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Planning Board

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All right, let's stop, and the light is true.
Let's start with the Pledge of Allegiance.
I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.
And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God,
the invisible, with liberty and justice for all.
So I think, three, four, we have an opportunity.
Are you seeding alternates?
No, I think we have to, right?
Okay, may I have a motion to approve the minutes of our May 12th meeting?
So move. Second.
In favor? Any opposed?
And now may have a motion to approve the May 26th site walk and subsequent meeting back here.
So moved?
Second. Second.
Thank you.
All in favor?
Hi.
Great.
Thank you.
Okay.
We're opening a public hearing.
Some new public hearing.
PV 26-08-MJ and MJ Realty Ventures, LLC, owner.
T.F. Moran, Agent, 70 Main Street, MAP 238, lots 154.1, 154.12, and 154.13.
Zone general business with town water and sewer.
amended site plan. The applicant proposes to amend the previously approved site plan,
PB 24-14, to increase the duplex unit dimensions, and to adjust the building layout to comply
with setback requirements. And note that both Franklin and John Peard have recused themselves
for conflicts of interest. So, Doug, staff report. Please.
This application went through committee review and was found acceptable to move forward to public care.
This is an amendment to the previously approved Melville Place St. Patrick's development.
The project remains 58 residential units. There is no increase in unit count.
The main change is that the duplex footprints were corrected, which required some repositioning of the duplex buildings.
The amended plans keep at least 16 feet between those structures, and the applicant has stated there is no change to the approved roadway geometry.
The applicant also submitted the workforce housing CUP and related waiver materials to keep the record clean and
with prior approval staff recommends the board open the public
hearing here the applicant and any public comment and if the board is satisfied
with the record approve the amended site plan CUP and associated waivers
subject to the conditions president and conditions subsequent listed in the staff
report and the final board would like me go over any of those and reasonings I'd be
happy to say so may have a motion to accept this is sufficiently complete so moved
Thank you.
Or second?
Second.
Aye.
Great.
Okay.
Let's open this public hearing.
Becky, you want to read the a better list for us, please?
We have Heidi and James Gallagher.
52 Charlon Street LLC.
Allison Christian.
Carrie Gerard.
Catherine S. Call Family Trust.
Maureen and Trevor Poof.
Anthony Sezzellini,
Edith and David Kemp,
Scott Walker and.
Shian Bennett, Leonard Tilton, 47 Main Street, LLC, Donald and Robin Heyman, United Church of Jaffrey, James and Jackie Call,
Jason, Natalie Gardner, Eric and Rebecca Hanson, Griffin Trust, Donna Jeruso, Shirley Dapriy
Revocable Trust, MJ and MJ Realty Ventures, Mark and Nathaniel and Alan Marks, Teresa
Teresa Porrier, Lemuel, and Gillian Gomez.
Gillian Gomez, Kevin and Steve Lennon, Fletcher, and Christina Ladd, Otto Busher, Joanna Zambella,
Albert Labonte Jr., Betty Fiker, William Woodside, St. Patrick's Parish, Scott Reckis,
Andrew and Rachel Texera, T.F. Moran Incorporated, Amy Stevenson, The Architect is Warren
Street Architects, Nathaniel, and, oh, he's already on their choice.
And Huntley's Survey and Design.
Thank you.
Are there any of butters who are not notified?
Okay.
You're up.
Good evening.
I'm here.
I'm a student board. I'm a licensed civil engineer with T.F.R. Answers in New Hampshire, License, Under 2-0-599.
I'm here tonight for what I hope is a simple presentation to talk about some changes of the site plan that you approved for the subject parcel in 2024.
The changes.
as does as outlined our relative, or minor in nature. There's a scaling discrepancy
between the architectural and the civil plan and when the went out to do some
foundation layout for the site that's actually the construction under construction
of the road, the descriptors found out, and this site plan application is the remedy
to fix to fix that. So I'm going to quick pull up.
up just the revised site plan. It probably looks similar to I know many of you are on
the board at the time or some of you are on the board at the time. We have located centrally
in the screen is the existing convent. St. Patrick's School is formerly right here. So
this is to remain. This is going to be or is carved out on its own parcel right now,
delineated by this property line. And then we have a public
right-of-way easement that goes up and around with a loop road with 14 duplexes off of it.
At the top of your screen, there is a 30-unit workforce housing multifamily style building.
Nothing above this property line right here is changing as part of the site plan amendment.
Everything that we're talking about tonight is internal to the duplex parcel. The duplexes
are, went from 1,590 square feet to 2,003. Well, it didn't actually change,
just they got modified on the 1st, to 2,334 square feet. I'm going to pull up an overlay
plan of the old. So they're twice as big as they were originally? The difference would
be, I think, 800 square feet. So 400 per unit.
So the colorful image you're looking at right here, the red and the green is what was previously approved.
For the most part, the units are in the exact same location, barring this unit.
And this one was shifted upstation to right here.
Anything that's in black is not changed.
I'm going to flip over to the green plan.
One of the only utility changes we needed to
make was to increase the stormwater basin size, which is also partially why we had
to do that unit one to the top. This is downhill of the parcel, so all the stormwater
flows. Now all the form water naturally wants to go there, so our basin had to increase in
size for the increase in through the area. All other major utilities, sewer water, electric,
electric, there is no gas on site, remaining the same.
I do just want to run through this report quick on plan review and just go through that checklist.
I don't know if you guys have it, but the, so there's no change to the previously approved sub-division that's been reported with the registry of needs.
And so these are all three separate lots.
So no change, no changes there.
This will relay comparison plan.
gives you really good, well, pretty much all the information you need to determine what
is changing. The duplex footprint and separation, because they got bigger, they naturally
got a little closer. We went from 20 feet separation to 16 feet separation.
This was worked on with staff, particularly the code enforcement officer, to ensure that
the separation meets fire code and building code standards on their national
they're not just relative to Jeffrey.
We did have a variance approved in 2024 for a wetland conservation overlay district impact,
and that was for primarily this unit one down here.
If you can see this two dot dash line is the wetland conservation overlay district line, so it's a 75-foot buffer to the wetlands.
Unit one had the approach.
only half of its roof within it. And we also had our stormwater basin down here.
In the revised layout, we removed much of that roof and just have the open space of the basin.
And then we do still have a small bit of, I can't see the number, but I think this unit two clips it right here.
And so we have a drastic reduction in the amount of.
of roof or impervious area that we're proposing within the wetlands conservation
overlay district as part of this proposal.
But we've worked on it with Doug in particular.
And came to the census that it is very much the same variance.
It's just a less of an impact.
And we feel that the spirit and intent of the variance still remains true with the current proposal.
We cited hydrants.
The hydrant locations haven't changed.
Some of the valve locations have changed to service those hydrants.
And that was, in part, working with staff to make sure that we have the valves in the exact places that the
Tony Gavillaria and the utilities superintendent wanted them.
The stormwater routing and AOT permit confirmation, this change will trigger an alteration.
an operation of terrain permit amendment. We are currently permitted under AOT 2869.
There's no real effect to construction. It's really just
a administrative process to update the plans of record with AOT. And that permit application
was submitted today. It's a 30-day statutory return period, so we're expecting to have that in 30 days.
I just want to reiterate there is really no effect of the active construction because there is an active permanent place.
And the permanent amendment is really just a change the final product.
The site is in the good condition, not necessarily what they're doing on the earthwork right now.
We did mention, as Doug did mention, there's no change to the roadway plan or profile or width.
All the geometry is going to improve by more than the point before.
We will need to, as a pressing condition, finalize the road names as well as coordinate emergency addressing with the fire department.
So that's on our radar of items to get done.
Again, until that road is ready to be paved.
It is an item that we have to get completed with fire.
And one other small change I did want to mention is just in the, you see in red here.
this is the garage to the convent previously we had had that as being demoed.
This is to remain in the current amendment and that was just because when the contractors got in there and went to demo it,
there was a little bit of architectural character that the owners appreciated and wanted to hold on to.
So this is staying as part of our...
Just stone, wooden cobblets.
web. Nevertheless, this is saying as part of it, and it fits within the recorded lot line.
So I think I've probably blabbered on more than you guys would have liked.
So I'm happy to discuss any questions or comments you may have, and really any details about the amendment application.
Orr, any questions?
I get a couple questions.
And so you said nothing's happening on the back.
back lot being changed so yeah no late no no no no changes to the building entrance
paving barking anything like that okay what about all the grading so the
great that's a great catch I'm sorry I missed that in my presentation there's a
two 20,000 square feet of additional grading being proposed in the back which is really just
store on-site material that was under either underestimated or they pulled out more
material than they thought they were going to so they just wanted to open up a permanent
fill slope in the back no changes to stormwater pattern no changes to the project
program just 20,000 square feet more open space project thank you so I apologize for
excuse me what you say in the back it's it's sort of that square is over there right okay thank
this right just when we had this match line yeah green was here so we did have fill slope we had
Phil slope previously anticipating some material excess there's just way more than
anticipated it's actually I'm sure everyone's probably noticed it's mostly rock so
there is more material than the can you explain the how we went from one
size to the other size I guess I'm a little confused you said it was a conflict between
the civil and architectural drawings yeah seems like a lot of discrepancy in the
numbers I don't know just seems like it's a lot a lot more than a little way I
thought in the um the staff plan review that the motivation was because to make
larger buildings is that in the case it was really just a scaling
discrepancy between the civil and the architect so I say scaling basically the
architect draws one thing the civil draws another thing depending on the
size paper print it comes out as X or comes out as 2000 right and then if I
bring that piece of paper into my drawing and I don't have it sized to the actual
piece of paper size correctly it looks like I have it to scale
It sounds better if you just say that they wanted to make the places bigger.
Just saying it sounds better if you just say they wanted to just make bigger buildings than that.
That was trying to be honest.
It was what's called contributory negligence on all three of us, okay?
Honestly, I didn't catch it until after we had done the last meeting.
We'd already worked out of design with Warren Street and when I went to put it on there
it was just we tried to make it work and it was going to make the units so small
that we just wouldn't that's why we'll go back here that's fair
when I take a very little part of this possibility
could you just clarify this for me so each of these new units is now each of each of the
14 will be 2100 square feet they'll each be two units
2234 is okay so they'll each there'll be two units of 1100 square feet
that's correct okay oh first floor only yeah most of them have a second floor so
yeah that's added to it okay yeah that was part of the reason the 1100 square
feet we just small that's crazy first floor is so small and and and not having any
good garage area anybody would have had a 10 foot wide garage instead of a 13 4 wide
I have no problem with this
Elizabeth Gehry any questions Tom do you have any comment
the impact is better for conservation so I've seen no issue at all anybody else in
the Harvey and Lee any I would just like the state if I may that the road name has been
brought over to Keith Campbell and then DPW direct to quote do we want a
sightwalk I drop by it every day
All right, may have a motion to waive the site walk.
So moved.
Second.
Second.
All right.
Aye.
Okay.
Now may have a motion to close public hearing.
So moved.
Second.
All the favor.
Aye.
Okay.
Any, oh, there are two waiver requests?
Yeah.
Oh, they were previously approved.
The road waiver request is exactly the same.
They have to change any.
And it's just that there's 30 units in the building instead of our normal eight or six.
Correct.
Yeah.
It's the same.
request the only thing different with that is obviously the buildings are getting
long okay so but there's a more gets okay okay thank you do all right all to give me some
findings of fact can we just officially approve the waivers oh oh okay may have a
motion to accept the waiver request so moved second second on favor aye okay great
waiver yes you also just want to mention so is it carving may have a motions to approve
the additional use permit
Second. Second.
On favor?
All right.
Great.
All right.
Now I need these are minor changes for the 2024 site plan that was approved.
Perfect.
And you have a motion to approve, approve with the conditions.
I'll make the motion.
Okay.
To approve?
Yeah.
Second.
Okay.
All in favor?
All right.
Thank you for coming in.
Thank you very much for your time.
You're welcome, Jonathan.
All right, now, Code of Ethics.
We're moving on to other business.
Are you ready for us to move on to the business?
Oh, yeah, you're going to go back in the chair.
Okay.
Yeah, I'm going to try.
I'll try.
I would. I got a file going to write a book about it today.
Speaking of books.
I read Doug's book too.
It's crazy stuff, man.
Yeah, it is.
All the...
Who's the agent?
I don't know.
You get some ice cream.
Yeah.
I'm picking out the characters.
Okay.
Now, we're not, we don't approve this.
Is this already approved by the selectmen?
It's approved by this.
Right.
And so it applies to all of us.
So it's important that we
understand what's in it.
So we don't get any.
I want to go through it now and it's going to be just
on our own time.
Yeah, red line, green line,
black line would have been nice.
What changed?
Well, there was not one before.
Okay, so this is brand new.
There you go.
So I do have one question
and maybe someone can help clarify it for me.
What does this mean?
Endorsement of candidates, number
six. Officials,
and I assume that that means members of this
board or all for them.
Have the right to endorse candidates
for all select board seats
or other elected offices.
It is inappropriate to mention
endorsements during public
meetings or other officials.
town functions.
Exactly.
So if you're sitting up here,
you shouldn't be like, hey, you should vote for Frank.
Yeah.
Well, I think, for instance,
as in Massachusetts, if you're a public
if you work for the state, you're not allowed to
period.
To endorse a candidate, correct?
Or give money.
You can endorse any candidate you want, but not from
this pulpit.
Got it.
If Charles chooses
to run for library trustee again,
you can sign a letter in the paper. You just can't.
Mention that I'm a member of the
Well, no, I think you can do that, but you can't,
well, you're standing up here with the green and light.
You can't say, everyone go, remember to vote for Carol.
I believe, is that Becky how you would meet up?
Okay.
So it's in the meeting, the function of the meeting
or any other meeting.
So Franklin, is that your understanding?
If you're acting in an official capacity,
which would mean if you're sitting on the board
and somebody's name comes up, you can't say, hey, you ought to vote for him or her.
In this sitting up, in this particular meeting.
Got it.
You step out into the audience or out to going out the back door,
you can say whatever you want.
All right.
Any other questions on this?
Hey, Doug, master plan.
Master plan.
For Master plan, we back up real quick,
will we approve site plans.
Are we approving with the conditions for?
just straight out.
I think we approve with conditions.
So tonight was an approval with all the conditions.
Yes.
Oh, thank you for clarifying.
Yeah, with all the existing conditions.
From the first iteration.
From the first iteration or from the staff report?
I don't think you go out of the staff report?
No, we can't go off the staff report.
From the first time we approved them.
From the first time.
Yeah.
Okay, so the same conditions there.
Yes.
Yeah.
Was there added ones to the staff come up with added?
Yes, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I add on that.
Well, it's too late now.
No, I know.
That's why I wanted to clarify to see where...
What were they added ones?
My answer, the signature, correct, correct map and lock references, because those were incorrect.
Oh, they really should do that.
Okay.
The map and lock, the AOT, which they're going to get, but the foundation,
staking notes, the water valve, the road name, what they're doing.
I mean, they're doing all of these things.
Yes.
Is this what...
So what do we do about that?
Staff analysis?
Is that what you're calling?
We can reach out to Jonathan Devine.
They're not using the lot numbers in subdivision.
Yeah, where you're using the old one.
It should be used subsequent?
Yeah.
Okay.
And then conditions present.
Okay.
No, no, no, the lot numbers itself.
Once you did your subdivision,
it's, you have it listed as 154-1 and 2,
and it's 154-1 is the one in the back,
and then it's 12 and 13.
Okay.
So I'll, well, if you look at your subdivision map, that's what it should be.
So to the chair, would it make sense for us to embody in the form of a resolution
the Section 7, which are the conditions precedent, and Section 8, conditions subsequent,
which were included in the staff report, would it make sense to, for the Board, the Board,
to adopt those now, that way we got everything that we did previously and everything that
has changed, even if it's just minor words.
Unless you disagree with them.
Unless we, great.
You know what I mean?
Like, do we have the opportunity?
Like, somebody might say, well, I don't think that's...
But it probably makes sense to at least...
I don't have a lot of yet.
As a body, to take a look at those.
Honestly, I looked at it this afternoon.
And I couldn't tell the difference between these and the ones from 2024.
But now that I've heard you say, there are some changes.
No, I don't think we can after the meeting.
And again, I'm not highly concerned because they are doing all these things.
They're fulfilling what they're supposed to be doing.
We just don't have any teeth to make sure they do that.
I think a lot of them, what I'm reading, correctly in Vermont, a lot of these are code,
are like building inspection things.
and so on and inspection, things that have to be done inspection, like, you know, testing of water and sewer.
That has to be done.
Otherwise, you don't get water.
Correct.
So I think a lot of these things are going to be enforced by building code for the most part.
So I think, like you said, we should somehow follow that stuff.
But I think at this point, a lot of that's going to be picked up by building.
Correct.
good master plan I send you to view a one-page agenda for the section in the packets I'll just
walk you through it so we really kind of the key sub committee confirmed and the
day's on a calendar and then just a few decisions we need to make so this is the first
cycle of two chapters community facilities and services and recreational resources
both for updated in 2007 so they're 19 years old
The plan is a six-month arc June through December with a public hearing in December
and to head off the question that always comes up.
I'm leaving approval is not required to adopt the master plan.
So this is clearly in the planning board's authority.
So the first thing tonight just want to confirm the two sub-committees, community facilities.
We have Margaret, Kathy, and John Broder.
And then for recreational resources, we have Amy, Peter, John.
Peter and Jim Douglas. I think those are flipped.
Those are backwards. Those are backwards.
John's are backwards. Yeah. Yeah, I think that, I think the whole committees are.
No, no, because I would, I know I was recreational resources. I was right. Yeah, I was
recreation. And I know Kathy and Margaret were community facilities. And I was, I was with them.
So you should be, so. So it's like, just, just, just switch the two
down on you on recreational. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And Jim, you're right on recreation. Correct.
Yeah. All right. So just flip the two jumps.
See, that's why we do this.
Yeah.
All right. All right, then each subcommittee can have a chair.
Amy's been meeting Mercury for resources, so I would suggest she'd share that one and for community facilities.
I think Kathy should be chair.
Yeah.
She doesn't come up.
That's a penalty for not showing up.
Well, I'm still doing the job.
She will.
So we're nominating Kathy?
Okay. All right. So, first thing is the community facility's department heads packet.
So here's, so I did a separate one for each department head. They're a little bit different on what's going on.
But this is, we don't have to go through all of them. This is just going to be, so this is the one for the town manager.
Each packet has three parts. First is the exact 2007 tax
for that department so they can see what the plan currently says.
John, you have the town hall, the meeting house, and the comments.
Second, there's a short checklist of things we already know that have changed since 2007.
So there's that checklist.
And then third are the six standard questions, current conditions,
near term needs, longer term needs, opportunities to share service,
regional, resilience, and questions on the building of energy use that Margaret suggested,
which ties us back to the energy and resilience chapters.
So those are your six questions.
And again, they're going to be the same six questions for each department.
And then this is the one Margaret came up with when I sent out emails last week to the committees.
They didn't want anything updated.
So if you guys have any questions on the department heads, if these look good,
these are going to go out tomorrow.
I'm requesting June 19th.
So that's next Friday.
Have this information back.
Is there anything else we want added to these?
And I can pull you up each department if there's one you particularly want to look at, but they're pretty universal.
Yeah, and I think it would be worthwhile, even though I'm not on that committee.
It'd be great to distribute those packet responses to everybody here.
Yeah, I'm going to put it together providers for, yeah, we'll update you in July, hopefully.
On to recreational resources.
And so this is working a little differently.
The 2007 chapter there is almost entirely inventory.
It has no future needs sections, so that subcommittee will be doing a lot more original
drafting.
And it also pulls in more outside players.
So we got Hong Kong and the State Park and the school district, the Realtrow folks, and the
regional planning commission.
I built a working document for the subcommittee.
It lists the stakeholders, inventors, and their recreational assets by category, and
sits up the real trail discussion, which is a headline item for it is most about.
One quick correction in Peter caught this was the downtown crossing at Stratton Road is not squantum.
The 2007 chapter had it wrong, and the 2016 traffic chapter fixed it.
And that's right.
You want to be what's going on.
So this is what it's looking like for a recreational.
Should I'm just curious, should the community center be up under community facilities and services?
It can go either way.
Just because I think we're thinking of it as a structure.
Yeah, absolutely.
A lot of these are, some of these things are going to overlap.
It's fungible.
Yes.
Okay.
The parks and wrecks and all those things, those could get pulled it into community facilities.
Open, like, the resources section.
Yeah, and that's plastic's roads.
Yeah, that's kind of a separate issue.
Well, let's run along the way it is now and see how it comes out.
Okay.
So just a few decisions tonight.
We're good with these two packets for the post such committees and the department heads.
Yeah.
The number, the next one is format.
Do we want a full chapter rewrite, a condensed summary, or a hybrid?
Hybrid makes sense.
Let's see.
I'm thinking a full chapter rewrite.
Okay.
Well, for maybe you all.
Well, only because it's been almost 10 years, 20 years.
Okay.
And I think it's easy to become lazy if you do.
a hybrid right you're starting it's like what do you call that accounting when
you work off last year system right versus just starting fresh which really
addresses what you might actually need right it requires more thinking that makes
sense and I like more thinking yeah but if something's good in existence
what doesn't mean we can't consider it you know yeah right but hybrids to me
suggest you're starting with one thing and just sort of editing it I see
I'm good with that.
I mean they're not that long
these two
they're not now
right
I don't know
others have thoughts on this
I know so it was completely
out of date all the information
to say the least yeah so
it definitely needs work
yeah and this isn't the chapter
there's more no I know but okay
yeah so it means
yeah I think you're right
full rewrite I'm good with that
to agree to agree that
okay so to our public engagement how and when do we bring the public into it I would
suggest somewhere after we get some subcommittee meetings in July so into July
August time frame in that area I would say maybe September October September
October because people don't think about stuff in the summer and maybe we do
like a town-wide mailing
like we as we've done before
something like that
and some
you know
offer coffee and donuts and invite people to come
share their thought
if it's a rewrite doesn't have to go before
the town meeting
it's okay
I like September
October as well because I think it's
closer to December to December
when we're going to have the hearing
and we'll give us plenty of time to edit
and modify as needed before that December hearing and we're set on the December
hearing and then we'll as a board take it up to finalize the chapters like in January.
So so then after Labor Day of all time which is nice and
yeah and other than town-wide mailing how did you want to engage the public it's
well what have we done before we've done Facebook?
I know travels fast in the studies just
lights fireworks off you'll find out.
did it just get that
what did we do before with the
I mean we were at Riverfest, we were at
all the events in the summer kind of there
trying to get ideas for people
similar
approach? I would say that on the
Jeffrey Facebook page about every
three weeks someone says what are they doing in
St. Patrick's? They're putting an house
but we shouldn't
be doing that. We should be putting an escape park
something else for the teenagers.
Yeah, I think that'll make MJ and MJ really happy
if the town decides to turn it into a skate park.
My youngest son is 31 years old.
We talked about skate park news in middle school.
Exactly.
All right, and then, so adoption target, I was looking
for December for the public hearing
for both chapters.
Yep.
Does that sound like a good target?
Sounds great.
And then
working sessions. Let's set the first session
for each subcommittee.
I'm looking like a mid-July.
I know Margaret has surgery on June
for the second.
Now everybody does.
Peter, I think you have the most
or the least
flexible schedule
of the four of us.
So what...
Summer time's not bad because the budget doesn't meet until September.
So I'm good.
But I also know you have a pay job.
Well, yes.
But none of the rest of us, too.
You do.
I mean, the, Amy P.
Yeah.
You know, no, no, no.
December and Tiff.
Well, I can make time.
Okay.
Can we just say mid-July and then have the committee members decide on the time?
Because one of our committee members is...
Yeah, we can get together for an email or whatever.
Yeah, so you'll wrangle us.
Yeah, so send out an email to just this separate committee.
Yeah.
Yeah.
say, let's get some of the calendar or something.
Yeah, yep.
We can do that.
Because you might, I mean, you have to be there.
Yes.
You may prefer to do it during the day.
So, I mean, I prefer to do it during the meeting.
So these are all in-person meetings with the committee and the planner.
Yeah, with the subcommittee.
Sounds good.
But we're thinking, Mitch, so, I think we're meeting on the 14th in July.
So probably the week after that.
A week after that.
We can start the subcommittee.
Yeah.
July, I should have the department heads and everything out back from them.
I mean, just a question I would have about our subcommittee.
And in 2007, the recreational opportunities was really taught mostly about town-sponsored activities.
But are there other non-governmental or non-town town?
You know, I mean, I hear at times people say we need.
to make Jaffrey a destination again the way it was 100 years ago for recreational opportunities.
Is that something we want to look at? Or are we confining our focus to what are we doing
for the people in the town? I just took an open question.
If we can do anything, you know, if we can do anything to draw some of them into town,
and, you know, it's weird to look at.
At least that's my personal opinion.
Well, and on the flip side, work with the state parks.
Maybe they can organize more hikes that people in town want to do, or birdwatching,
or doesn't Audubon own the island in your pond?
If I were a festival, used to bring 30,000.
It was owned by Manadnach Conservancy, yeah.
So, and the Conservancy owns a lot of land.
They own a tremendous amount of land.
They own a tremendous amount of land.
Forest society.
What can we do to get people onto them?
Well, not that Kathy wants people on the blame for us, but...
So she does.
But you know what I mean.
But there's so many properties that provide free opportunities.
Yeah.
But again, the general sense is we want to...
I think you do to a point, but I think what happened during COVID is all these places got overrun.
Unundated.
Yeah. Destroyed, honestly.
So I think that's something we've got to keep in mind.
I mean, Sandy Beach, when I was...
a kid, that's where all the locals went.
Well, you don't even get nowhere near there, right?
I mean, you could, they'd have to throwing people out.
It wasn't a Jeffrey resident there.
The ratio of out of state-to-state is...
They shut them out and down because it was over height.
I read my bike by there.
Well, Keith, I think we have to try to figure that out.
You should be moving your ice cream truck over there.
Yeah, apparently.
Get to generate a revenue over the house or that.
No parking.
Yeah, there's no parking.
Yeah, that's a good point.
I just, you know, I mean, I look at the state purchased, I think it was 12 additional acres of land
up on 1224, four parking in the back of Milliken Manor there.
30 acres of Forest Society.
Four Society bought it.
But it was four parking.
It's really...
Well, down the road, it's an...
I can't mean on the option, yeah.
Well, to take the pressure up the main headquarters.
So, clearly, there's some sense that they want to get people off on 4th of July weekend.
Yeah, well, you can't hike it now without a reservation.
Yeah.
Right, but it seems to be working.
My daughter's up there right now, and the reservation system seems to be working.
And when I was up there in the 70s, the mountain was overrun.
It was trash everywhere.
It was overused.
So the reservation thing, I think, is working good.
There are the trailheads around the mountain, and they do encourage to use those other trailheads, you know.
This is a reservation more for, is that, was that designated from parking issues?
Yeah.
So, yeah, and there's only at the two lots that are in Jafford.
Yeah, you can still walk in.
You can still walk in.
But they do limit, though. They count how many people come in.
At those two.
That's right at the two parking areas.
Well, no, because if you go off Lake Road in Dublin, nobody's counting.
No, if you go that way, but if you went through either the two trails, even if you don't drive and park,
they still count you.
They logged you in as seven going off the trip.
Because I've dropped my daughter off, and they logged her in.
My son just went up the other day, but he was during the week, and there was nobody there.
There was nobody there?
No, it's not that basic.
Right, but that was my question.
Was it more for parking, or was it more to try to, like, ease the pressure on the mountain
at one time. Well, you know, we could have a, it would be fun to have a conversation with the guy who runs
to stay park. It would be interesting. That's what was one we should do. I think we should. It would be
interesting to talk to the Boy Scouts. You know, what kinds of opportunities do these kids?
I mean, how many people are you going to see walking through your backyard, Burger? That we can help.
They often, if anybody comes in the dog, they direct him to Cap Mountain. We were completely
off the car. We have a lot of cars go by. And we still went up the mountain, but are you in favor of that?
What? A whole bunch of people coming in my driveway. You're there all the time.
At the very bottom, it's the Miller Road? They're not in our, they're not on the trust.
Yeah. And the police come and they leave in all, but, and they say, do you want to detow them?
And I feel like to me. Yeah.
The landerals, right?
Oh, yeah. You know, they're going to go out of park on.
Yeah. Just don't block the driveway. It'll be okay.
Anyhow. Okay. We have a little sidebar discussion.
No, I know. Obviously, we have things, we have things to talk about, which is great.
That's great. That's great.
Anything else, Doug? Do you want to talk to us? As far as the master plan? Nope. I'll get those department heads out tomorrow. Great. And once they come back, I'll get them in binders. And then the September in July. We'll drafting. We'll start in August. And we'll get input in December and October. Great. Thank you.
Thank you. I also, you. Some of you probably know that the Sawyer, who was, ran the zoning board for so many years passed on over the weekends.
We've lost the account. What was happening?
Becky, DBA decisions.
We had John, Gretchen Hill, came in for a variance on Highland Ave. They want to subdivide the lot,
and we're requesting reduced front inch, which they were granting. It's a two-lot subdivision,
so that will be coming near way soon. Hiring, Hirem Cutter purchased the lot up on Hatharne Road,
which is near the VFW John Fields property. So it's like a 7.
the acre lot and he is looking for a variance in a special exception for commercial use in
the rural district and he wants to put in an indoor outdoor archery range with a retail. So they'll
have one big building, they'll have a retail section to it, a repair section and an indoor
archery range and then outside he'll have an outdoor archery range.
Do you? Yep. So as you go up, it sort of goes this way. The VFW is this way.
kind of works. So it's in the same dialogue. Yeah, it's a big parcel. And the last one is
Sarah Siever, who is Siever McClellan. So poor Sarah.
Sarah. Nope. Nope. But she, they decided that she needs a variance for a variance for a different
article. So now she has to go back and reapply for under home-based business. I know, under home
occupation. So she asked for something different. There was an hour long
discussion whether it was a variance or a special exception and ultimately they
decided it should be a variance but under home occupation. So she will be, we
did it, we're doing a special meeting for her on the 22nd. So, and that is all for
her. Madam Chair. Yes. I've been informed by District 5, I think it is 124 from
Um, Eastill Farm Road. Yep. Forward will be closed. June 22nd.
Yeah, because of the bridge.
Yeah, they're putting in a box culvert. And it'll be closed probably until August.
There may by the 1st of August or so be one lane traffic, but I wouldn't count on it.
They're going to raise the roadbed, put a new culvert in. It's a box culvert.
And they'll raise the roadbed and they'll repair the end of the, the, the, uh,
the underlying stratum too to make the road better.
It'll be, it'll be wide.
And stop it from flooding.
Yes.
You should have that on our piece of touch.
You know, you take the left.
You take the left out to East Hill Fire and that'll take you into Troy,
you go through Troy.
Yeah, then come back down.
Yeah, left on the Troy road and then.
That's where you're going.
If you're going to Keynes.
Just won't go to Target for six weeks.
I'm just going to be.
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
You know, that side's going to have a little delayed response of emergencies.
Yeah, really.
This isn't good since the uptons are in the 90s and not that healthy.
Yeah, it would be like Troy and Keene and those guys coming in from the other side for us.
Okay, may we have a motion to adjourn?
No move.
All right.
All right.
Thank you all very much.
Thank you.