on the development regs of Bradford.
We have a roadway system that works according to regulations.
Gold sack is the right length. Everything works conventionally.
Proper frontage, proper acreage.
proper acreage, proper buildable, you know, without the steep and wet.
And we come up with 12 lots.
So then we go to, what we want to do is apply that to a cluster development,
where we do the shorter road, we do the smaller lots.
I've gone through and Bartlett double-checked all the calculations on this as well,
like the size of the lot, the lot loading, the soils,
like making sure that all of these would meet state subdivision.
state subdivision approval.
Each one of them would need state subdivision approval for the development.
So we designed a road that comes, go ahead.
You don't have state subdivision.
No, no, no, the word of first concept right now.
Yeah, but, but I want, the reason why, like I've kind of been trying to get on your agenda for a while
and I've just, I've been refining it more and more, and I wanted to make sure I kind of had everything
decided, everything figured out.
So I had Bartlett go a little bit further with it before we came to see you.
So I know that both my conventional and my cluster will work according to state regulations.
It went through your regulations, made sure that all the areas added up,
the lot frontages, everything works with all the different regulations.
Richard Bartlett,
and associate, she's the surveyor, and they just actually got hot out by another company.
So now they're under somebody else's umbrella, but they still, they're still,
using the Richard Bartlett name as a survey area.
So what we did is we designed a road.
My initial plan that I showed you guys before, I had a road going right kind of down the middle,
and I had lots on both sides, and that just wasn't laying out well once we did the final
wetlands and making sure we had the 100-foot setback from the wetland for any structures.
So what we did is we have the 50-foot boundary that goes around the hole outside.
We put the road, so the road goes up.
close to that 50-foot boundary and then we put all blots as you come in as walkouts going
down towards the wetland area and then around the cul-de-sac down in the end and what we did we did
this as open drainage so there's there's pipes that you know take it across the road and get to a
detention pond down here and down into a detention pond basically in the center of the cul-de-sac
the way this works out um your regulations call for
a 200-foot diameter like if it's a dead-ed road a 200-foot diameter so that's enormous that's why the cul-de-sac
looks so big because that's what your regulations call for but what that does is it gives you the
opportunity actually in the green space it's big enough to actually do a detention pond in so i had
designed it that way uh but so what we did is we did the the lot each of each of these lots i have i have
have some of them they get up near an acre but most of them are
like 70 75 you know 0.75.6 they're uh over half acre on on all of them but a little like a bit
under an acre on all of them as well what i did is i made sure we stayed 100 feet away from the this is the
delineated wetland now the updated wetland delineation so i have plenty of room for the the the 100-foot line
goes like right here so essentially what i did is i kept our our cut line like at the 100-foot line
so each one of these has a septic it has a well septic and a well that's why you're seeing like the waviness to the rear rear of my uh you know developed lot area the wells are generally all in the back and the septics are generally all in front
but by doing all this it everything lays in we leave we leave all of this area open space we have open space all the way around the outside
um there's nothing that prevents me from making these lots a lot bigger
I mean I could I could extend the lot line out like past the wetland and around and just make them just arbitrarily bigger but I'm deliberately keeping them small to make sure that the people don't own the wetland
you know trying to prevent people from saying well I own the land so why can't I go out into the wetland so I kept everything I kept all the lot lines basically about 50 feet away from the wetland so that's the reason why I kind of tried to balance the lot size with making
making sure that the open space was protected a little bit better with what we're doing your regulation calls for 1,000 feet of the of the roadways so basically the way I have this done right now the thousand foot comes like right about into the center a little bit past the center of the cul-de-sac so I don't know if your regulation is meant to say like you come down to the very tip of the road a thousand feet and if that's the case I mean I just have to adjust it a little bit before I do the final submittal
That's a question I have for you guys tonight.
Yeah, I think it's a fast-and-putt all together
from the roadway to the end of the cul-de-sac.
To the very end of the tip of the cul-de-sac.
So if I come down there, come around, and there's the one plus zero-zero at the end of the cul-de-sac,
that's the regulation.
Okay, that's fine.
I can make that work with the frontages.
Previous.
Okay, that's fine.
We have, we have.
We have enough frontage and we have enough, everything works regardless.
With, with, actually, if you come down here, the, I think the thousand foot is actually right there,
so I just have to shift it down and around until the end.
Are there any of these?
No.
The wetland is only right along in here.
There's no wetlands at all in the center part here.
So there's no wetland.
And that's what I was saying.
I arbitrarily kept the lot short to stay out of the wetland at all.
Yep.
you might have two or more acres, but would you have two milling?
Nope.
Nope.
I do.
Bartley went through all that, that whole calculation.
Yep.
Yep.
So this is my conventional layout where they did the buildable,
like they calculated out the buildable area on each lot.
Okay.
Yep.
And then when I go to the cluster development,
then I don't have any wellings in those areas regardless.
So, of course, all good.
I did.
Yeah, there's two other shows.
on there. I did like kind of a close-up grading plan of everything so you can kind of see what
everything looks like a little bit more close up, what the ditches look like, what the, you know, the grading looks like in the detention pond.
And then I did a third sheet where we did the road profile as well.
So we'll all this together for me.
So in terms of the road profile, because we're going along kind of with the grade, the steepest slope is 4% on the road.
So the road is four percent.
very reasonable. And one of the questions that we also have for you this evening is
we're doing open drainage and Scott wanted to do it as a gravel road rather than a paved road.
So the question, he said it right, but the question is, is this is going to be a town road or private road?
It's probably approached at how we need to accept it.
Which they almost never do.
I took over Maplewood Drive.
make when you drive after it was already approved.
And it was already three or four homes up there.
It was a private road to keep trying to come back.
And it was a gravel road at the time.
And still, well, I paved it.
But now it's a private road.
Your specs call for what?
Groundwork payment.
That was a question I had to the board.
There is a section that calls for, like, what you need to do for gravel.
Like, you have to have a certain, like,
traffic count, like you call for, like,
you call for, like, traffic counts.
or whether you can do a gravel road or not.
I would think, just generally, I would say if the intent is to make this
the town, the last five road,
you would need to build it to the town's standards.
Yep.
And I think before they would, before Tom,
me and would say, yeah, we'll take that on.
Yeah, I already planned on that.
I guess the question falls and if I paid you,
which I don't have a problem paying it.
Problem falls, 15 years and now, the homeowner is having
have, own it, the payment's falling apart,
and then it becomes a problem.
Yep.
That's fine.
So, that's, which way to go?
Yeah, I mean, it's tough to predict how town meeting would go.
They said no to make it will be honest,
because the people tell that they go over here,
they keep saying no, and I had nothing to do it
by built all the houses, some of them already food.
I just, yeah, I mean, I guess, I would never predict
how the governing body would vote.
But if it were me, if it were me, I would,
I would want to set it up so that it's, you know,
there's no, like, yeah, we'll approve it if, right,
scenarios.
I won't build the town's back.
No, I know that, but paid versus not.
Yeah.
I think they're more likely to approve it if it's paid,
but again, I don't have a problem.
I just know that people I made you a poll meeting
would have said no.
And when I paved in 10 year, 15 years now,
if it's been paid it, then I'll almost have to come up
with the problem.
Actually, you know what?
You may want to bounce it off the road agent.
Talk to the road agent to see what he would prefer.
Because I would imagine that we carry more weight
at top meeting if the road agent says,
yeah, you know what, this is gravel,
the maintenance cost is going to be lower for us,
like those types of things.
I would check with him first.
We could do that.
I prefer to pay them, but gravel's a lot cheaper to maintain.
And if the home oil association doesn't have the money,
to repay it, they can grade it's very cheap.
you put the way.
Paves hard to read grade.
Yeah.
That was my thought pattern.
Yeah.
And it really carried the way.
Yeah.
The regulations call for even if you are gravel road,
you have to have it set up wide enough with shoulders
and to be able to pave it in the long run.
So that actually sets up a question now is making no time.
And so first on the open is taking that first.
It's one contiguous parcel it looks like.
it looks like. Did you know, so it's a two-part question. So part one is on the open space.
Did you invent, who did you envision, like, managing it? And then the second question,
that's a client's what you're just describing. Would you be looking at, like, a homeowners association?
That's why I normally said. I only do questions, the homeless,
that are planning developments. And most of the town doesn't want to take the land.
So it goes back to Homo associations, which I said, which maybe you never have.
which I set up, and everyone owns 112 in the open space.
And the rules are you can't cut anything, you can't do anything on.
But yeah.
All homeowners own 112 will be open space.
Okay.
So they want to make a walking path.
They have to vote on the majority of minutes.
Yeah.
So it sounds like probably a homeowners association,
which would include into your road maintenance thing
until that time.
I mean,
Well, people don't have tax you.
First thing, they take on the road tax you go.
People say, no, they raise these taxes, no.
They're just being unlawful.
Yeah, I know that makes sense.
I would just say, John, for your design, just, and I'm sure you are,
just anticipate what the maximum with, you know, gravel versus paid
right away.
So that maybe it ends up becoming, like, just for instance,
you could do the gravel, and then maybe the homeowners association
takes it to town meeting 20 years from now.
They have the width to make it paid if that's what they want, but.
Rule bills are the pounds specs.
Yeah, they'll leave it at gravel as a break the second before I talk to the roby.
Yeah.
Must the Plainwood has better ideas.
You know, I think he's not for gravel.
I would, and I would say, too, that they're probably going to have, you know,
the town's engineer look at it, and we'll get that feedback to the railing,
what they suggest.
It's really simple real.
Really simple robots, really flag, the bills are almost.
That's good.
You know, just another thought, too, on the open space.
You know how to opt it off Conservation Commission,
just to kind of see if they're like, oh, yeah, you know.
Oh, absolutely.
They want, they can have it.
Yeah.
Not wrong.
Maybe counts as known it.
Yeah.
They tend to, yeah.
But.
My ideas anyway.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep.
That's essentially everything I had to present anyway.
Definitely welcome anything you guys.
Just have any questions?
Have any questions?
I can go right quick one.
I know that that's a...
Okay, thank you.
Okay.
Okay.
You can't say the name or where you're from.
Sure.
It's 127 on Worn Road on about her to this property.
I'm just curious, like, I know if that's a fine wildlife corridor, it's mass as that, like,
most recently, like, two years ago.
Are there any implications with, like, development and that, or do you guys get...
Yes.
Well, there's a lot of open space stuff, one, two-thirds of properties still left wood.
Right, but there's like a yellow strip right between, you know,
you know.
Yeah, that's the update.
I think we talked about this.
You were at the prior meeting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we did have the wetland scientists go out and take a look at everything and re-delineated wetlands.
And that's why we, that's why we kept the lots.
When we re-designed it, we kept the lots out and away from it.
So that whole area remains completely untouched.
When you are assuming we go forward with this cluster development or any of the development,
keep your equipment out of the wetlands?
Yeah, by doing it the way we're doing it, nothing ever gets down in that area at all.
Yeah, the state remains completely untouched.
And that's why I kept the lot lines back in a way also.
That way the homeowners aren't like, well, I own down in there, I can go clear it.
You know, that seems like if they think they can, they will.
So...
I'm just curious, what month was the delineation done?
It was done.
We were here last fall, and we did it.
I think the delineation was done before.
before, like right after that.
Just before snowed.
Yeah.
So we got it out of snowed.
Yeah.
Good.
No, I like this plan.
I think it looks good.
I just wasn't sure if the fact that the state has mapped that as a prime mile like forward
or if that is going to like throw wrenching your plants.
But I think it looks really good and honestly.
Yeah, no.
If you remember the last one, we really cleaned it up and kind of shifted the way the road is
and kept the houses away from the wetlands a lot further.
And this works out a lot nicer.
Yeah, that looks good.
Hi.
I asked one of the seven board members before this meeting.
They, some of them had some concern about all these septic systems being so close to one hundred and
what would happen is some kind of heavy weighing events, you know, are they going to fail?
No.
No.
Some of them suggested, you know, not a community specific, but not a community, but a, you know,
some of the lines that are closer to the wetland use and combine their septic systems into one.
Well, the reason why I kept the septic's further away to prevent any of those issues.
So what you're looking at here is the 4K area.
The septic, the actual septic is like one-fourth of the size or smaller.
So like the septic is not going to be a big footprint on the lot in front of the house.
So you'll have your front yard, you'll have your septic in the front.
and your well is down back.
If I deliberately kept the septic not putting them back where if anything fails to go like to the wetland,
but these lots are all big enough according to the same Hampshire regulations to support a septic
and a well on the lot.
So they're definitely big enough.
With clusters, it seems like everything's close together, but it definitely has enough room to have individual for each one.
And it's way, it's much more simple because if you start going to community,
then you're automatically like carrying multiple septics down the multiple septic lines
like down across other lots and you have cross-easements with other houses and then you end up having to have a big septic
somewhere low down on the site and that that's I think it seems like it's worse in terms of you know
concentrating everything where it can fail.
And so I think the fire, he's not here and you didn't have a chance to make any comments to the
record, but if I would call them last one, he would want a cistern, um, cistern or, or sprinkler
systems. Yeah.
Yeah. We had to talk about, so I don't know if I don't think of the word. Yeah. Yeah. So I would speak to him.
We can, we can find out from him. Yeah. What he, and also he'll kill that, comments back the right to
to the wrong. Yep. Yep. Yeah, with it, with this large of a requirement, the fire trucks make it around.
No problem. Nobody, nobody has this big of a cold.
Actually.
Do you have to put a turning template on that?
What's that?
You don't even have to put a turning template on that?
No, definitely not.
They'll make it.
I got a question about the community sources.
I try to stay away for them.
Because a lot of bickering goes on.
You're washing your dog too much.
You're washing.
You're using the washing machine.
The leach fields fail now.
It's more.
You're fault.
So I keep thinking individuals, everyone owns their own property.
So there's no issues.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's also, like, who's staying on.
Right.
That's like...
I just want to throw it up...
Yeah, I just want to throw it up to my side of store.
People want to own their own stuff.
That's where I like it.
How many bedrooms are these homes?
Three bedroom houses.
Three bedroom?
That's standard.
There's a little further down the line, I think, but this is in kind of close proximity to the dump.
Do you guys know anything about water testing for, like, P-FAS,
stoxing, that kind of stuff?
I don't think.
Where's the dump downstream or upstream from it?
I guess I don't exactly which direction it is.
I believe the dump is going to get downhill, but those are, they have water community so they can travel uphill.
It is definitely a loss in the last subdivision, the state's pain problems, things.
Yep.
I can look at what the proximity is and just at least call that time.
So I want to make sure there are...
to show you the direction we were going with it and try to show you what we were doing to try to, you know,
other things you get.
There was a lot of things that we had talked about before where the houses were closer and, you know,
things were a little bit different on the first round.
So I wanted to show you how we were improving it before we make the full semester.
Yeah, and I really, I do appreciate what we've done there.
I appreciate how much more buffer your giving the neighbors and also respect for the weapon.
So, you know what else?
Okay.
Sounds good?
Okay.
I have a question.
There is a little space on the left side.
Yep.
Now, are you going to divide that up as ownership between all different properties or is it?
So this and the buffer all the way around the outside, everything would just be one-to-well.
Like there wouldn't be any, like, division lines or anything like that.
It would just be 112th of the ownership is with each house.
So if they want to do, like a walk path where they, you know, go on the ground, then they just contribute one's all.
Yep.
And so, and what are you conditioning as you're going to let the Homer Association decide what the rules are?
I won't make the rules, but I mean, it's very common with, like, no trash in the odd, no unregistered vehicles.
The open space is left virgin, I guess.
Can't cut any of trees in it.
There's a special form of the state you file.
file and then says you can't do anything in the open space besides make a walking path.
Okay.
Yep.
Yep.
Thank you.
Okay.
Thank you very much for your time.
Where it was it.
Have good evening.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks for getting me in.
I heard it.
I opened the email this morning.
I had a meeting last night and I opened the email this morning.
I'm like, tonight!
Tonight!
On my way!
Okay.
That was all perfect.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You are
here for
for
perfect.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
You.
You
are here
for
additional
consultations.
So
So I'm Dan Breska.
I'm the landscape architect.
I live in Sinepike.
Aaron and I work together.
We're working for the Salazar's here, Dan and Allison.
So they own a piece of property on East Shore Drive.
And they would like to, the existing house doesn't fit what they would like to have for a house for long term.
So we're trying to figure out how to, how to build a new house
within your regulations.
By the way, this is Randall Walter behind here
and these architecture projects.
So, I have to apologize.
You don't have a screen or an easel,
but I have three sets of plants, so I was going to put them in front of you guys.
And then we went in.
So that
is what exists.
That's proposed,
but I just want to show you the existing
structures or in
that. Yeah, but if you want to
flip it.
For that page, you can see what exactly exists now.
And then, sorry, I'll give each guy here a plan.
Yes.
Oh, yeah, so there's a whole project that exists.
So one of, and I apologize, so this project needs your guys,
is glad we have to work with you, and we have to work with the zoning board.
So some of what I say might just, like, might like, go talk to the zoning board,
but I just, I guess I want to present the project.
So, and then I don't remember when exactly your rules changed, but the new building setback in this region is a hundred and twenty-five feet.
So there is no per the regulations. There's zero unbuildable.
Sure.
So I said you can make sense.
Which it looks like you're going to do.
And I appreciate that.
Well, so.
Perfect. Perfect.
Perfect.
Well, we did. So, like, you guys have slightly different zones, if you will, setbacks than the state.
But we built this, we built these tables for you guys.
So, I'm having trouble.
So we hadn't given this breakdown to the zoning board last time.
They wanted to know each, you know, how big are the house and decks, how many square feet, garage, you know, driveways, walkways, patios.
They wanted to know the breakdown.
We just had purvey as the impasse.
the impervious. But then in this area, so you have your zero to 25 foot set back.
That's right up by the lake. We're going to say that's the most critical area, right?
So essentially, like, the big picture is, I guess what we're proposing is, could we have a bit more
overall disturbance if it's pulled back?
What do you mean to get more overall disturbing?
Well, no, I don't really actually, I might have said that wrong.
You have less pervious.
So, yeah, yeah, let me re-craft that statement.
So we're proposing to make the impervious, what's existing impervious, that'll be like
driveway, landscape, walkway, patios.
We want to make those pervious.
And then the house itself,
basically pulls back a bit. Right now it's basically forced into this corner of the lot.
And I don't know if you look at it here. The road, there's a hill right here.
There's 12 foot of elevation change between here and here.
And then another six feet back to here. So it's like the top of the hill.
And the house is basically shoehorned up against the lake shore.
in this area. And so essentially what we're trying to figure out is how do we work
within your regulations for these guys to get what they're looking for?
Yeah.
Yeah. So this area right here is trees and wooded. This area is disturbed and eroded. This
area is disturbed and eroding into the lake. We have an existing driveway over here,
and the way everything is graded. It just is washing.
the road the water from the road just washes absolutely so sorry part of let me
step backwards so we would do a re-vegetation plan for it would be landscaped it would be
planted we'd do a stormwater management plan absolutely absolutely yep there would be
a full stormwater plan infiltration etc I guess we haven't we haven't we haven't even
gotten that far. We haven't spent the time to do all of that yet because we're trying
to figure out, can we do this? Can we even do this? Is it worth our time?
Well, okay. Yeah. Sure.
I agree with that and so does Matt, because Matt oversees us and make sure. Yeah, yeah,
absolutely. Yeah. My take is that if you're, if this is going to make less and furby
surface, and that means your walkways and stuff are going to be a
have to be practically because we all know that travel can be, oh, it's just impervious, as a road.
Yep.
Yep. Yeah. You're in a plant a distressed area of native plants, and, you know, it's probably, if you can get the variances, which I'll have to get from the zoning board.
Yep. Okay. We, we, uh, this is all. Yeah, yeah.
We went to the zoning board last month. It's kind of the same way. What do you?
That's good. And they at least gave us some feedback. They wanted on the existing plan.
There's a piece of the area. And we gave them the breakdown on, you were located, and we gave them the breakdown on, you know, house deck. We broke that down. So just a few thoughts as you're talking, right? Like, so there's kind of a sandwich two. There's kind of a sandwich two.
districts coming together here. There's the base zone district, which is your setback issue
towards the road. And then there's the sward, which is what you're really doing a lot of your design for.
And like, like Carol said, you're pulling, you're decreasing your impervious, which is consistent with the intent of that forward.
And even though it's small, you're doing that. Secondly, you're pulling it back. You're pulling this structure back, and you're definitely pulling this structure back. And you're definitely pulling this structure.
back and you're so I mean that's all good and you're talking about doing
replanting you're talking about all the vegetation you're going to add yep this is
would this would be our first SWOD CU since adopting it yep and I think in terms of
you know the type of design you'd like to see this is probably pretty good you're you're
improving the situation we weren't quite sure by reading your rules we were kind of like
yeah so we'll walk through it together and fire away with any questions that you have
like shooting email and just say hey yeah what does this mean and we can oh like we're saying
this is the first one okay um but yeah we want it done right yeah yeah you're gonna be our
and saying we're great and if you're improving well we do so it so it it uh what is criteria for
conditional use yeah yeah sorry
So the criteria to grant it, let's see here.
It's written in your museum.
It's written in your scene.
I need to read it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's
I can read to you if you want there's right.
Well, I just, you know, we have it.
I just wanted to see if this is a good format to go through those as criteria to say, okay, you know,
in the spirit of each of those criteria.
how do we feel?
Not, we're not, I know it's not minding,
but fundamentally, is that how the official version would go?
Yeah, so, so for
in our first ever, for any
any condition of use permit,
they have their standards, whatever those might be,
they tell you what an application consists of,
and they'll say these are them
to be demonstrated to see the planning for it.
Okay.
They have it to ramp it.
And they do walk through it.
use one, you know.
So we should plan to do that for the...
100%.
The best thing you don't want to do is a narrative
pictures, right?
Like a narrative that literally just says, you know,
thing number one, blah, blah, blah, blah,
that's how we meet it, and so on, right?
You've got the pictures, you've got the narrative, you got the plan.
Yeah, that's what we're paying for you.
So, yeah.
Do...
Order of operations, we have to go to the zoning board first.
zoning board first because we can't really...
I would start...
It doesn't even matter until...
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Yep.
And I would talk about, like, you've already showed down this plan,
I think that's part of, like,
the substantial justice piece is
you're pulling this stuff back.
There's actually, in the SWAT itself,
there's a section that we wrote, knowing the lots were smaller.
If you could do a law line adjustment, not saying,
and not saying you need to do this, but as a, for instance,
to see what it's thinking is,
if you have a smaller lot that's substandard
and you're able to add land to it,
you can decrease your road setback, right?
Make you a lot bigger.
You can go closer to the road.
You're kind of doing that without making a lot bigger here, right?
Yeah, that's the first thing I looked at.
Yeah, trying to pull it.
I said, oh, what's the,
because I remember that thing in there,
and I said, what is it actually?
say it said make it bigger and you guys have a smaller lot but you're
pulling closer in the road so we have three existing buildings and we're proposing
three buildings is it is it worth looking at those individually or more as a group
and there's a garage here that's right on a drainage existing drainage where the
there's a culvert that comes through here the floor of the garage slopes by three feet right
it's not viable there's that we've talked a lot about the house ship you don't have to do the
marble festival we'd have to do the forced Jedi thing so we've talked a lot about the house and in this
building we want to preserve yeah it's a it's a it's a charming little cabin yeah and so our
is to save that but yeah for the purposes of the design it's not ideal in its location but we're
still making it more conforming in its new location this is this how many feet is that just like
two and a half two and a half but you're picking up a building and moving it to accomplish a two and a half
foot push back to the road well while we have it up we might as well yeah that's yeah that's i mean that's
kind of that's do you think look the narrative could go sort of building by building i yeah it's probably
not not a bad idea and i see here where you've got you know this corner so is the is there an existing
garage there it's the dotted it's that square so it's smaller than the proposed but it's also
problematically on the drainage pipe is something counts it's a stream it's not a it's not a it's not a listed water bottom
but it's a culvert it's a town culvert it was flowing water tonight we have we have so we have so let's see what the survey are put on here we have so let's see what the survey put on here this isn't all of the survey data that he got so we might not have yet we might not have yet we might not have
we might have to be a little bit oh yeah there's the garage so i mean it's next to the road and on the property line and yeah yeah the only thing
i mean this all this is within the infill footprint it's only this little corner just to see if it says anything about that i don't know
there's a set of things the planning board cannot grant a relief from and i just want to see if it's that because it would be to the zoning board with that as well
as well but let me just check yeah just this small corner but um is that the 50 foot well so i assume
this is your existing footprint right for the garage well part of that well that it's about yeah so it's like
your current garage stops here and this is sliding closer quote unquote to the lake but i just want to see
so that's 50 feet that's like 50 feet um i just want to see what how relief is granted on that or so
that's how that's addressed i think it's zoning board it so we looked at it as the whole thing i guess
with with those charts and basically what we were trying to say was overall we're moving the
development back which further from the water um but i hear there from the water um but i hear
you're saying you know like hey that corner is there but but but right now the whole house
is right here you know and so uh yeah yeah this is massive like this here that's so
in the spirit and intent of the swad like this is role model stuff here for a good first application
um but yeah just in your in your variant stuff just make sure you cover everything that's
okay that's changing yeah that yeah so hit it like you know so it's something's all non-conforming
well that's why we put this is so you can't even my sense you can't know well that's the thing too is
the non-conformity if you stay within the existing footprint you don't need a variance but here's the
problem you guys are approving it by coming out of the footprint right um so the the footprint
ramble could talk about this but the existing so it's 25 feet so they may be out of it already but that you guys are really you're really concerned with the you know that within 25 is yeah you know you're really trying to stay out yeah so i don't so maybe this doesn't maybe this is not a swad issue okay it may be just a
straight up front set back right so if that's the case all correct we have our own stuff
yeah yeah yeah but if you get the variance for all your dark right yeah yeah but if you get the variance
for all your dark green like stuff here you're fine yeah but that's we're just dealing with the
squad and that you know pulling it back that's huge i don't think you get
get my garage a little further with my culvert is well good for us as well yeah lots of substantial justice
right you don't appreciate that reference um say i have uh and this is a change of topic a little bit
sure and i i i i my home is on the west shore it's on the west shore of the lake okay
okay and i've been following what goes on on the lake has to see from off and on since 1948
i'm an old guy um but um late masticus sepum is known to flood and i'm not sure how long you've owned the land uh just a couple years
just a few years yeah this is the duffet's old property do you know the duffet family no i don't know the specific property although i've walked up and down
east shore drive a number of times when i was a little younger but but lake masecum is known for a
lot of fluctuation in the water land you learn that the hard way and i'm sorry you learned that
because your existing home may have been flooded it's one kind of this is this is actually up yeah it's
it's up that's what i was getting at 10 feet or so from the water level the local surveys uh know a lot
this and there is an established average lake level which the survey is conformed to but um the highest water in i believe in my lifetime is the mother state flood of 2006 yeah and so if there's a watermark for the flood of 2006 just some friendly advice would be to try to stay above that level okay okay for your
well we're everything we're doing is actually elevating things at the same time as it's moving them back
so nothing nothing will be lower than what it was and and that's the point but i just i just wanted to mention that
um my whole for example is all up on piers and uh and it was go well before the mother states letters 2006 and i wish that had felt it's sweeping hot oh wow got it well we can i'm sure we can look up with what yeah yeah we'll look
We'll look it up.
I don't.
Just one other question about conditional use.
Is there any component of architectural or visual as part of contingent conditional use?
I suspect that's more so.
You want to see architectural plan?
Well, no.
Randall wants to show it.
No, no, no.
I don't think anything.
I don't know.
I don't just plain.
A, play.
Yeah, but that's always that phrase that's, it's a,
phrase that's ambiguous.
If it would help you guys to see them, we're happy to provide you know.
If you don't want to see him, we won't provide.
Yeah.
Well, except for if they're not, I mean, we don't want to be judged on them.
This is about impact.
Yeah.
So, I mean, it's just ambiguous.
That's what I read before.
It says, A plan.
Yeah, I don't really care what your house is like.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, we'll bring them, but we won't make them part of the formal submission.
formal submission.
I mean, it could help show like a, you know, here's what it is now.
There's what it will be when it's back.
Like, just to kind of...
I don't have much drawing with what's there.
The plan is the most impact for that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The house is long and narrow and the ceiling.
The ceilings are short, and Randall can talk to you about it.
You can't fix that.
Like, you can't renovate an existing house when the ceilings are too short.
short. It's a home that was really conceived of probably in a series of four or five
additions. It curves. That's a nice curve. It's going into it. And probably a lot of
homeowner special moves. So we've evaluated it and I think of most of our first
instincts are always to see if there's something worth saving. And the answer to that is
this building right here. We found something. But we found something. But
No, it's, I mean, we're not going to dig deeply into that because it's not...
It would be very difficult to meet current energy standards.
It would be very difficult to create a home.
This is going to be a full-time residence.
So notions of aging in place would be nearly impossible given widths
and uneven floors in the existing building.
So sadly, sadly, you have to move on.
Your house may not like that.
But, yeah, it's a challenge.
Okay, I think we...
That's helpful.
That's awesome.
I want to get things mostly established where you have to come back in place.
Right, no.
Yeah.
I don't know what kind of things you have, whether to be...
We'll do it, a plant.
Okay.
Yep.
Yep. Yep.
Yep. And do you prefer presentation on an easel, or can we use the screen?
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
You don't want to provide it.
Okay.
Have you made permission for snow storage?
talking about that just earlier so this this property is interesting we're getting to
uniqueness the amount of land they have on this side basically it's bisected by the road and the new driveway
design offers a couple of opportunities for snow storage and snow clearing one may
simply be a snow blower yeah rather than a snow plow so we're talking about those
strategies because snow plowing can be very difficult
been to snow anymore.
That's awesome.
As this year, I mean, like, sincerely overcroft.
But they do make snow, so, yeah.
But yeah, so I think it'll be a probably a new mix of snow blowing
so we don't end up with those.
I mean, it is possible to push some snow strength,
but pulling out away from garages is never fun, I don't think.
That's a great question.
We are a four season in reality.
Thank you.
Oh, great.
Thank you.
Should I collect these?
I don't know if they'll be the same next time you see them or not.
Okay.
I don't want to confuse you guys.
Oh, you want a set of these?
Oh, no.
You want a set of those?
No, I don't know.
No.
No.
You can help to use the screen of these.
You can help to use the screen.
The screen, I connect to it.
I like...
Yeah, I can't we...
We could you set of a laptop with a H.D.M.I.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
It's the screen that...
Okay.
Great.
Thank you all.
Yep.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Okay.
Our screen is on cover.
Coverts.
Okay.
So.
So...
Okay, so the way things that's 26, column 133, which is really where it lays out, who is responsible for our culverts on private, property, private driveways.
The planning board is actually the body that controls those unless they,
appointed designee, which can be meet, the select board, the road agent.
It's called, what's the RSA, just by can grab it?
RSA 236, Column 136, it's a part of 236 to that.
Okay.
And I, um, I talked to town council about this.
We, we have various culvert issues, um, around town that come up.
from time to time, we have people with family culverts.
And as we are doing other road improvements, you know,
we're replacing our own culverts that the town is responsible for.
In fact, we're doing five or six out on West Road right now.
But we want to be able to enforce the RSA that gives the town the authority
to force the private property owners with failed culverts that are impacting our
roads because of excessive rock or because their culvert is plugged it forces the water
over the road or it undermines the road and our concern is that we're spending you know this year
over half million dollars on resurfacing every year that we do that we don't want a year later to
find that the road has been undermined by a feeling culvert so Steve Hall you know started
identifying some of the issues before he retent, semi-retired, and now Justin is taken over.
And we want to be able to be in a position that if we have to force a property owner to
replace their culvert, that the appropriate body approaches them, you have to write a letter, et cetera.
And the town council gave you a list of the criteria that we would have to use in a letter referencing the RSA in our authority.
And it really comes down to is that something that the planning board would like to take on or would
like it to be handled by the select board, the town administrator, and or the road agent to write those letters
deal with the enforcement work with town council that we have to go to court.
In critical situations, if we don't get immediate cooperation from a property owner,
the law allows us to replace the culvert and then bill the property owner for the cost of doing that.
And then they collect and I can sometimes be going to court to collect and I can sometimes be going to court to collect.
going to court to collect, but it gives the time of the mechanism to fix the culvert issues
and preserve the roads, make the roads safer, especially, you know, when the concerns I have
that the field of culverts is in the winter, you get excess runoff onto the roads and it freezes,
and we end up with these big ice patches that we then have to spend money to treat.
And, you know, we just want to process in place so that we can conveniently go out
and take care of these issues and give people a reasonable amount of time to correct the issue.
And the law is pretty clear that they're responsible for maintaining their culverts.
I want to be in my driveway that I have to keep claim.
Otherwise, my neighbor gets really upset with me because it backs up and flows into his basement.
So, you know, every property owner has the due diligence.
the due diligence, you know, by law, to take care of their culverts.
So it's really up to planning board whether they would like to delegate that responsibility to somebody else in town.
And we would be happy to follow through on it.
And we're in a regional town council on a variety of issues anyway.
So, you know, I think this is one of those things that once we,
we draft up the letter. It's pretty much going to be a form letter.
The only that's going to change is the property address and we'll be able to be, you know,
citing the same law, same authority to, you know, take care of issues.
And so that's kind of where we're at.
And I'm bringing this to you so you can decide whether you want to retain that responsibility or like,
or like...
So my...
I've heard to talk to Scott about this.
And my thought is that you can't go through the store
there anyway, but the whole lot
so we might as well that Scott and the road agent
to take on the culberts.
I mean so.
Because he's not going to be driving around and get his culverts.
Certainly, I'm not.
I've put it enough culverts already since I didn't happen.
So I'm going to be general.
And so...
And so...
I thought it was with the planning board approval we would have a mascot and the agent.
It's kind of odd the loss spells out the planning board as managing that.
Yeah.
It must be in charge of driveway.
Well, I think that's where it comes from is the driveway piece of it
that the driveway piece of it that the planning board handles because,
in most cases, the select board or the road agent that has control of the roads.
But since these are structures,
structures that are on private property on a driveway that you folks would approve in theory.
I think that's why it ended up here.
But you never know what the state legislature is thinking when they pass some of these IRS states.
We just have to live with the results.
You said that out, wow?
I'm not afraid.
So I need a motion and a...
I need a vote.
I make a motion that's got town manager and...
town manager and road agent see to the delinquent culverts.
I second.
On paper.
Aye.
Aye.
It's yours.
All right.
I don't know whether I should thank you or not.
Yes.
So if we know a place that seems like it should have a culvert, what can we do?
Do you tell you?
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah.
tell me or tell Justin and, you know, we'll go out and look at the situation.
Justin's the road agent.
The road agent.
Justin, Fitzgerald.
Yeah.
So, and, you know, we'll determine whether it's, you know, interfering with our roads.
You know, one of the things that we have to do is be able to identify
that there's a real hazard there for, you know, for the public weight.
And, you know, it looks like it's an issue then we had started to dialogue with the land owner.
landowner, you know, there were a couple that we were looking at that were problematic.
Justin already had a conversation with them and they are amenable to taking care of it.
So it saves us a lot of trouble.
You know, obviously, first path is always just reach out to the property owner and explain to them
what the situation is and most people are reasonable and want to take care of it and understand their responsibility.
So I thank you for that.
Thank you for taking on that.
So, yeah, well, it's, like I said, I think once, you know, we've been dealing with some of these issues in our office anyway right now that we're struggling with.
And, you know, we've already done a lot of the background work on this.
So I think we're prepared to start making some moves.
Sounds good.
So, so, um, um,
I mean,
I don't want to be mixing.
So the FEMA, um,
Right.
What if it was decided about that?
Do you have to have a special one?
We do not.
So thanks to Matt.
We, and, and, uh,
that's our hero.
Yeah.
And, um, doing some more research on that,
we had the select board last sign
a resolution to adopt the new flood ordinance,
which you were going to be considering that Matt has drafted.
and that
pretty much
negates the need for a special town meeting,
which is great because we didn't budget for one.
Obviously, if we had to have one, we would make it work.
But this process allows us to
give compliance with FEMA and the flood maps
and have our ordinance
be in compliance with their wishes without going through the whole process
and meeting the legislative body to actually vote.
So.
Yeah, so they just adopted the new map references
and I can plug those in and send you the draft and we're done.
Okay, excellent.
And I'll forward the resolution to Stephanie
and which you can put that in her.
Yeah.
And then just let us know if there's anything else, but
That was an easy fix, thank you.
Yes.
Yeah, she looked at it afterwards because she initially was like,
yeah, it looks like you guys need to do the spreadsheet down meeting.
And then she looked again and she's like, you know, actually you don't.
And then because she went and pulled the actual ordinance that's online.
I think what she was looking at before was her predecessor
and it was like two or three years old.
Yeah.
So at that time.
it would have been special time meeting
to adopt the D level of protection.
But because, yeah, she'd just double check.
Don't worry about it.
You just got through the maps.
We were getting ready.
We had already talked to the Secretary of State's office and moderator
and started lining up our resources just in case.
But as it turned out, you got us out of that.
Thank God.
Yeah.
That would have been.
Not fun.
Not fun.
We were prepared, though.
It would have been a power of meaning, but it would have been a pain in a butt.
Right, right, just, yeah.
Just necessary.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Okay.
So I just want to tell everybody about
Saturday and I want to like a conference to things together, I think it was.
I think it was.
I made them through the talking and after staff very smart.
I'm trying to me right.
And so we presented in this special section where the first speaker talked about the
have a septic ordinance.
It's the name of their town.
It surrounds a big lake.
And the lake had to have some of bacteria's wounds.
And so they initiated this septic ordinance
or the septic systems have to show that they've been inspected
every five years and vacuum pumped
pumped that when they had access to show it.
And the pumps every, you know,
there's really good job with that.
Everybody's really interested in that.
And then we talked about our surface,
saw they're all really strict.
And it was all these feet and the people were really interested in.
So, that was, you know, he did a big job, and that's my...
So is that something that we might consider
is something that we might consider is separate regulations at the local level?
local level?
Oh my God, I would love if you did that.
Was that a health ordinance?
Um.
I would think it would probably...
Yeah, I think they did do it by health ordinance.
Yeah, because if that was a zoning ordinance,
you'd be dealing with grandfathering and people could apply for variants.
Yeah, and you don't have to...
Yeah, it's a health ordinance.
And it's working.
A few years ago they run out and you and everybody, you know, was,
I mean, some people, you know, you know,
you know, there's only somebody, but everybody was pretty much on board.
Once they understood what the problem was,
and that there's such a system sort of the ones that are contributing to that,
or maybe not there, they should go along, but it's a plan.
It's all the meat for it, and they all kind of do.
Yeah, if you're doing what you're supposed to anyway, it's like a really in back here.
It's just, oh yeah, I mean, my receipt.
Yeah, if that's something that you want that much work on,
you really have to think.
It's probably before that, well, this would go to Fort Town,
and this would just go to the site for it.
So if you wanted us to work on what we could.
It probably wouldn't hurt.
Anything, you know, because of the bodies of water that we have in town,
I think that...
Well, this house is that right on the quick book.
I mean...
I also believe that our building inspector is
looking at posts of plans for septic systems
and inspections of bed bottoms, which was never seen.
which was never done.
Bed bottoms are crucial because if they don't get all the band material out,
that's when you get the leaching into the lake and things going crazy.
So he's Matt and I don't think he's doing it already or should be included?
No, so he wouldn't do in the regulation.
What he's doing is the inspections.
You know, the inspection part.
Yeah, you can pass a regulation that says you have to pump your system every three years.
every three or five years or whatever you choose three is better than five.
Right, yes.
For most families, it's two to keep your septic system safe.
But what happens is when those systems, if they don't get pumped,
the reason that they fail is that the bed bottoms are bad.
So our building department is now inspecting the bed bottoms.
Have everybody accepted or just people that have...
When you put in a new one, the only way to inspect it is when the...
it's an open hole.
Yeah.
Well, we don't want to denote open diving.
Okay, well, yeah, so if you want us to do that.
I mean, let's talk about it all.
Yeah.
So I have another question and then, you can end the meeting with you on,
because I can just ask the idea and just this.
It's not a plan for thing.
Sure, next one we're meeting.
We need it.
move it for a motion first
I'll motion right here.
Second.
All in favor.
All in favor.
Thank you, everyone.
Thank you, everyone.
Thank you.
I'll get an email.