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Like I said, I don't think we're not
expecting anyone online. And um
uh
Harrison Potter can't attend and Steven
Fellows tender tendered his resignation.
So, um yeah, I think we're good to go.
Um
no one in the audience which is useful.
the
additional agenda item we spoke about
earlier was um
>> web page.
>> Yeah, the web page issue. Um so we'll
address that after
um the recurring discussion on chairs.
Uh if that's good with everyone. Good
with everyone.
does anyone have anything else they want
to add to the agenda?
No. Good. Um
minutes. Uh we have two months of
minutes.
Does anyone have any thoughts? They
looked I I gave them a skim. They looked
thorough. I didn't didn't look for
detail.
>> It's not like I remember anything these
days anyway.
>> I have the tiniest little correction for
the June. Uh I should be stricken from
>> Oh,
>> I didn't attend because I was on a boat
off the coast of Alaska. So,
>> right. I haven't I haven't perfected my
ability to be two places at once yet.
So,
>> still working on that.
>> I'm still working on that.
>> Quantum computing is still a little bit
off. Um,
>> yeah, my entangled self.
Uh, so that seems minor enough to
approve uh with the expected revision.
Um,
anything else?
Nope. Okay. Um,
>> can we approve these both together in a
single vote or do we have to do it month
by month?
>> I was going to propose that we approve
them both together. I think it's a minor
item.
So, um, so yeah, I appro I propose we
approve these minutes. Uh, I think I
need a second.
>> Second.
>> All in favor? All right.
>> Unanimous. Great.
>> I'll send a revision with
>> Yeah.
>> Uh your name deleted.
>> Yep. And just make sure Karen's CC
should be good.
any further thoughts on chairing? Uh it
sounded like we had a a decent
um diary.
um idea
last month.
>> Two pro counselss, if you will.
>> Yeah, I think
Jim may take like the helm and then I
act as assistant or I forget the wording
we're using.
>> No, you have to have the responsibility.
He'll help you figure out how to do
everything.
>> Okay. Yeah, I we'll actively work
together. Yeah. Okay.
which you know,
>> I'll just recycle agendas from a couple
years ago. [laughter]
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well,
>> there you go.
>> Bring up
>> inflation reduction actems and stuff.
>> Okay, cool. Um,
so
[clears throat and cough]
yeah. um
just in case with the getting ready for
pregnancy uh stuff. Um
we should if we can we should probably
officially decide on that um
this meeting just in case I can't
attend.
>> That close are you?
>> Due date is due date is 8:20.
>> You're close. Yeah.
Well, you know,
>> health concerns and such.
>> They don't always follow a calendar
there, you know.
>> Exactly.
>> I had one come at 28
week.
>> Wow.
>> Like
>> that's crazy.
I mean, usually the first one is is
later, but
>> first one came early.
>> Yeah, I know. It can swing. The pendulum
can swing both ways.
>> Yep.
So, um,
uh, Jim, remind me, uh, the
way it was discussed, um, does there
have to be, there doesn't have to be a
chair and vice chair or do we have to
determine those roles specifically or
can we do two co-chairs?
>> We got the flexibility.
>> Great. That's what I like to hear.
So, I proposed we'd go with
a resolution on co-chairs
and um
you know,
as long as we keep telling
Karen and Todd what we're doing, I think
we can switch around roles if after a
few months things don't work, don't make
sense or um you know, other people show
interest Or I mean, we have a couple
vacancies, so some other people might
show up. Might have another
nerd like me show up and just be ready
to be uh suckered into this role.
>> You can What other group can come in and
start the day with quantum entanglement
jokes? [laughter]
>> [laughter]
>> Um, but yeah, no, I I I propose um
yeah, I had to look up your last name. I
propose Christopher Smith and Jim Lawson
take on the role of co-chair going
forward.
>> All in favor?
>> Easy peasy lemon squeezy.
>> Thank you, gentlemen.
>> Thank you guys. Aren't they supposed to
bribe us a little bit or something these
positions of power
>> in this economy? [laughter]
>> Yeah, man. [snorts]
[laughter]
Thing about town government is the more
positional status you have, the more
work you have to do. That's pretty much
it.
Um so so with that I think we're um
moving on to uh Karen's website.
you proposed that you're willing to go
and find dead links and stuff.
>> I would go and make a review of the
content.
>> Uhhuh. Now, the deadline is the 20th.
We're not going to meet obviously before
the stuff is due. So, I assume I would
drop something with a proposal for
replacement. Do it by email.
>> And then if we get enough, then I just
send it off to Karen and we're good.
>> Does that sound like a good plan?
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Um
usual rules um on reply all still stand.
So people will be responding directly to
you.
>> And um
cuz cuz we can't we can't go back and
forth with the whole DEC list serve um
over whether or not something should be
included or because then it becomes a an
official committee meeting. But if if
you want a couple other people to
discuss it with, we can designate like a
working group.
>> Why don't we do that?
>> Yeah, perhaps would make sense.
>> Um
I'm willing to help with that. I was
also going to ask what the um what the
outcome of our decision- making is. Are
we supposed to go in and make the
changes in the current
>> Karen said there's there's a new there's
a new web design or something coming and
this is the deadline for meet that. So I
assume we just ship the information off
and the web designer kind of puts it in
place.
>> Okay. So they're going to make the
changes as they transition it.
>> I assume we just say here's what we want
and they make it happen. I assume I mean
I'll contact Karen. Is this the way that
we should proceed?
>> I think your assumption is right. I
think there's a need to clean up all the
dead links and things like that before
they transition to the new system. And I
think the thing that we need to start
thinking about in the future is is how
as a group do we have a subcommittee or
whatever that kind of keeps the website
or our web page and interesting and
pertinent, you know, and um you know, it
it it takes some focus and you know
>> and consistent work unfortunately
>> and it it needs you know for for the
folks that may be focusing on that that
they need input from everybody. Hey, I I
think this would be interesting, you
know. Um, so it's it's just not not
them, you know, figuring out what what
content should be there.
>> I think it's a great idea and maybe it
should on a regular basis appear as an
agenda item. Any new ideas,
brainstorming around?
>> Yeah, I was going to say it should
definitely be one of the standing goal
agenda items on education. Um, I think
that's one. And um
so essentially the
pre July 20 stuff is what needs to be
deleted. And then
meetings are where whoever's
working on the website, you two and
possibly one other person. you guys or
anyone else can bring stuff to discuss
at a committee meeting to add to the
website. So
>> So yeah,
>> and and didn't quite follow it. You said
the pre- July stuff gets deleted.
>> Oh, so so the the deadline that is in
Karen's
uh email in regards to the new web
master coming in and redoing the
website. Um, we have to find like the
dead links and
>> just just on that resources page, right?
>> Well, and there's a couple other pages
that um have
>> a few other resource links and stuff
kind of dispersed throughout them.
>> Um, and then and the other
>> obvious um
issue is um
contact info. I think Michael's still
listed as chair, for example.
>> So, so this will just be about
correcting the contact info, finding
everything that like just shouldn't be
there anyway, and then then we'll have
to have a phase of rebuilding the
website after that.
>> So, just to confirm, who the two fellow
committee members I'm working with on
this,
>> Steve, you got one. You got
>> There you go. I mean I I've
>> you guys have a lot of experience in
what the energy committee tends to put
on the website
>> and I've been editing the website as we
have
>> and on yeah
>> you know CPC&H stuff but yeah it hasn't
obviously been a priority of the
committee to really
keep the website you know lively which I
I agree you know we need it takes some
focus it takes some effort to for us to
figure out what what is it that is going
to drive you know traffic to this what
do we want to communicate to people? Um
>> yeah, I think we put so much
rightly
it's not a regret but like the the
entire EV ordinance exercise kind of
pushed everything else kind of to the
side. though, you know, um, you know,
the website is
I think we've we haven't been able to
make it as as useful of a engagement
tool as we could have just because um
we've been a bit worried about
complicated issues. Also, I don't know
if the current website has has any
tracking capabilities or statistic.
>> I'll ask that's a good that's a good
thought. I'll ask about that.
>> You know, because
>> my deduction is is the uh
is the switch is probably going to
enable a bit of that.
>> Yeah. So, that would be helpful.
>> Yeah, I'll ask. That's a really good
idea
>> because then at least we can find out,
well, what are people clicking on? you
know that's right
>> right now
>> it's it's a pretty crude website system
at the moment
>> so I assume a lot of that is is going to
be a functionality upgrade too
>> and that that should help if if we're
getting more functionality in the new
website then some things will be a lot
easier like I mean you can't even cut
and paste pictures on the I mean it's
just
>> editing the website should be easier
>> okay Cool.
well, that's covered.
I put Durham Day planning first.
>> Actually, could I Yeah.
>> One more administrative item. Um, I was
contacted by the u uh Durham Democratic
Committee. Uh they're going to be having
a candidates debate for candidates to
New Hampshire legislature on August
27th.
Um and they um asked if we would
consider
between now and in August so we could
talk about it in the August meeting, but
maybe people could start thinking about
it. Several questions related to energy.
Um and um
they would most likely select one of
those um questions for the forum and all
we'll have to do is kick Mr. Rasmusen
out during that conversation because
he's one of the candidates. So we
wouldn't want to give him a big heads
up. Um but um that that's something that
we should put onto the August agenda.
>> Yeah. And
>> if we want to do it. I got an email from
if I can find it.
>> Susan Richmond.
>> Yeah. Yeah. You guys saw that?
>> Y
>> that could probably be fleshed out a
little bit more. I
>> I just one piece of advice.
keeping in mind that all the candidates
are centered to left.
um
come up with questions that would allow
some differentiation
and the answers from that kind of group.
>> Yeah. Do you think renewable energy is
good is probably not going to have a
very interesting
>> a question like that is, you know, waste
of time. It's waste of our time and
frankly they just won't won't select it.
So
>> Susan's suggestion on what can you do in
the legislature
a for climate change but perhaps energy
costs and energy mixture is is a more
effective mix. That was just some
thoughts I had but like
>> we can probably come up with something a
bit better. the um so you're going to
have three veterans and four fresh four
people who are trying to become a
freshman legislator.
>> So it's seven people.
>> Seven people.
>> Fun.
>> Um and the one thing they're druming in
the heads of the freshman don't try to
do any legislation your first year.
>> Yeah, that makes sense.
>> So a question like what would you do?
I'm told not to do anything.
That's that's interesting because for
freshman legislators, they specifically
um have a time frame for
>> they do
>> their submission of um
essentially candidate legislation. So I
um I I've been talking to people other
than Susan. So um so anyways, let's
let's work on in August. Yeah. And
>> yeah, I think that could be very help.
Is it all just for this one district?
>> Yep. Yes.
>> There's four seats to fill.
>> Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense.
It still blows my mind that there's 400
people in the state legislature and they
get paid $100.
But I come from the south where like
state congress people like that's their
living, you know?
>> And there's like it's been the family
calling for generations.
>> Yeah. It's also the way we run our town
with an iron fist. [laughter]
The other thing related to that, and I
think we can talk more about this in in
August,
um is in September, uh they do the
legislative service request for
potential new bills for um uh returning,
uh members and then newly elected, I
believe, slot into November. I think
would be interesting to um talk with um
Sarah Brock at New Hampshire uh clean
energy and kind of get a sense of what
they view as legislative priorities. Um
because if those priorities sync up with
this committee and we feel they sync up
with Durham, then we could potentially
provide guidance to the town council
about doing either resolution or um uh
having Todd send a letter in support of
legislation that that that we think is
important. But I I think Sarah would be
a a good good conduit for that type of
type of information.
>> Yeah, I think she and Chris uh put out a
article at the wrap-up of the last
legislative
>> session about like what they hoped would
happen going forward.
>> But you know
>> was a few months ago.
>> Well, we we can't make you know six
things or dozen things a priority. And
so what is the one or two priorities
that may fit well with with Durham? So
>> anyways, that that's my administrative
>> that's that's good.
>> I I can also bring back the you know the
current view from the legislative
subcommittee at CPC and they you know
probably have similar but maybe not
identical priority lists.
There's also kind of a hot button issue
that came up. [snorts]
I think it might have been last week.
One of the Republican legisl legislators
um specifically called out Durham as
>> communist,
>> overly restrictive on zoning. They're
they're trying to come out with
legislation that would apparently,
as far as I can tell,
direct towns to follow a state zoning
code of some kind.
>> Yeah, there's
>> No. No. So,
>> am I am I misinterpreting that? He you
might be interpreting what he said
correctly, but what he was complaining
about and doing a really bad job at
explaining
>> the quote was not building codes, not
zoning codes.
>> Yeah. So, he was conflating two things.
>> He he was and that that came back to
uh couple years ago when M was on the
planning board.
>> Yeah. she was pushing for
um advancing to the next higher level of
energy the 20 so I guess at the time it
would have been the 2021 version and
there state was still in 2018.
>> Yeah and em and I talked about that with
that
>> we actually adopted the higher zone back
in 2011.
>> Yep. Um, so it was mainly so Durham has
been an outlier in terms of requiring
higher energy standards than other New
Hampshire communities. There may have
been one or two others that that adopted
it. So, and the interesting thing is is
that feedback from developers
um, at least the ones that I had talked
to is they were um, somewhat frustrated
by it because there were costs
associated with it. cost in building and
also costs in testing um to meet certain
requirements. The interesting thing is
the feedback when um they had completed
their projects and had time um with the
projects running um they actually were
uh expressed um
um they were pleased with the fact that
they really had some tangible they
thought operational costs um reductions
um lower energy costs um pime primarily
and you know it almost sounded like if
they'd had the option knowing what they
knew, they would have done the the the
same thing. But uh there certainly has
been a lot of um angst with the building
community that um other or industry that
other communities would would adopt what
Durham had. And then there's also been,
you know, Durham's, I mean, New
Hampshire, you know, local control, but
we're seeing from the standpoint of
zoning a lot of local control kind of
eroding in terms of some of the zoning
partic or state requirements
particularly around um around housing.
And it seems like there's some rumblings
at the state level that like
maybe those zoning rules, not building
code rules, but those zoning rules
should act should be
enforced across the board on the state.
Um, and of course this all links up with
all the data center curve levels as
well. Um,
>> what were some of those operational
things that builders were pleased? I
mean, was it was it around like air
sealing and things like that?
>> Yeah, like ceiling insulation standards.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Materials sometimes, but usually just
like Yeah. You forced us to use good
windows and like we notice they work.
>> Um,
>> all the windows aren't a big
energy.
>> Yeah,
>> that's to do more with
>> with other things in the building.
>> But but you're right in assuming
generally building envelope related.
>> um
>> okay. Yeah.
So, um, you said that was after a date I
care about, right? 8:27.
>> Mhm.
>> Cool.
I'm I'm preparing myself to uh just not
sleep for 6 months. [laughter]
>> Deep reflection
meaningfully, right?
There's like a whole list of I need
to get done [laughter]
in the next month, too.
>> At least there's a floor in the nursery
now. Um,
okay, cool.
So, it's like one question, right?
That's what you said at the beginning.
>> Yeah, we we could come up with a couple
of questions and then they would if we
want to and then they would would choose
one.
>> Yeah. um they may choose to not choose
any, but um for the u potential return
on investment, it seems like spending
some time on it would be worthwhile.
>> A two-part question regarding energy
standards
and
data centers might be juicy enough to
make someone bite.
Okay. Um,
anything else on the admin front?
Uh, we're making good times. So,
[clears throat]
um, I want to put the derm day thing
last and just make sure we don't have
too much to say about any of the other
topics. Uh,
which brings Steve up to bat.
I send out a brief uh update. So uh it's
June and the the rates are um being set
for the next um rate period which starts
in August. The uh CPCNH is rate is now
within a penny of the Eversource rate.
So that was um a great feeling of u
accomplishment for the CPC&H folks. So
the rate CPC&H rate is 14.949
and Eversource is 14.009
>> and uh which level
>> this is for residential
>> uh for CBCNH is that like 33 renewable?
>> Yeah. No, that's No, that's the regular
25%.
>> That's the 25.
>> Uh
>> could you repeat those rates? Um
so the CBC rate is 14.949
and Eversource is 14.009.
So it's within 6.7% of the Eversource
rate. So so that was was good news. And
uh um Eversource's rate increased
almost 24% over their last period's
rate. and you know they are now having
to recover they're under recovery uh
they're under collection for the last
couple of rate periods they um according
to their filings with the PC they are
like $38 million
behind
uh so they have to make that up over the
next 12 months
um and that's so that is going to get
reflected in their rates they had
proposed a rate of 15 cents
But the PUC wouldn't apparently approve
that. So their rate came down to 14
cents because they said, you know, we'd
be able to make more progress on this
recovery if we could, you know, set the
rate at 15 cents, but the PUC wouldn't
let them. So anyway, the takeaway from
that is that expect more impact to rates
in February when they have to set their
rates again. So um so the CPC and H
rates you know were set um you know
carefully based on the cost of power you
know anticipated cost of power the
contracts for power that they procured
ahead of time the cost of service which
means the cost of delivering the power
through Eversource and these other so
there's a slight variation the CPC and H
rates whether you're ever liberty or
unit um because there are differences in
in the cost of of getting it through to
the last mile. Um [clears throat] the uh
we also of course cover our operating
expenses and a portion of it for the
reserve fund. Uh currently we have 67
cents um for uh the reserve contribution
and that's going to keep us on a
trajectory where we hope to be have our
our reserve um and uh up to a level by
next April where we can be no longer
financing any of our of our operating
costs. So, right now we have, you know,
we're we have some financing balances.
Um, and hopefully those are those are
all going to be paid off and we that
will save us another bunch of money
because of interest cost.
>> Yeah. So then once you hit that, you can
probably be within a couple basis
points.
>> Yeah. So anyway, we're we we feel like
we're on a good trajectory. We're we're
getting uh back more competitive. the
corrections for Eversource are coming
in. So that's helping, you know, level
the playing field again and uh hopefully
that disparity will continue to shrink
over time.
>> Yeah, they'll probably try to get above
15, not just hit 15 during the winter
because historically
utilities can get away with a higher
percentage rate increase during during
the winter.
>> Because of lower load.
>> So yeah. Anyway, so that was that was
good news for um for the rate setting
process. Everybody was sweating that
one. Uh and it's looking looking
reasonable. So
>> So is Eversource
I think last month uh you had said 35
million needed for recovery. Now it's 38
or so are they continuing
[clears throat] to kind of
>> the number 35 was the reserve line for
CBCNH. 38 million is Eversource's
current um unreovered expenditure from
them poorly planning fuel procurement
last year.
>> They just decided to pay an extra 200%
for fuel.
>> So we did talk about this last night
briefly at the town council. I think
town council also kind of had a sigh of
relief um because it was um going to be
difficult to justify a 30% price
differential like in the current um and
I think everybody including myself when
I was starting to put together the data
was surprised just how much the u the
gap had changed and plus the information
you provided about the essentially the
underfunding. Um I uh I just I think it
was it was wellreceived. It people I
think felt like they were on the right
track.
>> Good.
>> Yeah. Um Eversource New Hampshire has um
>> Yeah, they've kind of had to play
catchup all year internally. Um,
and uh,
the only thing that has stopped them
from having their rates like really jump
up is the PC preventing them from
>> from adjusting to completely recoup.
>> I mean I mean it's a it's a tricky
issue. Uh, Liberty uh, I don't know if
you're you know that's not a provider
for us, but Liberty is another uh,
utility in New Hampshire. their market
share has shrunk. I mean, because a lot
of their customers have moved to CPC&H.
So, they have far fewer customers now
that they're buying power for. And yet,
they underolcted. So, now they got a
smaller base to spread their
undercollection problem over.
>> And so, it's a it's a death spiral.
They're really struggling, you know, and
the more they raise their rates, the
more the customers flee. So, uh, you
know, that's an ugly problem that, uh,
you know, I don't know what exactly
where they're going to end up.
>> It's the balance of dividends versus,
um, grid maintenance. And the more you
favor dividends,
the lower,
uh, the quality of your grid maintenance
is, it's like always been a trade-off.
>> Is that a historical problem for them?
Is that what happened there?
>> I mean, it's something that's kind of
started popping up in various ways for
various utilities across the country
after the deregulation movement in the
1990s.
there's a difference between a public
service and utilities became a commodity
>> and that's that's when that dichotomy
uh became a bigger deal because then
things like private equity get involved
and they want their cut no matter what.
>> Just a point of order. We have a member
from the public. Hi Liz. Oh, Matt.
>> and uh Liz was kind of pushing the CPAC
issue.
>> Yes, I start at 7:30. I had that on
>> and we got an email from Jim about Cacer
today, but it's not on the agenda.
>> Yeah. No, I don't tie some
>> Let's squeeze it in.
>> Squeeze that in.
>> So, I don't know how you want to handle
the now or
>> address yourself to the committee.
>> Um, yeah, I had emailed uh Todd about
the CPACER program after meeting with
Karine Krine at the Freedom Cafe about
CPACER
>> and just wanted to I saw it in the
agenda. I saw it in the meeting notes
from previous meetings and then kind of
lost track of it and just yeah wanted to
see where it's at. Looked like
>> Jim can tell you all about a resolution
that happened yesterday.
>> Oh, great. I'm saying that
>> it was discussed
>> Do you want me to?
>> Yeah, please go ahead.
>> So, um, a lot of this is going to be an
up update for for everyone. Um, first,
um, so many programs that we do in
Durham are really straightforward to
implement. We basically do a resolution
and we authorize the administrator to
sign what other whatever documents are
are are necessary and um um possibly
with another resolution you like for RSA
79E and other programs. You know, it's
it's exactly what we we do with C
CPACER. It's turned out that um it's
it's a little bit more complicated to
put in place. Um but it's manageable.
Um, it's complicated, a little more
complicated because the state has some
specific requirements for public
hearings about determining the public
benefit. Um, and the New Hampshire
Finance Banking Authority, um, they have
a specific way that they want towns to
implement it. um which requires uh the
town's actually doing an ordinance um
which typically Durham would would not
do for for a program. So, um I've been
in contact with um the um uh chair of
the Rye Energy Committee because they're
about a about two months ahead of us and
um I feel really confident that um we're
now in sync with what um w with what Bry
has done. So, here's where we we're at.
We adopted CPACE originally back in
2010, but we never implemented it. So
last night there was a resolution to um
essentially resend the 2010 resolution
adopting CPACER. So now we kind of have
wiped the slate clean. Um, the second is
is I have drafted
uh an ordinance
um based on the uh New Hampshire Bank
Finance Authority
um that um I'm going to ask the town
council to eventually adopt even though
it's not the way that we would normally
do it because we do this using the same
template. what I put together as a draft
is essentially
the same as what Ry uh had has put
together and actually accepted as an
ordinance and submitted to the to the
banking authority
>> and and that was one of the advantages
of them signing on to the program,
right? The financing the the banking
authority being able to kind of help
standardize this.
Yeah. To to administrate it. I mean that
was what I think was missing in 2010.
Although um
>> I think a number of particularly cities
will have some issues with having to do
an ordinance.
>> Right.
>> Okay. So
>> don't tell me what to do. Well, um
there's certain provisions that you need
to be I mean basically we're having to
develop a town code just like you know
we have leash laws.
>> Stop signs. Well, we're having to
develop a town code that is specific to
CPacer. Okay. And that's why it's so
unusual. Right. After the leash law,
there's an ordinance related to a
program that we want to adopt in the
town code.
>> Yeah. And one's about public safety and
the other.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Or leash laws or zoning or
thing things like that. But, you know,
sometimes you just need to take the path
of least resistance, you know, rather
than saying, you know, we want to do it
a different way or better way or
something like that. So, anyways, I've
I've drafted that that ordinance. So,
>> do you still have to draw the lines on
the district?
>> Yeah. So, we need to do the do the
following is um the town council, which
I did not have them do um yesterday, but
the town council first needs to define
the district. Um we're going to I think
do what we did in 2010. And what's
recommended is make the entire town the
district. Okay? So, it will not be
specific areas even though it's not
applicable to to residential. Um but
make the entire town the um um the
district. The second thing that we have
to do
>> something about that.
>> Just cuz I'm not as acquainted um with
the town's rules as I somehow am other
towns rules. Um
there's no issue with
the rural district
along along with the residential
district, right? It's kind of the same
same thing.
>> okay. Cool.
>> And and most most communities have you
residential and rural districts. And
again, the recommendation is
>> um to make your entire town the
district. Gotcha.
>> Um and you think you may have a
commercial business which is agriculture
and they may want to take um advantage
of CPACER. So then uh by the state RSA
we need to hold a public hearing that um
CPACER provides a public benefit even
though there'll be an incidental benefit
to private parties the we have to have a
public hearing and the town council
needs to determine that there is a
public benefit. which is a town council
hearing
>> and then um so we'll probably do that in
one meeting and then the following
meeting we'll have to have a um uh
public hearing to actually adopt uh the
ordinance. Um so I'd say realistically
we're going to be in the the September
uh time frame. If we could have moved
forward with a resolution allowing the
town administrator to just sign the
participation agreement, you know, we
could move forward much faster. But in
all, I I think it's going to, you know,
there's there's no development right now
that says, oh, we need CPAC, but I think
that we're on the verge of it
potentially providing some some
benefits. So, I'm I'm comfortable with
the the timing. And is the logic for the
requirement for an ordinance over a
resolution that the finance authority
just wants sort of great teeth on the
thing or
>> Yeah, this is how we want it. Here's the
template we want.
>> Um here's the participation agreement
>> I just um
>> I hope to convince Todd and the council
that yeah, we may think there is a
better way to do it, but let's let's
just get it done.
So I don't know if that said health or
to me.
>> So
>> So yeah, you know, it it seems like a
relatively easy thing for us, which is
why we recommended it.
>> So this committee discussed it, we sent
our recommendation to the council, and
now it's kind of out of our out of our
hands.
Where do you see the committee helping
in either finding the benefit for the
town or during public hearing? What what
would you want the committee to be
doing?
that is a good question. Um, I'm going
to need to think about it. My plan in
the council communication
is to outline
what um I see as the public benefits.
But maybe if the committee has a chance
to review that um in advance of that
meeting, maybe it could be in the
context of the energy committee sees the
following, you know, benefits. Um, I
know in other communities there's been
no resistance to the idea of um there
being a a public benefit, although I'm
the only towns I I'm aware of that have
implemented are um Lebanon and Rye.
Maybe there's somebody else, but those
those are the only two. And of course,
you know, the other public benefit that
you can always try to cite is
more commercial investment
>> changes, tax burdens, you know,
>> theoretically if you want to keep
talking. Yeah, please come up.
So I'm thinking a lot about the UNH
development that's going on with part
public partners part public partnerships
with private entities and that they
might also be willing to say like at a
public meeting that this would benefit
us greatly to
>> yeah I believe UNH has expressed their
approval of it to Todd
>> but I don't know you you the edge
>> yeah thinking of the edge I'm thinking
of the research and innovation how
they're trying to build that up in a bit
more of a capacity and get more private
industry on campus
>> and so they're located on campus but
it's a lease so they would be eligible
but they're not property owner
>> right so that's why I had a question was
like do does that still qualify in that
realm if they're
>> well I mean I think a lot of those uh a
lot of those monies are kind of in the
form of
sort of investment type partnerships
>> but it's I I mean, CPACER is a tax thing
on a property.
>> Yes.
>> And UNH owns the property and doesn't
have a tax burden and they're leasing
the property. So they're the
>> That's a question for UNH's lawyers cuz
I mean
>> and maybe the CPA cuz I mean I mean
>> the way UNH is sort of a land grant
university but also not
>> utility
you know like
>> the the the challenge is is that I um so
Cacer cannot be used by municipalities.
It cannot be used
it can be used by nonprofits.
>> and UNH, we're not allowed to tell UNH
anything. So,
>> well, I don't think it's I think state
agencies and the state other state
entities are also not allowed to use it.
>> Correct. So what what I don't know the
nuance is if um
the mechanism [clears throat]
>> if UNH owns the buildings and is leasing
them can a lease holder do improvements
using CPACER you know I mean there's
some some complexities but it's really
it's really the New Hampshire um u
business finance authority that that we
need to ask the the question. So, I
hadn't I hadn't looked when I was
reading through it, I hadn't thought
about that development, but I can read
through it again.
>> Yeah. Well, the mechanism, the
enforcement mechanism is a lean on the
property. So, if they're not able to put
a lean on the on a university's
property, then
>> there's no there's no collateral, right?
>> In which case, would it be better than
to be talking amongst the local business
owners that are more like downtown that
would benefit? That's what our
discussion has been is how would it
benefit local businesses or stimulate
>> Yeah. We hadn't think about at all.
>> Because of the tax, it's tied to the
property tax which doesn't exist.
>> And it it can also be used um for
multi-unit housing when there's five or
more units,
>> right?
>> So, there's certainly some older
properties in Durham that probably could
benefit from the investment. Um, plus
any new development that occurs in turn.
>> Yeah, I mean, there's certainly some
multi-unit buildings that may or may not
have owners that are like, man, I'd
really like to start over.
And there are some complexities for
the developers that are easy to work
through. But for instance, they can't um
um make an independent decision that
they're going to do cpacer. they need to
um essentially get the buy in or
permission of the primary financers of
the project and things like that because
um they'll be putting a lean, you know,
there will be a lean on the property
ahead of those um uh financers. So they
they have to be involved in saying it's
it's okay. So,
>> yeah. And I wouldn't be surprised if
especially on the actual construction
work financing side, there'll be
entities that have no problem with that
and other entities that um object to it.
I know I know my dad, one of one of my
dad's bosses uh building houses in
Atlanta had no problem loaning taking
out loans against a lean on the
property. But, you know, he had another
boss who would never imagine doing that.
Um, so it depends on how people's cash
flows work. What I what I envision
though is is that the primary financers
of a project
may view it favorably because it is
a cost effective way to make energy
improvements
that end up positively affecting the
proforma from two standpoints. Reduced
operational costs and reduce um
essentially financing costs. um to do
those improvements. So it may be that
somebody using CPACER ends up with a
proforma that is better than the
proforma that would they would have with
their financer with without the program.
>> The rates are certainly attractive in
the current market. So
>> and it is available for new
construction.
>> Yep. Yep.
>> And you know, as this goes forward, um
you're subscribed to Friday
announcements.
>> I believe they go to my husband's email
that I can tell.
>> Yeah, it'll it'll probably be um
announced either
>> in the energy committee section or in
the town council section. Okay.
And there will and like you said, the
town council will be having a public
hearing on the public benefit for it,
which you know, if you're a supporter of
it, they'll they'll definitely want to
hear hear that.
So to net it out, I mean, I I have two
two big things in on the we have one
meeting in August and I have two big
things on the agenda. One is to do a
presentation on parking utilization and
statistics downtown. And the second is
um CPACER.
Um and the CPACER is going to take a
hefty well doumented council
communication. Uh it cannot be a council
communication that's two pages saying
this is great, go ahead with it. So, um,
my plan is is we get through July, I'm
going to send something out to everybody
in case you have comments, whether
they're substantive, hey, you need to
add this in, or, hey, your grammar here,
you're writing like an engineer, you
know, make it sound cleaner. Um, but,
um, cuz I I I need to have that put
together for early August. So,
and I'd never heard of CP pacer three
months ago. So,
>> is that something cleaner can help you
with?
>> Yeah. Um, we're um we we've been engaged
with uh Sarah Brock. Um but um
you know they have only so many cycles
and a lot has been focused on
legislative and so um
so we're we're depending more on
interacting with uh the New Hampshire
Municip Municipal Association and then
the uh uh banking authority.
in our early conversations about CP uh
we sort of brought that together with
some inquiries we had gotten from ways
meetat um and I I don't know if we ever
figured out whether they were above or
below the threshold and the kind of
improvements that they were trying to
make. I I don't remember how many
dwellings they have. Is it five, six,
something like that?
>> I mean my sense is that they're not
individual dwelling units.
>> Okay. It's like one
>> I'm not I don't know how to read the
>> New Hampshire.
>> You were talking about waste means uh
energy usage question. They had to pull
the trigger long before
>> Oh, they did. Okay. They were Yeah, they
already had
>> they were that close. Yeah. Yeah.
>> They were going to get cold quick.
>> I I bring that up because it might I it
might be helpful for the council to
identify, okay, this is a good example
of like the floor and you know,
>> it definitely would have gotten them No,
no, no. They were
um their most expensive option was
probably a fifth of the minimum loan
amount for a cpacer.
>> Is the minimum 100k?
>> 500 I think.
>> 500.
>> Am I wrong?
>> Uh I'm going to check quick. I
>> have [clears throat] three different
thresholds.
>> I don't think it's that high, but I'm
I'm I'll let you know.
>> anyways, I I think when I was talking to
them about it, um it was going to be
hard to
>> hit it either way. Yeah.
>> Um cuz I think their options were like
50k, 80k, and just over 100k.
and yeah, they they went with a
moderately efficient system, but they
still had to use some fossil fuels.
>> What did they do?
Um, if I recall correctly, they went
with a high efficiency burner and a few
mini splits, but they didn't do the
whole
>> um fully electric setup.
>> I think they had
I I don't think they told me whether or
not they wanted to go with one of their
electric boiler options or not.
It
>> was a while ago.
do we have anything on that we need to
talk about when it comes to the capstone
projects? I assume we're done with CPS
here.
>> Yeah, I think so.
>> I um I met with Aaron Hale today.
>> Cool. Um, so they have an August 1
deadline, but she says it's a soft
deadline. We did the project on the
lighting last year um for the sustain
capstone sustainability projects and
that went well.
>> Did anyone dig up the old ones?
>> Dig up the old what?
>> The old projects we had batted around
>> Um well I know what three of them. One
was the lighting.
>> Yeah, there were five or so on the prior
minutes. It was lighting. It was we had
mentioned uh somewhat tenatively the
data center piece.
>> Oh [laughter] yeah.
>> Uh there was
>> I had submitted one on police EVs.
>> Redoing that study.
>> One on uh polling the community on
finding out what their challenges are.
>> I pull one in on um community geothermal
visibility for community.
>> Yeah. And then I think the other one was
[clears throat] uh carbon
>> embedded embedded carbon.
>> Stevens.
>> So we're welcome to submit them. Um she
gave me a little bit of guidance that
you know I the some of the big
open-ended things are not so attractive
to students who are have a limited
amount of time um to do this. So, if
there are people who would like to
mentor a group of students and have a
project,
um, I can see if we have the writeups
from the previous ones still. Um, and I
can help get those organized and get
those submitted.
I was planning on resubmitting the
community geothermal. Yeah,
if you like yours, you should.
>> Okay. Well, how who will do the
following link to you?
>> Oh, Aaron Hail runs the class and I'll
send you the link to the form.
and so you can fill out the form for
that.
>> What's involved? Is it like an abstract
of the problem or task?
>> It's uh
it's a description of the of the of what
we're after and
>> you want me I can Yeah.
>> And they ask for some uh some link links
to existing resources to get the team
started.
>> Um a list of deliverables that that you
want to get from them.
>> Um and then somebody who can give
a couple hours a week to help guide the
team through the semester.
>> Yeah. So, it's it's like a research
press practice Google doc.
>> Should I send that form out to
individuals? Should I send it to
>> Seems like that's a good one for the
whole DC.
>> Yeah. Um and that due date is August
1st.
soft that I mean that's what they hold
it against us
>> right so if we
>> um if it's not in by then they will
still be considered on a rolling
>> basis
>> if there's interest I mean I could I'm
happy to take a stab at the data center
question I mean I guess the more the
marrier if we you know just for them to
>> she likes collecting them
>> consider you know
>> she said before that sometimes
>> old ideas come up again when she when
certain students come along.
>> Does she keep these as a kind of a
roster of past proposals so that she can
always dig into this and say
>> they usually will
>> I wonder why we need to keep
reubmitting.
>> I think I think she wants to be sure
that we're still interested. So I don't
think that she wants to go back to a
year ago and assume that that's
>> finding the person willing to sponsor
the students is
>> so does that mean someone or the company
who submits the proposal is getting
>> volunteering to
>> or someone someone [clears throat]
you're volunteer.
>> I'm going to put your name on mine.
>> I'll put your name on mine.
>> Good, good, good, good, good. Well, I
mean, I I would back off then because I
I wouldn't have the the expertise or the
capacity to supervise students.
>> I
last discussions of this, I had not
known that was
>> Yeah, it wasn't really that clear last
time.
>> it it's
>> I didn't I don't get that. if you have
any sort of project management
experience is a piece of cake or team
leadership or anything like that. Um
because basically all I was doing was
you know
the professors provide them with a
template of what they should be getting
accomplished what they need to do in the
way of paperwork having a work break you
know having a a a sk a schedule plan
having agenda set up. They are
responsible for man for getting all the
meetings. You need to show up as if
you're you know the supervising manager
who's like yeah you're on track. Um,
yeah, I think you're going the wrong way
here. Try to go this way. Um, give them
a little advice on how to get through
stuff. And just make sure that I mean
they're 202, most of them with um, and
they really have a hard time.
I'm not going to say dealing with time
management, but knowing how long things
take. So making sure that they're
staying on that they're not getting a
little too lax and trying to get ahead
of
>> and and the projects are so diverse that
subject matter expertise is that's what
they look for when partnering with the
community. They only want the project
ideas but they want some subject matter
>> expertise or some experience
>> that they're going to deliver what it is
you want them to deliver.
>> Search your soul.
It's search. [laughter]
>> I know what to do.
>> No, I don't. Yeah.
>> Okay. So, that's that that that's what
we're signing up for.
>> All right. Cool.
>> Got to go back to just a question. I
wanted to verify this before I said it.
So, there's no minimum loan amount on
CPACer. The minimums are set on a
dealbydeal basis with the private
capital providers uh funding the uh
project through the business finance
authority.
>> But um
>> but the financer
in itself has a minimum. I think the
financers have
>> sure have
>> Yeah, there there's there were three
different financers and and they were
like for small projects, middle
projects, and huge projects.
>> That's
>> and the big one was a million dollar
minimum to get if you you know
>> that sounds more like what I'm
remembering.
>> Yeah, but the smaller ones were were
lower.
>> Okay. Like a hundred.
>> I don't remember.
So these are things that we'd be good to
have to
>> what's a couple of orders of magnitude
involve in our our contribution to the
public hearing. [laughter]
>> Okay. Yeah,
I'm sure you guys will iron all that out
um before the public benefit hearing.
>> All right, data centers.
>> This is a nice new phase of my life. um
when I'm just like, "Oh, I don't have to
care about anything that happens in
September." Um
>> well, there's one thing.
>> Yeah, there's one [laughter] thing.
>> It's none of your business.
so, data centers sound like a research
idea. Um, I don't think I don't think we
want to go down the road of talking too
much about um
any type of ordinance recommendation or
anything on data centers yet. I didn't I
didn't see too much information flying
around in email. I I saw I think what
you
>> Yeah, the calculator was good.
>> that was that's interesting.
the conversation
last month um
>> has kind of exposed a few things and you
know the town conversation
>> yes at at the meeting um
because the uh town planner looked at
the zoning and concluded that data
centers as a principal use even as a
ancillary use are not allowed by the
zoning.
Now we could say, "Oh, well that's
that's good." But the problem is is what
people are focusing on are called hypers
scale
um campus data centers. You know the
Facebook, Amazon,
whatever.
But 60% of the processing is done with
enterprise data centers
and there are also colllocation
data centers which I refer to as
warehouse data centers
in an academic community.
um enterprise data centers
>> and collocation data centers I think not
only exist but are critical.
So suddenly I've become concerned that
with all the focus on um
on data centers but really being the
hypers scale that something at the west
edge or somewhere else in town is going
to have a huge data center component
that's not hypers scale but like
enterprise data center and we're going
to say our zoning doesn't allow it. So
where where we thought we were
underregulated, we may be overregulated,
>> right? And so and we've come up with
some examples of things that have just
been phenomenal value to the town and
the university that you'd say, well,
wait a minute, if I looked at the, you
know, if I looked at the table of uses,
they shouldn't be able to do that. And
so, um,
>> if it's not from profit though, it's not
a data center, it's just a server. Oh,
anything happening at the edge fall
because it's the private public thing
does fall under our zoning. We have to
write a a an ordinance just to allow it
right now.
>> So, I mean
>> if if you want to set up a a 20 rack
server farm for a research project,
>> setting up a planned unit. Well, that be
see
>> and and this and this falls into the the
issue of is data center actually a use
or not and and I'm not sure I totally
agree with our town planner. I mean we
don't as an example
>> it's a function
>> it's a function that's attached to the
office we allow offices
>> I mean that was the whole thing with
tech drive
>> the whole the whole point is and that
was the question I raised early on in
the discussion is how many computers
does it take to be a data center
>> right
>> well and and the zoning for tech drive
like we weren't really allowed to ask
was going to go in there
>> so let me provide an analogy in terms of
clarity and also if I have a business
and in my business I have two coffee
break rooms and I brew coffee okay can
somebody say brewing coffee is not an
allowed use nobody's going to do that
and so if somebody has 20 racks of
servers you know it's
>> but that's why I said
>> it's just part part of it but
>> you can tell someone selling coffee
isn't allowed
>> but what happens if out at 121
technology drive. Okay. A company comes
in and says, "For my enterprise, I want
to put a data center in there." Okay.
Are we going to say no?
Because if that was the primary use
of that portion of the building or a
building, then our zoning doesn't allow
that. Okay. So, I'm not as concerned
about saying, you know, um,
you know, the the servers aren't allowed
or things things like that are
reasonable. What I'm concerned about is
everybody jumping on the bandwagon. I'm
concerned about hypers scale data
centers and us being complacent about it
or putting an ordinance in place and all
of a sudden finding a really, really
good business application downtown. you
know, 121 technology, something
associated with the university that that
the zoning would apply. And by the way,
the university really goes out of their
way to try and conform to to either our
our our zoning um or input to it except
for when you get onto the to the core
campus. But so that's why I I just don't
think that we I mean like the hypers
scale project um I think it would be
very interesting to have it looked at.
Um but I think that there's going to be
some some urgency of on looking at data
centers to make sure that we are not
precluding things that everybody goes oh
that's a victory when in fact it's it's
really not good for the town
>> is data center the only term that's
being bandied about I would think there
would be a this is a classification
exercise about saying when you have so
many I don't know how you measure it
CPUs server modules then you become you
graduate from just being something you
can set up to something that is an
enterprise and then eventually you can
grows up to be hyper.
>> Yeah, the term data data center is
inherently ambiguous. So people can do
whatever they want with so so there
there's evolving there's your points
right on there's evolving terminology
okay and the terminology that's being
used is hypers scale which has
characteristics in terms of capacity and
requirements for energy and water. The
next is colllocation data centers.
That's where a company essentially rents
a portion of the capacity or the area
for their their equipment and
enterprise. And so I think our zoning is
going to need to start considering that
granularity. But what I'm finding is in
the market in the industry, it's
generally those those three terms that
are being used to to describe data
centers.
And then there's
>> and there isn't necessarily a clean
break in each group
>> in regards to size
>> and then other people have like a
numbering system a level numbering
system where level five or six is
analogous to hypers scale and and those
are based on megawatts of usage. People
are still arguing about you know what
classification levels to use.
>> So just some context. So I checked with
our energy office at UNH and we
essentially have two data centers. One
is in Morse Hall that runs research
computing and one is at Levit Lane for
for I for technology for IT stuff
>> and neither of those are for profit. So
then you could argue are they even
really data centers or are they
functionally so in
>> server groups and old networking parl.
>> So in terms of energy usage combined
they're under 250 kow. Yeah. Which is
>> which is not it's significant but and I
start wearing until you get
>> but from a from a community from a
zoning uh perspective or is the energy
use intensity something? I mean so
people aren't buying a old student
rental house and filling it with
>> well so hypers scale centers. So this
would not be hypers scale but this would
be if if there were I think one concern
is that there's a pressure on the local
community resources.
>> Yeah. So and that's what they're seeing.
So with hypers scale the energy
requirements can go between generally
650 and a,000 megaww.
>> For one center.
>> Right. Seabbrook produces 1,200 megawatt
>> and our local substation has about 10
megawatts of available capacity
>> out of Madbury.
>> Yeah, the Madbury Lee Durham substation.
>> Oh, I didn't know that. I would have
thought. Wow.
>> It was 18 or 19 total. I think maybe
it's 22. I was just looking at the
hosting capacity map. Anyways, couple
orders of magnitude.
>> How how could they do a data center in
Nottingham then?
>> Right. Uh they're probably proposing to
build their own mini substation and tap
directly into the transmission grid.
>> I thought they squashed that.
>> They sort of did.
>> Did I just
>> It came back.
>> I'm I'm surprised that substation is
only 10 megawatt. But
>> he keeps talking about great.
>> But the the other thing is is that um I
um I found interesting is that these
centers consume up to 8 1.8 8 billion
gallons of water per year.
>> And then people argue about how you
calculate water consumption, whether or
not a closed loop system actually uses
water.
>> I realize that, but even if it's a
closed loop system, there are impacts.
>> I I know it's just going to be another
point of debate. So I I think the hypers
scale is like almost too big to deal
with
>> but I think we need to put things in
place that assure that the collocation
and the enterprise
um data centers if they come to Durham
feel that Durham is a community that
understands it and wants it because
frankly that that's something that
>> until I found out the the guy proposing
the Nottingham site was closely
connected to members of the state
legislature. I wasn't even sure how he
was able to get or propose to get an
alteration of terrain permit at the
state level cuz it's such a big build,
but I guess he found a way around that.
>> He's taking over an existing site that
already has a big building on it.
>> Yeah, I know. But still an alteration of
trainers.
>> The other thing that's happening sort of
in the macro environment and the big
players is that the backend in
infrastructure
>> [clears throat]
>> uh is becoming uh overbuilt, right? And
so Facebook is starting essentially a
cloud computing uh sort of operation
because they are overbuilt in compute.
And so they're backing off of some of
that infrastructure investment because
they're recognizing that there's no I
mean there's no revenue on the front
end, right? And so they've got
>> it'll never get as big as Google or
>> Right. Right. Right. So the the
attraction for developers
may I mean this I mean this is news as
you know in between our last meeting and
this meeting. I mean the attraction for
developers to you know put in that
infrastructure investment where Facebook
says we already have the infrastructure
we'll just sell like the service like
AWS is I mean it's like changing very
fast right open AI is petitioning the
govern government government essentially
to provide subsidies because they are
also overbuilt right so so we should
definitely pay attention to the hypers
scale but I appreciate the balance of so
there's hypers scale and then there's
just we don't want to close off sort of
a sort of a micro scale which I
virtually any techn you know any
technological innovation is going to
involve I mean I mean it's going to
involve servers it's going to involve
you know that kind of thing so we don't
load alone
>> right right so yeah
>> um anyway this is all just to say we
should keep monitoring it
>> and I I started this conversation by
being like I don't think we have much to
say on this subject [laughter]
yeah it's good and it should
that level of concern in detail.
That's that's what we need to be able to
talk authoritatively about before it
>> and whoever brought it up
>> metriculates.
>> Last meeting, shame on you.
>> That was good.
>> That was [laughter] me. Um,
>> do we have time for Durham Day? Yeah, we
should. Um, how are how are people
feeling? Um, I've seen some of your
work. Um,
>> were we supposed to get um the logos and
stuff from someone?
>> So, I I emailed Robin about the logo. I
haven't heard back. Um,
and so the proposal last time, which I
think is good, is sort of eliminate the
header, just have the Durham
>> town logo and then the the new DEC logo.
So hopefully Robin and if anybody has
Todd just email Todd gave it to Todd.
>> Robin gave it to Todd.
>> I'm I'm like 90% sure of that. Yeah.
>> Has any Has anybody has anybody seen the
logo? Did Do they have it on their
computer?
>> Well, we approved we approved a almost
their logo with a couple of revisions
and I haven't seen sort of the final.
>> Was Steve Fels working on it?
>> No, Robin. So
>> it was Robin and Forsy, I think.
>> No, this was past Forsy.
>> Yeah, it was most Robin was the one
dealing with PGs and Vector.
>> Yeah. Yeah, Robin was Yeah. Yeah.
>> Anyway, if maybe Todd I I mean I I can
email Todd to see if he has it, but
>> Yeah. And and just remember as you're
putting these together, um you you've
got to use vector graphics.
>> Yeah. And um if you have something that
is
a different, you know, raster graphics
or something, you know, maybe send it
over to me and I'll I'll get it
converted for you if you if you aren't
sure how to do that.
>> And what's your drop deadad date for
people sending you their final files?
>> So, um
>> two weeks from now.
>> So, I talked with Staples today
I um
I really
think that Friday the 24th of July
if people could now if something comes
in later I don't want to make it sound
like we can't do it and I have them do
it in in house rather than out of house
so the turnaround time is pretty pretty
quickly but what I've found in the past
is there always needs to be some
adjustments or things like like that.
So, if if we could have that as an
objective, that would be great. But if
somebody's a little bit later than that,
just just let me know.
>> Just in case Todd doesn't have the logo,
does anybody have a personal email
address for Robin?
All I had was his town, and I know he's
off council now, so I don't I don't even
know if that email it didn't it didn't
come back to me, but
>> we'll we'll have Karen track them down
or something.
>> Okay. Yeah.
>> Uh I do. It's robin.w
VGT at Gmail.
>> VG.
>> Thanks,
robin.W.V.
V.
>> Just V O GT.
I got it. I got it. I'm good.
>> Okay. Sweet. Awesome. Thanks,
Any
concerns on posters that people have?
>> How many you think we're going to have?
>> How many?
>> I've got one. So, [clears throat] I I
did, by the way, I I did find uh
Charlie's that sort of three level kind
of thing. And so I appreciate
everybody's input from last time moving
away from the pure mini split into
what's the framework the sort of pyramid
for like first insulation and ceiling
and then that and that. So that's
essentially going to be the design at
this poster is just here's what you do
first here's what you do then and then
you know here's how mini splits fit in
mini splits fit into sort of an overall
thing. So anyway, yeah. Um, what for the
template, what's what's the what's the
general size?
>> Uh, we were we've generally done what
2x3's
>> 24 by 36.
did we talk about
um the
the IR camera doing doing a poster on
the IR camera or bringing the IR camera
>> cuz just just letting letting people
know they can check it out at the
library, you know, that that's a good
>> Um, that doesn't necessarily have to be
a 2x3. That can just be a sign next to
the take the camera out of the library.
Put it there.
>> What What would be a cool way to make
that work on a table?
>> Some of the pictures.
>> Oh, the pictures. I I'm I'm almost
thinking like
>> bring the camera there.
>> Well, we'll bring the camera and have an
I like have a house and fill it with
ice. You know what I mean? Or something
like that, you know? I mean, just to
like have actually
house.
>> No. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I mean
>> I mean a cooler with drinks
>> cuz otherwise you're not going to get
just on the I mean you're not going to
get the temper different temper
>> like you know it' be very hands-on
>> the same golf house has been to the
water festival [laughter]
>> it it's um it is from 6:00 to 8:30.
Yeah. I was thinking maybe it being
summer that wouldn't be
uh the most useful, but
>> you put ice in it.
>> Ice ice will do it. Yeah.
>> You know, I've seen demos of them in
like a science museum and
>> I don't know if it's the same thing, but
just in a regular room, you look at
people's faces, you look at their hair
in
>> an air conditioned room,
>> you look at their glasses, the IR
doesn't go through the glass glasses, so
things, you know, I can look at my
camera. Yeah, you can play with it as
long as you want.
>> I' I've got lots of good pictures, too,
that I can
>> see my cold heart. [laughter]
>> Yeah, I can I can I can send you
pictures from my house or anybody else
who's gotten
>> Yeah. You did the good outdoor ones,
right?
>> Yeah, I got some.
>> Yeah, you got great ones. Yeah. Yeah.
Um, so, uh,
yeah, just,
uh, bringing the camera and, you know,
we can probably make it a
>> little 8 and 1 half by 11
wire.
>> so I have two that I was so far. one was
was a a CPC&H map of participating
uh and then the other one was just an
updated version of of my solar panels on
my house which was you know a previous
>> I still have to try and get the
municipal numbers from Durham's library
and stuff.
>> I just wanted to get you know the logos
cuz that was the only thing. So, I have
a budget for about four or five.
>> Four or five.
>> Um, so, and then um I have um
for 8 1/2 by 11s
um that you may want to have on the
table. Um I've I've got the Lexian
stands for those um that I have. So,
those will be available. And I assume
parks and wreck is providing a table.
Uh yeah, they usually they usually
provide one. Um
I I can provide tables. Um
yeah, uh
I think uh it looks like we'll even if I
completely slack off um we'll have more
than four signs. So, I'm I'm willing to
pitch in to make up the gap.
>> I I didn't even think about the 8 and 1
half1 sort of distribution. I think what
I'll do is I'll clean up that 4C
document. And I mean that can
>> that can just be a handout. That was
super useful, very detailed. And that's
another thing, you know, like like
Steve, if if you want your CPCNH1s to be
an 8 and 1 half by 11 handout that
people can take
like with a map
or
Yeah. Um, just pointing out that for all
of these documents that you guys are
working on, if you think it'll work
better
as a handout than a 2ft by 3 foot foot
poster,
like you don't have to limit yourself.
>> The problem in the past, I think, Steve,
sometimes is we we've had is like how
how much room there is.
>> Oh, yeah. I had like two under the table
last year cuz there just wasn't enough
space.
>> And if if you want a like a popup
canopy, I think it's 10 by 10. I've got
one of those. So
>> yeah, I recommend the canopy.
>> But if if we're at five or six large
posters,
that's you know that you know that that
that's doable. But see the thing like
with CPC and age is after Durham day we
can cycle them
>> out into the
>> And those are all my frames by the way.
So we we we get to choose [laughter]
>> we we get to choose what we want there.
>> Yeah. I I I actually still have two of
those slotted wood mounts if you want
them back.
>> so the
deadline is the 24th.
>> Should we have some kind of collection
subcommittee or something? I'm I'm
worried about everything going to you,
Jim, and there needing to be a lot of
work on the 24th or anything. You know,
>> if there's a lot of work, all of a
sudden, I'm going to put out a call for
a subcommittee.
>> Good. Good. Good. Yeah. All right. Good.
You know, I I I think my job is going to
be just to like do some tests, make sure
that graphics, and then, you know, get
them get them up to staples. And
>> do we want to say if needed the two of
>> cuz you're taking on
>> Yeah. Make him do stuff. [laughter]
>> He says he wants to
>> make him regret it. and I'll distribute
the template in as soon as I get that uh
get that logo from either Robin or Tub.
>> Yeah. Um and in this coming month, um
yeah, bother me if you if you need me
for something or if you need something
to happen or if you're looking for
something. Um
do want to help if I can. I'm just going
to be running around like a chicken with
my head cut off. So, I might need some
prompting,
which I do under normal situations
anyway.
So, I'm thinking this CPC&H
doesn't necessarily make sense as a big
poster since we're not really asking for
action from anybody. I mean, we're
already a member. We're not asking
people to join. um you know rate
information is probably what they're
interested in. So two years ago this
might have been relevant. I don't know
that it makes
>> I mean the first one we did totally when
we were trying to get
>> you know the education out about the opt
>> I mean opt out um and encouraging people
not to opt out.
>> It totally made sense as a 2x3 at that
point.
>> Yeah. For sure.
>> Yeah. So I don't know that and I guess
you could talk about whether you want an
example this, you know, the the house
example and the output. This could be an
8 by10 handout, you know, easily
maybe make more sense.
>> And I was thinking about the EV chargers
station.
>> Uh [clears throat] yeah,
>> being able to pass out a map that just
shows [clears throat] where in the town
there are charges.
>> I like that cuz like I was going to ask
about that, too. People are just going
to look at it and be like, "Oh, cool."
And then they'll forget the next time.
>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, do like a map and
like highlight where they are
>> and then we'll hand that out kind of
like a 8 by11 of that.
>> I think that'd be good.
>> He says he has the Lex mount so people
will still see it at the table.
>> One last time, I think. But
>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It gives
>> because you know the the clear ones that
stand up the
>> shirt the not shirt the sheet
>> like if you go to a doctor's office and
they're like remember these uh
flu things.
>> it's just like a stand. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I gotcha.
>> I was worried I do you well on a
different slightly different topic. Do
you have you been involved in the charge
point configuration of the new ones at
the animal rec center?
>> I just saw that it happened.
>> Okay. So, I just there I need to find
who's doing the administration. And it
could be UNH. It could be the town.
>> Yeah. There's some ambiguity in the
rates. They're different. The energy
rate is 40 cents a kilowatt hour. The
town chargers are I think 25 cents a
kilowatt hour. And I have an issue with
with getting into both the solar edge
and the charge point
>> data
>> cuz I already have a personal account.
>> So I don't know if you understand that.
Okay. So I'll follow up with perhaps.
>> It's unclear at those stations if you
have to also pay for parking or if
parking is part of the charge point.
>> The parking it it is the parking is the
fee. Well, because it's a paid lot
through Park Mobile
and right now there is no parking fee.
It's only an energy fee. I've been using
the station.
>> It went from 0 cents per kilowatt hour
to 40 cents per kilowatt hour.
>> Early adopted [laughter]
and there's no breakout of a parking
rate or energy rate or a penalty if you
sit there too long. I I think that from
what I recall that was the idea is that
they would set the energy rate high
enough that it would pay for the parking
space and the energy.
>> That is a university lot. So, it'll be
the university who's going to
>> So, I I just wanted if if they can be
combined into one charge or if they or a
sign needs to be there to say you still
have to pay for parking.
>> Anyway, I think before the semester
starts, I'll work on
>> Yeah, pretty getting that cleared up.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're not
supposed to have to pay for parking on
top of it, but
>> You work for them, not me.
>> Yeah, I do.
>> Okay. I'm the UNH rep. I will uh
>> motion to adjourn.
>> Second. All in favor?
>> The question turns into a motion.
>> Mike Klein would be proud.