All towns · jackson

planning 9 10 2026

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from Jim. He will not be here tonight.
So, um,
four members. We have four members. So,
we need six members. Well, hey, if only
we had alternates to fill the positions
for voting, we would have six people
be able to vote.
So, um, guys, you guys are both voting
tonight, at least unless somebody else
shows up later in the in in the deal.
So,
I have to even pay more attention.
you're not on the bench tonight.
Uh, first order of business, review and
improve minutes of the regular meeting
and it says uh the last one was August
13th. I guess that's correct. Yes.
Hopefully um it's in good order. Do I
have a motion to approve?
>> A motion.
>> I have a motion to approve from Jane. I
have a second.
>> A second. I have a second from David.
All in favor?
>> I
have. No problem.
>> Bill, was that an I?
>> Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, it was. I'm sorry.
Yes, I
>> Oh, okay. I didn't hear I I You know,
sometimes I don't hear.
>> I was mumbling, so I'll be
>> All right.
Uh,
I have no one opposed. So, it's
unanimous.
>> Yes.
>> Uh, it looks like we have a large public
comment organization out there. So, no
comments unless someone wishes to excuse
themselves from the board and make a
public comment at this time.
>> Scott, you should do that.
>> I'll do it underneath this.
>> Oh, okay. It's for stuff that's not
before the board season. Okay.
Um, Selecman Thompson is supposed to
lead our discussion on setbacks
ordinance
and since he's not here, we will defer
unless everybody else would like to have
that conversation.
>> Is there something that we should be
preparing? I'm not familiar with that.
anything that would be helpful to look
at in
>> we actually do have a zoning ordinance
that has a listing of setbacks and you
can look at that
>> but it's fairly standard stuff.
>> Okay.
>> Um you know 25 ft here, 50 ft there.
I think his it came up at the select
board meeting a couple times
>> and it came up at primarily for
culde-sacs and and and uh how that works
when you don't have full frontages and
things and
>> um
where the everything's pie shaped
>> right
>> as opposed to square. We're used to
we're used to square here more than pi.
>> Right.
>> Okay.
>> We're talking math. Um
Uh, and so, uh, yeah, I'd like him to
identify what his concerns were and
whether or not we need to make any
changes to better delineate what the
setbacks ought to be for culde-sac.
>> Yeah, because they from my understanding
of reading the minutes, it appeared to
be unclear in how to determine the
setback from a culde-sac.
>> Yeah. Although I think there is
information in there that is beneficial
to that.
>> Right.
>> And
>> Right. But it was Kevin also brought up
the issue.
>> Yeah. So could we be more clear? Sure.
I'm told that all the time.
Uh short-term rental application.
Okay. Uh, this short-term rental for
some of you probably are aware of, you
pass it every time you go up Black
Mountain Road. It's off to the left as
you're going up the hill. It's the um,
it's Beth and Richard Dryer's
place. Um, the log cabin that's kind of
split in between.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, sure. Right.
>> That's the That's the house we're
talking about.
>> Yeah. I was reading the materials that
was converted
from uh the property was actually
converted from a a previous structure
that was there.
>> Interesting.
>> I don't know. I think
>> you guys have been around.
>> Yeah. No, I remember there was something
else there before they put that kind of
>> style. I think they remodeled the the
house
>> and then added
>> the walkway and the garage.
>> The house is out there and remodeled. I
think there's an old pool like an
ingground.
>> Yeah, that that's that's that's up a
little bit further. That's beyond I
think that's the next property where the
log cabin is.
>> Oh, maybe I got the wrong wrong place.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I had the wrong
place. Yeah. Oops.
>> No, I recognized that.
>> Yeah, I was thinking the the other one
getting up the road.
>> Anyway, um yeah, and everything else
checks out. They have um fourbedroom tax
card. They have a fourbedroom septic.
They're advertising it sleeps 10, which
is appropriate of what we can do. Um and
we did correct the application. They
initially said they were in the village
district, but they are in the
>> Yeah, it's a little bit confusing
because the, you know, it's on map V2,
which you think that that's the village
district, and it's not. The um the
village district compared to residential
rural district is is based on um
uh the 500 ft from either 16 or 16A
and uh that is certainly more than 500
ft uh up the hill. Um
but yeah, it could it could be confusing
and so
and he doesn't he does not live on the
property
>> and and what's our role in the
short-term rental applications because I
know they come up before. So what is our
what are we
>> all right the the the way the process
works and and the reason the process
works the way it does is that it's one
of the ways that we were allowed to uh
put something on the books for
short-term rentals. And that means that
it's a conditional use permit.
And so the actual permit approval
has to be done by the select board. The
application needs to be reviewed by the
planning board prior to the select board
actually voting. So what our role is is
to review the application and determine
whether or not we will accept the
application. Um, principally it's to
take a look and see whether or not the
application's been filled out uh
correctly. And we have a choice. We can
actually deny the application. If it's
if it's rudely out of whack, we can just
simply say we're not going to accept it.
But generally if there's some minor
issue uh where they didn't
you know cross their
tees or I dot their eyes or something
that um we can accept the application
um with comment
>> and then allow the select board to
determine whether or not the uh the
shortfall is is sufficiently for example
if they don't have a groom and meals tax
identifier and you don't have to if you
register with Airbnb and there's there's
all kinds of ways things can filter
differently than than the expectation.
So our job is we do not approve
applications we accept applications. So
>> and then it goes to
>> So what I will ask for right now since
we have heard what is available to us I
will ask for the board to vote to accept
the application and if we don't like
something on it we would then
potentially as part of the discussion
uh say ah but such and such and
therefore we would accept possibly
accept it. Someone might motion to
accept it with a comment about blah.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> Yes. Thank you.
>> Kind of it it it's a two-step and the
only
>> application we're going to pass around
and look at it or
>> we you could look at it. You're you're
always welcome to do that.
>> Yeah. So Dave has the app and
>> he has the app. He's reviewed it at by
the time it gets here.
I've reviewed it, he's reviewed it, and
Betsy's reviewed it. Um, Gotcha.
>> So, and
that doesn't mean it's always right.
We're not perfect, but it, you know,
it's like um it's more likely that we've
caught something. For example, this one
I caught, it said it was in the uh
village district and it was like,
>> no, it's not.
>> So, we modified the application and
notified him that we modified the
application. We can we cannot modify
that.
>> That's good.
>> That's
important because the annual rentals
obviously.
>> Yes. Yeah. Exactly. So,
um
>> so I'll move that we accept the
application with that modification.
>> It has already been modified.
>> It's already been modified.
>> Yeah.
>> So, we the one we have in front of us
right now has already been corrected.
So, we are
>> I have a motion to accept. Second.
>> Second. Second. Somebody's going to
second.
>> Second.
>> I heard a second from Eric. Thank you.
>> Second. Second.
>> All in favor?
>> I.
>> Any opposed?
Unanimous. Again, I um I will not call
the role unless I hear something other
than all eyes. Um, in which case then I
would call the role so that we have a
record of of a descent in vote.
>> David.
Okay,
>> you're on.
>> Okay.
Unless David's talking.
>> I can talk for hours. No.
>> Okay. So, the group met last week um and
I thought it was a very productive
meeting. The focus of the meeting last
month, uh last week was on the community
meeting that we're planning for October
28th.
So, um
just to update you prior to that, uh I
updated the group. If you saw the
minutes, you may not have seen the
minutes. I just sent them out this
afternoon.
um
that the survey goes out tomorrow, the
letter, and I should be picking up the
printed copies on Monday
>> to start handing them out here at the
the town office and the post office. So,
that is on its way. Um so, based on
that, we came up with a time to meet at
the Whitney Center and
to invite as many people as we can. And
the purpose of this meeting is kind of
twofold.
It is in a few weeks, so we should have
some preliminary hopefully some
preliminary results of our survey to
present to whoever shows up. But the big
portion of this is to get feedback from
the community on the master plan, their
thoughts, their ideas. And in doing
that, what we figured is we wanted to do
an hour and a half meeting with a
15minute intro kind of outlining the
process, what we're doing, what we've
done, some survey results, and kind of
introducing what we're going to do for
the next hour. And what we're going to
plan to do is break up into six groups.
Um, and I've secured the entire Whitney
Center so we can use both of the little
rooms and have four groups in the bigger
room.
um with a 20 minute session at each
table and each table will focus on a
particular issue. Based on our feedback
from last week, I prepared something for
the meeting, but based on that feedback,
we made some modifications. Again, you
see the word draft here. So, I welcome
any suggestions, but this was my shot at
trying to group the sections of the
master plan into a manageable group of
six tables. Each table will be
facilitated by either one of us and
somebody from the subcommittee. There
will be two facilitators at each table.
The purpose of that facilitator is again
to facilitate people talking about the
subject of their table. What
>> partners? Okay, we are asking if you're
a facilitator and you agree on the
section that you meet together before
the meeting and talk about if you look
at the minutes we've outlined we all
want to focus on three things current,
present and future of that topic and we
want each meeting each table to be
consistent on focusing on those three
things because then we can gather. I
will be asking at the next meeting in
October for some additional funds to get
some whiteboard paper for each of the
tables, some markers, things like that.
I'm not sure if we stock those here in
the in the town. Uh if not, I would ask
for some funds to buy that. Um
>> did you mean I thought you said current,
present, and future?
>> I'm sorry.
>> Past, present, and future.
>> No, it's not current, present.
>> I heard that, too. But I I was I was
giving him some slack and figuring that
maybe maybe maybe he would paying
attention. That's good test.
>> I I heard that too.
>> So current state what are the problems
and what is a dire future state.
>> So the current is can it be can be
positive or and then there's some
negative things. What do you don't like
that we're doing and where do you see
the vision of the future and get those
things from them. Or it could be current
state and we like it but what are the
threats to the current state?
>> Correct.
>> Right. So here are the groups
that are a result of threatening
and I didn't I didn't do this just one.
Yeah, just one. Good. I was anticipating
everybody showing up tonight.
Um,
I didn't intentionally do this, but the
current master plan is actually divided
into six sections, and some of the
sections are actually combined in the
current master plan. But each one of
those sections, each one of those
bullets are actually a separate section
within the RSA. I tried to group them
together. So, I ask over the next week
if you think something else should fit
within that group or if you're
uncomfortable with the group I have
assignment to, let me know. But again,
it's just a working document because we
are meeting again next month prior to
this meeting on the 28th to kind of
>> that do I want to do archaeological.
>> No, that's me.
>> You feel free to do it. Um, for any of
you who may not be as familiar with your
section,
come on.
Um, I do have copies of the RSA 674-2
that outlines each one of those sections
and tells you what is being looked at
within that. So, if you'd like a copy of
that,
>> I would.
>> Um, it is in our essay book. Dig,
unfortunately, I'm bird hunting with my
father in northern Maine on the 28th of
October. So, um, no problem.
>> I don't know if there's a
>> if you want help finding a replacement
or we got another
>> I'll figure it out.
>> Okay. But thank you for I would have
enjoyed being
tandem with Jim Wasco on utility and
public services, but
I missed that.
>> I know some of you are really excited
about you might say he was willing to
give it a shot.
>> I wish you longwinded.
We'd be great.
>> Well,
um, do you want to talk or
>> I do. Yeah. Yeah. But we we actually use
uh it's a camp called Libbyy's and they
have dogs and so uh my father and I are
not I'm particularly bad shot so we
really go and we scaring birds. We're
not really
>> shooting birds. No, we're scaring the
hell out of them.
>> So
>> I have a pup who loves to do that.
>> Yeah.
>> So that that was the result of our last
meeting.
Um we're again a very quick meeting but
as a result of our last meeting um and
we're kind of excited about what's going
to happen um at this meeting to kind of
get so we will have and people can
switch so every 20 minutes somebody can
go to another table. We're going to
encourage people to go from table to you
know at least go to three tables within
that hour. Um and then we'll wrap up
with a 15minute closing uh to end the
meeting.
Um
um that's
>> yeah when when I reviewed this earlier
um just based on your quick notes from
the um
from the minutes uh I wondered whether
or not um we might at least at that
point um safety somewhere in here is
that in with the with Dick and Emily's
section with nature houses
>> maybe public services. Well, one of the
largest things that the community offers
is police and fire services.
>> Oh, that's um and
>> that's under utility and public
services.
>> Oh,
>> if you read that section in the in
>> Okay.
>> It's utility and public service.
>> Oh, okay.
>> All right.
>> That's a good point. I mean, I could I
could expand some of this. Yeah, if you
can highlight it as as as
something that that we actually
do. I think print that's and when you
get down to what it is that the town
actually provides.
>> Yeah. Well, the town has utility water.
We're on the town water, but probably
not any other.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. In the section in the current
section, I mean, it's called municipal
services. Municipal services is what
it's called in the current.
Yeah. The other question I had had I
don't see anything among the listings
here around um education
and again that's another 40 or 50% of
60% of our tax.
>> I will expand public services because
that's what that means. Everything that
the anything that the town offers is a
public service according to ours.
>> Oh,
>> so it's all under the same umbrella,
>> if that makes sense.
>> Okay. I guess when I think of public
services, I don't think of education as
a public service. I think of it as its
own distinct
very large
sub section
that again consumes quite a bit of our
resources here in terms of the tax
liability.
>> What intersection does a master plan
have with
school board?
Well, they have their own deal
obviously, but
>> I I agree with you. It's a huge part of
any town. Certainly, Jackson.
>> I'm sorry. It fits under community
facilities,
the schools and school districts, local
governments.
>> Yeah. I I I guess I'm just concerned
that we we diluted the the language into
something that
you know kind of like
>> I can pull out some of the sections from
here and put that on.
>> Yeah. Just saying including you know
public services, including fire, police,
>> community facilities, including schools.
That would to me that would help just
just because I'm I you know some of
these things I look at and go okay
what's what is that
>> you know what what what is it and just
and to your point you just said it I
believe it's here and then go there
>> I don't care where it goes as long as we
talk about it and fit it in to your
point. I think that we do not obviously
tell the education community what to do
or how to do it, but certainly it's a
factor about whether or not we perceive
that we have a long-term need for or
not. Um, and whether or not it's
something that the town should
continue to support.
Um yeah, in the current national plan
the only thing they had one you had one
goal and it was the township provided
educational system the highest quality
possible and you had two objectives to
plan and you had under municipal human
>> we need babies in the town that's really
that's the
>> what's that we need babies in the town
that's the
>> that's the key
>> that's a different subject
>> I'm out of that Is this
as are many of us?
So, but no, I like the feedback and and
maybe that's what I'll do. And again, I
wasn't sure if this would be distributed
prior to the meeting so people could get
a sense of what they're going to deal
with.
>> I think it would be a good thing to add
part of the notice. Yeah.
Especially if they want to sign up for
something. Uh, you know, I'm going to go
there cuz I want to talk about such.
>> Yeah. You get them thinking about what
they want to talk about.
>> And so you get 18 people all going to
the same place and and you go, "Wait a
minute, we need a few more on this."
And that's kind of why I'm not on this
list
to be that kind of
>> Yes. You need to coordinate.
>> Yes.
>> They'll be attracted by the star power
of the individual facilitators. I'm sure
that's what's going to
>> drive it. That's right.
>> So,
so you'll have a V3 then.
That's the only way I can keep my life
together is I have to understand which
one I'm dealing with.
You will see a read through next
and I'll add some content to the section
so you can react to that too. That'd be
great.
Anybody having trouble with your
assignments?
I mean, besides me working with Jane, I
mean,
I know I'm gonna have to work on my
skills for that day.
You're going to have to put up with me.
Sorry.
>> I'm going to say the same thing for you.
>> I I want to be transferred to waste
reduction and energy. I don't really
think that economic development and
recreational services matches.
>> That might be a good that may be a good
fit for you. I'm not sure. It's a
stretch.
>> Stretch.
>> Be fun to be with Nick.
>> Learning experience.
>> Yeah.
fine.
>> Okay.
>> So, that's the master plan.
>> All righty. Do we have any other stuff
we want to talk about regarding we have
um
we have them listed on
>> So, we had actually before the last
planning board meeting, we had
subcommittee meeting. We met with Sarah
Wrightman kind of walked us through some
of
it's very complicated. Um overall
there's really three general sections.
One is um sort of the original
RSA which is intended to
revitalize mostly uh commercial
historical structures within the
village. Um
the second portion is a residential
revitalization zone which is intended to
revitalize
homes that are 40 years or older.
And this is all giving tax relief to the
um and then the third is a housing
opportunity zone which is directed more
at new developments and that was tied to
um you know 80%
AMI kind of stuff. Um but it's no longer
it's now there are no income
restrictions on it. Um the housing
opportunity zone in terms of housing um
allows us to be a have a bit more
control. I think we have we can require
it be full-time residential.
Um,
but I think what we're really looking
more at is revitalizing some of the
homes in residential that are sort of
falling down, you know, as opposed to
building new stuff. new stuff might be.
Um, the one other thing you can do, I
think just with the housing opportunity
zone is you can require a developer to
prove
that the tax relief is necessary for the
project to go forward,
>> which is obviously a little loose. Um,
the other thing that they haven't really
worked out and no one has really keen
seems to be the town most forward in
putting stuff. There's several towns
that have adopted
>> some of this, but I think it's only Keen
that's actually put forth some real
rules and terms.
>> Um,
uh, what was I saying? Housing
opportunity. Um,
I said you can you can require the
developer to show that they need the tax
relief otherwise it wouldn't happen. I
don't think that's the case for the
residential revitalization. I think that
you know if you qualify cuz your house
is over four years and they have some
very loose benefits to the community
that I think almost any you know any
improvement would would warrant.
um you know there you could have someone
revitalizing their $6 million home and
you know get tax relief. Um whereas you
you know as I said you can require the
developer to prove the need for it in
the the housing opportunity zone. Um, I
think we need to have a another
subcommittee meeting where we kind of
take all of this and formulate
what we want to present.
>> Mhm.
>> Um, maybe talk about it at the next
planning board meeting, make some
tweaks, and then go to a lawyer and, you
know, depending, you know, if we want to
do anything, then go to a lawyer to to
make sure that what we're trying to do
is is legal.
At what point will do you feel it would
be appropriate to do a public hearing?
after speaking after speaking there are
so many there are a few things that
>> that are important or would be critical
or not critical but would be important
parts of it that I think we really need
real legal advice before we I wouldn't
want to put something together and go
before the public before we knew that it
really was going to work
>> and your timing on that is
>> well I think if we have another
subcommittee meeting before the next
planning board meeting the next planning
board meeting we could, you know,
present what we what we think is the way
to go forward, discuss it, make any
changes, and then go to an attorney. Um,
this is September, October.
We should be looking around November
that we'd have something in hand.
>> All right. Um,
>> and I think what we've talked about a
little bit is rather than just the whole
shebang is we might offer it in one or
or two or three stages where you can
adopt the the commercial historical
structure part of it and we can also
adopt you know the residential
revitalization or we can also adopt you
know we can not have it be all or
nothing.
>> Right. Um just to I'm going to do a
mental tickler for myself that we need
to go before the select board to ask
permission to use legal.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
So that was kind of thinking
>> Yeah. What Bob would
>> Yeah. make making sure that we do that.
Well, Scott, what's the kind of the
procon of adopting this or not? Is it a
loss of tax revenue to the town? Is that
>> not directly? I mean, it it means that
you wouldn't Yes, technically you
wouldn't be collecting as much tax from
a property over the next 5 to 10 years
or so. But that's assuming that the
property would have been improved
without the program.
>> If if the property wouldn't have been
improved, then you're not losing
anything cuz the property never would
have gained value in the first place,
>> right?
And longer term, obviously, if you have
an improved property, then it has an
increased value, you just simply
>> after the tax credit,
>> then they're taking on higher taxes for
Medicaid.
>> And the tax break
>> potentially allows somebody to buy the
house,
>> right,
>> at a lower cost to attract more people
into the town, which is what we want to
do with it. Um the one really loose part
of it is say you're a developer
and you know you're it's it's raw land
that you're doing this development on.
How do you calculate the delta between
>> the land value and the developed value?
But as I said it's it's really not being
tested much yet in the state.
>> So on a new development the tax based on
the bank the tax that have been paid to
the land
>> right well no they as I said they they
haven't really sorted that complicated
>> yes
>> at some point
>> but at some point you have a newly
assessed value
>> and you compare that against what you
had
>> right
>> and there is going to be a delta of
sorts and and then the question is how
much of that is
>> um something that you will debate in
terms of It's
>> well restoring versus tearing down. You
restoring can be much more expensive and
so it could help you know if if the tax
is meaningful enough that could kind of
push in push you towards well you know
we'll restore it because we have this
tax break. Is that play here as well?
the idea of wanting to restore.
>> Well, all of this is is sort of
centered, you know, which at least
especially the the original part which
is the historical and commercial, you
know, it's really focused on improving
the economic
um you know, economics of the town, but
it's all about improvements to the town
overall, not just to that owner's
property.
Um,
>> thanks.
>> Just as FYI, the next board meeting, the
next plan board meeting is October 8th.
>> Yeah.
>> So,
>> well, I think if we can, we ought to try
to get together next week.
>> Any other
discussion? Any new for old business?
they would like to discuss.
>> The only thing I want to raise would
sound like it kind of came up at the
spruce discussion
is
>> please do. I'm just being there. Um,
in Jackson, we require a road that
services that serves more than two homes
or if it's in a cluster development,
more than four to be town standard,
but the town is very unlikely to take
any of these really driveways um because
it requires a town vote. Why would the
town vote to to take what is essentially
someone's driveway? Um, and so my
question is,
is there an in between? You know,
because of the cost of
building a road to that town standard,
it it especially for any affordable
development, it really, you know,
becomes an obstacle. Um,
do we need a town, you know, a road of
full town width for sufficient access to
emergency vehicles? Um, I I don't even I
don't know. I'm not suggesting that we
could lower the standards, but I guess
I'm asking, is it possible to have a
lower standard for a driveway that still
is well constructed, that still
provides suitable access for emergency
vehicles, but isn't necessarily full
town width?
>> Yeah, I I spent some time with Jay on
that
>> and um he gave us some information
specifically for current
Um but uh we also talked about exactly
what you're describing. what is the real
point at which you have to insist.
Um and
um
his he's done some research on his end
and he felt that uh if it's uh the break
point is really 10 or more units
would have to definitely there's no
question around the fact that you need
to have it to to your town standard. But
something less than that uh if it met uh
satisfactory
access or emergency vehicles
um that it might be possible to have a
lesser standard and that's based on I
think uh he ended up looking at
a variety of different um
ordinances not only in New Hampshire but
also in the surrounding states and
what's uh allowed
uh by folks who who run, you know, the
fire stations. Um and that's really the
break point that he's determined based
on that. I asked him if he would if he
could provide us with uh some more
information on that so that we could
possibly uh either include it in the
master plan
uh or andor um possibly consider it or
or
>> yeah it's it's definitely coming up um
in a few places. Right. So, Eastfield
Road where I live, right? We've got an
association. There's
three single families and five duplexes,
right? And so that development was like
late8s, brought the road up to a certain
point. Then John built two more beyond
that, and then there's two more beyond
that, and now there's two more beyond
that. The road got paved to a certain
point, and you know, there's different
phases of developers.
down on the road. And so, you know, the
town is, you know, has signed a um
agreement with the HOA to not bring the
road up to standards, but then also the
HOA has not countersigned, but they're
saying that they're going to indemnify
the town for any emergency vehicle
problems and or school bus access and
lots of lots of other things. So, it's
it is becoming an issue. Um, I would
I've never been in an HOA until this
one. I would I would definitely say that
it would be much more efficient for the
town to m have these roads brought to
the standard of the town and have the
town maintain them.
>> Um, you know, there is valuable tax base
here. There's lots of things that
happen.
um you know, we could very easily
tolerate a slight increase in town taxes
and better funding the highway
department versus spending thousands
dollars a month on subcontractors to do
things. So, I think as the town grows
and grows, you're seeing more of these
HOA developments and this is going to
come into a a problem. Um, and so the
the question for me is twofold. Is what
when do we start making exceptions for
stuff that's already been done?
>> Um, the plans that were submitted for
Eastfield Road in 1988 were very clear
like they were supposed to be the town
standards.
>> It wasn't built to town standards.
>> And so, and then the next time it wasn't
really built to town standards and so we
have this slippage happening all the
time. And now all of a sudden we have 12
houses on the road
>> and it's a bit of a mess. which is
partly why we we jumped to this high
standard.
>> Y
>> and now we require that a bond be put
up.
>> But even now, like the gentleman at the
top of the road that owns the two lots,
which would be four houses, right? The
town is now making a separate deal to
say, "Well, you don't have to pave the
road and bring it up to town standards."
So, we're still making bad deals in my
opinion. So, the rules are only good if
we enforce them.
Well, yeah. And that that's a great
question about what you do when the town
does not meet,
you know, its standard. And we've had
that as an issue in the past, obviously.
Um, and I don't want to talk about
former SL people
possibly having agreed to do things like
that, but um,
>> no, enforcement is half the battle. M
>> it's the will to enforce. Excuse me.
Uh
no one select ever did it alone.
>> Yeah.
>> Doesn't happen that way.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh if there isn't that will
things slip, you know, there it goes.
My question is are these regulations all
from the town or is anything coming down
from the state on what we have to
provide
for facilities.
>> It's all town zoning right now that I've
seen.
>> As far as I'm aware, it is town related.
Yeah. Is it is it the same in every is
it a state thing that
have that the
legislative body has to vote take a road
or is that just Jackson?
Uh, no, that's that's the state.
>> That's the state. I known that one,
>> which is the difficulty because, you
know, the voters are rarely going to
even though I, you know, I understand
what you're saying.
>> I mean, I think the voters like if we
let's let's just say that we had a
development like the Zip Black Mountain,
right? There's, you know, 3 miles of
road and 40 units, right? Like the
math's really simple. it we would be
better served to have the 40 units in
the tax base and you know spend a few
thousand dollars extra. It's pretty
incremental costs like to plow an extra
three miles of road especially when
you're doing every road around it. Um so
I mean I would argue it it would it
would be a you know it's pretty simple
math. Um but
they just it just keeps slipping right
and and so you saw that 1988 thing and
the town said yes this is how you have
to build the road. There was a plan
submitted by HV engineers and then it
slipped and then it slipped and then the
next one. Yeah. And it just it sort of
keeps going and then you put the HOA in
this position where it's like okay now
it's a4 million to bring this road up to
spec and everyone's like oh no
>> yeah we're not going to do that.
>> We can't do that. Like we need a
variance now. And it's like, well, okay,
but and then what you end up with is you
end up with a road that, you know,
right at my house, like prior to that,
it's great. Like, yes, I feel very
comfortable. Jay feels comfortable
getting something up there, a school
bus. You get above that, it it gets
pretty gnarly. And it's not a driveway,
>> right? Like you've got six units on that
thing. It's not a driveway.
>> Yeah. And we have a variety of private
roads in town that have been around
forever.
>> Um, and
>> yeah, it's hard as it is to get an HOA
to agree to pay it. Try we have separate
residents.
>> It's hard enough to get one person to
decide H. If you haven't been in an HOA
before, uh, I've been in three of them
and and and none of them I've ever been
in.
ever agreed to anything that requires
spending money.
>> Y
>> uh unless you get to a point where the
safety issue is so large that um either
you can't sell your unit
>> or you can't get a a mortgage for a
unit. So, um that that's
>> I think insurance and mortgage is the
driving force there.
>> Yeah. I just I think we're we're we're
kicking the can down the road pretty
consistently on these things and we're
you know I don't think it's overall
great for the town. I think if we're
going to have standards like we and we
have the standards standards are very
clear just uphold the standards
>> but the standards and that's how how
zoning works. It's going forward. It's
not looking back. And so you you can't
force people to
>> retroactively, of course,
>> retroactively
be part of that. And and where the state
is going to your point around what's
allowed by the state, they're actually
now saying that a a local uh
municipality cannot prevent someone from
building on the class 6 road.
>> Uh and still
>> So what so
>> and still have uh pardon? Well, what
responsibilities does the town have if
you build on a class and we have a
couple class five and six roads
>> that are not plowed as far as
>> well the state requires that that if you
are going to do that yes I agree they're
heading in that direction for sure but
they are requiring that you indemnify
the town from those
>> you wave the town's responsibility
>> so the town is not responsible for
plowing
>> right which is the current status
>> it's just they're what they're doing is
um removing the town's ability to say
you can't
>> right
>> right now uh you can individually put in
your zoning ordinance no you cannot put
a property and do the indemnification
process okay at all
>> and now the state's saying yeah you can
do that as long as you do the
indemnification
and so you can't uh prohibit
>> that's interesting because what you know
indemnification always assumes there's
some money to backs stop that
indemnification so is it truly
Idemnification like if if there's some
third party that brings an action
against the town that you land owner
have to identify the town. Is that is
that is that what
>> Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't I wouldn't go
that how I've read it. I wouldn't say
it's that. It's the property owner
indemnifying the town of access. I don't
think it's a true third party
identification.
No, I don't think there's anything
other than some statement that says if
firet trucks can't get there
>> because of this road that I live on.
>> Yeah. You're not going to
>> I'm not going to sue the town.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. And school bus too. School bus
access has been thrown in there.
>> Kids walk town. But I mean we we like
currently though in front of the select
board right now the select board in the
last meeting signed
an agreement that hasn't been
countersigned that undermined the road
standards and said look we are not going
to deny a building permit to do at the
top of Eastfield Road because the road's
not up to standards. So,
you know, it it and you know, again, we
can make all the standards we want, but
if then we go great,
>> because really the the only time that
you truly have to enforce those is when
you're going to issue the building
permit. That's when you only that's when
you have the leverage.
>> Once the building permit's done, the
certificate of occupancy is done. It's
like,
>> right, but the developer would have had
to build the road all the way to the
bottom on property that he didn't
develop, right? Yeah.