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Board of Selectmen Meeting 08 31 2056

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in so many ways. Lord, especially we
want to thank you for our town that we
live in. We want to thank thee for those
who serve so faithfully in the offices
of the town. We ask that you give them
wisdom to be able to decide those things
which come before them as they go
through these meetings. Lord, be with
them tonight and be with all of the town
employees and workers so that they would
work to the best of their ability. And
Lord, even be with the people who
sometimes might be disgruntled about
this or that, but give them patience and
understanding and and so that we can all
continue as citizens of this town to
work together and go forward according
to that which is right. Lord, bless each
of us in in every way. And we thank thee
once again for for this tongue, for the
servants, but most of all, we thank thee
for Jesus who his suffering death on a
cross. His glor
glorious resurrection. Through that we
have eternal life. In Jesus name we
pray.
>> Amen.
>> Thank you.
>> Thanks John.
>> All right.
>> Have a good night.
>> How you doing?
>> Good afternoon chief.
>> Evening.
>> That water looks tasty.
>> Yeah.
rather be swimming, but here I am.
>> Rather be swimming.
>> Yeah, I love to swim.
>> Love being in the lake of the water.
>> Love it.
>> Water's nice and warm this time of year.
Still,
>> you know, peak.
>> Yeah, I was out. It was 72 to 73 all
day.
>> Really?
>> Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah.
>> Yeah. We were out
>> out on the boat.
>> First time in two years. Jeez, really
got it done.
>> Yeah, we've got out there.
>> Yeah, nice. Awesome.
>> Yeah, same.
>> Kids had a blast.
>> Oh, cool.
>> Yeah, it's one of my favorite things
about boing.
>> Yeah,
>> it's definitely
>> It's uh
>> good time.
>> What did they What do they say? It's
long periods of relaxed enjoyment
interrupted by
brief moments of full adrenaline.
>> Yeah. You get that.
>> Yeah. and money, right?
>> Oh, and money. Yeah.
>> But they're worth it.
>> Just to remind you,
>> in the
select office.
>> Oh,
>> I just did. You were looking for a
minute ago.
>> Oh, yeah. He's
>> He's wandering around the building
somewhere.
>> Well, he'll be here.
>> Okay.
Yeah, he just pulled in.
>> Yeah, I'll wait to get
>> Yeah, I just want to remind you to sign
the stuff in the drawer because there's
two pay things in there and the payroll
is in there. The AP will be in there
tomorrow.
>> If you have an ability to sign up
tomorrow, that' be great.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> That is how it has been going.
Hey, good evening. Hi, everybody.
>> Good afternoon. Evening.
>> Good night.
>> How are you?
>> Hi, Stephanie. Hi.
All right.
Can we
open this meeting with the pledge?
Pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all.
>> All right. Good evening everyone.
Once again, a light agenda.
I think these light agendas are going to
be a thing of the past soon as we head
into budget season.
So, we'll enjoy it. While we have it, uh
we have Chief Ael here to discuss uh
police detail billing rates and some
proposed changes both to the rates and
to the ordinance.
And
we have Stephanie
just here
as well as Mary. Okay. And then we have
round table.
>> Further ado to not delay the chief. Why
don't you do him first?
>> Yeah, that's I think that's all we have.
Oh, on our agenda printed off it says
update from administrator. But I would
like to sure.
>> Yeah, as usual.
the chief wants to go over his.
>> Yep. Floor is yours.
>> Okay. Thank you. Uh yeah, I just was
want to come before the board and the
town today just to propose um some
amendments uh that hopefully will be
adopted to our town of Winter's town
ordinance, please details. Um this
ordinance was originally adopted in
October of 202.
Yeah, almost a few years ago. Um, my
main focus this time as I did draft the
letter for the board. Um, just
explaining what our billing fee
structure was in October 23 and then
what I'm proposing u for the fee
structure and uh for this um adoption if
taken. So 2026 do we have that letter?
>> This right here.
>> Yep.
>> Is that the bottom?
>> Correct.
>> The bottom is 2026.
>> Correct. Yes sir. Yeah. So the top two
tables are our current uh fees and the
bottom two tables would be the proposed
changes to our fees.
And most of the changes that would be uh
that I'm requesting would affect um
section 6.0
or section six of the detail rates. Um
and I did draft a proposal of the
changes and uh they should be in red and
I think I gave them to It'll be in
faint.
>> It'll be in faint on years. These are
the changes.
>> Basically,
>> so that's a 60.
>> Yeah. On section six.
>> And I tried to do it a little bit more
detailed this time because some of the
um businesses that were using our
services um they would we came up with
some regular questions. I'm like, well,
maybe I can make it more clear in detail
ordinance what the fee structure is. So
that's why I did that in a table um
underneath uh 6.5 with the proposed new
rates. Um so that that's what it is. Um
I'm proposing that the the detail rate
paid to the officers go up to $72 $60
the admin fee of 25 cruiser fee of 16
with a total billing of $113 an hour. Um
that's up um $13 from the 2023
um uh costs. Um and then on the um
after eight hours holidays and weekends
pay um that went from $90 an hour, 37.50
50 for admin, 15 for cruiser for a total
of 142 uh to a new total of $100 for the
office of admin fee is 33 cruiser 16 a
total of 149 so up $7.
So those are really the proposal of the
changes and the reason for my request is
you know officers take these as a extra
duty pay um paid primarily by private
companies or um establishments or groups
um and to stay competitive what with
what other um agencies are offering um
would keep us in the realm. I did a
study um
with eight other agencies and what their
current uh officer rate is. So,
Hillsboro County Sheriff Office pays the
officers get 94 an hour. Ring is 75 an
hour. Francis P 75 an hour. Peter 74 an
hour. Greenfield 70. Jeffrey 6966,
Temple Green was 65, Bolton PD 65.
That's $587 and change divided by eight
is the average of $7345
was the average. So that's how I came up
with $72. Stick around the average.
>> What were
Could you read them off a little slower?
>> Yeah, you want
>> I just like Oh, you have a print out of
it.
>> Oh, okay.
>> This one's cleaner. I give you this one.
This one has a bunch of
So there was none of these.
We were
quite a bit lower.
>> What about for the other Do you want to
take a look at that,
>> please?
>> For the other um
>> aspects of the fees.
>> Yeah. Very similar.
>> Crew.
>> Cruiser.
>> Yeah. I'm seeing somewhere between $10
and $20 an hour for the cruisers with
the other agencies.
Is the admin fee correct or
>> um which
>> I mean I think
>> I think we're at we're at 25 but I think
you're
Is it because it's a different u I think
the current admin position is higher
than that.
>> Yeah, that's just the fees that the town
pays is get gets paid for and part of
the detail structure. So we're not
paying the admin that we're getting that
money in. Okay.
>> Right.
>> Is is that when it comes back into the
town?
>> I think it's like an overhead.
>> Yeah. Cover that.
>> So that would cover
accounting and
>> it covers Yeah. the retire somebody's
got to answer the phone, make the
schedule, reach out to things just
estimate overhead.
Oh
yeah.
>> And then so parts
everything you see in that detailed
building construction is what's coming
in to the agency for
in the town.
So this this billing
will it be how does this work? You'll
contact say Eversource. They're probably
one of the most common.
>> Yeah. Aspen, Eversource, power
companies. Yeah.
>> So do you contact them, they contact
you?
>> No, they typically reach out to us. So
they reach out to us and they'll say,
"Hey, like today they were working uh in
town
>> and they said, "Hey, we're going to have
a project on Turnpike Road at 572. uh
we're going to be in the road uh
requesting a police detail. Um they're
very good about it. They call all the
time like when they're going to have
road work. Um
we'll say, "Okay, we'll we'll see if we
can fill it." So we get that detailed
request. We have a schedule. We call um
officers and say, you know, try to fill
that request. And if it's filled, we
call every source back and say, "Yeah,
we have found an officer to fill the
detail. Um where would you like to
meet?" And we get all that contact
information and then the officer comes
in, performs the private, you know,
extra duty detail,
completes the detail, comes back,
my town, my police administrator then
fills out the invoice and then mails it
out or emails it to the company
depending on their preference. They get
the bill for the invoice. They send back
a check. We take the check, the invoice
and then give it to the Treasury
Department here at the police
department. I mean at the top office. So
we track the details coming you know
that we perform and then the payments
coming in.
>> So has there ever been a time
when we've used
section 8 penalty?
>> Not yet. Nope.
But it is there as a
deterrence, right? That if they were to
not follow the town or the lens, kind of
like riding bicycles in the memorial
park, there should be some type of fine
structure for that.
Has there ever been like a dispute
between
like hours work. Do they like sign the
ticket or just
>> No, not that I'm aware of. No. Yeah. A
lot of times like Eversource or
>> Aspen it's it's on and off when they
actually have a slip, right?
>> They'll have a slip that we sign off
that goes back to their corporation and
vice versa. We have a detail slip that
they fill out. It's our detail
application. Okay.
>> And we track the hours there and then we
submit the bill. So we
>> haven't had disputes.
>> Uh we have, you know, cases where, you
know, we've had to like nag them like,
"Hey, you're falling behind in your
payments, you know, beyond the
>> the um request for payment in the detail
ordinance." And that's where, you know,
our town keeps saying that police
administrator um you know, makes phone
calls just like anybody else trying to
collect money and and I say, "Hey,
you're 30 days late or 60 days or um
>> but currently to date for 2026, we're
100% up to date on what's been built and
um
That's where we're at
>> other than like the detail over the
weekend and today, you know, those those
bills will go out this week.
>> So, is there ever a time that a a
resident might want to consider
>> a detail?
>> Yeah. We we get um the biggest ones we
get for residents are one has been
served the domestic violence order of
protection and they can't be at the
residence legally without a police
officer presence and they want to move
out. So they'll call and say, "Hey, I
need a civil standby. I want to get my
property at the house." And our normal
course of action says, "We can give you
10 or 15 minutes free. We'll come and
stand by for 10 or 15 minutes. If we get
called away within that 10 or 15
minutes, we're going to ask you to
leave. you got to leave immediately. And
then they're like, well, I need to move.
They're like, well, how long do you
need? I need 4 hours. And they say,
well, you can get a police detail. So,
I'm not going to pay, you know, you
can't give an officer dedicated four
hours to be there. So, that's rare, but
that's probably the most common that we
get for a citizen. Uh, sometimes like
Old Homestead Farm will have an event
that they'll call us for um police
detail, graduation, graduation
ceremonies, weddings if they feel it's
necessary. Um, I think they're growing
up there. I'm not entirely sure, but
those are some examples.
>> Any comments?
>> No.
>> Well, the rates aren't that much
different from what they were back in
2023.
The admin fee went down for holidays.
>> Yeah, correct. Was that just done in the
same manner of average
or
>> it was a little bit to do with the
average and was also trying not to have
a a major increase between the 142 and
the 149 and still cover the admin fees.
>> Um,
so that was my thought process behind
that.
You have any thoughts on it, Jack?
>> No, I think it's pretty standard. Um,
you know, the idea is there's no reason
to put this on the back of the
taxpayers. So, you're trying to price it
generously enough so that you know
you're covering your costs. I mean, you
know, the cruisers running out there for
hours and hours and hours on hills. You
know, they're 70 or 80,000 bucks.
So, you know, it's not it's not
inexpensive and it does take a lot of
time, but it's built into the system and
they don't have to come here. They're
working and they could go to any
community police detail. You know,
sometimes they'll I'm sure the chief
reaches out to other towns, but if they
can't get the coverage, they'll come
over. You see it all the time. So,
>> and you know, if they don't want to use
a police detail, they can use a flagger.
They make that choice.
>> Yeah. And we work with them. There's a
lot of details we can't film, plain and
simple, right? And we don't stop them
for it. We say just make sure you have
the road covered with certified flaggers
and do your job, right? And that's
something we're very fair with. I mean,
ever so
>> is in town today and tomorrow. We don't
have anybody for them. Aspen right now
has five trucks a day in town for the
last three months. Most of those we
don't we can't fill that request. But
the details ordinance allows them allows
us to say, "Hey, at least ask us." So we
know one we know where you are and two
if we can put a police detail there we
will and if we can't please use flaggers
do your business right we don't we're
not in the business of stopping people
from stop from doing their business
we're just saying you know when you use
us this is the fees you know um and uh
works out well so I said
one's been in town for months and I
think they're going to be here for a few
more months
>> and the police like to know because not
everybody's always nice when there's
vehicles in the road and there's delays
So
>> if there's an incident,
>> then at least they know what the deal
is.
>> And it's nice to know where they are.
Like daily right now, I get emails are
scheduled from ask of the roads they're
going to be on.
>> So if somebody calls and says, "Hey,
there's construction and it's not
properly flagged or posted, you know,
like, oh yeah, I saw out there or asks
out there. I know who's out there." Then
they can go take a ride out there and
take a look and see what's going on. And
sometimes we'll roll up and say, "Yeah,
there is absolutely nobody flagging it."
It's a onelane road and it's you know
not in the best position for visibility
for approaching traffic or pedestrians
and you know the the other part some
people say why details and you know the
other part is you know the police
department patrols these streets every
single day we respond to all the
accidents we respond to all the
emergencies we assist disabled motorists
we assist the stranded motors motorists
in distress why shouldn't we be out
there another cop on the road is a good
thing right and U
we are responsible for a lot of that as
a police department. So
>> can I ask a question about this?
>> Absolutely.
>> Um so for the record, one of my brothers
is a former Rochester officer. So I'm
very
>> New Hampshire.
>> Yes.
>> I'm very pro police. I wish we had a 247
funded force, but my only concern
concern from a finance standpoint. I
understand that these companies
regardless of the rates, you know, pay
for you, your officers to do that during
that time, but I have concerns about
then that taking away coverage or then
driving overtime if something else
happens during that given week. So then
we end up we end up paying more as a
town because we're covering the shift or
things like that.
>> So that's this doesn't
>> Yeah, it's extra duty. So, it's beyond
their scheduled 40 hours. So,
>> no, no, I understand. But if something
happens and you already got a guy on
detail, you got to call somebody in.
Now, they're on overtime, right? Because
somebody else was or Unless you break
the detail. And
>> yeah, I I mean, if I have to call
somebody in, I'm sure it's going to be
overtime anyway for any reason. Um,
and we've had guys break away from
details because we'll have a critical
incident in town and like I the
personnel and they'll clear or they'll
make contact with the company and say,
"Hey, I can't do traffic. Can you get
somebody here or shut down? I got to
leave right now." Right? Well, you know,
it happens. And as a chief, I'm like,
it's nice to know that extra officer's
in town. Even though he's on an extra
duty, hey, when I really need someone,
they can come, right? You know, and
that's that is another I guess a benefit
to it. I guess is a benefit. Um, that
happens once in a while. Probably of all
the details we do annually, two or three
times a year, well, some guy will come
off a paid detail to come over and
assist us in a what we call a hot call
or an emergency.
So, that's nice, too.
>> So, hopefully we can straighten out
straighten out the revolving fund and
how that's all getting paid too because
that's still a mess.
>> So, what was your other
>> That was that was my major concern about
pulling
>> losing our resources,
>> right? Because we have limited
resources, right? And we're not able to
staff 24/7. So that that was my major
concern,
>> right? And but it is a latent concern
because you can always have a special
event even without a detail and have to
call somebody and it's the same minimum
over time
>> connection or whatever. But I get it.
No, it's not it's not not a bad point.
>> I just don't see I mean how many times
would that happen.
>> It doesn't not my exper
>> detrimental to the
>> Yeah. It it it doesn't really happen.
>> My my officers know like if there's an
overtime shift versus a detail shift,
they would never take the detail. I
wouldn't give it to them, right? Like
this is I need you here for for overtime
to cover a shift, but you that's not
going to happen.
And you have a budget to run by, you
know.
>> Y
to make sure.
>> Well, first of all, Jack, if it possible
to get copies of whatever was presented
tonight,
we can take this right here.
>> I don't want to take something that
belongs. No, that's a that's a
>> This is an extra.
>> Is there
>> It's not in red. There's a little more
italics or
>> section 6.0 is what we have.
>> Well, it's offered to you.
>> Is there anything else?
>> Is there any kind of legal RSAs or
anything like that that
justifies these rates for billing rates?
>> Not that I know. one.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> You actually It's actually in your uh
>> and not the rates, the actual use of the
>> Yeah, it was 1059.
So, I think we're talking to all of us.
You didn't specifically ask anybody. So,
I was just responding. It's just normal
course, I think.
>> Here's a copy of your
talking about it and the reference
material that's brought in there.
What you're what he references is two
things. One is the guidelines for state
of New Hampshire Department of
Transportation
>> DOT. Yeah.
>> And the second one is RSA 105
9
wherever it is. I have a copy if you
need it. But if you read this, first of
all, this isn't standalone.
There's actually
here you go. This is the policy letter
that goes with this.
And it says right in there that we the
state strongly recommends the use of
flagman and rarely recommend uniform
police officers. That's throughout this
entire book.
The if I meant I don't mean it. I left
my copy back for sure.
On the last page of this thing that's
listed in your ordinance, the very last
thing lists
where you should char find out the
billing rates. It says section 618.
>> Mhm.
>> Of here's a Department of Transportation
guidelines and it sites. Here's a copy
for you.
>> And here is section 618.
At the very bottom it says rates of
payment.
Now the rates of payment according to
the state of New Hampshire
is the cost of a the salary cost of your
officer plus 5% for overhead which means
it shouldn't be $90 an hour. If
Davey for example pulls a detail it
should be 3180 an hour.
plus 5% for overhead.
That's what the state of New Hampshire
puts in the guidelines that's cited in
your
>> So there is a a documented rate that we
should be charging.
>> Well, it's recommendation. It's
recommendation.
It's not recommendation.
>> It's not our policy even
department of transportation guidelines
on how much you charge basis of payment
and
that's what's cited in your
ordinance.
So we're not really following that.
>> Yeah. In here section 3.0 procedure
chief may reference the New Hampshire
DOT flag uniform officer work zone
guidelines and say I shall it says I may
and that's that's a a guideline that we
look at to use flaggers and to set up
work zones safely um and so that's there
as a reference
>> then the question would become what
we're leaving the authority to run a
detail at all
>> uh 1059
If you read 1059,
>> 1059 says
any person desiring to conduct a public
dance, circus, or carnival.
That's what it applies to. I don't know
that a road detail has either a public
>> I can read the rest of it. I believe it
talks about lane blockage and other
things like that in the RCA.
Section section two goes on to say the
chief of police shall have a authority
to assign police details to any public
meetings or functions which he
determines
may potentially involve traffic related
problems lead to a public disturbance or
public nuisance or endanger public
health safety or welfare.
>> That's where the road work would
probably come in.
>> Sure. Listen, every agency in New
Hampshire does it this way.
>> Market driven.
>> So what you quoted was section one and
then there's there's actually a section
two.
>> I understand. But section two can also
to the first part which is this is the
areas that you are interested.
Now, when we say things like Eversource
and so on and so forth, those are state
contracts,
not town contracts that are governed by
the Department of Transportation's
guideline, which I just gave to Select
Summer,
and they lay out who should be pulling
the detail, and they flat out oppose
uniform police officers except in
specific places in the state. For
example, route 101 between ports or
whatever if
the policy actually says
if you miss some if you read on the
policy letter about halfway down it says
polic policy and the state says flaggers
will be a primary source of providing
dynamic temporary traffic control work
areas.
>> So is that the case in switch?
>> Uh I'm not sure what was the question.
>> No, our flagger is generally the
>> I would say especially speaking of this
year we're not filling the vast majority
of the detail requests.
>> That's right.
>> That's there's probably five or six
detailed requests of the day right now.
We're lucky to fill one and we don't
stop them from working. We like I said
before, if they can do work with a
flagger, we let them do that. We don't
say like for instance, Donna Wrench's
policy says if you don't have a police
detail, you don't you don't get in the
road. We don't do that. My job is to say
if we can provide one, we will. If we
can't use flaggers and move on, right?
Do your job.
This is the same thing you already have.
I highlighted
that line.
You can have that more. And if you look
through this, this is the guidelines.
And you can read everywhere. It says
uniform officers will be used in
specific areas
and preferred
not at all.
And then we have a training requirement.
And then of course we go back to how
much they should be paid.
If we're going to use that as a
site for the appendix B, then we should
follow it.
>> It's a reference.
>> That's all it is.
>> You referenced it.
>> I didn't. It says a maybe reference.
police made reference
>> if we're going to put it
>> at the end of the day. Every police
agency, every community does it the way
you described.
>> You can see that in the statistics. So,
I understand your point on this one. I
think you're wrong and I think every
community in the state would agree.
>> I understand you do it no matter what.
>> But the policy that he references
>> says that we should be paying the guys
their salary plus 5% for overhead.
not $200 or 100 whatever it comes to.
>> The other thing is you read the actual
policy
>> pretty much nobody that it applies to
because all the road most of the road
work is done by state contract which
they follow that regulation.
And then the exceptions that we have,
we've accept exempted everybody
in town.
All nonprofits or civic groups
are deemed necessary to enhance the
sense of community in town. I can't
think of a nonprofit or civic group that
would not fall into that category.
I would suggest that you think about
resending the ordinance completely and
suspending detail activity until you
come up with a better, more precise
ordinance instead of
I want to get paid hundreds of dollars
an hour. I disagree. I think this
ordinance is uh fine the way it is and
it's sustainable and we've been
operating this without any complaints
from businesses or other people in town
other than Mr. Doyle and uh it seems to
work. It keeps our community safe. He
has another officer out on the road
directing traffic. Um and again the
appendix to N DOT flag is a uniform is a
reference so we can reference material
if we need to. Uh it's not a it's not
the new switch police department's
policy by any stretch.
>> I'm trying to find where you said
everybody is exempt.
>> Well, it's a matter
>> in our policy in the
>> polic. I don't see where everybody is
exempt.
>> Exemptions is section 50
>> and 51 says nonprofit and civic groups
that are deemed to enhance the sound
sense of uh the town's sense of
community
>> as defined by the board of select. Well,
>> if traffic control is deemed necessary
by the police chief, these groups shall
pay the wages and associated benefits of
full-time officers at the overtime rate
rather than the detail rate or part-time
officers at the overtime rate if no
full-time officers are available. So, I
don't see I don't understand why you
said everybody's exempt. I'm saying very
few people would apply
>> and that may be true as when I asked the
chief that he did say very few
>> would be exempt
>> very few residents
um end up using this
>> they would be exempt
>> well against the community sense of
community and you support the children's
fair so
difficult to find a community event that
does not enhance the community. If it
doesn't enhance the community, you
wouldn't bother calling it a community
event.
>> Yeah. I I'm just not following your
train about it that everybody's exempt.
>> Chief, did you have something?
>> Yeah, I was just going to say an example
would be we do uh sports games at the
high school. If there's a lot of crowds,
large crowds, we go, they pay the detail
or the overtime, you know, so they
possibly could be exempt, but they asked
us to be there, right? Because there
could be problems. We had an assault
happen two years ago in the soccer
field. Um, you know, there was no police
there and that's when I realized we
probably should have police, you know,
so those we we do basketball games,
could do soccer games. Um, so the that
those are that would be an example
>> where you know a town civic group or
organization such as the scenic school
district request our presence for
detail.
>> Mr. And historically the same school
district and other sporting events get
charged significantly
less than what is outlined in this which
is a lot closer to the officer's actual
salary plus 5%.
But isn't wouldn't that be in compliance
with this?
Because it says that the chief may
um wouldn't be at detail rates if it's
something that we're discussing. So I
would think that would be complying with
the ordinance
because it's a school event.
Have you seen anything in there that
would change your thoughts on this?
>> I haven't. Not yet. I haven't fully read
everything, but
>> there's a few.
>> I'm I'm just wondering like what is the
other than the guidelines that you
present here? What is the
what is the negative to having a police
detail?
>> To having a police detail.
>> Yeah. the cost to the taxpayers.
>> How he's billing for it though.
>> Well, he's billing them, but the
taxpayers are paying the officers and we
don't necessarily
have that money transferred over to the
town, which is why we have an accounting
problem with some of that. That's one
thing. Eversource is going to relay that
cost to you and me, whether it's
directly out of tax or our increased
billing. It costs them more.
The one of the invoices I p two officers
were out there for a total of 12 hours.
It was like a $2,500 bill or some
ridiculous amount to Eversource or one
of the companies like that. And they
don't absorb that. They're going to pass
that on to the customers, you and me and
the rest of the Eversource customers,
whether it's electric or cable or
whoever that's going to be passed on.
And those contracts, by the way, are run
by the state
>> and should be following the guidelines.
>> The state, if you ever look at some of
these, they all have the state
requirements. You have
>> they have an officer, a flag on each
side with the thing, dress in yellow,
regardless how hot it is.
>> They've met the state requirements.
>> We're simply imposing an additional
requirement and an additional cost on to
them. And it's not like it's either we
need it there because How many have you
passed where there's no officer there?
>> But they're the ones initiating.
I don't I don't think we're going to
them saying, "Hey, we need a have a
somebody out here, right?" Don't they
come to the police and say, "Hey,
we want somebody here or need somebody
here or how does that work?"
>> Yeah, I think the vast majority of them
will call us and request. There are
there has been instances where we'll see
somebody out on the road that's not
using a flagger and they're doing, you
know, obstructing traffic.
yeah. And we'll solve we'll address it.
We're like, "Hey, this isn't safe." And
sometimes we receive complaints
complaints from citizens and we don't
even know they're there until somebody
tells us because, you know, this is 32
miles in town, square miles. We'll go
out there and we'll explain to them
that, you know, for safety reasons, you
should have flaggers and properly mark
the road at both ends that there's a
construction zone ahead. flagger ahead,
one lane road, whatever the sign package
needs to be. Um, and you know, so so
sometimes they don't do that, right? And
that's, you know, an education part on
our our part of the PD when we go up to
these uh people that are doing that. And
then, you know, we also give them the
town ordinance so they understand what's
uh the ordinance of the towns and what's
expected.
>> And just for balance, this is obviously
the state of New Hampshire, they have
their own things when they're building
roads and bridges. So, they're trying to
control their costs. They'd rather have
a flyer than a car because they spend
tens of millions of dollars on bridges
and roads. They want to control their
costs. A splint is a private company.
They get hired by a by these utilities.
And I don't I would disagree with oil
that these are state contracts. It's a
utility contract with a private company.
And the fact is again every single
charges these rights for these just the
way it is. Every community that I've
ever worked in love with the air
and I called New Hampshire State Police
and I don't quote me on this but I think
was the troopers are getting $72 an hour
and that's what the state so if you
reference this their own people aren't
even doing it you know if that if that's
what we're looking at. Um, plus their
fees are a lot higher than ours. They
have uniform fees and you know other
things. But anyway, that's
>> all right. Any other discussion on the
proposed changes?
>> I would like to see some of the
surrounding police departments and you
know
what would be comparative
um to the what they what they charge and
how they do it compared to what we're
doing.
>> Those are current rates.
>> And those listed there, Mr. Alvarez, are
the officers pay rate, not all the fees
combined.
Any
other discussion?
>> Does that satisfy what you were?
>> Oh, I'm just looking at it right now.
So, go ahead and and and
speak to it.
>> Well, I was going to uh it up. We there
>> that's your prerogative.
>> I suppose it is chairman.
>> It is my prerogative.
>> Make a motion to
>> Yeah, this is what But I wanted to know.
>> Oh, yeah. I'm just Yeah, I'm just
looking at the at the details here.
>> And we can go ahead and Yeah, you could
wrap it up if you'd like and then um
that'll give me the next until the next
week or so to uh to review this. That's
all.
Unless you don't want me to take this
with me.
so you don't feel comfortable voting on
a motion at this time?
>> I didn't accept this.
>> Oh, okay. Can I have a motion?
>> I
I'll make motion to accept new policy
changes for police department
for 2026
outlined in
the paper that we got here.
Second it.
All in favor?
>> I tap.
>> All right, the motion carries.
That's yours.
>> Okay. How is the uh new trainee coming
along?
>> Good.
>> Yeah. Okay. A little over a week out of
the academy, so it's going pretty good.
lots to learn and you know it's a
probably a four or five year journey
before they really get comfortable. But
it's a it does get us to fully staffed
as far as you know the numbers are six
full-time officers and uh
um you know he's still quite a burden to
us versus useful because we got to train
him and he's going to be with an officer
all the time. But we're hoping in a
couple months that he'll be a solo
officer and patrolling on his own and uh
>> Jeez, just a couple of months.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, we we got a chance to
train him a little bit before he left
the academy while he was pending the the
start of the police academy. They
finished up his 16 weeks there and
everything went well.
>> Excellent.
>> We're in a good spot. Um Jackie Bouedi
is uh the police administrator. Today
was her last day, so I'm actively
filling trying to fill that position.
>> Today was her last day.
>> She's going to work a couple part-time
hours Wednesday and Thursday. So, we uh
we threw a little party today. We had a
little bit of pizza and some cake and um
prosecution group stopped in to say
thank you because she works closely with
them. U all the st a lot of the staff
returned even on their day off today to
come and attend and say thank you.
>> We do as well
>> the board offers.
>> Thanks for having Yeah. So it was sad to
see her go but she's going to move on to
the next chapter in her life and we got
to go start to do some adventuring. So,
uh,
>> there wasn't enough adventures at the
PD.
>> They got a fifth wheel trailer and, uh,
they're going to just kind of poke
around and have some fun and see where
they land and and life's going to throw
them some adventure, you know.
>> So, we're pretty happy for us to see her
go. She was an amazing employee and
dedicated to us. Uh, real crucial to our
our success at the police department.
Um, awesome performing employee, you
So, we'll we're working on it. Phil,
>> Chief, can I ask you a question? I
noticed that instead of a an hourly rate
range, you just listed, I think the rate
that Jackie is currently at, like the
26, 10 or whatever it is. I'm just
wondering if it would be more
appropriate to have listed a range
because I mean to me that kind of rate
somebody that's got at least 5, seven,
10 years experience.
Yeah, I I I posted it for what the
position is budgeted for and I I
honestly think that it's low, right? So,
I might as well pay somebody what I have
in the budget and try to attract a
quality candidate. And to be frank, one
of the persons that applied has five
years and works for another agency and
she applied to the job. Had it been
less, I don't think she's done, right?
So, I think it worked and I'm pretty
happy and I stand behind my decision to
post it that way. Um, I'm trying to draw
talent and I'm trying to get people in
the role to support our agency and
complete our mission. Um, and I want the
best I can get.
>> Are you going to have that person clean
the office as well?
>> Uh, I'm going to offer to if she feels
like this person feels like they want
that task. If they don't, then I'll have
to well, they're going to come up with a
plan, right, to get it close. Um, but,
uh, you know, that's where we're at. and
we used uh you know we we were able to
advertise and we actually got I think
right now I have really three real solid
candidates for the position and uh very
fortunate right so um yeah we're moving
forward been very successful u we've
been interviewing for two or three weeks
yeah
>> thank you good
>> and if if I can speak to one other
matter if this one's closed I give you I
just want to give a heads up it's
nothing that I would need to be here Um,
I did apply for a grant u from the
department of safety um to help us get
new computers for the cruisers and
hardware and try to get on what we call
the J1 program where we can start
submitting
uh citations and complaints and crash
reports electronically versus paper.
Um,
>> this is something that's different than
the um
>> software. Yes, the records management.
>> Yeah, this is a state initiative to try
to get more agencies to use their
electronic transfer of data versus
paper. Like right now, we print out
every accident report and put it in the
mail and send it to the state where we
could be sending that electronically.
Uh but anyway, I just want you I did
apply for that grant. We are are going
to be awarded the grant. Um, I have to
go through and wait for one more piece
of paper, but I just want you to know
that's coming that there'll be a
certificate of authority. I'll have to
touch base with Jack on the certificate
of authority saying that we can accept
the grant. I'll give you guys the terms
of the grant. Uh, this grant is um for
$37,750
for all new computer equipment.
It's 100% grant. Um, we do have to buy
and submit a reimbursement request for
that uh equipment, but it's 100%. It's
not a match. So, I thought that's pretty
exciting news. Um, good good stuff. So,
in the future, probably next week, I
might submit it for review and then
maybe get back on the agenda in a week
or two and see if we can have a
conversation about
>> Do they have Do you have the terms or
the the fine print?
>> Yes, sir. It's all right here.
>> Okay. You can Absolutely. That's what I
mean by next week I maybe I'll submit
all the paperwork to you for review
>> and then you know if you don't take the
grant then you know that is what it is
but uh you know it's it's a way to help
offset some of our future costs and um
you know it's out there being offered by
the by the state to try to promote
agencies that are small like us to start
using the the the technology.
>> I assume it'll save your staff hours too
and the officers hours.
>> Yeah. between the new record management
system and being able to do like this
kind of using this kind of equipment.
It's it's very much more efficient. You
know, now we'll be able to take a
license in the cruiser and scan it once
we in that position. There's a barcode
scanner on there, puts that person's
information into the call, you know,
stuff like that. um that you'll be able
to print the citation out right in the
cruiser versus handwriting one out
>> which takes all that time and then when
we're done that that summons or ticket
is transferred electronically through
the web back out to the state. Um, those
are all steps that take manpower. And
anyway, I don't want to get on a
tangent, take up a bunch of your time,
but you I'm going to send you some of
>> Be between that and the update on the um
reporting software.
>> There could be there could be a lot of
>> the workload of these of your officers.
>> Could be relieved and they can be
spending more.
>> Yes, sir. Yeah. it when we finally get
this all up and running by go live date
of May next year. I mean, it's going to
make a big impact on our our efficiency
for sure.
>> And then that in turn improves morale
>> does
>> because nobody
>> and we're going to get up to modern
technology where a lot of agencies are
already doing this. We we're not we're
way behind the curve.
>> Yeah. But I bet we're ahead of some
>> some. Yes, we are. We are definitely
ahead of some. We are not we are not
behind everybody. Some some police
departments still don't have computers
in their cruisers,
>> which
>> is really really old school, right? Like
I started 20 something years ago.
We had computers in the cars,
>> right? Some agencies don't have anyway.
Uh exciting news for you know that that
grant was a a bit of work. I got the the
letter from the state last week saying
that it's going to go through and uh
that this got signed off by the
governor's council. etc. So,
>> so we'll be a Did you say you'll be able
to email the three of us to so we can
>> Yep. I'll get everything compiled and
say here this is what the agreement is,
scope of work, and the um certificate of
authority.
>> Yeah. If you could send it earlier than
like just at a meeting where
>> If I get it to you next week, I probably
won't be asked to get on the agenda for
a week or two after. Perfect. Right.
>> And that way we can cover if this
questions Yeah.
All right, I have one other question.
Um, you see a lot on the news now of
video surveillance,
>> right? You I'm sure you've seen like
cameras everywhere.
>> Flock is the is the is the the name
going around for sure.
>> And I'm wondering that
um gifted radar thing that we accepted.
Yep.
>> Is that a part of that network?
>> No, it is not. is not linked to like an
automatic license plate here where it's
running a license plate back to the DMV
or anything like that. No,
>> it's capturing speeds.
>> But then there was a there was a camera.
>> Yeah, there's supposed to be an anti-
theft camera there. So, if you somebody
stole it that perhaps you could get a
picture of somebody who stole the sign
and vandalized it. I've never used it.
I've never had to and I'm not even sure
how to access that to be frank. Right.
Um, so the police is not using it as a
surveillance tool other than to monitor
speed.
>> And so you get a report.
>> I can print a report. Yep. So I I can
log in and see the traffic patterns
speed patterns.
>> Very good.
>> We we do have two we do have a camera at
Hybridge and and not us, but there is a
camera at Hybridge and 1241 123.
>> That's a DOT camera.
>> That's a DOT camera. My understanding
that's a live feed only. They don't
record it. They just monitor the
intersection. That's what I was told.
I've never seen any footage from it or
used it.
>> And I've had people come into the office
and be like, "You own that camera within
the last couple months." Right.
>> Yeah. Because it's really
>> They want to know if it's a FL camera
basically. And I'll be like, "No, it's
DOT. If you have questions, go see the
DOT."
I wonder if this board has any footing
to ask the state
why that's there and can it be removed.
>> Well, my understanding is they just
monitor road conditions like in winter
if there's a car off the road or snow
accumulation or that sort of thing. But
>> I don't know that there's any other
purpose. But
>> yeah,
>> and I've been up to the control center
up there and it's it's impressive. They
have
hundreds and hundreds of cameras around
the state monitoring the interstates
mostly the interstates and the troubled
intersections off ramps on ramps um and
that is useful tool to direct resources
to accidents and hazardous conditions
but I can't speak to surveillance and
running plates and what they do but they
do have a pretty comprehensive
um camera surveillance sort of you know
monitoring system at the department of
transportation
>> I I remember when they put it up and I
was told very similar.
>> Whether they said it was to monitor the
bridge.
>> And I think one point we had a bus
accident right at the intersection and I
I think I called and was like, "Can I
get the footage?" And they're like, "No,
it's just monitored." Cuz I was like, I
wanted to see if I had evidence of
wrongdoing.
>> Somebody rammed the bus coming out of
the library or whatever the scenario. I
can't quite read the scenario. This was
six years ago, seven years ago. But, you
know, I remember you, oh man, can I get
footage from that camera to see what
happened?
>> Yeah, but it's not available.
>> I was told it was not available.
>> Well, thank you for coming in.
>> Good job on that grant.
>> We got to see the pine gray.
It's It's promising.
>> It sounds very promising and and a and a
good resource for the department.
>> All right. I don't I don't actually have
much to report since I've only been back
five hours. But
>> um but I do, you know, I do um kind of
want to continue the conversation about
the um the finance software module that
we discussed a month or two or three
ago.
>> I don't know if you want to talk about
that at all.
>> Please.
Yeah. So, um I can speak to that a
little bit. Um,
I we I went and attended a meeting this
week with Mary and Pete and
kind of went over the overall picture of
what's happening within the finance
departments and the accounting and the
practices between
uh
finance and the treasurer.
And most of the problems or a lot of
problem that we have is pointing towards
limited limited functions of our
software.
there's I didn't dig into all the
numbers and that per se, but I was just
trying to figure out where the
bottlenecks are within the town to have
the proper channels for who's doing what
and how it's supposed to be going on.
and so without the software, we're not
allowed to
set up, from what I understand, the
accounts properly to post
the treasures revenues and they need
expense accounts to go along with them
it all filtered back towards two
limitations that our software is not
correct.
So, um I think previous meetings we've
had
the discussion that the modules to get
what we need was like around 15,000
maybe a little over.
>> Well, that came through an email.
>> A few weeks back.
So in my opinion from what I see versus
trying to go back to like an Excel or
switch the software midstream where we
are, I I just think we will disrupt more
than getting the proper software that we
already own
to abandon our whole old system or our
system currently.
>> BSNA.
>> Yeah. It just seems
>> that might
>> they might be
we've already came this far and
implementing something else is going to
cost way more than just getting the
module.
>> And we actually priced out with another
company. They actually declined and they
said, "Listen, you have BSNA. If you had
bought the modules that you should have
bought,
you wouldn't have this problem." And so
they weren't actually interested in they
kind of talked themselves out because
you know the SNA will work for you but
you have to get the other modules and
you you bought part of the modules
because you didn't think the other half
of the equation was necessary for some
reason or other.
Yeah,
>> that has been
our throne in the side
>> for a long time and
I'm glad to see there's some
direction going forward. It's not an
ideal year to just be because we've
already done this, you know, approved
expenses like
that weren't budgeted for.
Part of the problem we have is this
whole issue makes it difficult to make
decisions like this on the fly because
we don't have
that complete picture of our revenue.
which which
>> at least we're getting that we've
identified where the problem area is.
>> And that's Pete and Mary and Jack have
been working all summer on that trying
to get to the bottom and
>> and that's a start.
>> Yeah. So now at least we're at the base
of trying to identify what we need to
get, what modules to get to what you
know I don't know enough about BSNA to
uh to make any recommendations but
>> but they they have recommended to us we
know what modules are needed.
>> Well they recommended to us for a lot of
other things before
>> and they didn't pan out.
Well, I don't think that we have we have
not changed the BSNA program since we
purchased it. And so, this would be the
first
um advised change that we I think we
should implement it. I don't know where
the money I can't tell you. Hey, we're
going to pull it out of I mean, if we
all
>> surrendered our salary, that would give
another what 800 bucks.
>> Yeah, it's almost an emergency.
>> I think so. I think we're going to have
to scrape this money up somewhere.
>> That's how I feel. This has gone on so
long.
>> The longer it goes on, the worse it and
that was something we discussed is like
If we don't fix,
it's not necessary like we just don't
have the tools and if we don't fix and
kind of like draw the line in the sand,
say this is this is how we do this going
forward.
>> We are just going to be in the same
>> thing in next year.
>> And as a new selectman, I I do I do want
to get this
>> as an old selectman.
I really want to be able to pass on
readable
finances so
>> many select men can actually look and
say yes or no.
>> You have to wonder why it took so long
to come to that conclusion.
>> Well, I don't think we're going to go
there tonight. There is some
>> Yeah. extenduating circumstances
throughout the years, we'll say.
>> But it's not just the two modules that
you need for the accounts receivable
cash receipts there. There was also some
underlying account structure that needed
to get fixed and accounts put in. So
it's not that straightforward that we do
this.
>> This isn't a magic button. There's also
a lot of work
>> and that's what I was saying the
software is that
>> but there's also
>> possibility of bringing in or the extra
time to set up the accounts correctly
>> correct
>> just to get the the accounting going
forward correct
>> then we still need to go back
>> and I'm suggesting just
>> call bygones bygones and is get the
audit
>> for 2025
>> good enough for the auditors
>> and obviously if there's question we
have to go kind of what I call
scavenging hunting for the numbers for
them
>> because I don't see where we can
>> got to get the road
>> spend so much time going reverse versus
>> trying to move forward
>> the staff has put in a lot of effort on
We understand that.
>> But you at some point you you have to
just do the right thing.
>> Well, and this will just give you the
proper tool, the right hammer for the
job.
>> It won't do the job for you. You still
have to do the job, but it's going to
give you the right
>> tools.
>> And then it'll be a matter of a still a
lot of coordination from what I
understand.
>> A lot of coordination needed to get this
Well, Mary and and
Pete and others have spent a lot of time
on on the phone and on Zoom with BSNA at
the moment just
getting familiar with the layout, the
setup of the accounts, that sort of
thing. What's missing, what
>> what the elements we have can do and
what they can't do.
>> So, that's
a lot of what we can't do. Yeah. And and
they all say the same thing too, like
don't co it because that's pretty much
what we've been doing. There was there
was a a a little glimmer of hope at one
time that maybe we can make it work
using not having the modules but that
seems to have evaporated.
>> Yeah, I think yeah I don't
>> it it would have been distorted.
>> It would have been just a cop like
>> which would have had to been addressed
at some point.
>> And if you don't
then you're back to
>> you know
So, is that a motion to approve the
proposal that was submitted a couple
weeks ago that you reviewed?
>> Yeah. When was that came through the
email?
>> There was no motion.
>> I'm just asking.
Has anyone called or followed up with
them?
>> You got trained with them,
>> right? But did they I know the last time
that we went reviewed the
potential cost,
>> how long it was good for.
No, but I can tomorrow.
>> It's typically 60 days.
>> it's past the quoted date, but I just
want to make sure
>> if they'll
reach out to them tomorrow.
So,
>> so that is that quote was 15,000.
>> You can make a motion that it's up to
say 17,000 or within 10% of the more
than that we just come back. But at
least if it's within the boundary, then
we'll just get her down.
And then we'll actually end up at some
point saving on overtime to our finance
>> in about 6 months.
>> In about 6 months.
>> Assuming there's cooperation.
I'm looking back at my notes.
She's going to go get that email if you
have any.
I'm wondering back in May we approved
$3675
>> that was
>> for consultation
>> that was for training and trying to help
solve these
>> Yeah. Can we burn up all that money?
>> Not yet. But I think I think this week
may finish it off.
>> Remember there's layers to this. First
one was we
>> we took the BSNA platform half of it
because
that replicated the method that you were
using here which wasn't working. But it
also
um we had to understand with some of
that consultation and training what
happened to the
account set up to get
to set the software up. There were
errors and mistakes with that. And so we
had to kind of figure out well how was
this set up in the first place because
some of the accounts didn't make sense.
And then what can it do? And then what
are we missing? What's taking the
numbers?
>> Yeah, I was I was just asking that
thinking some of that money
unused money if there was any leftover
it would go towards helping with this.
But
purchasing these modules does that you
don't probably don't know if that comes
with a certain amount of consultation.
There is
>> there's a project management.
>> It talks about
>> fee in there covered.
>> I think it was like 40 of my memory.
It's like 4200
>> was in the 50.
>> Okay, that was a good part of it.
>> They aren't just going to here download
the software.
>> They have to set it up. They have to
make sure the accounts line up what it's
supposed to be. They have to train
people to use it.
>> But I think if we have
>> that's going to be the challenge
>> if we can get it and we have the
some extra personnel or whatever in here
to help
implement it. I think it would be
beneficial.
>> Is that even possible though? Can you
can you put a whole team on it?
Let's
>> take the first step first.
>> Yeah. I mean, and um
>> let's get it get it set up.
>> Yeah. get file with it moving forward
and then I think we've already talked to
Nancy for example she's got some
familiarity I believe with
so you may have some internal resources
>> no that's not it
>> was that the quote Mary
>> no this isn't that's
>> that's mine but Pete did the other one
that was from a year before
>> a year before cuz I I see it in my notes
back in May.
>> I think I recommend you do what Jack
said, you know, to say up to 17,000%
of the
>> cost estimate and come back if you need
to come back.
>> Give another 2,000 in there.
>> That's an up. So
>> it'll be whatever.
>> Yeah. Everybody's aware
>> you don't need to spend it. Don't spend
>> I think everyone's aware of that.
>> If not, we can make a decree from the
board of selectmen. You must be aware.
>> I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion
to
purchase the extra modules outlined in
our proposal up to
date. Let's call it 16,000
>> 16,000. If it be over, it would have to
come back to the board for view and
approval.
>> A second. I'll second that.
>> All in favor? I
>> you are authorized
to move forward.
>> Thank you. I will call them in the
morning and
send an email.
>> No,
>> thank you.
>> You can help me just hang with the
original price.
>> Yeah, they have to
>> cuz we're going to need the extra cost.
>> We never told them you were authorized.
>> they can watch.
>> You know, the fee shouldn't have to
change very much, right?
>> It should have what it is.
>> It is what is what it is.
>> Yes. Thank you.
Well, that was good.
>> good stuff.
>> I really feel
>> it. Sounds like you guys had a
productive meeting last week
>> and we'll continue to um meet um with
I've asked the auditors to send somebody
out next Thursday as well as
to meet with Arlene and Mary and me and
you guys if you're available.
>> And I know that um
the Jaffrey Town finance director has
helped you out in the past and she's
willing to come and help out again. So,
we'll get we'll get a number of people
focus in on it.
>> Now, she's familiar. I forget her last
name. Her name Fitzgerald.
>> Alisa.
>> Alicia. Okay.
>> It's Alisa.
>> Alisa, I think Es
>> Yeah, she has helped in the Yeah, I
spoke to her today.
>> We've hired her before.
>> So, she's
advantage to using her is she's very
familiar with the towns.
>> I think she helped you with your trial
balance a couple few years ago.
>> Well, hopefully it works out.
That was the big one. Any uh small round
table discussion?
>> Thank you for coming.
>> Good night, Stephanie.
>> Hello.
>> Nothing I can talk about.
>> No old business.
I can I can say that the hunt for a town
administrator permanent position
continues.
>> It does.
>> It continues. And we thank everybody who
has submitted applications.
The board is still deliberating.
Does anybody come
in the top five?
>> We haven't.
>> I think the short answer is probably no.
>> I did forward another one on to you um a
couple hours ago.
>> I'm sorry. What was that?
>> I forwarded another resume on to you a
>> Oh, did you? Okay.
>> Sorry. I just came down from
>> Yeah. No, sorry. No problem. No rush.
>> Another job. Yeah,
>> it's all good.
>> All right, we do have uh primary
elections coming up September 8th. Polls
will be open 7 to 7 at the scenic
Auditorium.
>> Do you think uh
is it beneficial to keep the polls open
a little later or is seven like good?
>> That's been a torical. I don't think you
want to go too much later on primaries.
It probably in my this is all my
opinion.
>> Um primaries won't be an issue. Uh
townbo vote and presidential,
you know, the big the fouryear
>> Yeah. The pole workers end up staying
>> probably at least four hours after the
poll.
>> It's a long day.
>> It's a long
Yeah, they're there.
>> So that to leave it open even longer
>> I was just wondering if it's 7:00
in the morning. Is it better to open it
a little later and keep
>> Well, is that what you were go You were
on the front end of it.
>> Ah,
>> I just don't know. I haven't been here
to see the history.
>> Yeah, I think there is. You generally
get a morning rush of of people.
>> You get a morning rush here. people on
their way to work,
>> they'll stop and vote.
>> There'll be a huge when people are uh
coming out of work.
>> Um
>> and then it's all afterwards, it's
counting the votes and and sorting them
out and doing the other and that's the
part that goes in from about
>> 7:00 until 1 or 2 o'clock in the
morning.
>> So, it's a long day. So, I wouldn't want
to keep the full me personally as a town
moderator. Yeah,
>> I know those hours and you know after
you've worked 12 hours and then you
actually have to do the real work making
sure you're counting all the balls and
all the numbers line up and all the
forms filled out.
>> that's
highly recommend that you take a lunch
hour or go take a nap.
>> I haven't done that yet. I do take a
little bit of a lunch break. We are
required by law to be there as
>> the moderator's
faithful servants.
>> So that's September 8th, 7 to 7.
>> Yeah. And so we should be there a little
beforehand.
>> As select.
>> Do you know if we got our new
voting machine?
>> It's there. He said he's going to have
it on standby if I recall from our last
meeting.
>> He
>> There was an email that came out that
said it was paid for,
>> right? Cuz we authorized we had it in
our possession. Okay.
>> Right. We did.
>> We were leasing since
>> the last election.
>> It was a a lease to buy agreement.
>> And so that's why it was only
>> another $3,500 I think
>> to purchase it. So
>> you have one machine to have two now.
>> We have two.
>> They're new machines with that photo
scanning.
>> They work pretty slick.
>> They're they're pretty accurate.
>> All right. I would say very accurate.
>> Yeah. Good night, Alan.
I was always a little suspicious of
electronic machines
>> like being a part of the process has
>> I can't say these things are not to be
trusted because of what I've seen hand
counting and these new ones they have an
optical scanner
>> right
>> that records
um and it'll print off
>> Oh yeah
>> right in votes
>> which that was a long time it took took
us to tally right in
>> boats.
>> This thing does it. And so, um, Debbie
Deon was helping us last year and Debbie
and I just asked the moderator if he
minded if we just we double checked. We
didn't have to because the state sends
it like you just got the email of the
election guidelines.
>> So, it's not a requirement, but I wanted
to see.
>> Yeah. because we are um election
officials and we do sign it
>> and I was impressed.
>> I was very impressed with the accuracy
how it was able to take handwriting
and tabulate a list for us.
>> Wow.
>> And the list was good.
>> I like that. I like the idea that you
can see it on a screen. So if you have
people are observing it, they can
actually see the ballot.
>> It's an optical scan you can see. So
it's picking up any little mark that's
either inside or within the range
>> and then you add those list and tallies
it up. I used to have three tables, two
people at a table divy up all the
ballots and there'd be two sets of eyes
on them. So I'd have one group of people
and then another one writing down the
names and then you switch then that
person goes through the same pile
compares it to make sure you didn't miss
anybody. So every ballot get got
looked at separately by at least two
people
>> to make sure you didn't miss anything.
>> Oh, wow.
>> So, when when Debbie and I were doing,
>> right?
>> Yeah. You need a lot of people to do
that. But when we were doing this,
>> at first it came out wrong and I said,
"No, let's go through and check. Maybe
we tallied wrong. It was like one vote
off." And we went through all over
again. And it was we had tallied wrong.
That's the other thing is there's
there's great potential for math errors
particularly on the supervisor of the
checklist because they have to go
through all their books
>> and they total up everybody that signed
in and got a ballot but well like 20 30
pages.
>> And uh
>> not only that
>> wicked math there it is there's a lot
that goes into it.
>> There's a lot of
>> So they're going to be doing a ballot
machine test I saw in the sign out
there.
>> Yeah. I'm doing my tomorrow morning
>> and I think that's tomorrow morning here
as well.
>> Was that the date?
>> Yeah, I think it is tomorrow.
>> It would be good to to observe that
>> to see what goes into these.
>> This is tomorrow morning when where
>> it's on the sign outside. I can't
remember the time. Might have been 8:00
in the morning.
>> I don't you get you have to
>> I shouldn't say a time. Somebody wants
to observe that they can show up and
observe it.
>> Yeah. I'd like to be here with that.
>> You usually run 50
>> Well, look at the sign outside.
>> You usually run 50 balls through every
which way. So, you end up running about
200 ballots through face up, face down,
and dim in and you compare the numbers
to make sure the optical reader saw the
same ballot all four times, no matter
how it was put in.
>> Yeah, I think yeah, Claudia is part of
that group.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, that being said, like
when I was first elected,
there was a recount
that was um
needed on just on one of the Warren
articles.
>> And so, when you do a recount on that,
you're hand counting. And we had people
all around the table and the moderator
was supervising and then the the people
who petitioned for a recount were
walking and watching and
And again, the machine was
very accurate.
>> Now,
I don't know. I can't speak for other
like big cities and all of that. I can't
speak for that. So, I'm not saying,
>> "Hey, go Dominion. We love
>> I'm just saying my experience.
>> I have never seen an issue with the
machines here.
>> And if we don't have them, we will need
a lot more volunteers."
But it's okay.
>> Tough to find militaries because you
>> there's not a lot of young people
actually participating in the work.
>> I've been elected into an election with
older folks.
>> The older some people get, the more
mistakes they make.
>> What?
>> I heard that. That's not about us. Well,
>> it's other people. Okay.
>> Thanks for clarification.
>> Can happen.
So, I think you're going to get a good
>> because you're being a relatively light,
>> Um I mean, you never know. People can
surprise you.
>> A huge light election.
>> It it appears that it's going to be
>> what what election
>> this this primary
>> really. Well, the turnout is not going
to be like we have had. Like if there's
a fiery march,
you know, if the deliberatives stoke a
lot of energy, then them can go along
>> and then the November votes when it's
presidential
tend to go.
>> So,
>> this this will be a nice nonpicky
>> election for you to
>> be inaugurated into. Yep.
>> Be able to see the process.
>> So, I have a little bit left on or a few
things for um the DPW being the liaison.
>> One thing I have is
I met with Peter Thursday and went kind
of to the the shop and checked out the
equipment.
kind of went over some of his budget
stuff for next year. Um trying to put
together some stuff together with him.
One of the couple things that came up is
um he was wondering about if we could
set up a time
and a place and I'm not familiar with so
I need you guys' help with doing a
public hearing I believe for a scenic
road
um out at um Timbertop.
It's a there's a section in there that's
a scenic road.
>> Okay. And there's trees that are being
hit with the plow
that are like right on the the road. And
he said that when he plows the between a
lot of like if a car is coming, he's had
in the past have to back the plow truck
up, let the car by and then come
through. Um,
um, I've been told that there was a a
small either accident or something in
the past with the plow in a car or
vehicle.
>> it's hard to see the edge of the rain
cloud.
>> Um, when you're driving at 20 miles an
hour,
So from my understanding is
um there's the on a scenic road you are
not allowed to touch any tree that's
greater than 15 in
>> in circumference.
>> So
>> we just we just had something like that
over on um is it Collins route across
from the ambulance?
>> I think that's
>> where I remember the
the procedure. Yeah.
>> But go on.
>> So what he's asking is that he would he
could go out and mark potential
tree or trees that he's considering that
needs to be taken out to help the
plowing situation.
And we would hold a public hearing
to for any resident or anybody that
wants to go look. They would be marked.
Markham and just see if we could help
out that situation with the polling
coming this winter.
>> So, are you looking at or thinking about
just giving that an offset from from the
trees and and mark that spot?
>> What he was saying is he would drive the
road because he knows which trees they
are and identify them with some kind of
flag.
each one that he wants to remove and
then
>> so he wants to remove them rather than
protect them,
>> right? He wants to cut them down.
>> You get them beyond this the
>> toow. Doesn't that
>> Okay. So, we have a um somebody who's a
forester who
manages that. I believe it's Becky.
I think on a scenic road from what my
understanding and this is just it's new
to me so I don't I haven't completely
read
>> but in in the hard road to travel book
we read kind of the RSA of what he's
allowed or not allowed to do and right
now we're not allowed to touch them.
>> However, there is a way to address the
issue with the public by holding a
public
hearing of a public meeting before
winter
that we could
and what we were suggesting or Peter was
suggesting is he'll go out pre-mark
everything so nobody's wondering what
trees would be taken out pre-mark
everything so before the hearing so
everybody can go drive it or do what
they're going to do and then we can have
a a boat on it or
>> it seems like
On top of that, he could use his
portable sign.
>> Right out on timber top, you know,
public here.
>> Yeah. We would do all the posting and
all the proper things. But I'm I guess
what I'm asking as a board is he's
asking me to ask us that. Can we set
this up
>> and give us some trees we're talking?
>> Um, no. But he will go and do it. I
don't it it doesn't sound like it's a
lot, but there's enough out there where
he's saying that.
>> You know, if we would take the trees
down using our own staff for you to
something we have to spend money on, but
>> I think he would do it. I'm pretty sure
he would take them down.
>> Well, it still has to go through to take
the trees down. I believe it has to go
through a a state um
>> arburist arborist.
>> Well, either an arborist or you have
state permission to take them down even
if you were taking.
>> Do you are you aware of the laws with
scenic roads?
>> I don't I'm going to have to look it up.
I haven't
pleasure of
cutting trees on a scenic road. So, I
don't really know. Well, that's where
apparently like I was saying is
there's the biggest factor me as a for
one for me being le liaison talking with
Peter is it's a major safety problem
>> and the fact that I hear him saying that
he's got to, you know, when he sees
somebody and it's so tight they got to,
you know, basically slam the brakes on,
lift the wing up, back the truck kind of
on the side of the road, let the car by
and go.
>> Yeah. No, it's
>> I mean that's a hazard.
>> It can be dangerous because then because
the plow can also bounce off the tree
into the
>> Well, and that was the other thing he
was saying is that he said if you want
if you kind of want to know the trees,
most of them have plow dings on them
right now.
>> they're already marked.
>> you don't need to flag them,
>> but he will go and flag them. So,
>> and people complain about them.
>> But that's important to get this
procedure down.
>> Before he flags anything. Yeah,
>> we need to we need to publicly know the
procedure.
>> I'll look up the procedure
>> and be sure that uh it's something that
>> he can send out some guys with chainsaw
and chipper and get it done,
>> As opposed to what Lou brought up. It
may be that you need
>> more
>> permission.
>> And typically people who have beautiful
trees along the road don't really want
to give them up,
>> but This would be within the rightway of
the highway.
>> Well, I don't know because it's a scenic
road. So, I there stipulations that says
I know I read the RS
>> uh that said that you you cannot it's
you can he can remove any I think
there's a height limitation like 4T and
under 15 inches in circumference.
>> Do you have this guy?
>> I don't. No, I was reading it down in
his
>> his office. We kind of went through it,
>> but
>> 15 in is not very big. It's like
>> circumference
>> six or seven inch.
>> We hit this problem
>> probably three or four years ago.
>> Oh, wasn't that on Collins Road?
>> Collins Road.
>> And what ended up happening? Were they
able to date?
>> A lot of people were pissed off.
>> What about the procedure that I think I
think they were less than 6 in
>> and that's why he just I think he marked
them out and said these are coming down
>> and we're allowed to.
>> Now I'm curious if there's any
conservation
organizations along that scenic road
stretch cuz
>> could be you know
>> if there's a conservation easement along
there then they have a say. The other
option of course is send a smaller truck
but
>> for one stretch of the road
>> option of course is what?
>> Send a smaller truck.
>> Yeah. Pickup truck.
>> Rather than a 10 wheeler, you know, send
a 350 something. But
>> the issue is is most of the road is
wide.
>> And then it goes into the scenic road.
>> So what would you do? all the the little
bit or not little bit but the portion of
the road with one truck and then you're
sending in another.
>> It's it's it's that would be labor
intensive.
>> Yeah. Well, it's Yeah. And then I mean
usually when you have a lot of snow and
you don't have a lot of room to push it
out,
>> I mean a pickup truck may not even be
able to pile it at times, right?
>> And then you got the issue of salt and
sand back. But I get it.
So anyway, I'd like to know how to do
that. Um, and then
the second thing that I have is
is that he was um he's got a request to
add a street light.
>> Powerful. A street light.
>> A street light. Yeah, I saw that. and we
just want to know like what's associated
with that kind of project or what is our
procedure as a town. I don't I'm not
sure.
>> I guess it would depend on the location.
Further information on that.
>> Um they're saying it's on Spindle Back
Lane.
So, there was a request from a resident
for a to add a street light on a power
pole
Peter was wanting to know basically
he knows that there's cost associated
with the project and he's just wondering
if we get more information on the
process and also
>> just to let it know let the resident
know how it works. And we have had
in my time as selectman at least three
requests to remove street lights
>> by people who live next door there.
>> Why is there a street light?
>> Well, it it does frequently cost about
30 bucks a month
>> for a street light depending on
>> That's about right. Yeah.
>> Pay them to put it up or whatever, but
I' I'd imagine it's just a vote from the
board to add another street light
>> I would like to know how many we have
and pay for
>> that was my question
>> it should be in AP
>> yeah one of
>> separated
>> a number of years ago
>> um
your electrical utility
>> ever so typically they they identify by
cost and location
>> yeah uh all the street lights and Um
because a lot of times
you never know whether the street light
is out until somebody complains and you
call up the utility and say, "Hey, I'm
paying 30 bucks a month whether this
thing is on or not. This one's out.
>> Fix it."
>> But
then let me try to look into it.
Some of the people that were complaining
about the street lights were always in
the middle of the park um because the
cotton lights weren't going down until
after 11:00 11 p.m.
>> Weren't going on until after
>> until 10 or 11 p.m.
So, uh you know, their complaint was it
was coming right into their living room
or whatever.
>> And um I don't remember how it got
settled out, but I remember
what the the length of time was or or
anything else, but we've become much
more sensitive to it.
>> This was especially when they were
bringing in new street lights for night
games for the league group.
>> Have you have you gone through any sort
of transition from
halli lights or sodium vapor to LEDs.
>> Yeah, that was when I was both when we
were first come on. It was winding down.
>> So, your LED.
>> Yeah, that's a good question.
>> I I'll look at it. I'm pretty sure
it should be easy to know how many
they're building and
It it
joged my memory on an email
that I received
maybe a month and a half ago of a
resident
asking if we could get fiber optic cable
put into town. I guess it's not cable at
that point, fiber optic internet. I
asked Jack if there was any kind of
processes
uh he pointed me to some of the RSAs
that would authorize the select men to
there's a few different avenues that are
available in doing it.
>> From what I read, the town could
actually offer a financing package to a
company to come in and run the fiber
optics.
>> We have
had fiber optic
>> and this is where
>> throughout the whole town until this
that snowstorm
the one that that knocked down
>> I'm not aware of that
>> it was all the whole town was wired up
for fiber optic and then when that
snowstorm came around and
>> the ice storm
>> that took that cut
>> that broke every utility pole in
at the base.
>> You can kind of picture that.
>> I mean, I I understand we have Comcast
cable and I'm not clear why that's not
sufficient,
but I did a little bit of looking into
it and it sounds like the town could
offer up a bond. So, we would loan the
money based on the our taxpayers would
be backing it to a company to come in
get infrastructure in.
>> Well, I think that's what's happening
over in Greenville right now.
>> Yeah, there's frequently a broadband
initiative and um the company that would
install the broadband does the math in
terms of how many potential customers
they could get.
>> And then that drives the investment
number for them. and then they
um pay off the loan, right, based on
their subscriber fees, right?
>> And um basically, um the town's not
really on the hook for if there's enough
potential subscribers for them to pay
off the bond, they simply do that. It
just saves the utility from having to
take out to do that. The town does it,
but the is
has a hold list so that they won't be on
the hook for it
>> once the utility signs on that's hey we
can pay for this then they own it
basically you borrow the money they're
going to pay it off
>> it has some risk
>> and you go ahead and tell which lines
have have or which utility poles have
fiber optic because they'll usually be
the fiber optic is um uh painted or
covered over uh with
orange
>> orange. Yeah.
>> On the top of the pole.
>> Well, the the line itself you can see it
on the pole.
>> So, they usually run on the poles and
not under
>> on the utility.
>> Oh, right. You wouldn't There's not
enough money on Earth to run all
underground
>> because we grow rocks around here. So,
the digging is terrible. You know that,
right?
>> Yeah. No, they they string it right up
and and so generally
The lower voltage is closer to
>> it's the lowest one.
>> The higher up you go on the pole, the
higher the voltage is.
>> And then they just work out the spacing.
>> Well, actually the second line up which
would be red is for alarm systems.
>> Also,
>> in any case,
>> it looked like the options that I saw
for the board and you could do your own
research.
I think I had left them papers at home
on my office desk. They didn't they
didn't appear to me to be um what I
would consider a viable option for us.
They they carried risk.
>> The options that are available
>> and I mean nowadays the
internet off of the cable is pretty fast
now compared to where it used to be.
>> And
>> yeah, you'd have to do your own test at
home.
>> Your up and down speeds.
>> But I'm just saying in general,
>> your broadband is got to be 10 times the
download.
>> That your cable is.
>> Imagine.
>> That's true. Yeah.
Uh, and in fact, that's what I don't
know if you've noticed, but AT&T is uh
having their AT&T
over the air
program.
>> Oh, are they?
>> When is that? Is that available now?
>> It is. Just you call them up and they'll
tell you if uh if it'll actually reach
you.
>> I've heard of that. And it's all
>> long time ago. I heard that's how all
the internet was going to be
>> and it it'll be
>> digital air waves.
>> Well, you know, you also have satellite
stuff.
>> And that's kind of
>> that's a biggie for Elon Musk.
>> It's working.
I mean and and even if the risks are
very low to the town, I am more prone to
be let the market
do what it does. If if a provider sees
an opportunity in our town, I would
think they would be approaching
us
>> and we wouldn't have to have 20, 30 year
bonds being let out possibly.
>> It's, you know,
It all depends. If AT&T has got a a good
market in a particular area,
um they're using 5G for uh for their
internet.
>> Unfortunately, we have a great
um antenna up uh
by wherever that the road is. Um and
that uh the top lines over there are not
AT&T. They're something else
>> on your road.
>> No, this is the one. What was the what
was the place that we were we were put
having the um
the tower?
>> Oh, older.
>> Older room.
And we have an antenna. Uh we we had a
contract on on the application
where um we allowed them to put it in
the way they wanted to, but we had to
have the top space for that.
>> Yeah. That
>> that line
>> last year it was shot down
on the March ballot. We were we had a
quote to get our emergency services set
up there and it
>> but that was going to be a hard one
because it was about 186 or 189,000.
>> Now it's probably going to be more
because another year went by,
And that's the vertex tower, which we're
unsure of where the uh bond is
extra.
All right. Do you have any other items,
>> Lou?
>> I did want to bring up again our uh
warrant for next year. Any thoughts on
it?
just we have to draft up the warrant for
next March. So you look at last year's
and then consider if the board wants to
put another article in here.
It's something something we should be
thinking about. And for every year that
I've been on board, I've said I'd like
to see an article that establishes an
actual budget committee,
which we have had in the past.
What would that look like?
>> That would be that would take away your
power to set the budget as a select.
>> So you could set it up. So basically
it's I believe it's a two3 two vote
maybe just some
>> um to establish a budget committee and
then you have the wording and um you
could have the budget committee
comprised of so many members
probably elected. So they they'd get
elected town meeting
>> and um they would kind of do what what
Stephanie does, which is that they would
meet with department heads, review their
budgets, make recommendations,
and um and then the board gets to weigh
in
and um on what the budget committee has
done. You could decide you like what
they've done or not like what they've
done or um and and usually there's a
select board representative on a budget
committee so that this this body can
kind of be kept in the loop of what that
body is doing.
>> And um and if you want to try to
influence their decisions on budget just
based based on your experience as a
select board, you put that input in and
then the budget committee has a public
hearing on the budget and they present
it to the public and then it goes to
meeting and there'll be a warn article
recommending it one way or another.
>> So, but it but it does put the budgeting
process into that committees.
>> It does and the authority of the budget.
>> So, it kind of reverses what we have
now. The selectman become more of an
advisory to the budget committee if I'm
understanding it correctly. Yep. Yep.
>> I know last year we had on the ballot to
turn this to a five member board.
>> And did that pass?
>> It's the same.
It was a petitioned article.
>> Right here.
>> But I think
In my mind, uh there's a lot that comes
to this board.
>> Yeah, I was pushing that raising the the
board to five.
>> Um because that in my opinion it gives
you a a wider spread on ideas from each
of the people.
>> Yeah. Yeah. We went through pros and
cons. I was
pretty neutral
on it,
but my thought is is that there's a lot
that comes here
>> and
that having a an actual budget committee
would allow this board to focus on
things that,
you know, like building number two and
all these things that just have such a
hard time getting traction
you might just start the ball rolling
and now it's budget season
>> but it was taking all the power away
from
>> it was for the budget. Yeah, we we the
the select men would become managers of
what the budget committee
>> but they didn't have the right
to go against the budget committee.
>> Well, I mean, you can voice your
opinion. It's America
>> and you're an elect you're elected to
represent the people and if you feel
that the budget committee is going
against the people, it would be your
duty
to tell that budget committee you are
not
doing what the people elected and I
don't know if you can do a whole lot
more than that, but you can at least do
>> Well, of course, you work with to see
what roads he wants to tackle and get
some general pricing on that that you
build in.
>> Yeah, we do have an active road
committee.
>> Have you been to any of the meetings
yet?
>> So, I think they usually have one
towards the end of the year to review.
Right now, it's ongoing.
>> The projects that they slated for this
year.
>> Yeah. So I think they will typically
have one to review how that went
and then
double check the list.
>> Pretty hard on road because they still
have to do the top coat.
>> I believe I read that they're working on
>> Is the paving crew in town yet or do you
know?
>> Haven't seen
>> they haven't done yet.
So this budget committee so what um so
the purpose or the reasoning you're
thinking is
is it similar to the finance committee?
>> No it's it would turn the dynamics that
the if you want to call it the power
dynamics
>> it would be turned on its head.
>> Yeah. They would have the authority.
>> Yeah. Well, is the finance committee
just a
>> their advisory
>> volunteer? So, this would probably
actually replace the finance committee.
Yeah, it would it would evolve
>> and then the budget committee would hold
I'll say quarterly meetings as often as
they want but quarterly meetings to
monitor the budget produce a report
quarterly budget report that could be
presented here or at their own meeting
or but somehow you get it out there so
that people can monitor the budget.
>> That was my next question is could they
go further and
do the quarterlys
you know or be in charge of ing them or
assembling it,
>> You know, and then presenting that to
the select board,
>> Just as a review. And
>> yeah, and you you could we could look at
wording
that petitioner say no less. They the
budget committee would meet no less than
quarterly. Yeah. Report their results to
the select board.
>> Something like that.
>> Yeah. So
>> it hasn't been met with welcome arms by
no matter who I've served with. Um,
and that's okay. I didn't I haven't
pushed the issue.
>> So, you know, it it's actually
it's actually not a bad dynamic to have
a five member board and a budget
committee because it it actually
increases the public participation and
transparency in view.
And you know, communities like that. Not
not all of them, but
>> yeah.
>> But then you then you have to actually
find people that want to
>> do the work.
>> This is the problem. That was one of my
because I like I said, I was pretty
neutral on the fiveman board.
>> There there's definite advantages and
then the disadvantages.
One that really stuck out at me is you
may end up with a permanently
appointed board members because so the
election happens and nobody puts a name
in. Now by law we don't
the select men then
appoint the unfilled thing until next
So you could it could backfire on you
and you could end up with a more stacked
board.
>> So it was a well if nobody runs then you
stay three. I mean you get to fill a
vacancy but
I guess we'd actually want to check
procedurally whether I mean a vacancy
could be you run you win and then you
die or you move. That's a vacancy.
But when is a vacancy not a vacancy?
Well, maybe when somebody didn't run in
the first place.
>> That's just
>> Okay. So, I suppose
>> so we'd have to answer that question.
>> It would depend on what So, it's a
quorum.
>> Yeah. Otherwise, you could stack your
own deck. You know what I mean?
>> So, I'm just not sure the answer to
that. But,
>> you're right. I didn't think of that.
Three might be the quorum and there
would be no need.
>> Three would be.
>> Yeah. So there might be no need to
appoint
>> maybe I don't know I didn't research
>> I think nor did I think the board would
have the option
>> I think there'd be a certain amount of
pressure to fill a vacant seat
>> because once the town votes for five
they kind of want five. They don't want
three. They wanted three. They would
have voted for five. So there's a fair
amount of pressure to to replace that
seat
>> to carry out the wishes of the voters.
Yeah. The the push for the people who
didn't want it was that well now you're
going to be paying three five salaries
instead of three salaries.
>> Well, the the pay rate
>> we make a whole
>> that was that was probably from a few
individuals
>> would say that.
Well, that's a that's a good point
because um
you probably want to fix the price in
there so that the budget committee
couldn't
right put a dollar in there.
So that that's that's Yeah. So those are
things that which is why a lot of times
you're elected treasurer have a statuto
warrant article fee and it's not up to
the board to decide I'm not going to pay
the treasurer. You can't do that because
they're an independent elected official.
So they typically are associated with a
fixed amount of compensation determined
by the voters.
>> Interesting.
So, we're not drafting the warrant now,
but I want to put that
>> I think it would be beneficial in that
there are people that we hear from
whose only
concern is finances.
>> Sure.
>> That's their only concern. And then we
have others who are like, "Hey,
>> what are you doing with building two?" I
mean, I know they're very closely
related, the finances and that, but
>> there's a lot of work and and I think as
sitting in this chair
>> and people ask how much time do you have
to give
>> have to give you got to come to these
meetings
at least most of them all right if you
want to go minimum
but could give
80 hours a week
>> or more.
>> Yeah, you could. And so
>> and certainly
>> town administrator point of view
>> um I mean you are responsible for
running the town and you do get to make
those decisions
>> and so yeah you you it's not just
showing up at meetings because you have
to you have to understand enough about
the operations and the departments in
order to get to a meeting like this and
make sound decisions with the
information. So yeah, no, it's a
commitment.
>> It's a commitment.
>> It is.
>> But but that in a way that also makes
five person board easier because you can
say, well, you're DPW, you're police,
fire, you're somebody else, you're
somebody else. You kind of divvy up the
workload
and then those people kind of report in
just like you
>> on on, you know, what what's going on.
>> Yeah. I just wonder on
I mean I can see for the future reality.
It's probably
something that I guess I don't know my
what I think of it, but I do know like
as a board like um
I wouldn't want to
pile more onto another committee
without
knowing exactly like I don't know if
it'd be a good idea to add one now.
>> Yeah. Well, And that would it would go
on the one right next year.
>> We can't that's something only the
voters can do.
>> Is this budget committee
>> idea. Yeah.
>> And in fact I think the same applies
with the finance advisory committee. It
is the voters who approve it.
>> Are those elected position?
>> They're not elected. Okay.
>> There's an advisor you appoint them
>> but the selectmen are okay.
>> The appointees.
winters. Sorry.
>> Well, you know, you you've had Is this
your third default budget in 10 years or
so? At least the second, isn't it?
>> It could be
somewhere in there.
So maybe
maybe a budget committee would help help
learn about the budget, understand the
budget, get more involvement. You know,
the budget committee could make periodic
reports in whatever way they want. Just
go right on the website or
newsletter or something or report it out
here in minutes. But
there is a process that's helpful to
educate the public on the budget so they
can understand what it is they're paying
for, particularly if it goes up.
Obviously, if it goes up because it's
going to go up forever. It'll go up
forever. Utilities are going to cost
more. Labor is going to cost more.
Health insurance is going to cost more.
On and on it goes. And and you're not
necessarily adding services.
It's just I mean look at the 30%
increase in dump trucks for example.
>> I mean fire engines gone from 800,000 to
1.2 million.
>> So the select can also do that as well.
>> I mean the select can
>> No, that's absolutely true.
>> Once we get the full understanding of it
to be able to present it,
>> we will have to
>> hold a budget hearing, public hearing
just like a budget committee would.
>> that's coming up.
>> Yeah. So, that was one thought I had and
we will be voting on our next year's
warrant at some point of what we're
going to have.
>> Do you typically get any communication
from the planning board or zoning? They
will
they
>> planning boards ends up
having CIP trying to um
target as to when the next police car or
>> or um um police car,
>> Yeah. dump truck
would be targeted to come in. And
actually, I did one that went back like
20 years. And you know, it actually
stayed fairly consistent that a dump
truck was good for 12 years.
A um
the back hole was good for
I think it was like nine years and then
traded in for a new one because that way
it still had some value.
>> Etc. etc.
>> So you're talking zoning ordinances or
>> Yeah. sort of a thing.
>> Yeah. They they typically are working
>> independent of us.
>> Okay. and we'll just we'll see when
they're done, we'll find out
what article number our budget is and
then we begin from there.
>> So, the other one I had in mind was um
breaking apart
what was article 9 last year uh the
capital reserves and expendable trust.
I've noticed
towns do it
similar to this in other towns. Just
break them right apart
and it makes for a long warrant. We have
one, two, three, four,
>> nine of them in one article.
I think it could be combined like
highway department expendable trust,
building maintenance expendable trust.
them could be together.
>> Yeah. Fire has three. Them could go
together.
>> And then pool and parks and rec could go
>> How does your town do it?
>> Um, it's a mix, but I think we kind of
break them up into categories.
>> I mean, you know, some people like the
fire department, they don't like the
police. Some people like
Okay, they just pass the whole thing.
I think for the moderator it can be a
little easier. I mean I read all of
these and make sure that people
understand what's in there just because
and so you throw out too many numbers
and by the time you get to the fourth
number, you've forgotten the first
number.
>> You know, you've got a good moderator.
But you you saw what happened last year.
The whole thing was voted down and it
may have been because of
I don't know. It's hard to say what it
was, but possibly
some of them may have passed
had they been separate had they been
separated.
>> But you know that but you could you can
always make an amendment from the floor.
I move that we
amend article 9 by
deleting X and X and if the crowd wants
to do it then that article goes amended
>> that was that deliberative session.
>> Yeah, that was attempted at the
deliberative but somehow
the
person who was not trying to make this
adjustment to it got sidetracked.
>> Okay. and got thrown off course I think
because of the discussion it ended up
starting to going to
I I don't recall but
I think it would make sense to have
four
it's something again we're not voting on
it tonight but it's something for the
board to think about and I've had a few
a few people um request
both within the town
>> and request what?
>> Separated capital reserves.
>> Reserves. Yeah.
>> Requests.
>> Well, we had, you know, some big numbers
there because as far as the uh the tower
that was going to beundred, I think it
was 86. That was Yeah, that was just a
warrant and I I hope it comes on again
because I think we need it. That was a
communication for the emergency
services. Yeah, you're right. It was
180,000.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And um
but there was also a small cadre of of
individuals that was on a push of you
know we don't want anything out there
because it's going to cost money and
we're paying too much taxes as it is
now.
>> That was in a small cadre. That was the
majority. That's why everything got
voted no right through us and through
the school.
>> There was a small cadre that started off
you know with that whole concept and
then that uh got spread out throughout
all the
>> I don't know. I'll leave it to the
political analysts they can figure out
what happened. All I heard was too much
money being spent.
Yeah. Then we had a we'll have petition
work,
>> you know, look at what the that things
that we had no control over like the
school budget.
>> Right. The school budget went up to what
24 million.
And uh and that's a big kick.
>> You know, especially for a school that's
got what 800 students or something like
>> Now, when we had the reps here, they
confirmed what the moderator said. there
is going to be a school
um budget tax cap.
I don't know. Is that a referendum
question? Kind of.
>> It's kind of a real weird dynamic
because the state is putting it on the
ballot.
If our towns vote for it, we're
the school board then has to institute
it, which
>> unless unless it's there's a override
vote by the taxpayers
>> on the March vote.
>> yeah, write it. I think
>> I think it's might even be two vote.
>> Yeah, I think so.
>> But something but you can override it, I
think.
>> And you can do it temporarily
>> for a year. you can say no this year we
need to go more than so there's that was
attempted
three years ago here
and then subsequent years and it was
attempted last year with both the town
and the school
>> yeah I mean in a matter of three years
it went from it was
17,000 18,000 to
I'm sorry
>> million million rather up to
And that's a big jump for an area with
with this many students.
>> And like I said during the the um
conference with the um
with the people running is that um you
know they're only graduating
um 18 to 24 students
per year out of the out of the high
school. And you you're paying $24
million to
>> Yeah. The numbers change. Yeah. I don't
know what the
>> Well, in large measure, the numbers
change at the school level because the
state pulls back the funding that
they've historically done. Like they
required
transportation for out of school
placement for disabilities and so forth
and they used to fund it. Well, then
they decided, well, we're not going to
pay that bill anymore. So you have to
pay it. They still require you to
provide all these services,
>> but now you have to pay for it. You
didn't have to pay for it before.
>> But that wasn't happening here.
>> Oh yes, it is.
>> It just happen.
>> It has because you're subject to the
same state funding for transportation,
special ed, out of school placement, and
all the rest because it's just part of
the state budget.
>> yeah. Well, it could be part of the
state budget, but
>> but it's important, I think, for the
taxpayers to understand
what are the expenses that we've
actually increased because we made that
decision and what's the impact of cost
shifting at the state level because the
state always likes to say, "Oh, we're
living within our means." Well, no,
they're not. They're just not paying the
bills anymore and they're shoving them
down to you and you can't avoid them
because otherwise you'll violate the
statute. And so, there's the shifting
argument, but then there's also the
local increase itself and you have to be
able to distinguish those.
>> So, how can the town fight that
>> elect different people to the
legislature to actually fund the
promises and stop breaking them?
>> It did the same.
>> I'm just saying if the state decided to
say, hey, it's your problem now.
>> They've been doing it for a decade.
>> Well, they've been doing it over
>> it was discussed and the problem I think
I think that
>> that's been 15 years that Yeah.
>> Claremont.
>> What's it down? Claremont. Yeah.
>> And it's just, you know, the judges came
down on them or the Supreme Court came
down on them saying, "You have to pay
this."
>> And and nobody's doing it,
>> right? And you know why? Because
>> the Supreme Court can say, "Hey, you
should fund education better."
>> But they don't have the ability, the
authority to appropriate the money,
>> the money to make that happen. That's
the legislature. So Supreme Court can
say whatever they want. They can't force
the legislature to fund it. They just
can't. They never have. That's why it's
been unresolved 15 years.
>> So, so there is
>> the municipal level
um the state encouraged every community
to join the state retirement system and
they promised that they would pay a
substantial percentage. That was the
endorsement. They made that promise.
Well, then four or five years ago, they
decided maybe not so much. So, they
pulled the funding from like 50% now
back to 35%. And then they went to zero.
That added millions and millions of
dollars onto the back of the property
taxpayer.
>> Oh, check out the retirement line on on
payroll.
>> Yeah. You never used to pay that because
the state broke its promise and they
said, "Oh, we can't afford that
anymore."
What they done down here at the
property? We said, "What are we supposed
to do?" Oh, you'll just have to pay it.
So, yeah, the state lived within its
means because they're picking your
pocket and they're forcing their bills
down onto you
>> and that's why most people's property
taxes have increased.
>> So, that's that is one aspect. And the
retirement thing I I agree with the
school funding.
>> Um, it depends if you want the thing is
is if you want the state to take and
start kicking in more
What happens?
You know what happens is the state now
because if the state is going to be
funding the majority of our education
cost, they will control.
>> And it was brought up when we had the uh
representatives here. They said, not
that it would happen in Newswitch, but
maybe the state would look and say,
"Hey, you don't have enough students.
We're shutting your district down.
you're moving your kids
>> Limeboro because we're not going to keep
funding you when you only have this many
students. And so there there is a
there's a balancing act to be had there.
>> Yeah. But look at the problems that
Peter or that school district is having
>> Look at every school district.
>> Right. I mean Peterbr's lo are they
losing students and then to keep the
buildings open becomes the
>> yeah you have a certain amount of cost
regardless of if there's any difference
>> right if you have a 100 less students
the building costs don't change
>> they don't keep the heat and the lights
on
>> still mass mass yeah still going to fix
the roof
>> although you can decommission a building
and consolidate
True.
>> So that but that can be a local
decision.
But if if it becomes a state funded
system.
>> Yeah. But but see I don't no see I
disagree because the state used to fund
it. They decided that they wanted to
give a break. Uh they wanted to reduce
the revenue they collect from at the
state level from like the business
enterprise and and that sort of thing.
So they reduced the they reduced their
budget and they shifted those costs.
They don't have any more or less control
now than they've ever had. Um they just
don't want to pay for it anymore.
>> I've actually done quite a bit of
analysis on it. I have to send you the
article.
>> I did read your I did read that.
>> The numbers don't lie. Those are state
numbers. Those are the numbers from the
DRA.
>> Can you send me a copy of that?
>> Maybe
Jason. I don't know if I can remember
where I saw it when when we were
>> It was It was in a news news. It was in
a magazine.
>> NHMA magazine.
>> It was NHMA
>> that had the article.
>> Yeah. So, that's interesting.
>> It was an interesting night with our
>> actually if you if you remember my
bottom line,
>> if the state hadn't been downshifting
costs for the last 10 years, the local
property tax would actually be lower
today.
than what was 10 years ago.
>> And what would the state property tax
look like with inflation?
>> Whatever it is.
>> That's the problem.
>> Would my bill
>> how the bill? No.
>> Because the state collected the revenue
from other sources.
>> Now, you might have paid more on your
business enterprise
tax or broken meals or something, but
The numbers are very very good. They the
state has deliberately lowered the
revenue it gets and they've shifted but
there but their law and the requirements
and the functions haven't changed. And
so whatever that takes to pay for it now
is on the back of the property tax
>> and there is an amendment in our
constitution
that
forbids the state from doing that.
>> Sure. The Supreme Court
>> has never bought into that because they
say, "Well, you were paying some
property tax before you. You
participated a little bit in school
funding, so therefore it's not a new
tax. You're just paying 50% more of it.
>> So, it's a joke, people. It's a joke."
But this is why I say you answer your
question.
>> What's going to change it? elect people
to conquer that actually care about the
property tax because right now it's just
a dumping ground for the state because
they know they can simply say we're not
going to pay this anymore and you get to
pay it
>> and you have no sales tax,
>> right? That is true. That is true.
>> Yeah, that's a touchy subject.
>> I guess sales and income.
>> Yeah. But I but here I'm not a uh I
don't like the car shifting, but I also
don't think an income tax is is the
solution because in every state that's
uh implemented an income tax, it hasn't
changed the budget. People pay just as
much. They just pay differently,
>> Yeah. I have friends down in like
Boilston, Mass, and they don't pay a lot
less in property tax than me.
>> They pay fairly similar.
And you do pay less, but not by much.
>> And that's the problem with the taxes.
And I think the argument
for local control,
we got defaulted. When was the last time
the state got defaulted?
They don't. No, they they actually don't
need to because they can reduce their
budget and downshift those costs because
they're the legislature. Remember, the
legisle passed a law, for example, that
said, "Hey, we're going to share the
Roman meals tax. You're going to get
$100." And then they said, "Well, I'm
not going to give you the $100." And you
say, "Well, I know, but the law says
we're going to get $100." They said,
"Well, guess what? We're going to change
the law." They said, "No, you only get
$50." So, we've changed the law. We
changed what we're going to give you,
and you still have to pay the bill. And
they've done that year after year. It's
amazing. It's amazing. It is like a
house of cards. It's like a slight of
hand.
They change the laws as to them
>> and they shove the burden down to you
>> numbers are what they are. Those are
state numbers. I'll send you the article
to find it again.
So the ideal is that the state would do
these things without being big brother,
>> right? Well,
>> they would fund them and not be
>> taken away the local control.
>> That's fine. If more people ran after
House of Senate
>> on a platform of property tax reform
>> and getting the state to pay its way,
you'd see a change. But it would it
would kind of go back to Mr. Doyle's
argument.
We would still pay.
>> Well, one way or another, somebody's got
to pay for government.
>> Yeah, that's a problem.
>> Well, yeah. Only if you want roads,
bridges, healthcare, electricity,
>> and don't forget
>> don't forget
>> you go off the grid.
>> Yeah. Roads, bridges.
>> They've actually been throwing a lot of
money into roads.
>> Yeah. over the last five, 10 years.
>> Here's another thing. The the gas tax,
right? They had a perfectly well
constructed
>> system of maintaining the state growth
by collecting 25 cents from you,
>> Or 50 cents when you go through a toll.
>> But they've never actually implemented
because they're so they don't want to
raise the toll and so the roads
deteriorate. And so their aid to roads
and bridges that some of which came down
to local isn't there anymore. So guess
what? Now you have to pay for those
roads more than you used to. Why?
Because they had a perfectly good plan
to maintain the state infrastructure,
but they're too they don't want to fund
it,
>> So there you go.
>> Somebody's got to pay for it.
>> They say like a gas tax is what? Like
>> 40 cents.
>> 40 something.
>> 42 cents.
>> Yeah. that goes to
>> and now the electric cars
>> bypass it.
>> well they do
>> electric cars actually their
registration is higher than
>> that was explained to us. They did get
the electric car fee to offset the loss
in revenue of gas tax. But
>> and with an electric car though there is
I mean I don't have the data but if you
think about it if you're using power
that's Also, you know, they it's a lot
of well, it's greener,
>> but you still have a power plant or
something generating the power to be a
And what's that pollution?
>> Something's chugging away.
>> If you add more to it, you
>> used as many ounces of fossil fuel to
create the batteries and the currents
and everything as as you would if you
use if you if you burn.
But there is still at least with the
>> the same amount of of wear and tear
um with electric cars that they do as
gas cars
>> on the road.
>> On the road
>> and I've heard it's more
>> well they're heavier.
>> They're heavier
>> because of batteries. I don't know if it
gives more weight to generally
>> at least with my gas powered truck I
don't have to park it 200 feet away from
the building because it might
spontaneously combust.
Yeah. Anyways, that was good. Good. It
was a good meeting with the reps and it
spawned this discussion really took up
the bulk of it was education funding.
>> Yeah. Well, all they have to do is pay
what they used to pay. I'm not even
talking about increasing. Just pay what
you used to pay
>> because we're used to it back then.
So, I'm anticipating we are going to see
another um petitioned article for strict
operating budget increase
limitation policy.
>> This one passed last year and when it
passed, I said, "Well, there's a
referendum to the select one."
>> Which one passed?
>> That was number 21.
>> 21. There's a petition article, but
>> it didn't follow the correct
format because the state sets up these
things that we hear about so often
called RSAs and the procedure wasn't
followed by this petitioner. And so our
attorney said it's actually not
enforceable.
>> Oh.
>> Because
there was supposed to be another part of
it before this was submitted.
However, the point got across and I
think it'll be back and perhaps it'll be
back
done in the correct policy.
I mean procedure. Sorry.
>> The problem with the CPI is it doesn't
really track what you're what government
does.
>> You know, nobody's
>> it's a starting point is all it was. And
I think they took that verbiage from the
state.
>> They might have. thinks so if I recall,
>> but that the CPI has no connection to
the price of a fire engine or an
ambulance or health insurance.
>> you know, nobody's health insurance went
up 3%.
>> Right. Right. Right. So, and most of
what this budget is is labor. Labor and
heavy equipment.
>> There's a few pens on the side, but it's
and none of that aligns with the CPI,
I expected to be back. Um, article 22.
>> Well, we're looking I'm sorry. We're
looking at replacing the um the tobacco,
Because the um
>> I don't think it's on.
>> Fill me in. I haven't heard anything
>> No. Peter had mentioned years ago that
his long-term goal would be to get a
wheeled excavator and sell the backos
because the backos are
>> harder to Yeah. They're no good for
ditching. And I mean, they have some
purpose, but
>> the wheeled excavator would be a much
better
>> Yeah, the lease. The lease is coming due
>> or
on the on the
>> Yeah, that's the loader. That's the only
equipment we've leased.
>> That is coming to be curious to see how
it closes out because you are told what
you're told and then you see what you
see. And I hope it'll be what we were
told.
>> We'll see.
>> The last one I I just want to talk about
uh article 22.
The town
used to have it as a selectman's
um submitted article similar to
all the way up to article 16.
It was the selectman who would bring
this to the voters. Do you want to make
donations to people right
>> to organizations?
Um few years back I brought up the point
that a lot of these things it just they
were politically there is a political
firestorm. Do you recall that in 2021?
>> I've been through it but
>> I'm saying different communities
>> this ideological thing of
>> oh sure
>> all this
>> all these businesses going political and
pushing different agendas.
um it still goes on to a little bit
lesser degree right now, but it does
still go on. And so I
I looked at that article and I said,
"Three of these things are pushing
agendas that are opposite of what I
believe in. And if this thing passes,
I my town is forcing me
to fund
something that I'm
morally opposed to.
Now, to me, that was like, okay, wait a
minute. So, I back up and I look, okay,
so maybe I like this one here,
but my neighbor hates him or my neighbor
has a moral objection to it.
And I thought, what is the town doing
raising taking money from the taxpayers?
This would be the selectman at that
time. the selectman would say, "Yeah,
we're going to take money from you guys
and we're going to give it to this
person and that one and that one and
this one, but we're not going to give to
that one." I said, "It just seems like
that's not a
>> but that was the people's choice,
>> but it's not a proper use of public
funds in
>> it's not a public fund in my opinion. It
is a a person's choice.
>> Only the people who voted yes
That was their choice. The people who
voted no
>> are being conscripted by the government
to support a charity.
>> How do you know that they're
conscripted?
>> Because if I don't pay my property
taxes,
this board will send the sheriffs over
there to boot me out and they'll take my
land away.
And this is raised by
property taxes.
So here the list is um that I was
constrained last year. I was forced to
support one, two, three, four, five, 6,
7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 charities who are
nonprofits.
>> what was the point? What's the point of
that? It seems to be a New Hampshire
somewhat some towns do it, some don't.
Like it all I can think of is this is a
way maybe somebody said I am voting no
on everything, but this is a way they
can say but I'm going to give to
charity. Well, you're not giving to
charity. You're forcing me to give to
charity if I want to give to charity.
And you look at some of these numbers
>> an individual. You look at some of these
numbers. They're small numbers. And when
I when I first brought this up at a
deliberative session, it was never met
with warmness. People I feel like it's
something that makes people feel good.
At least, hey, all the, you know, the
complaints they'll have about what the
town does with the money, but at least I
know this is going to a good cause.
Well, give it yourself.
120 bucks the town's going to get
>> to this one organization here.
>> Well, a lot a lot of times because I'
I've been through this for decades
obviously in different settings.
Sometimes these are petition warrant
articles individually,
>> but even still the 15 or 20 people that
send a petition warrant article get to
submit it in front of the all the voters
and some will vote it up and some will
vote it down. A lot of times these
numbers are driven by like home
healthcare.
They come into town and they don't
decline to provide care for any new
resident uh for want of pay for for want
of reimbursement and typically they'll
come to the budget committee or the
fiscal committee or you guys and say you
know we took care of 230 people in town
>> and this is this is how much it costs us
uh because there's not adequate
reimbursement. So they ask for donations
to offset the cost of taking care of US
citizens. Yeah.
>> So every agency um they don't like to
make up these numbers typically at least
in my experience
>> you say where did that number come from?
How many how many new residents uh
had to get services from Center for
Violence Prevention or how many people
in town needed meals on wheels and um
and or 100 night shelter. How many
homeless people came from New Ipsswitch
and on and on and on. And so you get to
make a decision about
uh how you take care of your citizens
>> and and you could do your you could just
take that money and put in the welfare
budget and you could and you could pay
home healthcare directly. But but that's
the concept and and either the board
recommends the outside agencies
whose money is used to take care of your
citizens
or they do a petition war article where
15 of your people's citizens say, "Hey,
I want to fund home healthcare." Either
way, it's going to end up on the ballot.
Um
so
>> possibly. So we didn't have it on the
ballot for two years.
>> Okay. You didn't find any outside
agencies? But the people,
>> a number of people came up last year and
said that they wanted it back on there.
>> Oh, yeah. that's happened
>> because we have citizens in town who are
poor and they need services
>> and they get it
>> and they're going to get it because
statutoily, you know, you can do it
through your welfare budget.
>> No, but can do it through these agencies
and maybe so if you take if you take
>> um 100 night shelter on this one, $500.
>> Okay,
>> that wouldn't even be one month's rent.
>> No, but you could probably stay at the
shelter for 60 days.
for that amount of money
>> would. So are these are you telling me
that these charities will no longer
provide services for the town people in
this town if the town
>> if the town doesn't give $120 a year?
>> No, they will.
>> And this is my point. And if and if
somebody
who's going to pay who's going to pay
for the bricks these
these here are nonprofits.
>> Well, that doesn't mean they don't have
expenses and they don't need revenue.
>> Understood. Who do you think pays for
nonprofit organizations?
I hope it's not governments because now
you're just a branch of you're like a
you're not an NGO anymore. You're just a
branch of the government.
>> There may not be the people of this, but
there are other towns that are willing
>> Oh, absolutely.
No such tax voted for this $10,000
a little bit more than my house. You
could say the voters said all of my
taxes will go towards
donating to these charities. Now, if I
like a charity, I don't ask you
to pay for that.
>> And most of these charities, they run
off of people's generosity.
>> He didn't. And so,
>> which is why they're asking for the
money.
>> But, but what's happening here? Well,
wait a minute. You did not have to to
accept any one of those.
>> What do you mean?
>> Just because they're on there, you could
have just said, "I'm not I don't want to
pay."
>> How?
>> Well,
>> I have no choice.
>> My neighbors
>> once it's in the budget.
>> Once it's there, it's there. And and
what happened last year was my neighbors
told me,
"Regardless of what you think about
these charities, you are paying it.
You're paying it this year."
>> That's true.
>> No matter what you think one of these
charities,
>> this comes back to your quasi Christian
roots about who's going to care for the
poor.
>> There's a church in here.
>> Yeah. St. Paul, that's one of them.
>> They get they get more than everybody.
Maybe they do more than anybody.
>> I don't know. I mean, but you know,
honestly, that's part of the dialogue
that you have with them. They come and
they say, I want X. Well,
>> we just have two things. A, the money
can only be spent on on the Wford
citizens. And B, I want to see the
numbers. How many people did showed up?
What what services did you provide? How
long did they stay? Whatever it is. And
then you get to validate. Well, if I had
to have my welfare director pay the oil
bill or something else, then I'm still
paying it. But so those are all kind of
community care decisions.
>> Yeah. because you're always going to
have the poor and somebody's going to
have to be taking care of them and
somebody's going to have to be paying
for these agencies to operate
>> and and it has generally
they don't survive off of NOIPS which is
$120 annual donation they survive. So,
if I like a charity, I may give I don't
maybe 600,000
dollars a year
>> because I want them to continue what
they're doing. And I said that at the
deliberative. I take it uh
courtappointed special advocates. That
one brought some fire. Um my wife and I
went through that and we understand what
they do.
>> Okay. My wife is, she took on several
cases for Cassa. We give them $500 a
>> And I said, "Why?
>> We the
>> town in this one in this particular
one."
>> And I said, "You know, we're and someone
said, you know, you're being a Scrooge.
You're just so concerned about No, it's
not about money
being involved. But I understand there's
people who don't appreciate something
that happened
with Cassa. That was something I looked
up when I was in there are people who
are very unhappy.
>> Not not every story anywhere turns out
well.
>> Exactly. Exactly point. I'm not saying
it's justified.
>> I'm not saying it's a justified or a
reasonable objection. It just is. It's
reality with people.
>> Um and I told the the woman who was
really angry at me for bringing it up.
If you pass the hat around with the
speech you just made, you would easily
get more than $500.
So why are we forcing everybody?
It's just not right. And I I I
looked through
historically and I found one
prominent politician who said who had a
speech on it and said absolutely
unethical for the government
to use public money
um in support of
a charity. That was Davy Crockett.
So that was the only one I saw. There
was if you if you look back into the um
founding fathers, you'll see
>> none of them were
supportive of that idea.
>> Yeah, there was something
>> but but you know, every single dollar in
this budget
>> goes to take care of the citizens of the
town.
>> Yep. one way or another, whether they're
poor, whether they're sick, whether
they're getting beaten up, whether they
have an accident, whether they have a
cardiac arrest, whether they need to get
out of their home in the middle of a
snowstorm. I mean, everything goes to
care for New Hood citizens. What makes
these any different? What makes them
different is they're organizations that
are outside of our
>> taking care of the citizens.
>> Suppose suppose you didn't want to plow
the roads and and and people couldn't
get out of their home. Why why is it
your responsibility to plow their road?
>> This is that's a part of the operation
of the town. This here is a donation to
a charity of your choice. Now, I said,
"Hey, how about if I convince the
selectman, and I, this was in just a
conversation with someone, and I named
off some really overtly political, very
clearly
on this side of the whatever you want to
call it, um, ideological
war that our culture is in. How about we
just give a list of them,
>> right?"
No, we don't want I I I'll limit it to
the ones that have actually done work in
our town.
>> all of these have
>> Right. I'm saying my list I'll limit it
to that.
>> And the answer is still no.
These have I don't know. I haven't
looked at them recently, but when I
first brought it up, that's what they
were. Not all of them. There was three
of them. and I brought it out at the
deliberative session and the moderator
put me right on the spot and he said
would you like to make an amendment
>> and you said
>> and I said yes
>> okay
>> I would like to strike these three
>> and that's when that's when I felt uh
>> the dem the the the thrust of democracy
over
>> yes
so we had a very
>> I think I think it was a very civil
discussion but it was basically me with
>> the audience resoundingly rejected.
>> No, not resoundingly.
>> Yeah. And it he actually called for a
standing vote. The moderator did.
>> Yeah. But they also stood with me for
putting those back on.
>> Right. And my whole point is
get to the bottom of it. It's at the
barrel of a gun. You will donate to this
charity. Now, if that charity becomes a
part of our welfare office, then
whatever. I mean, that's we're stuck
with.
>> I I sign off on checks that the welfare
department writes. And I understand that
I have no choice.
And who that check goes to has been
arranged by the welfare officer in
helping out whatever individual needed
it. But the principle of this is what
gets me.
And yeah,
>> at the county, we've we've been funding
some of these people literally for 40
years.
>> Um, but we've also have
said no more outside agencies. We're
funding enough. So,
>> we're not adding new people to the list,
just just some of the legacy ones.
>> And then last year, guess what? They
added a new one.
>> The government would never do that.
>> Really? Not everybody. government would
never say one thing and do another.
>> There's other times where I've looked at
the balance sheet of some of these
nonprofits. I said, you know, they're
sitting on $2.5 million. They don't need
our money,
>> but they still get it.
>> But they're helping
>> because it's helping state.
>> Yeah, I know. This is why I say let's
and we did. We didn't fund these things
for a couple years. and our town
administrator was not pleased with the
board of selecting because she fielded
the calls.
>> what kind of a Scrooge town you
>> at the end of the day, the town
administrator's job is to carry out the
majority vote to the board.
>> Yeah. And I like what you said there at
the deliberative session and that has
been a really
good educational thing for me is
it them deliberative sessions and March
vote really strongly illustrate why
these people here were deathly afraid of
a true democracy.
Because it's mob rule. You come to the
deliberative session, you get enough of
your friends, you own the town.
It's crazy
>> for sure.
>> Yeah, it is wild.
>> That's why
they didn't really form a democracy.
>> They formed a republic.
>> Yep. Exactly. And it was because of
that. And we get to witness it firsthand
here.
you know, with like the warrant,
>> it was
And and the the reason they were not
they were afraid of a true democracy
and mob rule is because
we see emotions
can be stirred up and they they
experience it there.
>> Yeah. I mean all the tar and feathering
and stuff a lot of these the founding
fathers they weren't in favor of it but
that's what happens. people's emotions
get stoked up
>> and watch out. Yeah. So, that's been a
really
>> Well, we don't have as many refs beating
each other over the head with canes like
we did 200 years ago
>> or duels.
>> DS. Yeah. We're a little more
>> Oh, feed them to the line. I
>> I would not say that we're more
civilized.
>> I would say some of the customs may have
changed.
>> That way you know where it's going.
>> You do. They do that in Europe. I see
them brawling over there. Have you seen
>> British house.
>> Yeah, they'll start.
>> There's a boot to watch.
>> I don't know. They're a little little up
to on civil, but I will not take up any
more time. That was my last thought on
the warrant and I'll ask one last call.
>> I had this is about the fourth time, if
not more.
>> What
>> that I've listened to to this whole
>> Yeah. Yeah. And you still disagree. You
you enjoy the fact that I have a gun
pointed to my head telling me to donate
to these charities.
>> Yeah, but they have
>> you say
for me for 35 years. It's just
>> Ron said, "Please, can you wind it up
already?" You're talking in circles. If
anyone has anything